|
ImpAtom posted:There's actually a slightly more involved version in the Gold Saucer. this makes sense but also I don't know why they made the sub mission so easy when they still make you do a full length snowboard level like 10 minutes after you see aerith get stabbed mournfully shredding the slopes for like 5 minutes
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 06:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:37 |
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:They're literally derived from one another in a way that makes sense for them to be similar and they literally both show you the things they define and then explain them in text mid cutscene dialogue about them. You got your Gods, God Slaves and Failed Slaves. that's it. Like there's no way they could explain them more plainly Yeah, I understood it when I played it. You can understand it if you're paying attention, the information is there. But it's still bad even if you understand it. It's just a clunky way of setting up the opening of a story. If you're going to drop the audience into the middle of the action, you better be able to get them to care about it and at least sort of get what's going on pretty quick. FF13 does not do this. You're in the middle of a conflict, but you don't know what it's about or who's involved in it. You get the basic explanation of what L'cie, Fal'cie, and Cie'th mean, but not how that system functions in practice or why it's causing a major conflict, or how Cocoon's government is structured or the historical background required to get why everyone's so willing to allow an entire city to be exterminated. This all matters, but it's too involved for the game to actually deliver it to the player in the middle of the extended action sequence that is the opening. If you want to know it, you're expected to go look it up in the datalog or wait several hours until after the opening sequence is over. As you say, it is stated some hours later how Cocoon actually works. But that's not really supposed to be a reveal for the player, it's just a thing that all of the characters know but haven't mentioned. Your choices are to either repeatedly interrupt the action by going and reading stuff, or let the action flow properly but not actually get why it's happening. This is bad. This is not a good way of hooking people with the opening of a story.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 06:59
|
|
|
Yeah, it’s not that XIII is hard to understand, it’s that they throw a bunch of information and jargon at you before you have any reason to give a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 07:12
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Hey hey! They may have taken away the incredibly well place and paced and heavily designed fights but they did give you the shittiest monster catching/training system in a square enix RPG! It wasn't the worst, you could put hats on things and you basically solved it like 5 hours in by capturing a silver chocobo. So it was bad but at least you didn't have to really engage with it outside of a 10 second google search for best monster party member. It is less bad than lords of verminion!
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 08:20
|
|
|
FF13's battle system sucks because its one hidden mechanic - getting a free ATB refill when you switch paradigms - has a 12 second cooldown and not a 13 second cooldown
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 08:21
|
|
|
Luckily they made a good version of 13, they called it 13-2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:06
|
|
|
I wonder which plot people dunk on more, VIII vs XIII vs XV. (This is not me saying any of their plots are bad, just that those three seem to be the plots people most commonly dunk on.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:10
|
|
|
Give those games a second chance. FF Pixel remake round two, make all of them except for XI and XIV pixelated
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:14
|
|
|
I mean they aren’t really that similar, 8 falls apart in the second half while 13 more or less never really gets going. Though both have extremely tedious hardcore defenders
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:14
|
|
|
Some of that probably comes from having tedious haters imo Since I finished 16 I do want to give 13 an actual earnest try, but I haven't felt like putting forth the effort to mod the PC release. It is kinda wild that the most accessible versions of the 13 trilogy are playing the 360 versions on Xbox series or the poor PC ports.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:33
|
|
|
the last bit of 8 is kind of a clusterfuck but also the whole thing was already just about weird emotional vibes more than the actual plot so it still works
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:34
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:Give those games a second chance. Actually make single player pixel remakes of XI and XIV too
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:34
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLbaki_Tc5s the joke pixel video they did for ff14 ages back was great
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:36
|
|
|
FFXIII had a really neat opening and setup for the story and then kind of trailed off for me but hey, literal disaster lesbians.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 10:55
|
|
|
Endorph posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLbaki_Tc5s Also this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09qlU6ZwkIE This one, however, legitimately needs to be real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZJxYLoun7g
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 11:04
|
|
|
8's story gets weird by the end but it's not awful. I know some people love 8's weird systems but in general I think it would've been remembered a lot more fondly if its stat system wasn't inscrutable to the average 10 year old. At very least, let me junction to all the basic stats right from the get go, and you can remove a bunch of tutorial text with "rather than equipping armor, we equip magic directly to our stats". 15's story is fine by itself, just weirdly rushed and it basically only hangs together because the Bros do a good job voice acting things. 13's story just doesn't really work, the pacing is all over the place, most of the characters aren't likable and side characters and villains like Jihl just shuffle in and out. Total lack of cohesion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 11:04
|
|
|
13s story just got way too weird and up it’s own rear end that it made it hard to connect with in any way. I stand by the naming conventions being confusing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 11:30
|
|
|
it’s a concept driven story that has no grounding because all its characters cease to exist as anything more than interchangeable CGI dolls by the halfway point. that’s its biggest failing e: the pacing might also be a factor. I can’t think of many other rpg’s that start at Maximum like that and never let up Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jul 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 11:33
|
|
|
i'll admit that I had a bad pre-conception of FF13 before playing it, including completely mistaking its dev process for a different game, but I ended up liking it. the complaints about it are valid, with the pacing complaint being the most relevant to me. constantly breaking the party up did have a straining effect on the overall plot, though I can see how it allowed the player to explore each character's motivations more in-depth. I ended up liking Sazh a lot; the scenes in Nautilus to my recollection did a good job of painting his extreme guilt over the loss of his son. he's an angry man lashing out looking for someone to blame, including himself, before ultimately realizing that the rear end in a top hat gods that caused everything are at fault. there's more to it than that, but broad strokes that was his motivation and it worked for me. I would have liked the side stuff to come earlier than it did. also would have liked more of it, maybe some optional side dungeons, but that wouldn't really fit what the game was doing. probably wouldn't have been possible with the dev issues, either. overall, game is Fine. probably a low-tier FF, but I still maintain that all of the mainline FFs are good in their own way. haven't played the sequels yet, but plan to do so pretty soon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 12:32
