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Cerekk
Sep 24, 2004

Oh my god, JC!

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Not surprising for a ship used to train US officers.

What is the point here though? Why would you train people on something they will never actually use outside of training, is making naval officers learn to sail just their form of hazing? Definitely seems BWM for a military to maintain a sailing ship in TYOL 2023.

Operating a ship at sea is the best possible education for a career operating ships at sea; the fact that it's a sailing ship has the added benefit of requiring the midshipmen to learn and exercise exceptional levels of teamwork.

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Big Horse
Jan 16, 2013

Scratch Monkey posted:

I’d argue that calling a dashboard light an “emoji” misses the point. Emojis, as their name suggests, are supposed to be for expressing an emotion in text. My check engine light is not expressing emotion.

Sorry, this bothered me enough that I have to point out that emoji comes from "Japanese, for e ‘picture’ + moji ‘letter, character" and is not derived from English.

Borscht
Jun 4, 2011
Emojis certany are running high itt

Heffer
May 1, 2003

In this forum we call them 'emotes' , and you'll drat well like it!

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands

canyoneer posted:

Sometimes beauty is its own reward.



I've been on board and it really is very nice.

Sinbad's Sex Tape
Mar 21, 2004
Stuck in a giant clam

Fourier Series posted:

But do they regret it, or do they stand by their prior beliefs that it was indeed worth it?

They don’t regret all of it but they regret a lot of it. There’s a social component too where they were in this tight knit group of people and you kinda go with the flow for awhile. They still follow each other on socials but don’t really keep in touch and none of them showed up for my cousin’s wedding.

My cousin had a leg up on a lot of them and had money set aside to go to law school, which she did go to. She definitely didn’t have the money to not work the whole time so she ended up working all sorts of odd jobs. So she would work 20 hours one week and then 80 hours the next week. And then she gets her law degree and has to start from the bottom and work 80 hour weeks.

Her advice to me was “working 80 hours in your 20s sucks, but working 80 hours in your 30s sucks so much more, but it’s better than working 80 hours in your 40s”

E: I kinda went on a tangent about being a ski bum. I really just wanted to show an example of someone in their 20s mortgaging some of their future because they think their values or friendships won’t change as they get older.

Sinbad's Sex Tape fucked around with this message at 07:02 on May 14, 2023

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

👰Proč bychom se netěšili🥰když nám Pán Bůh🙌🏻zdraví dá💪?

Big Horse posted:

Sorry, this bothered me enough that I have to point out that emoji comes from "Japanese, for e ‘picture’ + moji ‘letter, character" and is not derived from English.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Heffer posted:

In this forum we call them 'emotes' , and you'll drat well like it!

This is smilie erasure.

marchantia
Nov 5, 2009

WHAT IS THIS
Personally I think never working 80 hr weeks is GWL but maybe that's just me

Rufio
Feb 6, 2003

I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!
I remember they were called emoticons for a brief period before emoji took over. Let's just call everything reactions now since that's what drives engagement.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
My uncle did the ski bum lifestyle for a while, but it was also a lot of working on oil rigs and driving taxis in the off season.

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG
The word emoji would have never caught on if it didn't sound a lot like emoticon.
So even if the Japanese word (that most people don't know is Japanese) doesn't have anything to do with emotion, to most people it does

Halisnacks
Jul 18, 2009

marchantia posted:

Personally I think never working 80 hr weeks is GWL but maybe that's just me

I’ve recently heard the idea espoused by a few people that work/life balance should be looked at over a career/life rather than over, say, a week or month. Basically that your youthful years should be about hustling, getting skills/experience, and establishing yourself, allowing you to kick back (relatively) and spend more time on your relationships, family, and interests as you get older.

… what utter bullshit. Not only is it a narrative to get younger people more comfortable with working extremely antisocial and unhealthy schedules, it fails to mention that working that much means cultivating interests and building relationships in the first place is much less likely to happen. It also drowns out most other value-formation, so one’s identity is likely to just become “I work long and hard”, so they keep working the 80 hour weeks by choice in their 30s/40s.

drk
Jan 16, 2005

Halisnacks posted:

I’ve recently heard the idea espoused by a few people that work/life balance should be looked at over a career/life rather than over, say, a week or month. Basically that your youthful years should be about hustling, getting skills/experience, and establishing yourself, allowing you to kick back (relatively) and spend more time on your relationships, family, and interests as you get older.

… what utter bullshit. Not only is it a narrative to get younger people more comfortable with working extremely antisocial and unhealthy schedules, it fails to mention that working that much means cultivating interests and building relationships in the first place is much less likely to happen. It also drowns out most other value-formation, so one’s identity is likely to just become “I work long and hard”, so they keep working the 80 hour weeks by choice in their 30s/40s.

