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The navigators get put in their special spice gas/liquid tanks so their farts provide more than enough propulsion to cruise the whole galaxy infinite times over so they don't even have to think about where they're going or whatever but since it's done by space folding to non-prescient people it's like they just instantly warped you to your destination.
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Jun 15, 2023 03:42
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Pretty sure the predecessors to the guild were also probably using the other shittier prescience drugs before they got on the spice train just like the Bene Gesserit reputedly were.
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Jun 15, 2023 04:14
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reignonyourparade posted:Pretty sure the predecessors to the guild were also probably using the other shittier prescience drugs before they got on the spice train just like the Bene Gesserit reputedly were. I thought they just used computers until those were banned. But maybe there's a bit of space history between the butlerian jihad and the discovery of dune?
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Jun 15, 2023 06:24
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Neo Rasa posted:Leto surmises briefly that even the Baron's weight and his hedonistic nature is something he enthusiastically plays up because it makes a lot of the nother nobles not take him seriously which works in his favor. That's an ooold trick. Helps that the setting specifically has ridiculously advanced technology in the biological areas, despite or perhaps specifically because of the Jihad, and some adaptations play up the Harkonnens specifically having among the best. The Baron probably wouldn't have to be morbidly obese if he didn't want to be, regardless of his lifestyle. He gleefully wallows in his own crapulence and lords it over everyone else, culminating in his confrontation with Leto- which Yueh knew for a certainty that he would absolutely do. Shanty posted:I thought they just used computers until those were banned. But maybe there's a bit of space history between the butlerian jihad and the discovery of dune? Pretty sure there's the semi-official timeline (at least from an in-universe perspective) that probably says this outright. Spice isn't the only way to navigate FTL travel but it's by far the best anyone's discovered, its effects are almost suspiciously ideal. I find it interesting that for a sci-fi setting, the means of FTL travel aren't discussed but implied to be not too difficult or expensive to necessarily use once you know how, but it's the navigation which requires the plot device special resource du jour. I suppose it tracks with the mixing of metaphors; Spice clearly functions as oil does in a modern setting, with Arrakis very much styled after Middle East petro states (with Paul's story being basically a mix of the Prophet Muhammed and Lawrence of Arabia) but also being 'spice' makes a clear analogy to the Age of Sail and importance of the spice trade. It's also a handy writer's trick to have the main plot device driving the story and overall material motivations of almost every character and faction involved also be the main source of most of the superhuman abilities and traits in the story. And really, it just makes sense that a substance which reliably gives you superpowers is going to be extremely valuable and sought after in any context, and its uses are going to be well documented and exploited.
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Jun 15, 2023 06:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That's an ooold trick. Helps that the setting specifically has ridiculously advanced technology in the biological areas, despite or perhaps specifically because of the Jihad, and some adaptations play up the Harkonnens specifically having among the best. The Baron probably wouldn't have to be morbidly obese if he didn't want to be, regardless of his lifestyle. He gleefully wallows in his own crapulence and lords it over everyone else, culminating in his confrontation with Leto- which Yueh knew for a certainty that he would absolutely do. The great part is that Rabban plays up his dumb brute act in the same way that the Baron plays up his obese hedonist act. Yet the Baron never suspects that Rabban is a lot smarter than he lets on and falls for it hook, line and sinker. The Baron is not as clever as he thinks he is.
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Jun 15, 2023 11:33
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SixFigureSandwich posted:The great part is that Rabban plays up his dumb brute act in the same way that the Baron plays up his obese hedonist act. Yet the Baron never suspects that Rabban is a lot smarter than he lets on and falls for it hook, line and sinker. The Baron is not as clever as he thinks he is. Wait what? Is there any indication rabban is not an idiot?
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Jun 15, 2023 11:42
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sebmojo posted:Wait what? Is there any indication rabban is not an idiot? heh as a bit where he's like 'yo, there's way more fremen here than we think, we shouldn't think of them as weak, maybe we could make an army out of them' and everyone else basically tells him to shut up and get back to work
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Jun 15, 2023 13:57
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sebmojo posted:Wait what? Is there any indication rabban is not an idiot? I think it happens after the Baron has the conversation with the Sardaukar soldier? Just the Baron and Rabban speak briefly and Rabban asks him something along the lines of if the Emperor is aware of the specific way in which the Sardaukar used and some other stuff and the Baron internally is like "That was a penetrating question, I may be underestimating this guy" kind of stuff. Plus he's the only one on the antagonist side to be like "Hey the Fremen are strong as gently caress and there's a lot of them maybe we could go about this some other way" and no one listens. I think Rabban being an idiot is played up more in the adaptations because you have just a couple of hours to get across that Feyd is the Chosen One for the Baron and Rabban is being set up to fail to prop him up. But in the book while I believe the Baron refers to him as being pretty stupid, he seems more interested in direct military confrontation with the problems on Dune than the Baron's plans, but he didn't seem particularly more or less out of touch than the other non-main main characters overall to me. IIRC he blows up a worm with some ridiculous heavy artillery that he requested and that was seen as an expensive extravagance/waste of time and is mentioned as like a throwaway thing. But also IIRC it's mentioned that their use of older style artillery helps them defeat the Atreides. His main idiocy seems to be doing what the Baron wants, but similar to how the Atreides take on stewardship of Dune I'm not sure if Rabban had much of a choice there.