|
|
|
I think with XV (and XIII-2) they overcorrected in regards to complaints that XIII's sidequesting was too late in the story, so they made it available very early. Which is good but it kind of wrecks the pacing in the (already kinda nebulous) plot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 13:15
|
|
|
Yeah it's a weird tightrope walk. FF5 and FF6 have fun optional dungeons and content, most of which comes late in the game. 12 has it sprinkled throughout. 13 is conveying a stark sense of urgency, so maybe wandering around poking into caves and ruins for treasure and/or big monsters would have been too hard to integrate. I dunno, it's not a huge complaint, just something I would have preferred. edit: i mean other than the cie'th stone stuff in Gran Pulse TheHoosier fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Jul 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 13:26
|
|
|
Eh, there are stretches in the Sazh/Vanille sections where there isn't any immediate urgency other than 'Sazh wants to go find his son'. You could reasonably fit in some side stuff in Sunleth Waterscape or Nautilus.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 13:53
|
|
|
Endorph posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLbaki_Tc5s I love the Dragoon who ate poo poo in the beginning getting the incredibly rare mount that has like a 3% chance of even showing up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Eh, there are stretches in the Sazh/Vanille sections where there isn't any immediate urgency other than 'Sazh wants to go find his son'. You could reasonably fit in some side stuff in Sunleth Waterscape or Nautilus. Nautilus has this whole bit where Sahz and Vanille are just walking around, and the only objective is to find the chocobos. That’s definitely a place where they could’ve injected some more side/optional things since the first half of Nautilus feels like it’s supposed to be the big breather.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:42
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:drat imagine if a deus ex machina came out of nowhere in the finale of a Final fantasy game. Like if the prayers of your friends suddenly manifested power beyond reason and gave you the strength to face the final boss. Or the last dregs of power you could muster shifted the imbalance of the world back into alignment. Or the ghosts of your friends that have died showed up together in the finale to stun the boss long enough for you to finish the job. i'm sorry ffxiii sucks but all these words relating the very final fantasy things it does to other final fantasies won't make it suck less i have as little clue what's going on in ffxv as i did through most of ffxiii but one major, extremely important difference is that all these people i'm hanging out with actually like each other and relate to each other in reasonable ways and despite the world falling to the evil empire none of it feels rushed
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:47
|
|
|
I am just grateful we got Final Fantasy 16 and its drat near perfect as a game and a final fantasy title.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:48
|
|
|
So the next Final Fantasy game should be slower paced and spend more time with people but also rush through to the next cool moments so you're not wasting time talking to unimportant people and should have more exploration but also not waste your time with unimportant stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:52
|
|
|
I think people see Lightning hating Snow and Hope hating Snow and think that the entire party hates each other. Sazh/Vanille get along great for most of their trip (until, y'know, drama, and then that gets sorta resolved). Hope looks up to Lightning. Lightning eventually grows to respect Snow and Hope stops using him as a hate sink. Fang and Vanille are very good friends.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:53
|
|
|
And also you should win things by playing
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:53
|
|
|
Sorry, I lost Tetra Master and I won because it meant I no longer had to play Tetra Master.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:So the next Final Fantasy game should be slower paced and spend more time with people but also rush through to the next cool moments so you're not wasting time talking to unimportant people and should have more exploration but also not waste your time with unimportant stuff. wouldn't you know it, if you try to combine everything everyone's said into one thing it sounds completely incoherent
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
I wish Hope had died and we got his mom joining us instead. But Final Fantasy hates parents.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:00
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I wish Hope had died and we got his mom joining us instead. But Final Fantasy hates parents. Lightning says she's tough, what more do you want???
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
parasyte posted:wouldn't you know it, if you try to combine everything everyone's said into one thing it sounds completely incoherent I mean that is the issue with this discussion. "Just do (x)" runs into the problem of them doing X and people hating it and pointing out how they shouldn't have.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
Arist posted:Lightning says she's tough, what more do you want??? An FF game with a playable group of only tough moms.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:02
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I wish Hope had died and we got his mom joining us instead. But Final Fantasy hates parents. Y'know, this made me think about how rare it is that we even see both of a Final Fantasy protagonist's parents. Off the top of my head it's only Clive and Terra (we see both of her parents in a flashback, even if they're both dead before the story begins).
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:03
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Y'know, this made me think about how rare it is that we even see both of a Final Fantasy protagonist's parents. Off the top of my head it's only Clive and Terra (we see both of her parents in a flashback, even if they're both dead before the story begins). Off the top of my head and assuming you don't just mean 'main character' Ceodore Zack Reeve/Cait Sith Sephiroth Squall Rinoa Rosa ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jul 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I wish Hope had died and we got his mom joining us instead. But Final Fantasy hates parents. Kinda hosed We could have both and Nora could be the embarrassing mom
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:11
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Off the top of my head and assuming you don't just mean 'main character' Oh yeah I meant main character specifically. But that's right, I forgot about Squall! I also wasn't thinking about spinoffs but yeah Ceodore and Zack would count in that case, too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:37 |
|
|
Harrow posted:Oh yeah I meant main character specifically. If that was the case you can also add Bartz (mom and dad both appear in flashbacks) Cecil and Golbez (flashback in 4DS only) Tidus Lann and Reynn ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jul 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2023 17:14
|
|