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He's a terrible person but a good character. Just like so many others in this series. It's so full of great awful characters.
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Jul 12, 2023 00:10
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disposablewords posted:He's a terrible person but a good character. Just like so many others in this series. It's so full of great awful characters. He's a great character. I'd never have thought I'd want to root for an actual God-character in a novel. I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes.
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Jul 12, 2023 00:49
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Sometimes things happen and it's nobody's fault 
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Jul 12, 2023 01:14
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hey you can't make an omelet without cracking a few planets
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Jul 12, 2023 01:19
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M_Gargantua posted:I think you're missing the planet for the forest. It's designed to reform people who annoy Mercymorn with their antics. She was fine with John killing the solar system, but eating peanuts (even discreetly) during an Admiralty meeting? That's beyond the pale!
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Jul 12, 2023 01:39
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So, Harrow spoiler, right: I don't want to alarm anyone but a third of Commander Wake's appears to be an Eminem lyric. Also she is very angry about necromancy indeed, blames what I'm going to guess was all the people who died before the Resurrection on God and also impregnated herself with Gideon the Ninth and is apparently close to Gideon the First and now I don't know what.
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Jul 12, 2023 01:42
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Wakes name was supposedly taken from a recording of a radio scanning through the channels. Also there's like 18 individual things you can read into the name and the references and Charlie map them to things that happen in the three books so far.
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Jul 12, 2023 01:45
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Dawgstar posted:So, Harrow spoiler, right: I don't want to alarm anyone but a third of Commander Wake's appears to be an Eminem lyric. The explanations for her full name (I got this off a fan wiki but I've seen other people lay out the same things) are: "John's nickname for Commander Wake is "Wake Me Up Inside," which references a popular real-world song "Bring Me to Life" by the band Evanescence. The first part of Wake's name, "Awake Remembrance of These Valiant Dead" comes from a piece of dialogue by the Bishop of Ely in Act I, Sc 2 of the Shakespeare play Henry V. The middle of Wake's name, "Kia Hua Ko Te Pai" means "Let goodness flourish" and is a Te Reo line from Aotearoa (New Zealand)'s national anthem, "E Ihowā Atua". The ending of Wake's name, "Snap Back to Reality Oops There Goes Gravity," is a line from real-world rapper Eminem's song "Lose Yourself" from 2002."
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Jul 12, 2023 01:48
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That actually brings up something I was never clear on: Everything SPoiler Who is Wake? Aside from Gideon's mom, I mean. Who is she to BoE, to Jod, to G1deon? Did I miss something (one of the drawbacks of consuming books as audiobooks before bed) or is this a "wait for Alecto" thing?
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Jul 12, 2023 01:49
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Nona and parts of harrow makes it clear that Wake is such a charismatic leader of BoE that she ubites all the squabbling cells under one purpose. That purpose is informed by Cytherea's Intel about RBs, which is how they came up with Herald bullets, and by Mercymourn's plan to open the tomb and release Alecto so they can be done with this tourturous immortal farce. Mercy gave her Jod clones which all died as well as some viable reproductive swimmers. The plan fell apart and Wake used the last few months of her life to gestate Gideon in an attempt to murder a baby at the door and literally blow it open as even only 50% phenotype is enough to bust a bloodward if masked by the thanergy bloom of a proximate death. Wake fails, and suffocates. She's angry enough to attach herself to her own skeleton, and then her daughters sword, and grows some what attached to her budding family in the same way she was sentimental about Pash.
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Jul 12, 2023 01:58
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Which comes back to my reread theories since they're fresh again. Not once does anyone see the moon at Canaan house. So I'm still convinced that the 9th house installation is on Luna, except now I will amend that Job obviously moved the moon into a very remote orbit. Pluto remains thematic and Ceres remains viable but too small. Cytherea had a way to summon an RB back to Sol, she stayed ot as an offhand comment. And it's implied that it was one of Nonas tantrums that summoned Verun. And more! We will see what comes true.
