|
I think there's still some questions around where the Blood of Eden folks all come from. Because for the most part, Non-House people are probably descended from the space Trillionaires but then you have people like Wake who is described as looking quite "classically" Māori and whose name includes lyrics from the Māori version of the NZ National anthem, so possibly she's a defector? But that could also just be reading a lot into a few lines. I can't remember how many other full BoE names we know. Aside from Wake, (Awake Remembrance of These Valiant Dead Kia Hua Ko Te Pai Snap Back to Reality Oops There Goes Gravity), I can only think of Lieutenant Crown Him with Many Crowns Thy Full Gallant Legions He Found It in Him to Forgive, both of which have a religious component and lyrics from songs important to NZ (Crown's is from Dominion Road), but I don't know how much of that is just because Taz likes writing NZ stuff into the books and how much it's implying something about BoE/non-House culture. Is there any other full BoE name we're shown that I'm forgetting?
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 00:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:37 |
|
|
There are also 180k or so in Australia though I guess you would have to subtract the ones in Melbourne.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
I just like imagining Teacher as Danny Devito.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
cptn_dr posted:But 100% Silas is the whitest motherfucker anyone has ever seen, and that's a hill I'll die on. Naberius too. the eighth house is made up of people entirely from the south island
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 04:27
|
|
|
redleader posted:the eighth house is made up of people entirely from the south island "My name is Silas Octakiserrrrrron, would you like a cheese roll, heretic?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 04:42
|
|
|
cptn_dr posted:"My name is Silas Octakiserrrrrron, would you like a cheese roll, heretic?"  WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 05:00
|
|
|
I had never heard of this food before, and I want it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 05:18
|
|
|
They are so good/bad
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 06:14
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:They are so good/bad shocked there's no marmite in that
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 06:54
|
|
|
My mind reflexively recoiled at the "35 slices of sandwich bread" and I'm not entirely sure why, I eat plenty of crap.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 12:17
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:My mind reflexively recoiled at the "35 slices of sandwich bread" and I'm not entirely sure why, I eat plenty of crap. it just seems like an awfully big batch for what is clearly stoner food
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 14:23
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:No, the houses aren’t specifically Māori. They’re a mix of everything representing the country at least going by the character descriptions as of GtN. Gotta love the Third twins being the whitest motherfuckers in space outside of Silas. I've reread these more times than I want to admit, mostly because hearing it in Moria Quirk's narration is too good - but I don't think there is any indication that the cast is majority Maori. The only canonical Maori are John, Gideon the First, and Pyrrha is merely implied to be local as she was part of the police force. Any of the original 10 were likely but the cryo project was also theoretically a small diverse team of global experts, not a bunch of locals only. In John 5:4 he says he's going to resurrect his loved ones, but also just people in general. Its never implied that he only resurrects the people of New Zealand. The result is that the nine houses should have very broad and diverse ethnic backgrounds. Alecto would be as well as she was artifically created from John. Gideon Nav is half Maori, as red hair is <2% outside of Scotland or Ireland, which implies Wake was (or descendent from the blob of red heads in central asia around northern Kazakstan. Tamsyn muir describes everybody in their relation to the New Zealand ethnical spread because that's her lived experience. I wouldn't take her saying that she imagines 50% of the cast looks Maori as canon that they are. I do generally agree that I want to see more actors from New Zealand and the pacific islands in media though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 21:06
|
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Gideon Nav is half Maori, as red hair is <2% outside of Scotland or Ireland, which implies Wake was (or descendent from the blob of red heads in central asia around northern Kazakstan. I'm not disagreeing with your post on the whole (Well, I do disagree with it but think it's a completely valid reading so live and let live etc), but just to clarify — blood quantum is bullshit and there's no such thing as half Māori. If you whakapapa Māori (AKA trace your tīpuna through your family tree), you are Māori. You can be Māori/Pākehā, Māori/Pasifika, Māori/Scottish, etc etc, but you can't be half Māori. The argument "oh there's no pure maoris left, so why do they get so much special treatment" is a particularly common refrain from our (loud, wealthy, amplified by traditional and social media) racist brigade, which is why I just wanted to point it out to you since presumably you're not from Aotearoa so don't have the context. Also loads of Māori have red hair, lotta burly Scottish whalers came down this way pre-colonisation and were, ah, enthusiastically welcomed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 21:51
|
|
|
There's an interesting line of analysis around colonialism in tlt. John stripped every member of the houses of their cultural history, after all, in service of an explicitly imperialist colonial endeavor. The BoE are holding onto pathetic fragments of history in their names and Messages against his (presumably) complete record. What's missing is any sense of what he's up against, as all we have seen is the houses vs BoE the scrappy rebels: I presume there is also a counter polity that are the descendants of the trillionaires that we haven't encountered yet?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 22:03
|
|
|
Huh interesting. So where do Anthropologists define the line between where it's a cultural group or a ethnic group?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 22:09