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Jun 15, 2023 14:10
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Horizon Burning posted:heh as a bit where he's like 'yo, there's way more fremen here than we think, we shouldn't think of them as weak, maybe we could make an army out of them' and everyone else basically tells him to shut up and get back to work He also asks questions about Yueh that make the Baron briefly think he might have underestimated him. Dune posted:Strength poured into the Baron's voice. "I suborned a doctor of the Suk School! The Inner School! You e: beaten. Also, while it isn't explicitly called out like above, his tactical questions are hardly stupid. Dune posted:"The cannons you brought," Rabban said. "Could I--" His dialogue doesn't make him sound stupid at all. Everyone just treats him that way. SimonChris fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 14:10
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Seems rather a contrast to how Leto actually respects and listens to his lieutenants, and how he's attracted some of the best talent in the galaxy as a result. Having skilled people on your side doesn't help much if you don't listen to them or give them the chance to actually use those skills. Been mentioned before, a big part of how the plans within plans blow up is multiple players ignoring the human element and that people aren't one-dimensional tools. Heh, machine thinking.
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Jun 15, 2023 15:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Seems rather a contrast to how Leto actually respects and listens to his lieutenants, and how he's attracted some of the best talent in the galaxy as a result. Having skilled people on your side doesn't help much if you don't listen to them or give them the chance to actually use those skills. Been mentioned before, a big part of how the plans within plans blow up is multiple players ignoring the human element and that people aren't one-dimensional tools. Heh, machine thinking. Yeah I don't think the book is subtle about Leto having a real human connection with his folks. I mean it's "subtle" in-story to the characters because of machine thinking like you say, like the part where Paul shows that guy the ring and he helps him and Jessica escape and Jessica is like "woah such leadership how to these Atreides men do it O_o such mystery". Like humanity is so starved for any actual, like, humanity from people. Someone like Kynes who's semi-turned away from that bullshit sees it in the Duke immediately. You see it in the brief interactions we get between Leto/Paul and the Baron/Feyd too. Leto goes out of his way to try to be a father to this kid, how successful he is is of course debatable. I know Feyd isn't technically the Baron's son but he only ever treats him like a potential tool to advance their house. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 15:43
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Given Dune was written as an anthesis to/inversion of Foundation, I feel there's probably a very deliberate irony that when robots are banned, humans start treating other humans- and themselves- as effectively robots, made to serve exactly one purpose and do as they're programmed. Also there's a pretty classic golden child/scapegoat dynamic with Feyd and Rabban, complete with the typical motivation of having 'roles' for each of them and irritation at best when they step outside them, and the golden child folding under any real pressure.
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Jun 15, 2023 15:53
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I'm reading dune for the first time
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Jun 15, 2023 15:57
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I find it interesting that for a sci-fi setting, the means of FTL travel aren't discussed but implied to be not too difficult or expensive to necessarily use once you know how, but it's the navigation which requires the plot device special resource du jour. I suppose it tracks with the mixing of metaphors; Spice clearly functions as oil does in a modern setting, with Arrakis very much styled after Middle East petro states (with Paul's story being basically a mix of the Prophet Muhammed and Lawrence of Arabia) but also being 'spice' makes a clear analogy to the Age of Sail and importance of the spice trade. Additionally, the mind expanding and life extending nature of spice is a product of the psychedelia optimism of the 60s.
