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Quick someone with photoshop skills merge the Titan Sub with the God-Emperor.
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Jul 2, 2023 01:24
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:dunc 3 is greenlit but they're bringing in jj abrams to direct I can wave a flashlight at the camera and will charge half as much.
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Jul 2, 2023 01:32
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you're laughing now but we're gonna need a guy who's good with camera flare when paul wanders the desert blind and alone and contemplates his life choices for the entire last hour of the film
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Jul 2, 2023 03:43
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Part 2 is meant to be the conclusion to the first book, right?
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Jul 3, 2023 05:41
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I said come in! posted:Part 2 is meant to be the conclusion to the first book, right? Yes, but Book 2 (Dune Messiah) is only about half as long as Dune itself, so it will work quite well as Movie 3.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:53
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It’s not remotely some kind of satisfying trilogy ending though. You have the Idaho/Hayt thing, which will be great, but the rest is uhhhh…. a bit minor key.
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Jul 3, 2023 07:48
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Minor key rules though.
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Jul 3, 2023 08:14
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They need to get at least as far as Children of Dune. I want to see how they visualize the whole business with the sandtrouts.
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Jul 3, 2023 09:35
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I'm curious if they will even introduce those. I mean they're not really necessary for the story if you're only planning to go as far as Messiah, right?
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Jul 3, 2023 09:37
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Arglebargle III posted:Surely it would have occurred to the spice workers that they're sitting at the galactic choke point. Remember that "spice is necessary for space travel" is something Paul puts together through prescience/knowledge of the Fremen spice sales/knowledge of the deal with the Guild, the "oh Guild Navigators just float around in spice tanks and chat to people while looking like big fish" started in Messiah. At the start of Dune nobody except the guild thinks that Arrakis is important for anything other than Space Cocaine. MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 11:52
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Kvantum posted:Yes, but Book 2 (Dune Messiah) is only about half as long as Dune itself, so it will work quite well as Movie 3.
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Jul 3, 2023 11:57
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Remember that "spice is necessary for space travel" is something Paul puts together through prescience/knowledge of the Fremen spice sales/knowledge of the deal with the Guild, the "oh Guild Navigators just float around in spice tanks and chat to people while looking like big fish" started in Messiah. If nobody knew how important spice was then why the hell was it treated as something so important? I thought spice was like real world oil where everyone knew that oil = power in many ways. Why would people risk their entire lives and families just to mine space drugs if all they thought it was used for was to get high? That makes no sense.
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Jul 3, 2023 12:16
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Do we get to the sex ninja ladies in Messiah asking for a friend.
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Jul 3, 2023 12:20
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Boris Galerkin posted:If nobody knew how important spice was then why the hell was it treated as something so important? I thought spice was like real world oil where everyone knew that oil = power in many ways. Why would people risk their entire lives and families just to mine space drugs if all they thought it was used for was to get high? That makes no sense.
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Jul 3, 2023 12:40
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Do we get to the sex ninja ladies in Messiah asking for a friend. No
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Jul 3, 2023 12:43
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Remember that "spice is necessary for space travel" is something Paul puts together through prescience/knowledge of the Fremen spice sales/knowledge of the deal with the Guild, the "oh Guild Navigators just float around in spice tanks and chat to people while looking like big fish" started in Messiah. In the movie at least, the little educational film Paul watches before going to Arrakis says that spice is necessary for space travel, so in the movie version of the universe everybody apparently knows that already
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Jul 3, 2023 14:06
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Martman posted:I think everyone knew that it could extend your lifespan drastically, since the emperor was openly super old. So people just figured it was an extremely valuable rich people thing rather than being the backbone of the entire space economy And frankly that alone would make it an astoundingly valuable commodity, let alone its other effects. That it's an absolutely required resource for galactic society to function rather than just a luxury is what's kept secret. Especially since given discovery of Spice presumably predates the Butlerian Jihad, it was probably used far more exclusively for its geriatric qualities before it became the only means of FTL navigation.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:07
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Either I missed the part about spice extending life or it’s just not mentioned in the movie.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:09
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Boris Galerkin posted:Either I missed the part about spice extending life or it’s just not mentioned in the movie. It’s in the movie, in the same sentence as the bit about it being necessary for space travel. Edit: Well I just checked it and not exactly. They just say it "preserves life and gives enormous health benefits." Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 14:17
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Good thing no one does crimes for regular old non-space cocaine. Herbert really had such an imagination.