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Jul 12, 2023 02:08
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disposablewords posted:John wasn't wrong.
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Jul 12, 2023 03:02
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It's still funny to me that I imagined the Lyctors as grown-up version of the kids from Homestuck when I first read Harrow. Solely because of John.
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Jul 12, 2023 03:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:It's still funny to me that I imagined the Lyctors as grown-up version of the kids from Homestuck when I first read Harrow. Solely because of John. Funny because yeah they probably kinda are?
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Jul 12, 2023 03:25
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Gideon's aviators are a clear metaxtual reference to Dave Strider's, and quite possibly even canonically the same glasses. Given that John is clearly a Dave, and Ianthe is certainly a Vriska-type, in this essay I will
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Jul 12, 2023 03:28
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The locked tomb podcast did an entire interview with some Homestuck luminary, the lore and references are wild.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:02
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Mad Hamish posted:I can't bring myself to hate John the way so many people seem to. Like, ok, sure, he killed an entire solar system, but it's not as though he was really in his right mind when he did it. The Earth gave him the power of necromancy with no training, preparation, or explanation. She can't put the tool into his hands without telling him how to use it and then get angry when he fucks it up. It's all very biblical, you know. What would happen if someone like Jesus actually appeared in the 21st century, able to cure cancer with a touch. How would our governments and media treat this person? What would you do if you had the powers of god, but the whole world feared and hated you? The Christian god punished humanity's misdeeds with a flood and started over. John is a horrible, evil person, and also a very normal, very human one.
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Jul 12, 2023 04:33
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silvergoose posted:The locked tomb podcast did an entire interview with some Homestuck luminary, the lore and references are wild. Episode 29 if anyone is interested https://www.lockedtombpod.com/ They also did an interview with Moira Quirk! Speaking of podcasts, I really hope One Flesh, One End picks up again.
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Jul 12, 2023 05:00
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FuturePastNow posted:It's all very biblical, you know. What would happen if someone like Jesus actually appeared in the 21st century, able to cure cancer with a touch. How would our governments and media treat this person? What would you do if you had the powers of god, but the whole world feared and hated you? The Christian god punished humanity's misdeeds with a flood and started over. This id partly covered by Dostoyevsky's the Grand Inquisitor.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:53
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Happy Landfill posted:Episode 29 if anyone is interested Me too, me too.  Yeah the interview with Moira Quirk is absolutely hilarious, highly recommend.
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Jul 12, 2023 11:33
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FuturePastNow posted:It's all very biblical, you know. What would happen if someone like Jesus actually appeared in the 21st century, able to cure cancer with a touch. How would our governments and media treat this person? What would you do if you had the powers of god, but the whole world feared and hated you? The Christian god punished humanity's misdeeds with a flood and started over. Yes, exactly. You could also make a comparison to Captain Ahab, I think, seeing how all-consuming his hatred of the people who had destroyed the biosphere was.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:21
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The horror in Harrow's head at Mercy calling God something as human as John was so good.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:42
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silvergoose posted:The horror in Harrow's head at Mercy calling God something as human as John was so good. Just finished rereading Harrow and the entire dynamic between the Lyctors and John was outstandingly well-written. "I didn't get to where I am by being able to die, you know?" mdemone fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 15:47
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FuturePastNow posted:It's all very biblical, you know. What would happen if someone like Jesus actually appeared in the 21st century, able to cure cancer with a touch. How would our governments and media treat this person? What would you do if you had the powers of god, but the whole world feared and hated you? The Christian god punished humanity's misdeeds with a flood and started over. He's a horrible, evil person because he's a very normal, human one. John's story is essentially Bruce Almighty redone as horror (or at least horror-comedy). What happens when you give a regular human person the power of God? Really bad, awful things because a normal human person isn't going to have the Godlike wisdom or Godlike compassion to go with that Godlike power.
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Jul 12, 2023 17:49
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silvergoose posted:The horror in Harrow's head at Mercy calling God something as human as John was so good. Or any time he would offer Harrow tea and a cookie.