This 80 hour worker is pretty rare, though. The latest stat from the BLS is "The average workweek for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls was unchanged at 34.4 hours in April". It not clear the statistic accounts for people with multiple jobs, but thats only a few percent of workers anyways.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
its kinda a bet that the hard work will get rewarded. which, to paraphrase my old ceo, is a great bet when you own 20% of the company, a mediocre one if you own 0.5%, and a poo poo one if you don't own anything

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 14, 2023

drk
Jan 16, 2005
these workers have a much healthier attitude on employment

https://twitter.com/CatWorkers/status/1657664039751647233

Halisnacks
Jul 18, 2009

drk posted:

This 80 hour worker is pretty rare, though. The latest stat from the BLS is "The average workweek for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls was unchanged at 34.4 hours in April". It not clear the statistic accounts for people with multiple jobs, but thats only a few percent of workers anyways.

Is the average a mean in this case? 34-35 hours a week sounds ideal, and in contrast to the general impression I have of working in the US (I am not American).

I find it more plausible that the 35 hour average obscures a big contingents of (1) underemployed and (2) overworked people.

Appreciate the 80 hour folks are not that common, but 50+ hours might be, and even that is too much work.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time
I’m sure that’s heavily skewed by part time workers. 50 is pretty common but n my department. I really wish employers were more flexible about 3/4 and 1/2 time positions. F both my wife and I could go down to 3/4 time we could still afford to live but also have some semblance of work/life balance.

drk
Jan 16, 2005
Yes, the average is a mean. They dont report a median or any percentiles in this data.

In terms of underemployed? There are going to be a lot of people who cant work full time but would like to, due to childcare needs or something else. Also, the average in retail is 30.0 hours, which is suspiciously close to the 30 hour/week cutoff where employers are required to offer healthcare benefits (most of these people are likely eligible for significant healthcare subsidies from the government but its still a crappy system). I'm assuming there are a lot of people getting 25-29 hours a week and a handful of supervisory/management people working closer to 40 bringing the average to 30.

Overworked? If by that you mean the wage theft sense like "you need to clock out but stay and finish this work anyways", certainly that happens but I dont think its particularly common. Its a little hazier when its salaried employees who like, might answer an email outside of a normal 9-5 schedule.

edit: link to table with hours worked by industry

drk fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 14, 2023

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

drk posted:

Yes, the average is a mean. They dont report a median or any percentiles in this data.

In terms of underemployed? There are going to be a lot of people who cant work full time but would like to, due to childcare needs or something else. Also, the average in retail is 30.1 hours, which is suspiciously close to the 30 hour/week cutoff where employers are required to offer healthcare benefits (most of these people are likely eligible for significant healthcare subsidies from the government but its still a crappy system). I'm assuming there are a lot of people getting 25-29 hours a week and a handful of supervisory/management people working closer to 40 bringing the average to just above 30.

Anecdotal and out of date etc (neither me or my wife has worked retail in almost 15 years) but yea 100% this is how it worked ca 2008.

A few years earlier when I was in food service I knew a bunch id people working two part time jobs at 20-30 hours each, sometimes to pay for the health care they weren’t getting as a benefit.

That’s pre-Obamacare, though, and for all it’s awful problems is still better than early 00s bullshjt.

Halisnacks
Jul 18, 2009

drk posted:

Overworked? If by that you mean the wage theft sense like "you need to clock out but stay and finish this work anyways", certainly that happens but I dont think its particularly common. Its a little hazier when its salaried employees who like, might answer an email outside of a normal 9-5 schedule.

By overworked I meant the salaried employees who nominally have 9-5 jobs but in practice that’s a complete fiction and they regularly work 10-20 hours more a week than 9-5 would suggest.

Although on reflection I would also use it to mean employees on hourly wages who, even if they are being compensated for every hour, need to put in 50+ hours of week out of economic necessity rather than compulsion from their manager or love of the work.

AreWeDrunkYet
Jul 8, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!

Halisnacks posted:

By overworked I meant the salaried employees who nominally have 9-5 jobs but in practice that’s a complete fiction and they regularly work 10-20 hours more a week than 9-5 would suggest.

Although on reflection I would also use it to mean employees on hourly wages who, even if they are being compensated for every hour, need to put in 50+ hours of week out of economic necessity rather than compulsion from their manager or love of the work.

How do the BLS stats account for salaried workers? If there is no time clock, do they just assume 40 hours? Because that's going to be grossly undercounting for a lot of professions.

