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Bogus Adventure posted:Apparently, Greta explained what was behind the joke: I gotta say I appreciate the approach of just being like “whhaaattttt I don’t even know what this joke means lol how’d that get in there?” since it’s guaranteed to infuriate anyone who cares
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Jul 23, 2023 00:22
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Bogus Adventure posted:Apparently, Greta explained what was behind the joke: 
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Jul 23, 2023 00:23
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The ZSJL joke is inoffensive. The real stinker of a joke is when the mom compares the Barbie's being weak to patriarchy to Indigenous people having no immunity to Smallpox
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Jul 23, 2023 00:24
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Roth posted:The ZSJL joke is inoffensive. The real stinker of a joke is when the mom compares the Barbie's being weak to patriarchy to Indigenous people having no immunity to Smallpox
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Jul 23, 2023 00:27
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Bogus Adventure posted:Apparently, Greta explained what was behind the joke:
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Jul 23, 2023 00:30
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:That's basically her saying she didn't write the joke called it, studio note. lol at how psychotic WB is
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Jul 23, 2023 04:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Armond White’s claim to fame is that he was the only reviewer listed on Rotten Tomatoes Dot Com to rank Toy Story 3 as ‘rotten’ (i.e. below 60%). Doing so denied the film a ‘perfect score’ and, in the hype surrounding the Disney-Pixar movie where WOODY AND BUZZ LIGHTYEAR (almost) DIE AT THE END, fans were infuriated and other outlets were reporting breathlessly on the bizarre deviation. As White himself later recounts it, it was simply a critique of consumerist ideology: Oh yeah i recall the Rotten Tomatoes stuff. I remember reading his review at the time but was a dumb teenager that just went "He thinks Ham is a villain? What?" and wrote it off as nonsense. I had actually just rewatched Toy Story yesterday since they put it in theaters, and while I like 1-3 I never really thought much deeper about them than a surface level enjoyment for the movies. I think in that sense I can kinda see the point White's making, and that I don't really see much to the films beyond nostalgia for having played with various toys as an adult. The third movie especially leans heavily into that aspect since it was pretty much perfectly timed to come out when a lot of kids who grew up with 1 and 2 were themselves going off to college and nostalgic for the first two movies. I do think the first film at least has some interesting thematic stuff to it. Woody sees Buzz as competition for his entire brand influencing the life of a child while the less popular toys have given up, and even fear the possibility of being replaced with newer, fancier toys like Buzz. Buzz has an existential crisis upon seeing an advertisement and realizing he's not actually a cool action hero, he's just a piece of plastic sold to kids. In a sense I kinda see the toys in the first movie as feeling like employees of their various companies marketing themselves to Andy every day he looks at them. Perhaps that is what Armond White was tapping into in his critique.
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Jul 23, 2023 06:27
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It is so loving annoying trying to find his actual review to read because searching "Armond White Toy Story 3 review" brings up a billion articles about how Armond White ruined Toy Story 3's 100% rating
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Jul 23, 2023 06:37
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Seems peculiar to me to level consumerist critiques at a movie extoling the virtue of letting go of useless possessions and engaging in charity; to call a series an insulting product when it has a throughline -- yes, nostalgia -- that it engages with and resolves (as of that review) in a satisfactory manner. I was going to write a lot more about this but I'm not going to waste my energy on the William Buckley Jr. of film criticism.
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Jul 23, 2023 07:08
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Roth posted:It is so loving annoying trying to find his actual review to read because searching "Armond White Toy Story 3 review" brings up a billion articles about how Armond White ruined Toy Story 3's 100% rating That's because Rotten Tomatoes itself doesn't link to the actual review. The destination of the link appears to have been replaced with a redirect to an article about the article. However, the Wayback Machine has your back.
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Jul 23, 2023 08:58
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Toy Story is a series about religion. Woody is a priest, who must learn that he is called to rejoice not in the privileges of his position but in the service of his gods. He employs his esoteric knowledge of the human realm to navigate through various hells that imperil his body and his soul, and understand the meaning of the service that toys provide for children. By Toy Story 4, he embarks upon the path of the bodhisattva.
