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ShadowMar
Mar 2, 2010

HERE IS A
GRAVEYARD
OF YOU!


Section Z posted:

DnD also has the ironic hell of letting you roleplay better by having to make poo poo up for roleplay, than most "storytelling" systems.

The sales pitch is always "Oh but you can really roleplay in THIS system! Unlike stupid combat system for idiots!"

The result is always "Excuse me, you can't do that. The chart is sacred. Also I see you didn't roll high for searching a filing cabinet, allowing me to bank a consequence coupon to declare 'you crash a car' or 'the monster gets a new power' later."

Storytelling systems are basically a scumbag rules lawyer wet dream for GMs who want to tell themselves "I'm not a jerk obsessed with winning! You get bonus experience when I declare your crit success was actually a horrible gently caress up!"

A friend of mine was eyeing the Cypher system for later. They thought I read it ahead of time when, half of my jokes about those trends were literal examples of "How to GM your story system. When a player stacks bonuses so they can actually climb a wall without falling down and hurting themselves, declare the wall collapses with your GM interrupt" in the rule book.

please get new friends to play ttrpgs with jesus christ

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The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

i'll probably play starfield on the deck over xcloud rather than install a 125GB game

will it have serious connection issues from wifi interference in my apartment? absolutely, cannot wait

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Section Z posted:

DnD also has the ironic hell of letting you roleplay better by having to make poo poo up for roleplay, than most "storytelling" systems.

The sales pitch is always "Oh but you can really roleplay in THIS system! Unlike stupid combat system for idiots!"

The result is always "Excuse me, you can't do that. The chart is sacred. Also I see you didn't roll high for searching a filing cabinet, allowing me to bank a consequence coupon to declare 'you crash a car' or 'the monster gets a new power' later."

Storytelling systems are basically a scumbag rules lawyer wet dream for GMs who want to tell themselves "I'm not a jerk obsessed with winning! You get bonus experience when I declare your crit success was actually a horrible gently caress up!"

A friend of mine was eyeing the Cypher system for later. They thought I read it ahead of time when, half of my jokes about those trends were literal examples of "How to GM your story system. When a player stacks bonuses so they can actually climb a wall without falling down and hurting themselves, declare the wall collapses with your GM interrupt" in the rule book.

skill issue, also deranged GM. Find a better group holmes

Lakbay
Dec 14, 2006

My eye...MY EYE!!!

TeaJay posted:

When I tried the demo for Sea of Stars it definitely felt good. The pixel art graphics were nice, music was great, characters were fun, even though the demo kinda drops you in the middle of the plot, I had a good time with it. Combat has some unique ideas which I'm sure there'll be more with the full game.

I have no idea how much it launches for, Microsoft Store at least seems to offer it for 35€ which seems like a bit steep, but we'll see. (probably not steep if it's a long rear end pixel art RPG, but rather steep in the sense that august-september is so full of good games I want to try...)

Reviews say it's around 25-30 hours to complete which I agree is pretty steep for that price point. Chained Echoes was around 40 hours if you do most everything and that's only $25

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
I've seen a lot of complaints about that Sea of Stars' writing. Like the story and characters, but also even the grammar.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Real talk I could go at length at how baffling that post is, not least of which it doesn't describe the gameplay of any popular rules light story-forward ttrpg made in the last decade. But this is not the trad games forum and this is the Steam Thread.

All I'll say is: forced, non negotiable random chart rolls instead of having conversations with the GM and other players like grown ups? It sounds like a GM deliberately misreading solo RPG Oracles they found online and gaslighting their players into thinking this is what "storytelling games" are.

Like seriously who even plays Cypher, it's written by Monte Cook, a notoriously wonky D&D writer, for Numenera.

All the story-forward ttrpg groups I've seen run PbtA or FitD-based systems. All the tactical combat heads I know play LANCER or, if they can get a group together, Fragged Empire, because frankly D&D is really bad at tac combat too, despite it being 40% of the rules by volume. (The rest is mostly the spell list.)

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Real sickos play loving Shadowrun despite the fact that they all know and agree its dogshit because there's no actual replacement for loving Shadowrun, not even Cyberpunk RED, bless Maximum Mike's heart.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Rinkles posted:

I've seen a lot of complaints about that Sea of Stars' writing. Like the story and characters, but also even the grammar.

this was a carryover from The Messenger that worried me way more than the Petersen rants. the dialogue in that game felt really first draft and there wasn’t even that much of it

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012

Runa posted:

Real sickos play loving Shadowrun despite the fact that they all know and agree its dogshit because there's no actual replacement for loving Shadowrun, not even Cyberpunk RED, bless Maximum Mike's heart.
What ever happened with that new ruleset for Cyberpunk during all the videogame hype? I had a few friends pick up the rulebook but never heard anything from them about it.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


Runa posted:

Real sickos play loving Shadowrun despite the fact that they all know and agree its dogshit because there's no actual replacement for loving Shadowrun, not even Cyberpunk RED, bless Maximum Mike's heart.

