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I've said it before but thread just really needs to knuckle down and play some Trails.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:00
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:45 |
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Everything in these games is just so watered down now. We used to have cool materia, or jobs, or sphere grid systems, and now it's just grind AP/spend AP. There used to be a reason to spend a little time every now and then to just fight some monsters and improve your party, fill out your sphere grid a little or level those materia a little. You know, things like satisfying character progression that makes an RPG a really good RPG. That no longer exists. Remember in FF9 for example, where you'd get a bunch of new weapons and you just finished a major plot point, and it felt good to spend a little time grinding out the new abilities you could learn? That no longer exists in a Final Fantasy game. A lot of people might say good riddance to stuff like that, but it's what I found really fun. Sure Final Fantasy still has RPG elements like God of War and other similar action/RPG hybrids games, but it's no longer really an RPG. The combat and story in 16 are great. Put in a cool RPG progression system like materia or jobs, get rid of the atrocious "world map" level selector in favor of connected, explorable areas and you've got a game that's a contender for best FF ever.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:01
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Mordiceius posted:I also feel like, for better or worse, turn-based RPGs are a niche genre. More people are going to be open to picking up an action game than they are a turn-based RPG. And big budget AAA game development is expensive. From a strictly business sense, it makes sense. Literally one of the most popular game series on the entire planet is a turn based JRPG.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:03
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Weapon system in FF9 sucked rear end
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Jun 24, 2023 23:03
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FF7R is the only game that has made "get abilities from weapons" somewhat ok.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:04
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Books On Tape posted:Everything in these games is just so watered down now. We used to have cool materia, or jobs, or sphere grid systems, and now it's just grind AP/spend AP. There used to be a reason to spend a little time every now and then to just fight some monsters and improve your party, fill out your sphere grid a little or level those materia a little. You know, things like satisfying character progression that makes an RPG a really good RPG. That no longer exists. Remember in FF9 for example, where you'd get a bunch of new weapons and you just finished a major plot point, and it felt good to spend a little time grinding out the new abilities you could learn? That no longer exists in a Final Fantasy game. A lot of people might say good riddance to stuff like that, but it's what I found really fun.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:04
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Literally one of the most popular game series on the entire planet is a turn based JRPG. I feel like I'm walking into a trap here, but which series are you talking about?
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Jun 24, 2023 23:05
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pokemon
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Jun 24, 2023 23:05
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Books On Tape posted:now it's just grind AP/spend AP. Books On Tape posted:it felt good to spend a little time grinding out the new abilities you could learn? That no longer exists in a Final Fantasy game. 
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Jun 24, 2023 23:05
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Mordiceius posted:I feel like I'm walking into a trap here, but which series are you talking about? Gotta be Dragon Quest e: lol how did I forget Pokemon
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Jun 24, 2023 23:05
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Was thinking about the extremely stupid smear stuff about YoshiP being an ableist monster and one of the first things I see in the options are closed captioning for deaf/hard of hearing people lol. I guess actual accessibility options don't matter when making those claims I guess.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:05
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Runa posted:pokemon Oh doh. Yeah. Pokemon. Interestingly enough - I've never liked Pokemon games. I've always found them so tremendously boring. Somehow, they completely passed me when I was a kid and then I tried playing one about ten years ago? I think it Black/White? IDK. It was so loving slow and boring.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:06
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Mordiceius posted:I also feel like, for better or worse, turn-based RPGs are a niche genre. More people are going to be open to picking up an action game than they are a turn-based RPG. And big budget AAA game development is expensive. From a strictly business sense, it makes sense. Now thats including royal and vanilla together but still
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Jun 24, 2023 23:07
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if there aren’t fifty toggles to make pickups a variety of luminescent colors then game journalists get the chilblains
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Jun 24, 2023 23:07
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Endorph posted:Persona 5 sold as many copies as the last of us 2 It also includes the spin off games. And P5 had a multiplat release and a four year head start on TLOU2.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:08
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Sure but those still arent the numbers of a 'niche genre'