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Jun 15, 2023 15:59
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's also a handy writer's trick to have the main plot device driving the story and overall material motivations of almost every character and faction involved also be the main source of most of the superhuman abilities and traits in the story. And really, it just makes sense that a substance which reliably gives you superpowers is going to be extremely valuable and sought after in any context, and its uses are going to be well documented and exploited. It also works with the oil metaphor simply because having access to oil and its derivatives does give you superpowers relative to others. Those superpowers might be bound up in planes, ships, and tanks, but they're still powers other people don't have unless they too have access to your super drug. We don't really think of our technology in that way, but then again artificially induced superpowers would be a kind of technology too. Ghost Leviathan posted:Seems rather a contrast to how Leto actually respects and listens to his lieutenants, and how he's attracted some of the best talent in the galaxy as a result. Having skilled people on your side doesn't help much if you don't listen to them or give them the chance to actually use those skills. Been mentioned before, a big part of how the plans within plans blow up is multiple players ignoring the human element and that people aren't one-dimensional tools. Heh, machine thinking. Most of his lieutenants all have very personal grievances against the Harkonnens, too. Leto (and his father) loved, intentionally or not, picking up his prize strays from people the Baron abuses and casts off. If blows up in his face with Yueh, but imagine a different set of circumstances where Leto was even able to turn Rabban. There's too much bad blood between Rabban and Gurney specifically (and others generally) for it to last long, but that could have been a coup. Perhaps literally.
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Jun 15, 2023 16:07
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MacheteZombie posted:I'm reading dune for the first time gently caress yeah
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Jun 15, 2023 16:23
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MacheteZombie posted:I'm reading dune for the first time you now walk the golden path
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Jun 15, 2023 17:24
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SimonChris posted:He also asks questions about Yueh that make the Baron briefly think he might have underestimated him. a-h-h-h-h-h-h ty thread i see what you mean plans within plans
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Jun 15, 2023 23:28
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All of it pretty much plays into the deliberate Flash Gordon or heroic fantasy vibe with the Baron as the dastardly villain and Leto the noble ruler with a round table of champions.
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Jun 16, 2023 05:13
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hell yeah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YUzQa_1RCE
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Jun 29, 2023 17:21
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It's gunna rule
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Jun 29, 2023 17:30
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 That is a good fuckin trailer
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Jun 29, 2023 18:39
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Emperor Walken wasn't what I was expecting but I'm really digging it.
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Jun 29, 2023 19:16
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Daduzi posted:Emperor Walken wasn't what I was expecting but I'm really digging it. he doesn't look bad but I don't think he ever could have compared to this: 
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Jun 29, 2023 20:18
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Jun 29, 2023 21:28
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"Your father. Was a weak man. But he’d be damned if any Harkonnens were gonna put their greasy pale hands on his boy’s birthright. So he hid that ducal signet ring in the one place he knew he could hide something. His rear end "
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Jun 29, 2023 21:44
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Holy poo poo it looks good. What's that hovering chrome ball in the final shot?
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Jun 29, 2023 21:46
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That was neat. Looking forward to the 2 hour alt shift x breakdown.
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Jun 29, 2023 21:50
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spanky the dolphin posted:Holy poo poo it looks good. What's that hovering chrome ball in the final shot? Something Imperial I'll bet
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Jun 29, 2023 21:52
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holy moley that trailer owned
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Jun 29, 2023 21:59
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spanky the dolphin posted:Holy poo poo it looks good. What's that hovering chrome ball in the final shot? It looks just like the ship the Emperor's envoy arrives in at the beginning of Dune 1
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Jun 29, 2023 22:03
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I'm going to say it. I'm disappointed Christopher Walken looks like Christopher Walken. Corrino IV should be like Space Liberace. I want headdresses and weird flowing garments and a train.
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Jun 29, 2023 22:07
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DUNC 2: The Ball is Back!
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Jun 29, 2023 22:10
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lmao
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Jun 29, 2023 22:54
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I never really got why Paul couldn't stop the Jihad--wasn't the whole reason the Guild had to listen to him because he could blow up the Spice? Also that no one would flip out and fire their nukes, or just start lasgunning everything; there couldn't be that many Fremen and how are they going to galactic genocide with knives and dart guns?
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Jun 29, 2023 23:03
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Among other reasons, because the collective unconscious of humanity demanded the "wild mixing of genes" that would result from unbridled war and genocide. You gotta bear in mind that Herbert was a right-wing crank.
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Jun 29, 2023 23:12
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so is Alia gonna be in this movie or what
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Jun 29, 2023 23:16
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Daduzi posted:Emperor Walken wasn't what I was expecting but I'm really digging it. I always gotta remember how restrained everything is in this iteration. Big! Very big! But austere. So I expect Walken to be in a moo-moo and sandals.
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Jun 29, 2023 23:19
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:so is Alia gonna be in this movie or what Yeah
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Jun 29, 2023 23:23
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Aurubin posted:I always gotta remember how restrained everything is in this iteration. Big! Very big! But austere. So I expect Walken to be in a moo-moo and sandals. i kind of like that they're showing him to be just some guy but i do hope he gets at least one insane over the top costume
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Jun 29, 2023 23:33
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