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Quantum of Phallus posted:Explain They're both major angles built on showing simple relationship dynamics through promo segments and expressed in matches by having broad pantomime and visual callbacks. If you set aside the main story beats, there's two main reasons AEW is doing it better. 1) AEW lets its wrestlers have unique skillsets. MJF is established as a guy who does old fashioned heel work and broad pantomime, so this angle is a natural outgrowth of his skill set. Roman is stuck acting like the stock WWE heel, so he can only bring being a stock WWE heel to this. 2) AEW has been taking another step on this storyline every week. WWE has been spinning its wheels with the Bloodline as often as possible, so the only times these two storylines are really comparable are brief pockets like the Sami feud where they're actually doing things. I really like the MJF/Adam Cole program, for the record, but it is a similar kind of wrestling storyline.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:16
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Angle/Taker is a perfectly fine 4-star match with a cheap finish. I've gone back and watched it a few times because I'll randomly be reminded people think it was the greatest match of 2006, but it never really blows me away. Angle/HBK is better. Could make the case for it as perfect depending on how much you like Shawn Michaels in-match soap opera bullshit. Dude is in the ankle lock for like 10 minutes before tapping, I mean cmon
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Aug 30, 2023 19:20
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Its fun to remember that the MJF/Cole storyline started on June 25 (the time limit draw) and has about as much progress as the Bloodline, where Roman has been champion and yelling at Jimmy for three years.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:30
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so, i don't watch WWE. All i really know about Roman is that he's got a faction and he has some civil wars in it sometimes and he's the guy and no one beats him. What is the like, stuff people are comparing MJF/Cole and the Bloodline with, for someone who doesn't watch WWE?
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Aug 30, 2023 20:04
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everybody talks too much, thats it
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Aug 30, 2023 20:08
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Nea posted:so, i don't watch WWE. All i really know about Roman is that he's got a faction and he has some civil wars in it sometimes and he's the guy and no one beats him. What is the like, stuff people are comparing MJF/Cole and the Bloodline with, for someone who doesn't watch WWE? It's very heavily weighted on (imo badly acted, with some exceptions) drama and skits and less in-ring story development. Plus both Bloodline and MJF/Cole are their respective companies' main storylines that revolve around the world title.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:10
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The MJF & Adam Cole storyline is like the Bloodline story in that you're wondering when one guy is going to turn, and every week they build off of the relationship between them and old friends (Roderick Strong and Kevin Owens, respectively). It's different in that the Bloodline is a stable of three (at one point 5) wrestlers while MJF & Adam Cole are just two wrestlers, and also that the Bloodline didn't really have a 'story' until Triple H got the book around Clash at the Castle.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:12
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I mean MJF/Cole is also pulling in Roddy and the Kingdom, maybe Aussie Open too so it's not that different in terms of the number of people involved.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:18
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I've been reading Observer Rewinds and Dave is all over Angles dick almost right after he debuts, giving him high parisen, and saying that he and the murdered are two of the all time greatest wrestlers...
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Aug 30, 2023 20:34
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flashy_mcflash posted:I mean MJF/Cole is also pulling in Roddy and the Kingdom, maybe Aussie Open too so it's not that different in terms of the number of people involved. Yeah sounds more like the Elite and Hangman with how it pulled in Dark Order.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:37
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flashy_mcflash posted:I've seen this before, but what did the issue immediately following this look like? How did he justify walking this back? He says in that issue that he's going to continue doing shorter newsletters "every few weeks" with short updates and less analysis, and if you have outstanding Observers on your subscription you'll get those until your sub is up. I suspect there was no "walking back," he just kept sending out those newsletters and (not so) gradually added back in more of the analysis and stories until it looked the same as the Observer used to.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:59
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I just watched the Angle vs. Michaels match from WrestleMania 21 and it was pretty good. Not five stars though. Dave was right.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:11
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How many stars did the Angle/Benoit Rumble match get?
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Aug 30, 2023 21:22
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:How many stars did the Angle/Benoit Rumble match get? 4.75
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Aug 30, 2023 21:24
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The biggest tell on how Meltzer considered the 2000s isn't his west ratings it's the complete drop off of five star ratings in Japan too. Only one NJPW but more glaringly only two NOAH matches got five stars. That is insane. I know people gnash over Kurt and Danielson getting no fives then but that 2000s NOAH was not getting flowers meant nothing could really impress him. Kenta Kobashi v Kensuke Sasaki didn't even get 5.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:25
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4.75. People were outraged at the time.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:25
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4.75 by far the cattiest rating dave can give
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Aug 30, 2023 21:26
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I got pretty similar taste to meltz and like, for me that era, its the same problem wwe always had, finishes. You can have the best wrestlers in the world going at it but if the match ends lovely it nocks a little off the joy of the thing, and wwe lives and dies by poo poo finishes.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 21:27
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In ring wrestling just wasn't very good in the mid 2000s on a major league level. WWE put together the greatest roster the world had ever seen and was bad. The other American promotions all died, New Japan was not good, NOAH splitting off meant more talent dilution in Japan and Mexico hasn't gotten the same star rating attention since the 90s.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:36
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Is there a podcast that covers the indies, Japan, and Mexico during that era?