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Jul 12, 2023 20:04
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Dawgstar posted:Or any time he would offer Harrow tea and a cookie. He's so likable. He didn't mean for all this to happen, obviously, but now here we are. Edit: I don't see him as horrible or evil, as a person. Disclaimer, I am just now starting Nona.
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Jul 12, 2023 20:09
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Everyone posted:He's a horrible, evil person because he's a very normal, human one. John's story is essentially Bruce Almighty redone as horror (or at least horror-comedy). What happens when you give a regular human person the power of God? Really bad, awful things because a normal human person isn't going to have the Godlike wisdom or Godlike compassion to go with that Godlike power. Also what if the fuckers that doomed Earth to extinction hired God to save the human species* and then fired him in favor of a different plan to save the human species**. * They weren't actually paying him to save the human species. ** The alternate plan to save the human species also didn't save the human species.
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Jul 12, 2023 20:09
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pseudorandom name posted:Also what if the fuckers that doomed Earth to extinction hired God to save the human species* and then fired him in favor of a different plan to save the human species**. *** While also destroying his life's work.
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Jul 12, 2023 20:41
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Everyone posted:He's a horrible, evil person because he's a very normal, human one. John's story is essentially Bruce Almighty redone as horror (or at least horror-comedy). What happens when you give a regular human person the power of God? Really bad, awful things because a normal human person isn't going to have the Godlike wisdom or Godlike compassion to go with that Godlike power. Not to defend the literal genocide of humanity, or many horrible things that happened afterward, but it's also a question of "what if you gave a normal human the power of God, then betrayed them and pushed them past the breaking point?" and I think the result isn't surprising at all.
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Jul 12, 2023 21:01
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issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the genocidal maniac John...
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Jul 12, 2023 21:03
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mdemone posted:He's so likable. He didn't mean for all this to happen, obviously, but now here we are. Oh yeah, that's the trick. He's so sorry about all the things he did. He wishes they were different. "Could we maybe stop eating planets, then?" "No."
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Jul 12, 2023 21:10
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Then we get into the billions of souls he's just keeping in his back pocket for a rainy day, gee wonder if keeping souls in cold storage for millennia does something bad to them and that's why the Ninth is infested with hellworms after getting a fresh batch of resurrecteds.
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Jul 12, 2023 21:13
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Robo Reagan posted:issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the genocidal maniac John... I think a better dril post is the candles one
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Jul 12, 2023 21:13
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sebmojo posted:Oh yeah, that's the trick. He's so sorry about all the things he did. He wishes they were different. Well I subscribe to voluntary extinction theory so that might be informing my choice here
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Jul 12, 2023 21:19
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Also there are enough inconsistencies in his tale in Nona that you do wonder if he's dressing up how useful his cryonics project actually was, how good his intentions were, or even how deliberate the plan to evacuate Elon Musk with all his Lambos really was
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Jul 12, 2023 22:30
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The idea of putting ten billion people into ships is completely absurd but idk if that's an author not understanding numbers thing or John being John.
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Jul 12, 2023 22:33
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Why not both? Even if you only saved a few million more it would be better than what they actually got. Even if you saved a few million more *with* a 20% failure rate!
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Jul 12, 2023 22:38
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M_Gargantua posted:Which comes back to my reread theories since they're fresh again. Eh, I'm almost certain she meant to summon the River Demons. They got Colum without any discernable involvement from Cytherea at all and it's ground zero for the Great Sin, and they'd love to get their eye-tongues on John Gaius.
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Jul 12, 2023 22:50
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sebmojo posted:I think a better dril post is the candles one (accidentaly kills every living being in the solar system with 100% accuracy rate) alright. thats fine. heres what i think happened, [1/82]
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Jul 12, 2023 22:58
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Tau Wedel posted:(accidentaly kills every living being in the solar system with 100% accuracy rate) alright. thats fine. heres what i think happened, [1/82] 
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Jul 12, 2023 23:06
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