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La Louve Rouge posted:Honestly I would have liked the tomato money to lead to a more conventional/threatening mafia element in the show because Cicero just feels like their real father I don't think I need that, personally. The first season already felt a little close to an Uncut Gems energy IMO, so adding literal life-and-death "pay back the mob" stakes feels like an unnecessary left turn. I wonder how "realistic" Cicero is of the kind of local crime boss type he's supposed to be, though. Like, in actual life, there's no way every organized crime guy acts like Scarface. It feels believable to me that some local "businessman" who's still doing this after several decades would stick to semi-legal grey market kind of crime. Would prefer his business investments be above-board because that requires less risk. Isn't a violent psychopath, threatening to slice off fingers or murder Carmy's girlfriend or something, because how do you develop a reputation like that and still get normal people to do business with you? "Your restaurant will succeed or you forfeit it and the lot it's built on" seem like pretty pragmatic crime guy stakes. He still wins either way.
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Aug 21, 2023 20:35
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the sammich window should be open from 11am-2pm and 4pm-6pm 
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Aug 21, 2023 21:08
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Xealot posted:
He definitely has more friend of the family vibes, but for fun let's dive into that a little. Arguably since he knows the property is his and he can turn around and sell it off seems to be the key here. This is less of a give-me-bag-of-drugs-to-move scenario where the person approaching the mob has nothing to offer but peddling service, The Beef has at least met the minimum bet of being able to put the property as chips on the table (metaphorically, as technically those are his chips to do what he wants cause Mike was indebted) and are asking to double down and be matched. Arguably the real reason he's meeting them in the middle the same reason he helped Mike: they're in the family. He has his bases covered with the property and is only exposing himself on these recent advances (for familia) but while doubtful also recognizes the talent involved and knows its a gamble that could result in more revenue long term than simple property value. It's business with what exposed risk is present seemingly being only tolerated due to family ties.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:19
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I also assume Cicero had other ambitions than just money at this stage in his life. Like, it still needs to make sense money-wise, but The Bear (the restaurant) offers both community enrichment and prestige if it goes well. Some random cellphone store or lovely condo or whatever doesn’t do that for him. He also presumably has a lot of money already. Being the community investor for a respected world-class restaurant in Chicago probably feels cool. I don’t think he wanted Carmy to fail.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:44
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One thing that the Christmas episode establishes is that Cicero is very much part of their family. He genuinely loves Carm and wants him to succeed, otherwise he would've taken the property already. He's more interesting as a character with ties to organized crime instead of just "rich uncle who can bail out the heroes and erase all stakes". (Even though, at this point in the show, that's essentially what he is.)
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Aug 22, 2023 02:41
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Yes. And I can see the criminal aspect to it playing into plots moving forward, but not because of pulp genre reasons. Like, I can't imagine an episode where Cicero's crew shows up during dinner rush with a goon bleeding out. But I can imagine an episode where, like, Sugar wrestles with understanding where certain funds came from. Or they have to do something "creative" to reconcile a discrepancy in the books before an audit.
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Aug 22, 2023 03:18
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Phenotype posted:This is part of why it makes so little sense. The restaurant is underwater and owes a lot of money to Oliver Platt... but also Mikey's got rolls of extra $20s lying around that he's been secretly hiding in the spaghetti sauce cans, and somehow no one's ever opened one of them to cook with (even though everyone's shocked when Carmy doesn't continue making spaghetti). Then Carmy finally finds the money and says great, let's close the place and remodel the whole thing, even though we're still deep in debt to Oliver Platt and don't actually have enough money in the cans to do the remodel. There's a moment about halfway through the first season (I think it's episode four, don't quote me on that) where Carmine uses the tomato cans as an example of Mikey's bad money habits. I.e. that Mikey had spent a whole bunch of money on ingredients that the restaurant never used. In my mind, the implication of that moment is that this was deliberate on Mikey's part, and that he was hiding the cash in plain sight, but also in such a way that the next owner (Carmine) would inevitably be motivated to open the cans and use the product in order to make the most of apparently useless stock. The irony is that the cans were an example of how terrible Mickey is with money, just not in any way that was apparent. The scene goes past so quickly and seems to incidental I missed the significance of it my first go through, but the show does attempt to buttress the reveal with some plot logic.
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Aug 22, 2023 04:40
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Open Source Idiom posted:There's a moment about halfway through the first season (I think it's episode four, don't quote me on that) where Carmine uses the tomato cans as an example of Mikey's bad money habits. I.e. that Mikey had spent a whole bunch of money on ingredients that the restaurant never used. I thought it wasn’t that they didn’t use the tomatoes but that Mikey was buying cans that weren’t the most cost-efficient size to order? That was my memory of the scene at least.