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:No, the houses aren’t specifically Māori. They’re a mix of everything representing the country at least going by the character descriptions as of GtN. Gotta love the Third twins being the whitest motherfuckers in space outside of Silas. Thanks all! Just reading the book, and with the blinkered PoV, I had imagined them all (except Jod) as super pasty white people. This is way better. Edit: also while reading around about this, I came on this great post about some of the nuances around this: https://www.tumblr.com/yuck-pfaugh/695706026752753664/note-im-writing-this-only-because-i-havent-seen Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Apr 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 22:19
|
|
|
Jod also had a very personal hand in deciding the composition of the Houses. After all, he killed the solar system and then had to resurrect his subjects himself, starting mostly with his friends. It wouldn't be the slightest bit surprising if the Houses' original demographic composition mainly came from the part of the world he probably cared about the most despite his "save the whole world" ambitions. The Houses' actual population numbers also feel very small, some of that thanks to a skewed perspective due to seeing the nearly-annihilated Ninth House... but even then, Harrow and Gideon's age cohort having been 200 people is still a pretty small number of kids. Yet what we see of the Sixth House recovered late in NtN also sounds really tiny. Combine that with Jod just apparently having people to spare for the revitalization of the Ninth in HtN, I suspect the Houses are not just a very small population overall but also one that he's able and willing to supplement with pre-Resurrection dead people still held in containment after all this time, and depending on how much he's needed to do that he may still have not even yet gone through all the Kiwis he's got on hand. Basically there's nothing neat and "natural" about the Houses' demographics when you have at least one horrible event bottlenecking the population only "resolved" by a particular person's direct intervention. M_Gargantua posted:Huh interesting. So where do Anthropologists define the line between where it's a cultural group or a ethnic group? Last I knew, which admittedly was rather close to 20 years ago when I was getting my degree, the answer is to talk to the people themselves as much as possible and go with what they say, including varying definitions among them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
has anyone considered that with dark skin and red hair gideon os a gerudo
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 00:08
|
|
|
Doctor Sex is explicit in saying the Sixth House population is tiny and shrinking, which makes arranging marriages that aren’t too consanguineous difficult.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 01:08
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:Doctor Sex is explicit in saying the Sixth House population is tiny and shrinking, which makes arranging marriages that aren’t too consanguineous difficult. Camilla and Palamedes are cousins or something, right? Maybe second cousins?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 01:46
|
|
|
Robo Reagan posted:has anyone considered that with dark skin and red hair gideon os a gerudo 
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 01:51
|
|
|
Realistically, it's way too far in the future for any earth ethnicities, languages, or culture to survive at all. Think about how many memes you share with the average Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Culture person. That's about the same 10,000 year time gap. It's long enough for selection pressure in a closed population to plausibly turn Harrow into a translucent cave person, even if her ancestors started off with dark skin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 02:14
|
|
|
Jod remembers. I'd bet Alecto does too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 03:02
|
|
|
Foxfire_ posted:Realistically, it's way too far in the future for any earth ethnicities, languages, or culture to survive at all. Think about how many memes you share with the average Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Culture person. That's about the same 10,000 year time gap. It's long enough for selection pressure in a closed population to plausibly turn Harrow into a translucent cave person, even if her ancestors started off with dark skin. That's pretty much why I brought up the potential for Jod to have lots of pre-Resurrection people on ice to dole out still. Life in general is kind of a gently caress on thanergetic worlds, I imagine even for "resurrected" ones like the Houses. While I said he may still have some Kiwis around to dump into the existing population before even touching the rest of humanity, that either assumes he's done very little of that or else the general population is incredibly small - the current estimated population of NZ is a little over 5 million, and the Resurrection is near enough in the future that it seems like a useful number. Either way, he might be regularly adding lots of Old Earth people back into the gene pool and functionally keeping current ethnicities around way longer than they otherwise would. As far as language and cultural elements, linguistic drift is probably tamped down on by having an old immortal memelord and his immortal cohort around. We know they periodically get personally involved in mortal affairs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 04:27
|
|
|
Yeah, the metaphor of "this culture is a shambling undead corpse, frozen forever at the moment of its death" is not a subtle one, Jod has definitely been keeping the Houses in a state of arrested development for the past myriad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 04:45
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:There's an interesting line of analysis around colonialism in tlt. John stripped every member of the houses of their cultural history, after all, in service of an explicitly imperialist colonial endeavor. The BoE are holding onto pathetic fragments of history in their names and Messages against his (presumably) complete record. Every human who isn't part of the houses is a descendent of the trillionaires. How else did they get into space?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 08:14
|
|
|
Organza Quiz posted:Every human who isn't part of the houses is a descendent of the trillionaires. How else did they get into space? sure - but 10k years is a long time, it's possible they're somehow related to the houses?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 08:28
|
|
|
i find it hard to care too much about māori erasure or whatever from tlt fans, because muir only engages with real-world ethnicities on an aesthetic level. culturally, all the characters are just varieties of space goth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 11:40
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:sure - but 10k years is a long time, it's possible they're somehow related to the houses? Sure but this person is asking when we're going to meet the faction descended from the trillionaires. We already have!