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Jul 3, 2023 19:25
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The women who are so good at sex they have magic powers is such a 70s idea lol
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Jul 3, 2023 19:33
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Arglebargle III posted:The women who are so good at sex they have magic powers is such a 70s idea lol Anyone amused by the more whack-rear end poo poo in the Dune novels owes it to themself to read Herbert's earlier book Godmakers, which has most the story beats of Dune but instead of a faux-literary veneer is presented as just the most golly-gee! chrome and ray guns style pulp scifi you can imagine.
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Jul 3, 2023 20:33
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lolquote:Colin Greenland reviewed The Godmakers for Imagine magazine, and stated that "For all his ever-expanding cosmic perspective, Herbert still writes characters who look and sound as if they'd been cut off the backs of cornflake packets."[1]
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Jul 3, 2023 20:39
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Reading Godmakers was so freaking weird. You can see the shape of so many things to come in Dune, just in this bizarre funhouse-mirror sort of way where the tone is completely off while still pretending to be almost as serious. Some of it comes from the book originally being a bunch of short stories, so each one hits on a particular idea or worldbuilding element taken mostly separately from all the rest, while Dune made them into a more cohesive whole.
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Jul 3, 2023 20:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Given the Fremen filtration technology is drat good and miniaturised for the stillsuits, I imagine they have similar principles at work to harvest spice. When they live out in the desert closer to worm territory and can more confidently navigate it, they can probably set up smaller operations- not as powerful as a harvester, but a lot more of them, and all the time. Especially since there can be enough spice in the air itself to give Paul a contact high, which I think was in the book as well? I have always envisioned the harvesters as the hot, dusty equivalent of crab fishing. You might die out there but if you make it home your cut is a years wages for ordinary shmucks.
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Jul 4, 2023 04:02
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Xealot posted:
Frank Herbert is also waaaay more right wing fashy than snyder (even including 300, which I do think is at best irresponsibly fashy for the WoT era) The stuff about gay people in God Emperor is genuinely some of the worst stuff I've read in a fiction book in terms of mask off author bigotry, it's at least lovecraft level. And he's writing it around when his son had just come out. The dude was a gross prick From what I've heard he just goes further off the deep end from there too Also, people overstate how much the white saviour narrative is upended in dune. book 2-4 makes it quite clear that Paul's mission is distorted out of his control by the superstitious Muslims (theyr confirmed to be sunni descendsants iirc) who genocide everyone because they are religious fundamentalists, he becomes a self sacrificing christ figure to try to stop it by book 4 eventually his grandson becomes an omniscient homophobic worm god who rules the Muslims through superstitious awe So the subsequent books make it seem like it was just riling up the superstitious natives which was the bad thing. Basically dune 1 Herbert restrains himself so the weird stuff is only slightly visible (Jewish witches controlling humanity, Hard Places = Hard Men) and the plot seems better cause there's less of it Oh man I just remembered how Paul's sister turns out
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Jul 4, 2023 16:26
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Communist Thoughts posted:Frank Herbert is also waaaay more right wing fashy than snyder (even including 300, which I do think is at best irresponsibly fashy for the WoT era) So many wrong thoughts in one post, wow! Calling Herbet a fascist is pretty lol
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Jul 4, 2023 17:03
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Duncan is the homophobic one and Leto basically laughs at him for being outdated and uptight as I recall. Leto does then expound on strange and stupid ideas about homosexuality in a military context I think? But when I read it I did not get the impression that we were supposed to take that at face value. Leto's point of view is seriously compromised by being a butthurt incel worm Sorry I've kind of forgotten how we handle talking about later book plot points re spoilers but Leto in God Emperor seems... pretty well known?
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Jul 4, 2023 21:04
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heheh.quote:
from the Dosadi Experiment. Frank had some Ideas.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:18
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Martman posted:Duncan is the homophobic one and Leto basically laughs at him for being outdated and uptight as I recall. Leto does then expound on strange and stupid ideas about homosexuality in a military context I think? But when I read it I did not get the impression that we were supposed to take that at face value. Leto's point of view is seriously compromised by being a butthurt incel worm Theyr both different kinds of homophobes, as well as that dude hating lesbians theres also a scene where Leto explains (maybe via Moneo) that his army is all female because male armies attack the civilian population because of homosexual behaviour within them, which he likens to homosexual bullying in all male schools Theres no reason for either scene to be there except so we can hear some of Frank's Homophobic Theorys, it really stands out, even amongst other scifi from the time
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Jul 4, 2023 21:53
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no...another sci fi dude was a crank?