I honestly could not tell you how many hours a week I work these days, or whether it's over or under 40 hours. I'll check e-mail to make sure nothing is on fire after waking up, then gently caress around on personal stuff until the first meeting or if someone needs something. The rest of the day is the same deal - if it's a heavy meeting schedule or stuff requires engagement, it might be an 8-9 hour day. Other times if not as much is going on taking a 2-3 hour lunch and/or regular breaks through the day is just fine. And then maybe I sign off at the end of normal working hours, or maybe I'll casually catch up on e-mails or whatever while watching TV.

How do you even begin to measure average working hours when a good chunk of the workforce is fully remote and not doing work demarcated in hourly increments?

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 14, 2023

Fourier Series
Apr 5, 2020

by Hand Knit

Sinbad's Sex Tape posted:

They don’t regret all of it but they regret a lot of it. There’s a social component too where they were in this tight knit group of people and you kinda go with the flow for awhile. They still follow each other on socials but don’t really keep in touch and none of them showed up for my cousin’s wedding.

My cousin had a leg up on a lot of them and had money set aside to go to law school, which she did go to. She definitely didn’t have the money to not work the whole time so she ended up working all sorts of odd jobs. So she would work 20 hours one week and then 80 hours the next week. And then she gets her law degree and has to start from the bottom and work 80 hour weeks.

Her advice to me was “working 80 hours in your 20s sucks, but working 80 hours in your 30s sucks so much more, but it’s better than working 80 hours in your 40s”

E: I kinda went on a tangent about being a ski bum. I really just wanted to show an example of someone in their 20s mortgaging some of their future because they think their values or friendships won’t change as they get older.
Ok, seems reasonable. I think they should get the right to choose misery in their old age though. Freedom of life should include the right to destroy your own life

Thufir
May 19, 2004

"The fucking Mayans were right."
“This news release presents statistics from two monthly surveys. The household survey
measures labor force status, including unemployment, by demographic characteristics.
The establishment survey measures nonfarm employment, hours, and earnings by industry.”

Neco
Mar 13, 2005

listen

therobit posted:

I’m sure that’s heavily skewed by part time workers. 50 is pretty common but n my department. I really wish employers were more flexible about 3/4 and 1/2 time positions. F both my wife and I could go down to 3/4 time we could still afford to live but also have some semblance of work/life balance.

This is very flexible at my employer (software development in Germany). It‘s even possible to reduce your weekly hours for the same wage instead of a raise.

carrionman
Oct 30, 2010

Halisnacks posted:

I’ve recently heard the idea espoused by a few people that work/life balance should be looked at over a career/life rather than over, say, a week or month. Basically that your youthful years should be about hustling, getting skills/experience, and establishing yourself, allowing you to kick back (relatively) and spend more time on your relationships, family, and interests as you get older.

… what utter bullshit. Not only is it a narrative to get younger people more comfortable with working extremely antisocial and unhealthy schedules, it fails to mention that working that much means cultivating interests and building relationships in the first place is much less likely to happen. It also drowns out most other value-formation, so one’s identity is likely to just become “I work long and hard”, so they keep working the 80 hour weeks by choice in their 30s/40s.

Oh hey, it's me.
I qualified in my trade at 21, then proceeded to work evry hour I could until I turned 24. Then I started to pull back and by the time I was 27 I found a job that let me work 36hrs a week max for similar pay.

I'm gonna say it's not always bullshit, but it has to be paying well enough, and you have to be capable of saving, for it to be worthwhile when balanced against how badly it fucks up your social life.
Those three years bought me a house, which now 8 years later is why I'm paying $200 a week in mortgage payments instead of the 4-500 a week that it would cost to rent here. Which also allows my wife to work part time from home and bring up our daughter.
Was it worth destroying my relationship of the time and losing contact with 90% of my friend group? Dunno.

Raskolnikov2089
Nov 3, 2006

Schizzy to the matic
So you can now buy stock in artwork?

https://www.masterworks.com/about/how-it-works

They buy the painting. They sell shares. And then resell the painting years later.

This just seems like a way to lose all of your money when the company goes bankrupt and auctions off the paintings to pay creditors.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

buffalo all day posted:

I’d probably start with summers in Rangoon…luge lessons. In the spring we’d make meat helmets. If they’re insolent, I would place them in a burlap bag and beat them with reeds- pretty standard, really. At the age of twelve they’d receive their first scribe.

Still two pages behind but so far this post didn't get enough love.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
the genius of dr evil

Pipistrelle
Jun 18, 2011

Seems the high horse is taking them all home

Neco posted:

This is very flexible at my employer (software development in Germany). It‘s even possible to reduce your weekly hours for the same wage instead of a raise.

That’s awesome. My husband tried to negotiate that at his last performance review (US company) and they were completely bewildered. They came back and said no but gave him a raise, which is nice but we would have preferred the reduced hours.