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Aug 22, 2023 11:38
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The small cans were less cost-efficient, but they 'tasted better'. Still, seems like they had a ridiculous amount of cans once they figured what was up. Surprising that they didn't say 'gently caress it' and figure out what to make with them since they had so many on hand or threw them out without ever opening them.
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Aug 22, 2023 17:35
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To be honest I just immediately suspended all disbelief on the can thing because I can't wrap my head around it at all from Mike's perspective. That process of canning must have been time consuming (which I assume he did himself, otherwise even further questions), contaminated product with a zip lock of money inside it, and eats the cost of the initial tomato order. All to.. keep the money in plain sight? Why? Money that as far as I can tell he was in need of to pay the bills, so then why was he stashing it? Was his shop being continuously shaken down by whoever he peddled the coke for? Am I missing something? Cause that all just made me go you know what, Mike's weird I don't care.
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Aug 22, 2023 18:19
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He wrote a letter with a recipe for spaghetti. He wrote the small cans tasted better. We saw the letter early on in season 1 but for some reason it was first opened in the last episode of the season. I think Mikey was trying to give Carmen an inheritance so he could make his dream restaurant or something.
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Aug 22, 2023 19:12
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vuk83 posted:He wrote a letter with a recipe for spaghetti. He wrote the small cans tasted better. We saw the letter early on in season 1 but for some reason it was first opened in the last episode of the season. I think Mikey was trying to give Carmen an inheritance so he could make his dream restaurant or something. It fell behind the desk and Richie saw it there but didn’t say anything to Carmy about it because he was being a dick iirc
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Aug 22, 2023 19:16
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Hmm yeah but why not just put in a bag in the ceiling? The money is mildly confusing compared to the can thing. Seems like a very convoluted way to stash money.
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Aug 22, 2023 19:18
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IIRC he was in debt to people who presumably were not above breaking in and looking around
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Aug 22, 2023 19:19
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That is the most plausible idea I've got, but still seems bizarre. Oh Mikey, you nut
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Aug 22, 2023 19:46
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This thread maybe has a lotta goons who've never worked in a non-corporate(or any) restaurant wondering why restaurant owners are making the decisions they make
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Aug 22, 2023 19:53
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Why is this addict doing this stuff with all this extra money he's getting that's not part of the money he uses to buy drugs, it's not the week between LOST episodes folks
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Aug 22, 2023 19:54
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I specifically do work in the industry if you are referring to me, so I will iterate again it's not the money that's confusing, it's the tomato cans. It's such an absurd plan to hide money. Also I think we are just having fun here poking at the logic because it's entertaining, at least that's all I'm doing.
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Aug 22, 2023 20:07
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offseason discussion is the perfect time to pick at every little small detail though. Why did mikey put the money in the cans? wouldn't it just be easier for him to get clean and run an efficient restaurant? I'm not sure I quite grasp what the writers were thinking here...
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Aug 22, 2023 20:07
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smh at the non junkie goons in this thread thinking they can criticize this show
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Aug 22, 2023 20:12
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The cans weren't Mikey's plan to hide the money, they were his plan to hand off the money to Carmy without anyone catching wind of it, after he killed himself so that lenders would stop looking for it. The scene in the seven fishes episode where Mikey listens to Carm talk about running the Beef together helps establish his mindset, he was in obvious pain about not being able to make that happen, probably because of the deep poo poo he was already in. His last living acts were all about doing what he could hand the Beef over to Carm with a clean slate and hopeful future. When I consider the cans I just think about how much planning went into his suicide and get sad.
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Aug 22, 2023 20:21
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mobby_6kl posted:I really remember nothing about the takout window other than it exists. It was probably explained but I don't see how they're supposed to run that on top of the fine dining restaurant when they previously barely managed to make the beef sandwiches. Phenotype posted:This is part of why it makes so little sense. The restaurant is underwater and owes a lot of money to Oliver Platt... but also Mikey's got rolls of extra $20s lying around that he's been secretly hiding in the spaghetti sauce cans, and somehow no one's ever opened one of them to cook with (even though everyone's shocked when Carmy doesn't continue making spaghetti). Then Carmy finally finds the money and says great, let's close the place and remodel the whole thing, even though we're still deep in debt to Oliver Platt and don't actually have enough money in the cans to do the remodel. As for the remodel, they chose to bet on themselves, putting the building up as the collateral, instead of just paying off a loan and continuing to run a failing restaurant in a hosed up building with electrical problems and no hope of passing an inspection. Colonel Whitey posted:I really think that for the story to go anywhere that makes sense they have to pivot away from the traditional fine dining approach from season 2. Xealot posted:I don't think I need that, personally. The first season already felt a little close to an Uncut Gems energy IMO, so adding literal life-and-death "pay back the mob" stakes feels like an unnecessary left turn.