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Jul 4, 2023 22:39
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uber_stoat posted:heheh. Yeah, fedaykin more like fe "gay" kin (tbf he never says this but I'm p sure that is what he was thinking)
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Jul 5, 2023 00:32
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Tankbuster posted:no...another sci fi dude was a crank? Herbert being a crank is nothing new. His beliefs weren't as insane as Card's, and he probably wasn't as vile as Clark is alleged to be, but still a conservative crank with bad views. He also denied Iron Maiden rights to reference Dune in a song and did so in a particularly grumpy old man way.
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Jul 5, 2023 01:27
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uber_stoat posted:heheh. "Have you heard the legend of the gayboy berserkers and smegma crazies? It's not a story the Jedi would tell you."
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Jul 5, 2023 03:07
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DarkSol posted:The Baron is a pederast who drugs his victims to have his way with them... and for all we know, Vince isn't. So, I'd say that the Barron is worse because of that. Maybe he's not a pederast himself, but he is generally acknowledged to be a rapist https://people.com/sports/vince-mcmahon-settles-with-ex-wwe-referee-who-accused-him-of-rape/ And has repeatedly enabled child molesters https://prowrestling.net/site/2021/02/13/tom-cole-dead-at-age-50-key-accuser-in-the-wwe-wwf-ring-boy-scandal/
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Jul 5, 2023 04:11
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uber_stoat posted:from the Dosadi Experiment. Frank had some Ideas. As far as I can remember, homosexuality is never depicted positively in Dune. Herbertb didn't envision a society where people could just be openly gay and live like everyone else, and probably considered it a sign of civilizational decay. Perestroika posted:Depends some on the particulars of spice harvesting, I'd think. It's clearly very dangerous work, but it's unclear whether it's particularly difficult/skilled work. If not, it'd be quite feasible to find scabs whenever necessary. And after all, it's still (space) feudalism. If the workers were to launch any sort of industrial action, it'd be considered perfectly acceptable for the current rulers of the place to retaliate with pretty much arbitrary levels of brutality. And they do have a uniquely powerful lever with being able to control the Arrakeens' access to water. I think kalel has the right of it--Herbert was extremely cynical and undemocratic in his assessment of humanity, and believed that any political system would become dominated by an aristocracy. The best we can hope for is that it's a Nietzschean aristocracy of people who are actually superior. Herbert could imagine genetically perfected computer-brain vagina wizards, but not communism.
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Jul 5, 2023 15:20
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Herbert is terrified of a superhuman aristocracy. When superhumans take over, you get the Fremen jihad and 3000 years of brutal repression under a worm god. He's not so keen on aristocracy in general. He doesn't paint the status quo at the beginning of Dune in any kind of positive light. He's definitely a conservative dude who thinks all systems are fallible because humans are fallible, but painting him as a fascist misses that central to the Dune series is a critique the demagoguery and hero myths that underpin any fascist ideology. Like the Fremen don't distort Paul's mission. Paul's mission is a selfish attempt to wrest control of the galaxy from the people who betrayed his family. It's simple dynastic conflict and revenge that he sells to the Fremen by cloaking it in an old myth and wrapping that myth around their ecological project. If anything, Paul distorts the Fremen project. They were relatively content with suborning the Guild and subverting the emperor's ecologist to create their secret gardens out in the desert when the Atreides show up asking about an alliance. Paul doesn't walk into the desert because he's ashamed of the jihad. He walks into the desert because he can't bring himself to take the next step on the Golden Path and become the worm god that Leto II eventually becomes.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:46
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Doesn't Paul walk into the desert because doing so will prevent the Fremen from collapsing in a civil war around whether a blind man can rule them?
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Jul 5, 2023 18:57
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Paul's also been wrestling from the moment of his first oracular vision with his own moral culpability in what he, as the Mahdi and Kwisatz Haderach, enables and encourages. He spends a huge chunk of the first book wanting to find a possible future that doesn't end in either the Fremen jihad or his own death. Or both. The "better," or at least less destructive, future may have only been possible if he just died, and he's terrified of that as well as wanting his revenge. He never gets away from the costs of his empire and what pursuing the Golden Path would actually mean, and just checks out because he can't handle it anymore, especially without Chani at his side.
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Jul 5, 2023 19:02
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yeah i always saw Dune as kind of a deconstruction of "chosen one" fantasy stories, basically saying "if everyone starts saying that some young kid is 'the chosen one,' be very afraid."
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Jul 5, 2023 19:12
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