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Jul 23, 2023 09:03
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Just the idea of trying to rehabilitate Whedon is lol because it's never going to happen, he has and will continue to specifically piss off exactly the people who he'd need to win back for it. He got by on a vocal niche of popularity that has entirely turned against him or gone quiet because of those who have.Bongo Bill posted:Toy Story is a series about religion. Woody is a priest, who must learn that he is called to rejoice not in the privileges of his position but in the service of his gods. He employs his esoteric knowledge of the human realm to navigate through various hells that imperil his body and his soul, and understand the meaning of the service that toys provide for children. By Toy Story 4, he embarks upon the path of the bodhisattva. Toy Story is absolutely a series about religion. 3 is basically the characters grappling with their deaths and the ideas of the afterlife in various forms, from a quiet existence in a tomb to a nightmarish hell to ultimate cessation of existence, and manage to settle on a form of reincarnation, while others go on to Valhalla. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 15:15
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Guy A. Person posted:I hope this doesn't discourage you btw, 6ers (slang for 6 hour probations) are literally a slap on the wrist, you'll get he hang of it. I liked your twitter thread the other day about the oft-cited All-Star Superman page, if you post with that level of earnestness you should be fine I don't even remember what I said in the first place, lmao Point noted. Didn't know that All-Star Superman page twitter rant even left beyond the twitter familiars! I'm... kinda glad you liked it.
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Jul 23, 2023 16:30
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When Firefly aired, I was into Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and to a lesser extent Outlaw Star, and thought it wasn't nearly as good at any if them at being a space western and barely watched it. By Dollhouse, I was just completely uninterested in Whedon and only watched one episode. I do remember liking Dr. Horrible at the time, mainly due to me thinking it was mocking fake "nice guys," but in retrospect, it probably wasn't and might have literally believed in what the protagonist was saying. I dont think that Gunn is typically the same as Whedon with quips and jokes. I'm thinking of any non-Marvel thing he did, including even Suicide Squad, and he lets emotional moments breathe and sit with no joke at the end. How Slither handles the remaining humanity left in the main villain, a lot of stuff in Super, even the Taika flashback in Suicide Squad that leads into the actually pretty well shot eye/rats scene are all completely earnest. It just seems that the MCU forced him to always pull a little back with a joke.
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Jul 23, 2023 21:37
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I loved Firefly when it was on and bought the DVDs and thought it was one of the greatest sci-fi concepts of all time. Around ten years later I rewatched it and I think there were like two episodes that held up as legitimately good (Shindig and the one with Christina Hendricks). Even ignoring all the stuff about Whedon, I think in the long run it didn't help that basically right after Firefly came out, the new Doctor Who also launched, which at least initially was very influenced by Buffy and Whedon, and stole a lot of its Whedon thunder, while BSG stole a lot of its space opera thunder. I will say that I never liked any of Whedon's other stuff, outside of Dr. Horrible. Which I also loved at the time, but haven't gone back to rewatch.
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Jul 23, 2023 23:42
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I remember my friends hyped up Dr. Horrible (my friends were admittedly Whedonites), and I looked forward to it because I'm a stage kid who likes musicals and operas. It really fell flat for me. Some of it was clever, but the whole premise of Dr. Horrible wanting The Girl and competing with Captain Hammer for Penny felt very "nice guy"-ish and dumb. Same thing happened to me when I saw the musical episode of Buffy. I guess I just expected more. The only thing that Whedon did that I ever liked has to be The Cabin in the Woods, and part of that is because it lampoons the horror genre and I'm sucker for horror. Plus it had Richard Jenkins in it, and he rules.
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Jul 23, 2023 23:52
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Guy A. Person posted:I gotta say I appreciate the approach of just being like “whhaaattttt I don’t even know what this joke means lol how’d that get in there?” since it’s guaranteed to infuriate anyone who cares The thing is that even if the object of the joke is to purely function as a signifier, then why act surprised that it would take a "thorough understanding of the ins and outs" of a group's raison d'être to appreciate why they would be salty about being framed as misogynists? Wouldn't it be more of an indictment of them in Gerwig's own ideology if they didn't push back at all?