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Aug 22, 2023 21:23
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LividLiquid posted:
I don’t really think they should go back to The Beef either, but they do need to find a “voice” in what they’re doing and the chaos menu bs is not it. The chaos menu comes across like they have no idea what they want to be and have no inspiration, so I imagine the next seasons will be about them finding that. At least, I hope. As long as they don’t stubbornly stick with this iteration of The Bear because it’s a very dull and uninspired restaurant concept.
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Aug 22, 2023 21:55
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5 bucks say they end up with something between the Beef and the Bear. Like a smart casual dining place that doesn’t care for the stars but also isn’t just a ratchet rear end disorganized place.
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Aug 22, 2023 23:00
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Vegetable posted:5 bucks say they end up with something between the Beef and the Bear Clearly Richie's The Berf shirt was a hint!
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Aug 23, 2023 01:17
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Mob posted:Why is this addict doing this stuff with all this extra money he's getting that's not part of the money he uses to buy drugs, it's not the week between LOST episodes folks Bro have you ever been within 50 feet of a junkie they're not stashing money
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Aug 23, 2023 01:47
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Having a lot of family that are bi-polar, the Christmas episode was super uncomfortable to watch. I'm not saying that's what was going on with mom, but how she was acting throughout and when she started to fall apart hit a little too close to home. Also, what relation was Odenkirk's character? Because I probably would've beat the poo poo out of him, too, if I was at that table. Yeah, Mikey's a little unhinged, but gently caress that guy. Also, whenever Claire is around, I feel like I'm watching 500 Days of Summer, and I'm not sure if that's what the writers were going for.
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Aug 23, 2023 02:14
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Faucet Drinker posted:I specifically do work in the industry if you are referring to me, so I will iterate again it's not the money that's confusing, it's the tomato cans. It's such an absurd plan to hide money. Also I think we are just having fun here poking at the logic because it's entertaining, at least that's all I'm doing. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular so no offense, I was also wondering about the cans until they found that machine that seals cans
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Aug 23, 2023 05:07
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Doltos posted:Bro have you ever been within 50 feet of a junkie they're not stashing money There are functioning junkies just like there are functioning alcoholics, this is a show about kitchens after all
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Aug 23, 2023 05:09
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I believe Bob Odenkirk was supposed to be the mom's current boyfriend. This has nothing to do with the current discussion, but having binged the show in the past week, the most random-rear end joke keeps popping up in my head, and it's Richie giving a solemn "rest in peace, Harold" to the homemade Ecto-Cooler. edit: that or asserting his "The Berf" shirt was a collectors item. a seagull fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 05:44
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a seagull posted:I believe Bob Odenkirk was supposed to be the mom's current boyfriend. There's a bit of pay-off to that in the start of Season 2; when they really get going into tearing down The Beef, Richtie takes down pictures of famous people that ate there, and of them was a signed picture of Harold Ramis (and he seems especially pained to take down that one).
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Aug 23, 2023 05:48
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LividLiquid posted:A huge remodel and lots of retraining happened in Season 2. 
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Aug 23, 2023 09:52
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It's really funny that they have like 10 people in the kitchen and can't handle a room of like 25.
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Aug 23, 2023 14:01
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What was with the, like, three people waiting in the background of the kitchen who were doing absolutely nothing other than standing at attention?
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Aug 23, 2023 14:28
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Faucet Drinker posted:Hmm yeah but why not just put in a bag in the ceiling? The money is mildly confusing compared to the can thing. Seems like a very convoluted way to stash money. There was mold in the ceiling
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Aug 23, 2023 17:47
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Ok what about a banana stand instead?
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Aug 23, 2023 19:02
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The tomato can thing isn't that hard to figure out. Mikey decided that his wife was worthless, so he took what money was left from Jimmy Cicero's loan and hid it in the cans so Carmy could have a shot at running the business himself, and then Mikey took his own life. Carmy is just a terrible business manager and now he's even deeper in debt to Jimmy Cicero / the mob and the piper is coming for his due in the next season, because Cicero gets the restaurant and the real estate unless Carmy conjures up $500,000 cash in a ridiculously small timeframe. This is literally text, it's not even subtext. Timby fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 19:28
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Timby posted:The tomato can thing isn't that hard to figure out. Mikey decided that his wife was worthless, so he took what money was left from Jimmy Cicero's loan and hid it in the cans so Carmy could have a shot at running the business himself, and then Mikey took his own life. Wasn't the money in the cans the exact amount that Mikey took from Cicero? So he was just borrowing a ton of money from a mobster and immediately canning it?
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Aug 23, 2023 19:40
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it was except for the one can that Carmy smashed and binned I think in the pilot, hopefully a dumpster diver found and opened it.
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Aug 23, 2023 20:15
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fez_machine posted:What was with the, like, three people waiting in the background of the kitchen who were doing absolutely nothing other than standing at attention? Those were food runners, no?
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Aug 23, 2023 20:33
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