I am the realest sicko and literally homebrewed a Shadowrun heartbreaker because of how dogshit the game was. Not my greatest design moment, but the campaign was fun and more functional than what we would have had if we used the Shadowrun rules. Highlight to the run where the players did security for a DOTA championship and spent most of their time finding ways to cheat in their team''s favour, just mentioning that one since this is still the Steam thread.

Seriously, people complain about DnD not learning its lessons despite 50 years of game design since the original, but Shadowrun easily surpasses it as a system that manages to get less and less functional with every edition.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Culminating with 6th edition that was so hideously broken out-of-the-box that the playerbase just gave up. Edition wars these days are about which older edition to use (2e vs 3e vs 4e), not newest-edition-vs-older-edition.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


Rinkles posted:

I've seen a lot of complaints about that Sea of Stars' writing. Like the story and characters, but also even the grammar.

i tried the demo and thought it was written by someone whose first language was not english

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









ZearothK posted:

I am the realest sicko and literally homebrewed a Shadowrun heartbreaker because of how dogshit the game was. Not my greatest design moment, but the campaign was fun and more functional than what we would have had if we used the Shadowrun rules. Highlight to the run where the players did security for a DOTA championship and spent most of their time finding ways to cheat in their team''s favour, just mentioning that one since this is still the Steam thread.

Seriously, people complain about DnD not learning its lessons despite 50 years of game design since the original, but Shadowrun easily surpasses it as a system that manages to get less and less functional with every edition.

if you're playing cyberpunk you should cut to the chase and do CYBERSPACE the rolemaster skin absolute sleazy 80s legend of a game

It's a stripped down version of rm, but the combat and skills are slick and deadly.

Crab Battle
Jan 16, 2010

Haha! Yeah!
Not sure if this is still the best place these days, but here's some spare keys from the recent Humble Bundle:

Pump?in Jac?: QT025-?8PXC-J865P
K?o the K?ng?roo: 53W?Z-Z8H8Z-8GMR2

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Croccers posted:

What ever happened with that new ruleset for Cyberpunk during all the videogame hype? I had a few friends pick up the rulebook but never heard anything from them about it.

I imagine Cyberpunk 2077 having a mixed reception didn't help. Edgerunners brought it back but RED is still on the higher end of crunchiness, despite Mike's deliberate trimming down of things.

Flair
Apr 5, 2016

GordonTheDeadFish posted:

Not sure if this is still the best place these days, but here's some spare keys from the recent Humble Bundle:

Pump?in Jac?: QT025-?8PXC-J865P
K?o the K?ng?roo: 53W?Z-Z8H8Z-8GMR2

Conventionally, Goons put the keys in here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3513572&goto=lastpost since it is behind the paywall, but they are originally your keys. It is your choice to share wherever

FutureCop
Jun 7, 2011

Have you heard of Fermat's principle?

Rinkles posted:

I've seen a lot of complaints about that Sea of Stars' writing. Like the story and characters, but also even the grammar.

Was watching some reviews like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgWXfef_GKk To sum up their thoughts, it seems like while the shared-universe world-building and cross-game connections/implications to The Messenger are very cool and interesting to see and look forward to in future games from this company, the Sea of Stars story by itself, while serviceable, is a bit unsatisfying: the protagonists and antagonists are never fully fleshed out and have way too simplistic motivations, and it ends without any sort of big climax or twists that you'd think it would build up to: you do what you're supposed to do and nothing beyond that. Beyond that, the game is still pretty cool, especially combat/world traversal is great, but they note that combat can be a bit tiresome to some people from how every fight, even non-boss encounters, demands your attention and strategy lest you get stomped into the dirt.

FutureCop fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Aug 29, 2023

Flair
Apr 5, 2016
https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/3656413110959860073

Strategy Fest giving out daily stickers

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Resdfru posted:

Are you being paid to slag off Starfield everytime it's mentioned in this thread

No. I'm doing a public service.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
I already preordered Starfield. I'm gonna wait a few years though for all the mods to come out first though

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Kragger99 posted:

It's a SA honoured tradition for goons to hate boner post about games that haven't been released yet, or they haven't played.

Bethesda is going to release the exact same lovely game they have consistently made for the last 20 years with a new skin on top of it.
You don't need to be a precog to know that.

Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Aug 29, 2023

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh

Jack Trades posted:

Bethesda is going to release the payment exactly the same lovely game they have consistently made for the last 20 years with a new skin on top of it.
You don't need to be a precog to know that.
Some people like those games

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.
:byetankie:

Jack Trades posted:

Bethesda is going to release the payment exactly the same lovely game they have consistently made for the last 20 years with a new skin on top of it.
You don't need to be a precog to know that.

Hey bud: the games you enjoy? bad

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆
some? they're incredibly popular

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



RELEASE THE PAYMENT

Orv
May 4, 2011
You know I was just wondering the other day what happened to Dumbest Motherfucker In Games, Xyphod but in a way it’s like he never really left.

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021


Look, nobody actually likes anything for any of the reasons they think they do if I, the only person who matters, do not personally also enjoy it.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Volte posted:

Some people like those games

And I like Musou games. It doesn't mean that they aren't the exact same badly made games being reskinned over and over, year after year.

fez_machine
Nov 27, 2004
Even the most disliked and unsuccessful Beth game, 76, is well liked and played enough to have a robust fan base

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh

Jack Trades posted:

And I like Musou games. It doesn't mean that they aren't the exact same badly made games being reskinned over and over, year after year.
What do you mean "year after year"? You're referring to, collectively, five games released over the course of 21 years. Five games that have plenty of differences mechanically, even between instalments of the same franchise.

Volte fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 29, 2023

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

fez_machine posted:

Even the most disliked and unsuccessful Beth game, 76, is well liked and played enough to have a robust fan base

let us all take a moment of silence to pray for the f76 gamers
inshallah they will find the light and be free

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Volte posted:

What do you mean "year after year"? You're referring to, collectively, five games released over the course of 21 years. Five games that have plenty of differences mechanically, even between instalments of the same franchise.

Yes. That building system glued on top of Fallout 4 was truly revolutionary.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

Volte posted:

What do you mean "year after year"? You're referring to, collectively, five games released over the course of 21 years. Five games that don't even share a whole lot in common mechanically, even between instalments of the same franchise.

i wonder how they came up with the name for "dynasty warriors 9" when there are only 5 games in its entire genre, let alone its specific series

just in 2022 the same dev (Omega Force) released two Musou games, Touken Ranbu Warriors and the second Fire Emblem Warriors game
and Samurai Remnant is releasing a month from now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbNxxaPFyXQ

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

i wonder how they came up with the name for "dynasty warriors 9" when there are only 5 games in its entire genre, let alone its specific series
If he wasn't talking about Bethesda games then I don't know what the point of bringing up and dragging Musou games was. Bethesda games are lovely because Musou games are badly made reskins released year after year? That's just gibberish.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Jack Trades posted:

And I like Musou games. It doesn't mean that they aren't the exact same badly made games being reskinned over and over, year after year.

Fromsoft games are ok imo

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



RPATDO_LAMD posted:

i wonder how they came up with the name for "dynasty warriors 9" when there are only 5 games in its entire genre, let alone its specific series
in japan they call it shin sangokumusou 8

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Volte posted:

If he wasn't talking about Bethesda games then I don't know what the point of bringing up and dragging Musou games was. Bethesda games are lovely because Musou games are badly made reskins released year after year? That's just gibberish.

Bethesda makes games the same way Koei Tecmo makes Musou games, except there's a little more room between the releases.
I thought I was pretty clear on that.

Literally just saw the guard system in Starfield yesterday and it could've easily been Morrowind or Oblivion if I squinted a little.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

Jack Trades posted:

Bethesda makes games the same way Koei Tecmo makes Musou games, except there's a little more room between the releases.
I thought I was pretty clear on that.

Literally just saw the guard system in Starfield yesterday and it could've easily been Morrowind or Oblivion if I squinted a little.

i thought that was a fake leak made with a skyrim mod

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh
Yeah but it's not Guard System: The Game. Most RPGs have some system where if you violate the law, a guard says "you violated the law" and you can resist or go to jail. The fact that this game also has one is not some gotcha that it's just copy-pasted shovelware. Baldur's Gate 3 has the exact same thing.

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Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Volte posted:

Yeah but it's not Guard System: The Game. Most RPGs have some system where if you violate the law, a guard says "you violated the law" and you can resist or go to jail. The fact that this game also has one is not some gotcha that it's just copy-pasted shovelware. Baldur's Gate 3 has the exact same thing.

The unmoving glassy-eyed stare right into the camera as they wait for you to pick a dialogue option IS literally half the game though and there have been no improvements to that core part of the game since Morrowind.

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