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Jul 23, 2023 23:58
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KVeezy3 posted:The thing is that even if the object of the joke is to purely function as a signifier, then why act surprised that it would take a "thorough understanding of the ins and outs" of a group's raison d'être to appreciate why they would be salty about being framed as misogynists? Wouldn't it be more of an indictment of them in Gerwig's own ideology if they didn't push back at all? It really sucks that I now have to worry that if I tell someone that I really like Zack Snyder's movies that I'm going to be labeled as a member of the He-Man Woman-Hater Club. He made operatic, larger-than-life superhero movies, and it ruled to see characters I grew up imagining treated like complicated characters rather than a vehicle for toys. 
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Jul 24, 2023 00:37
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Bogus Adventure posted:It really sucks that I now have to worry that if I tell someone that I really like Zack Snyder's movies that I'm going to be labeled as a member of the He-Man Woman-Hater Club. You say this as if Snyder fans haven't already been labeled as such already.
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Jul 24, 2023 00:56
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The secret: Don’t say “I like Zack Snyder movies.” Say “I like Zack Snyder’s communist movies.”
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Jul 24, 2023 01:02
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teagone posted:You say this as if Snyder fans haven't already been labeled as such already. I feel like this is publicizing that misinformed message a lot more than it was. SuperMechagodzilla posted:The secret: 
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Jul 24, 2023 01:08
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Just the idea of trying to rehabilitate Whedon is lol because it's never going to happen, he has and will continue to specifically piss off exactly the people who he'd need to win back for it. First of all, yeah, the people who he turned off in the intervening 20 years aren't coming back to him. And Whedon was essentially non grata after Age of Ultron (and the revelations of abuse wrt Buffy etc), Justice League and his HBO MAX projects were supposed to be his rehabilitation vehicle, mostly because Geoff Johns was a spiteful moron. He failed there, too.
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Jul 24, 2023 05:58
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:First of all, yeah, the people who he turned off in the intervening 20 years aren't coming back to him. Lol at the idea of Whedon's Batgirl. Just imagine. Lmao
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Jul 24, 2023 06:02
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You'd probably end up woth something similar to the killing joke movie
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Jul 24, 2023 06:47
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Bogus Adventure posted:I remember my friends hyped up Dr. Horrible (my friends were admittedly Whedonites), and I looked forward to it because I'm a stage kid who likes musicals and operas. It really fell flat for me. Some of it was clever, but the whole premise of Dr. Horrible wanting The Girl and competing with Captain Hammer for Penny felt very "nice guy"-ish and dumb. Same thing happened to me when I saw the musical episode of Buffy. I guess I just expected more. To be somewhat fair, Dr Horrible being all Nice Guy was probably supposed to be the point, he's seeing her as a prop and thinking he needs to make his grand gesture to impress her with the right trinket. (the keys to a shiny new Australia, that is) At least, it's quite possible to read into that; he sees her as a prize to be won and himself as the downtrodden underdog whose actions are inherently noble and justified. But then again, considering who was playing on those themes... really have to wonder how much of that was either by accident or Whedon taking the credit for other people's actually good ideas. It seems like the more power he has the more lovely his work gets.
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Jul 24, 2023 09:04
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It's almost a self-parody that Whedon's HBO-MAX show was about waifish young Victorian ingenues kicking rear end. That's right out of a "making fun of a typical Joss Whedon story" webcomic.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:25
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Darko posted:
I was never a whedon fan but it’s dumb to pretend Dr Horrible wasn’t mocking the nice guy archetype. It was very much in the zeitgeist in 2008, see also Braid (video game, 2008)
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Jul 24, 2023 21:14
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When mocking the Nice Guy is within the zeitgeist, the Nice Guy will gladly denounce Nice Guys while continuing to consider themself a Guy who is Nice
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Jul 25, 2023 01:18
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It was darkly amusing that the 'faux progressive man who attacks those who disagree' was supposed to be leading the charge against Whedon post Ultron. It was just a generally accepted type of guy. A progressive who's actually probably a predator. It turned out that the archetype did exist and was involved in the story, just not the way we thought.
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Jul 25, 2023 01:35
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teagone posted:You say this as if Snyder fans haven't already been labeled as such already. Yea, this is why I compared it to "toxic" Bernie Bros earlier. You gotta make peace with the fact that some people are always going to hold onto a disingenuous slander, probably because that's all they have. These generally aren't people capable of or willing to make genuine critiques lol So clap back or turn the other cheek, but don't let em get ya down!