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Aug 30, 2023 21:48
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Big problem is, that whole era is like a black hole of available footage. At least easily accessible online. I was recently super hype to see gaia japan started a youtube because what little i had seen previously looked great but was also rare and in awful shape.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:53
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The only match Meltzer should re-rate is Joe/Kobashi because that's at least worth another 1/2 a star. I've been watching wrestling with a friend since Lucha Underground to current AEW showing him all the best matches and to give context to the Joe vs Darby match from earlier this year, I showed him Joe vs Kobashi, and he says it's the best thing he's watched in all those years. And he's normally a guy that loves high flying, acrobatic stuff.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:04
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Kobashi/Sasake as previously mentioned and KENTA/Marufuji off the top of my head. Hell he gave no five stars to anything in DragonGate but did to their ROH DragonGate rules match. Like wrestling was in a down period but Danielson won best overall for years in a row and didn't get anything. I really do think that era was hamstrung by MMA, and especially PRIDE, which really changed perception of what fights should look like. You had PRIDE fighters winning a fair few WON awards during that era and Sakuraba's emtire story was better than anything going in in wrestling.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:16
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He's right. https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1697370117586460726
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Aug 31, 2023 23:18
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really it's star ratings deflation if you think about it
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Aug 31, 2023 23:24
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The star economy is in recession
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Aug 31, 2023 23:52
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Lanza's Dynamite review this week had a bunch of stuff on Orange Cassidy, his current storyline and what his direction should be going forward that I absolutely loved.
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Sep 1, 2023 02:12
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I'll listen to that and the Flagship while I work tomorrow and I can finally have an opinion on if yesterday's Dynamite was good or not
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Sep 1, 2023 02:14
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Another beautiful example of Bryan shouting and begging to Dave to let him finish the point he's making and Dave insisting on going off on a tangent instead on the latest WOR 
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Sep 1, 2023 04:33
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Jerusalem posted:Another beautiful example of Bryan shouting and begging to Dave to let him finish the point he's making and Dave insisting on going off on a tangent instead on the latest WOR My favorite part was Dave calling out Bryan just wandering off while Dave was talking.
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Sep 1, 2023 04:53
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1glitch0 posted:My favorite part was Dave calling out Bryan just wandering off while Dave was talking. Then repeating exactly what he said even though Bryan could still hear him the first time and had only stepped off camera to blow his nose or something
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Sep 1, 2023 04:54
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Jerusalem posted:Then repeating exactly what he said even though Bryan could still hear him the first time and had only stepped off camera to blow his nose or something Sometimes I wonder if their relationship is fraying because there seems to be a lot more sniping in like the last 6 months than before. maybe i'm imagining it
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Sep 1, 2023 05:06
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Well obviously nobody online actually knows what their relationship is like, but I've always at least gotten the impression that they still get on great but it's just a simple reality that Bryan's a dad with two little kids now and he's loving tired as a result and it doesn't help that Dave insists on doing the shows late at night. He's (Bryan) also currently at home alone because he's got Covid and so his wife and kids have extended their trip to avoid getting sick too, which probably doesn't help his mood. Whenever they get together in person and do a show it's always great, though they don't seem to have put their London Q&A up, I think they've put it behind some extra paywall or something? Anyway, all that's largely irrelevant, I don't know them and never will, they're just the two funny dudes who like to talk about wrassling, and they're still giving me that in spades!
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Sep 1, 2023 05:43
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The green Kane tangent on Deadlock was incredible. It was a legit big rumor back in the day on websites.
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Sep 1, 2023 07:14
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1glitch0 posted:Sometimes I wonder if their relationship is fraying because there seems to be a lot more sniping in like the last 6 months than before. maybe i'm imagining it You’re imagining it
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Sep 1, 2023 07:38
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dave brought his girlfriend to london, would he have done that if his relationship with bryan were still emotionally fulfilling? the answer is clear
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Sep 1, 2023 07:52
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"A TIGER could hit the ring, but unless he eats you, it's not a DQ."
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Sep 1, 2023 08:25
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I thought the 97 Michaels/Undertaker HIAC match was really good, I think it deserved its five stars
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Sep 1, 2023 13:21
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NienNunb posted:I thought the 97 Michaels/Undertaker HIAC match was really good, I think it deserved its five stars
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Sep 1, 2023 14:00
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I usually only lurk in here but I feel I need to post about my abject hate for you all. I used to love the current B&V theme, never skipped it, sang along to it loudly in the car by myself... But then you absolute pricks in here recently mentioned another work by the same artist, Pepper Coyote, which I then checked out and now I can't get the horse cock lyrics out of my head and I cannot listen the B&V theme anymore and you ruined it all for me. Ruined... it... all. Edward Mass posted:"A TIGER could hit the ring, but unless he eats you, it's not a DQ." I laughed at that whole DQ schpeel about the gun and the tiger but lately the thing that regularly has me laughing until my stomach hurts is Granny's memoir readings.
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Sep 2, 2023 05:42
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