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Jun 24, 2023 23:09
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Mordiceius posted:Oh doh. Yeah. Pokemon. Interestingly enough - I've never liked Pokemon games. I've always found them so tremendously boring. At some point (it might be the generation right after Black and White lol) the series massively increased the exp gain so that you basically never have to do random encounters ever except for catching pokemon.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:11
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also i realize people are going to be mad at me for mentioning gacha and i get its a very different market but like, honkai star rail is doing insane numbers. theres clearly an appetite for this stuff. its not like these are modern first person adventure games.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:12
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yeah it was a dumb statement now that i've thought more about it and poked around the catalogues more, mea culpa
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Jun 24, 2023 23:13
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It's a subtle difference, but it's there. You can't tell me the AP system of 16 is as deep or offers as much variety of builds as a materia or job system. It's incredibly basic in comparison and in how it provides a sense of character progression.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:15
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Endorph posted:Sure but those still arent the numbers of a 'niche genre' I look forward to the Persona 5 live action series on HBO. IDK how to describe it but I feel like the perception around Persona will never break out beyond "niche game" in the west. Maybe it goes back to that "jrpg is a slur" argument. I feel like this feeds right back into why YoshiP and the team kept hammering "No no no! This game is like Game of Thrones!!!" idk. I'm stoned as hell right now so I don't even know what kinda argument I'm even trying to make anymore. FFXVI is good. RPGs are good. Action games are good. Just because FFXVI isn't a turn-based RPG doesn't mean good ones don't exist.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:16
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Endorph posted:also i realize people are going to be mad at me for mentioning gacha and i get its a very different market but like, honkai star rail is doing insane numbers. theres clearly an appetite for this stuff. its not like these are modern first person adventure games. I mean turn based is kind of perfect for gotcha and I think it’s extremely funny a lot of them fight so hard to be real time
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Jun 24, 2023 23:16
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the only ff progression system id say is that good is ff5's and ff10 expert sphere grid
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Jun 24, 2023 23:16
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Books On Tape posted:Everything in these games is just so watered down now. We used to have cool materia, or jobs, or sphere grid systems, and now it's just grind AP/spend AP. There used to be a reason to spend a little time every now and then to just fight some monsters and improve your party, fill out your sphere grid a little or level those materia a little. You know, things like satisfying character progression that makes an RPG a really good RPG. That no longer exists. Remember in FF9 for example, where you'd get a bunch of new weapons and you just finished a major plot point, and it felt good to spend a little time grinding out the new abilities you could learn? That no longer exists in a Final Fantasy game. A lot of people might say good riddance to stuff like that, but it's what I found really fun. Grinding this poo poo fuckin sucked and I hated it. The fuckin HOURS 12 year old me spent in ff6 grinding espers. The hours spent grinding ap in ff9, tedious! Hours spent grinding away for limit breaks in 7, not ideal! Not gonna say that ff16 couldn't do with a bit more to muck around with in terms of character progression but I have no idea why you'd pine for the poo poo days of godforsaken ff9 in particular.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:17
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Mordiceius posted:IDK how to describe it but I feel like the perception around Persona will never break out beyond "niche game" in the west. Maybe it goes back to that "jrpg is a slur" argument. also persona 5 is literally in smash brothers and is something most people who play games are aware of i mean its not call of duty or anything but its hardly 'niche', its as popular as final fantasy is. the only real difference is persona 5 is the breakout smash hit so there's less ingrained legacy/nostalgia compared to ff which has been a big name in the west for 20 years. but the sales numbers and awareness are similar.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:18
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Books On Tape posted:Everything in these games is just so watered down now. We used to have cool materia, or jobs, or sphere grid systems, and now it's just grind AP/spend AP. You mean like it was in...ff4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10 and 11 and 12. Like the materia passive stuff is just...effects on equipment now. The only difference is what they're calling it.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:19
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I'm enjoying FF16 alot but I admit the RPG aspects feel kind of useless or vestigial at best. Gear is really straightforward to the degree that's boring. Maybe they just didn't want it to feel like FF7R, or maybe that thought never crossed their mind, but I find myself just charging forward to the next story beat because I don't feel the need to explore or fight non-mandatory fights. Usually I'd run all around looking for secrets or loot, but that's not a thing here. I mostly just find potions or crafting mats. I was so impressed by SOP's job system (yeah I know it's a different dev) and 7R's combat that maybe it's clouding my opinion a bit. Variety amongst the titles doesn't hurt I guess. Like I said, though, I'm still enjoying the experience. Cid's great