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Jul 25, 2023 03:17
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Snowman_McK posted:It was darkly amusing that the 'faux progressive man who attacks those who disagree' was supposed to be leading the charge against Whedon post Ultron. It was just a generally accepted type of guy. A progressive who's actually probably a predator. It turned out that the archetype did exist and was involved in the story, just not the way we thought. Whedon wasn't even the worst of them in at least as far as we know not being an outright rapist, but there was absolutely something of an epidemic that even the right was pointing out and mocking. Mid-10s era progressive spaces were loving lousy with predators along with grifters and enablers. Which hasn't necessarily gotten that much better but the 2016 realignment definitely managed to be a good excuse to leave a lot of trash behind. You also get the classic narcissistic thing of people mocking and deriding the flaws in others that are even more severe in themselves. And then also doesn't help when you have the 'male feminists' going on the TERF gender essentialist lines of 'Men can't help but be predators, we're terrible' and the excuses just flow from there about how they're one of the good ones. I think the Snyder boogeyman might actually be fading because it's all the most tedious and hysterical people still pushing it.
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Jul 25, 2023 07:50
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I tuned in to see how people felt about the caring about Snyder skin to patriarchy joke and yeah gently caress that. It’s ironic that Snyder’s first superhero film was watchmen, because he did far more interesting deconstructions of heroes given the much “straighter” material of Superman and Batman movies. The krypton part of MoS still sucks though.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:01
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fr0id posted:The krypton part of MoS still sucks though.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:09
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Martman posted:no it's good
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Jul 26, 2023 01:18
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Making Zod’s crazy angry eyes at that post
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Jul 26, 2023 01:23
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Jenny Agutter posted:I was never a whedon fan but it’s dumb to pretend Dr Horrible wasn’t mocking the nice guy archetype. It was very much in the zeitgeist in 2008, see also Braid (video game, 2008) I rewatched it a few years ago and Penny was legitimately dumb and naive while Hammer sucked and had no redeeming qualities - and she got with him because Horrible saved her life but she attributed it to Hammer. It's actual typical nice guy mentality in that the hot woman doesn't realize you're actually the "righr" one for her. Contrast that with Megamind where the "jock" is super nice but not a threat, Megamind learns to grow up, and the real nice guy appears at the end and as soon as he gets power, proves to be the worst guy of any of then.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:41
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Jenny Agutter posted:I was never a whedon fan but it’s dumb to pretend Dr Horrible wasn’t mocking the nice guy archetype. It was very much in the zeitgeist in 2008, see also Braid (video game, 2008) Apologies if I'm wrong but, I mean, isn't the entire pathos of that film built around Dr Horrible getting inducted into the league of evil and everything he ever wanted, but it only cost him the love of his life? Like, it's practically transparent. Like Darko says, it's typical nice guy mentality.
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Jul 26, 2023 11:14
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fr0id posted:The krypton part of MoS still sucks though. cinema hater spotted
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Jul 26, 2023 11:48
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Apologies if I'm wrong but, I mean, isn't the entire pathos of that film built around Dr Horrible getting inducted into the league of evil and everything he ever wanted, but it only cost him the love of his life? Like, it's practically transparent. Like Darko says, it's typical nice guy mentality. Pretty much, more the idea that success and fame- even as a literal supervillain- will make him worthy of her attention and let him give her things to impress her. Captain Hammer by contrast is a thuggish bully who's found a justification and clearly sees her as a sexual conquest, but actually just asks her out and at least tries to get to know her and understand her even in a shallow and self-centred way. It's pretty on the nose where the Nice Guy stews in entitlement, obsession and resentment while maintaining a genial facade waiting for a supposed perfect moment that never comes, while the jock just asks her out. It even ends with Horrible alone and having nothing left in his life but taking out his misery on others, and having actually injured Hammer just results in him going to therapy to deal with it. That said Whedon has a case similar to another gross fucker Woody Allen of doing what I'd called 'insincere self-depreciation', recognising that traits they have are gross and awful and using those themes in their works sometimes but never actually doing anything about them or treating them with appropriate weight.
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Jul 26, 2023 12:46
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This Orson Welles quote is still the best: 
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Jul 26, 2023 13:47
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