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 12:15
|
|
|
That erasure is a fundamental element of Jod's character to the point that his unthinking concept for a body to house the spirit of the Earth is a loving Barbie doll. I'd need people better versed in the matter to back me up or correct me but the school he mentions early in Nona is one that, to my understanding, has an uncomfortable history of its own in that whole "indigenous cultural erasure" framework. Erasure and the reduction of everything to aesthetics (or less) in the name of [capitalism/revenge/hegemony circle choice] is, if not The Point, then A Point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 12:30
|
|
|
disposablewords posted:That erasure is a fundamental element of Jod's character to the point that his unthinking concept for a body to house the spirit of the Earth is a loving Barbie doll. I'd need people better versed in the matter to back me up or correct me but the school he mentions early in Nona is one that, to my understanding, has an uncomfortable history of its own in that whole "indigenous cultural erasure" framework. Yes. i love it when gideon finally gets to talk about the mithraeum and she's all like, as someone raised in the ninth house, 'ok this is a genuinely uncomfortable number of skulls'
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 12:54
|
|
|
Organza Quiz posted:Sure but this person is asking when we're going to meet the faction descended from the trillionaires. We already have! i meant, who is in charge? it's not BoE, they're a militia as i understand it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 12:55
|
|
|
I got the impression no one was in charge of the whole thing, it's a bunch of planets probably with a variety of leadership structures. One faction in charge of everything is a dictatorship/empire.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
Organza Quiz posted:Sure but this person is asking when we're going to meet the faction descended from the trillionaires. We already have! The thing about the trillionaires is that they weren't going to be trillionaires once they reached habitable planets. Fine, being the heir to Jeff Bezos and Sam Walton got you a seat on the USS Get The gently caress Off the Planet. Still once you land on Earth II (and probably even before that) your wealth ceases to matter. Maybe you brought along your badass Ex-Navy SEAL bodyguard/survivalist. Once you get dirtside again, he's the one who knows how to survive in the wilderness and start building shelters and getting food. So at that point if you want to live, he's the one in charge. And when he tells you to grab a shovel and dig a latrine or you don't get food, you dig that latrine so you can get food. Fast forward a few centuries/millennia and you start getting attacked by weird fuckers who can raise the loving dead against you because they work for some psycho who tried to kill your ancient ancestors.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
Everyone posted:The thing about the trillionaires is that they weren't going to be trillionaires once they reached habitable planets. They didn't, like, isekai into Rust. They had fully-equipped space ships full of, presumably, advanced technology and freeze-dried astronaut rations or whatever. The rich would've still been the most wealthy in terms of material goods, unless the laborers mounted a revolution and took it all by force.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 16:39
|
|
|
exmarx posted:real-world ethnicities Excuse me???? _________/ 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 23:34
|
|
|
Everyone posted:The thing about the trillionaires is that they weren't going to be trillionaires once they reached habitable planets. Uh, wrong, Jeff Bezos, by virtue of being a zillionaire, is divinely appointed by God and you’ll do everything he says because he has the most money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:Uh, wrong, Jeff Bezos, by virtue of being a zillionaire, is divinely appointed by God and you’ll do everything he says because he has the most money. A zillionaire on Earth which got destroyed or something. Also, God just tried to kill his rear end and destroyed Earth in the process.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
Everyone posted:A zillionaire on Earth which got destroyed or something. Also, God just tried to kill his rear end and destroyed Earth in the process. To that point, I am curious how the zillionaires "saw" Jod's attempts to obliterate them. If I remember correctly, he only caught the ones that weren't essentially already going FTL, right? Did those already going warpspeed actually get info about what happened to the ones he wrecked? Or was it more like they got where they were going and the others never arrived, so they just assumed there was some catastrophe or disaster maybe affecting the equipment that put them at warpspeed? Either way, especially given his first retributive swipe was a bit before he began resurrecting poo poo, you gotta imagine the zillionaires AT MOST assumed someone on earth got mad at their deception and tried to stop them but (partially failed) and then succumbed to the same inevitable death as the rest of the population was facing; MAYBE they got some kind of reports about the nukes that were sent out as it was happening, but they definitely had no reason to believe anyone survived. Then
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:37 |
|
|
Is Alecto said to be the last book?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 19:05
|
|