Sokani
Jul 20, 2006



Bison

Pipistrelle posted:

That’s awesome. My husband tried to negotiate that at his last performance review (US company) and they were completely bewildered. They came back and said no but gave him a raise, which is nice but we would have preferred the reduced hours.

"We'll pay you more to browse your phone instead of going home"

Firms allocate capital as efficiently as possible.

Democratic Pirate
Feb 17, 2010

No boss, I’m not quiet quitting. I’m just quiet 32’ing

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Cerekk posted:

If you go to sailing school in Connecticut instead, they'll pay you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Eagle_(WIX-327)

I had no idea that that ship was a captured Nazi vessel. That's awesome.

Gaius Marius posted:

Just to be clear. He was only in there for a few months before getting the boot. He got another video on his channel of where he rented after that, and how he promptly built a 45° Climbing wall in it to avoid paying for a gym

This guy had poo poo pretty figured out:

https://www.dailylocal.com/2021/06/06/how-a-delco-man-spent-years-living-secretly-inside-phillys-veterans-stadium/

Switchback
Jul 23, 2001

Sinbad's Sex Tape posted:

They don’t regret all of it but they regret a lot of it. There’s a social component too where they were in this tight knit group of people and you kinda go with the flow for awhile. They still follow each other on socials but don’t really keep in touch and none of them showed up for my cousin’s wedding.

My cousin had a leg up on a lot of them and had money set aside to go to law school, which she did go to. She definitely didn’t have the money to not work the whole time so she ended up working all sorts of odd jobs. So she would work 20 hours one week and then 80 hours the next week. And then she gets her law degree and has to start from the bottom and work 80 hour weeks.

Her advice to me was “working 80 hours in your 20s sucks, but working 80 hours in your 30s sucks so much more, but it’s better than working 80 hours in your 40s”

E: I kinda went on a tangent about being a ski bum. I really just wanted to show an example of someone in their 20s mortgaging some of their future because they think their values or friendships won’t change as they get older.

This is the saddest part. These people you spend countless hours around, through the joy and misery of being broke and young and eager for adventure over luxury, in this unique once-in-a-lifetime circumstance… and they just fade. People you were closer with than your own family. People you experienced real struggle with, who at one point you couldn’t imagine life without them, just ease out of your life until one day they cancel their Facebook and then you can’t get in touch with them anymore. Maybe you find them on LinkedIn one day and you exchange a message about “oh hey! I’ve missed you!” and that’s the last communication you have for another 6 years.

Does that make those experiences less worthwhile? I don’t know. There’s a struggle you can handle when you’re young that becomes unacceptable when you’re older. Putting the time into poo poo working conditions makes for profound gratitude and resilience in regular office work. My worst coworkers never worked a poo poo job in their youth and it left them naive and idealistic.

I guess my point is yes go be a ski bum/rafting guide/rock climbing person, but temper expectations about how much satisfaction it will actually bring you long-term, and also only do it for like a year or two.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

Sometimes I wish I did peace corps after school. I don’t think that’s necessarily BWM because every friend I have who did PC ended up with pretty good careers. You just have to be ok living in some very undeveloped areas for a couple of years.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Bird in a Blender posted:

Sometimes I wish I did peace corps after school. I don’t think that’s necessarily BWM because every friend I have who did PC ended up with pretty good careers. You just have to be ok living in some very undeveloped areas for a couple of years.

I know some peace corps peeps and like anything else the people who did well after used the connections and relationships they made in the PC (or elsewhere) to get to where they are.

The biggest lie that I'm sure we all know is a lie is that the world is a meritocracy. People who go to expensive private schools don't have better outcomes because they got a superior education. It's because they already had or built social networks while in school. Real social networks, not internet bullshit. The peace corps seems to be a really good way for someone without the family head start to build networks like that. So I'd put that down as GWM while being GWL.

grenada
Apr 20, 2013
Relax.

Bird in a Blender posted:

Sometimes I wish I did peace corps after school. I don’t think that’s necessarily BWM because every friend I have who did PC ended up with pretty good careers. You just have to be ok living in some very undeveloped areas for a couple of years.

From my experience the people who get good jobs after PC would have gotten them anyway because they are motivated (and like motronic said have good connections). Career-wise, PC really only helps you get into grad school, federal government, and international development industry jobs.

You can always do PC when you retire. Older volunteers usually did a better job, were more respected by locals, and were happier from what I saw.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





drk posted:

these workers have a much healthier attitude on employment

https://twitter.com/CatWorkers/status/1657664039751647233

Cute human what’s its name?

Annoying customer

Borscht
Jun 4, 2011
PC helped me get into a good grad school but it definitely is not a help for securing a future. Also, it sucks bad.

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skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

This is too astounding not to share

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRKvBnAT/

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