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Jun 24, 2023 23:19
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Endorph posted:the only ff progression system id say is that good is ff5's and ff10 expert sphere grid FFV's is so good people run annual charity randomizer marathons for it and have for years now I'm still impressed whenever I sit back and think about it
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Jun 24, 2023 23:19
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ive had multiple irl conversations with complete strangers where persona was brought up basically unprompted outside of the fact that i said i played video games
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Jun 24, 2023 23:20
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The time has come for a Final Fantasy RTS game.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:23
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Books On Tape posted:It's a subtle difference, but it's there. You can't tell me the AP system of 16 is as deep or offers as much variety of builds as a materia or job system. It's incredibly basic in comparison and in how it provides a sense of character progression. And yet only one FF has materia. Only a handful have job systems. I mean, gently caress, half of the FF games have any "choice" when it comes to character progression. You mentioned FF9 - that game... unless I'm completely misremembering, that game didn't have any choice for what characters could learn. Every character had a pre-set (if, initially hidden) list of abilities they could learn. You don't get to pick and choose what characters have. There were no "builds" or anything like that. Unlocking new gear only unlocked the ability to grind monsters for the AP needed to unlock pre-destined abilities.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:23
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Runa posted:FFV's is so good people run annual charity randomizer marathons for it and have for years now it's got strong StS energy where you're trying to make do with a build (re: party composition) that can vary from "laughably easy" to "4 berserkers," and i always found the problem solving people have to go through engaging i actually think it'd make a good standalone RPG concept and it's kinda surprising there hasn't been something in that vein out yet
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Jun 24, 2023 23:24
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OhFunny posted:The time has come for a Final Fantasy RTS game. ngl i would play the gently caress out of that.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:25
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Vermain posted:it's got strong StS energy where you're trying to make do with a build (re: party composition) that can vary from "laughably easy" to "4 berserkers," and i always found the problem solving people have to go through engaging There is a game called Timebreaker Chronicles that kinds tries it
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Jun 24, 2023 23:26
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someone in some comments somewhere was like 'imagine if the next marvel ultimate alliance game was an rts instead of a beat em up' and i was like 'that sounds awesome'
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Jun 24, 2023 23:26
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OhFunny posted:The time has come for a Final Fantasy RTS game. Yes please, let me send my squadron of chocobos against the moogle legion
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Jun 24, 2023 23:27
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Mordiceius posted:And yet only one FF has materia. Only a handful have job systems. I mean, gently caress, half of the FF games have any "choice" when it comes to character progression. Even materia is just AP grinding for better spells with the passive ones being things you'd get from equipment in earlier FFs. FF8 has the AP grind for new passives and abilities, 9 is equipment for both and no real builds other than smaller passives (Which again, still exist in modern FFs), 10 is AP grind for stats and passives as a resource farming crafting segment (poo poo every video game has now), 12 it's almost all buying poo poo at stores and unlocking the ability to use it via grind. 13 it's AP grinding for stats and abilities and equipment for passives. It's all the same poo poo as 16 has.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:27
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I'm not far enough into 16 to make statements about depth of builds or anything but it looks like there'll be about 40 eikonic abilities to unlock (on top of 10ish basic skills to master) and that you can create your own builds of 9 at a time (with three being tied to the eikons you choose and the others being fully customisable when you've mastered them). That seems like plenty of choice and progression to me for what is primarily an action game rather than a turn based RPG. Idk.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:28
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I also would like a ff visual novel that let me ship ff1 white mage and black belt. Original nes sprite, theyre both male. This is important
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Jun 24, 2023 23:28
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:45 |
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Endorph posted:that isnt really what yoshi-p was doing or what he meant when he said 'people were weird about JRPGs' I was being a bit reductive and maybe I'm getting unnecessarily bent out of shape, but it drives me crazy how reactive people can be about jrpgs/anime-adjacent things. In 2023, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but I mean gently caress, we still have people on these forums that will derisively say poo poo like "Gross. That poo poo looks anime" without that having any actual meaning.
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Jun 24, 2023 23:31
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