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Trying to decide if I should invoke the inspection contingency & walk away from this very expensive home I'm under contract for, would appreciate comment on some of the stuff inspections turned up.quote:The cripple walls in the crawlspace (short stud wall between the top of foundation and floor) are not This is in California, for reference. When I read "part of the wall that holds up your house is out of plumb" I get rather concerned... The house appears to be level at the current time, but is it a major undertaking to fix this stuff? quote:One or more galvanized steel plumbing pipes and fittings at the rear crawlspace have heavy corrosion We got the plumbing inspection done today, quote coming tomorrow but he mentioned there's definitely one very small leak currently active. Sellers requested a 2 week rentback so repairs might not occur for another 4 weeks
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Sep 7, 2023 04:29
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I am not formally qualified in any way on these topics, and cannot advise you on whether your potential house will fall down. But to me this sounds like "install bracing, attach to the sole plate, replace the pipes". You can go talk to the current owners and say "hey I want $20k off the price to deal with this crap", and dicker from there. That said, I certainly would ask the inspector for more information on those points, and consider getting a qualified person to look at major points of concern.
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Sep 7, 2023 04:43
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smashmyradio posted:YEP that's a gross floor! Stinks bad! The stairs are grotesque and the hallway at the top looks like they slapped some plywood down, pissed on it for 40 years, and used some type of wood glue to make crappy little ramps into the bedrooms and put carpet over the whole thing. That all has to be dealt with somehow... The bedrooms look like reasonable wood though? Maybe I can just sand them and paint them? There are weird little gaps and stuff. What if the smell is too deep in the wood? I’m not advocating for any specific tools or methods in the video, I’m just not sure you’re aware of floor sanders and how much they can do
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Sep 7, 2023 04:46
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i like nice words
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I don't know anything about the pipes, but "your cripple wall isn't braced" is so routine a California problem that my earthquake insurance would give me a discount to fix it. Furthermore, check to see if your county has a brace and bolt remediation program; if so, you can enter a statewide lottery (of sorts) to get a subsidy on fixing it. I wouldn't walk away from a California house with a cripple wall; it's a pain to fix but not usually ruinous. Add plywood, bing bang you're done. The pipes will be annoying to fix, but they don't sound like a disaster as long as the pipes are exposed; consult everybody else in the thread for that.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:06
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Pham Nuwen posted:Trying to decide if I should invoke the inspection contingency & walk away from this very expensive home I'm under contract for, would appreciate comment on some of the stuff inspections turned up. Preface: I'm not an expert, just some guy on the internet. Sounds like you know the plumbing system is at the end of its lifespan. If you buy the house, have it done yourself. I wouldn't want the PO in charge of it. The other stuff sounds to me like it hasn't been tied to the foundation for earthquake prep. To me that's not a big deal. Do earthquake prep when you're ready. The "recently installed & out of plumb" is something to ask the inspector about. But all this is contingent (hah) on if you still want to buy the place, right? If you're in none of this sounds like a deal killer as described. If you don't want it then get out.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:15
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California learns from every earthquake how to do better next time. In one of the 90s (IIRC) earthquakes we found out that stick-built cripple walls will lean over sideways, destroying the house. We didn't know that before the 90s, so there are a fuckton of California houses with un-braced cripple walls.This is how earthquake code works. If you had a "soft story", meaning that living space was built over a garage, that would genuinely be a walk-away-now issue. Bracing a cripple wall requires nothing but plywood. You want to keep all those vertical supports from collapsing sideways, and all you need do is nail up a plywood facing to keep them from failing in that way.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:28
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Vim Fuego posted:Preface: I'm not an expert, just some guy on the internet. Is it ok to let a leak go for 4 weeks until closing, though? I'll get the full plumber's report tomorrow but while they said it was a small leak, presumably in the crawlspace, I still worry about it expanding and causing damage to the home. Also, more generally, how does anybody close on a house knowing the entire framework could just be pure dry rot ready to crumble at any minute? I mean the whole thing looks solid, but the question of what lurks inside those walls is literally keeping me up at night.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:36
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Pham Nuwen posted:Also, more generally, how does anybody close on a house knowing the entire framework could just be pure dry rot ready to crumble at any minute? I mean the whole thing looks solid, but the question of what lurks inside those walls is literally keeping me up at night. Every single house, including the mansion a billionaire bought last week, is subject to decay. This is an unavoidable part of buying a house: poo poo could go wrong without your being able to predict it. It is exactly like a natural disaster. How do you stand living in an earthquake zone? The same way you stand the risk of a burglary. You make plans to cope, or you trust that it won't happen to you. poo poo absolutely happens when you own a house. For most of us, it's poo poo we manage to cope with. It is absolutely positively reasonable to say "I want somebody else to shoulder that risk, not me." That is completely valid. Most of us in this thread, consciously or not, decided it was more fun owning a house than the risk of having a catastrophe. That is not mandatory! I bought insurance. I weathered some disasters in different houses. I'm still glad I did, because I liked having a permanent place to garden. Your motivation may vary.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:48
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Only an engineer can tell you if those cripple walls are something to be worried about. If they're recently installed there should be a permit, pull it. Make sure there is a final signature on it. If it's not permitted but obviously recent I would walk, or extend the contingency to get an engineer in if you're desperate for this exact house. Look up the California "CEA brace and bolt" program and get their requirements. If you don't meet them then DEFINITELY have an engineer look at it. Or at least threaten to. If you do and are in Los Angeles County we were entirely happy with "anchorstrong." came out to $1200 out of pocket after the brace and bolt program paid for 85% of it.
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Sep 7, 2023 05:50
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H110Hawk posted:Only an engineer can tell you if those cripple walls are something to be worried about. If they're recently installed there should be a permit, pull it.
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Sep 7, 2023 06:06
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Quibble: it is unlikely that the cripple walls were recently installed. It is possible that a bad fix for cripple walls was recently installed, but cripple walls are a way of tying the foundation to the house, and would have been there since the original build in nearly all circumstances. Yeah but fresh wood indicates repair.
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Sep 7, 2023 06:17
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H110Hawk posted:Yeah but fresh wood indicates repair. I completely overlooked that. You're right. OP, check for permits.
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Sep 7, 2023 06:25
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I completely overlooked that. You're right. OP, check for permits. That's the part that makes me nervous. Fresh wood, out of plumb, not connected to the sill plate. If it was 70 years old and fine its going to probably keep being fine. My 1947 house was fine. Old, but fine. Now it's got a gallon of rated epoxy and a hundred or so rated plates and bolts making sure that if the big one hits the whole thing comes crashing down. Versus before where the slightly less big one might make it slip off the foundation and then be standing yet condemned.
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Sep 7, 2023 07:00
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Anne Whateley posted:To be clear, before you start messing with enzyme cleaners and Kilz and worrying about paint, I would use the fun machine that goes brrrrrr. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cvz11qvKX4L/ 
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Sep 7, 2023 12:42
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smashmyradio posted:that looks extremely satisfying, pretty sure the face bandana isn't sufficient protection though Yeah watching the (lack of) PPE use in home improvement/reno videos is loving wild. Just raw dogging a century of accumulated dust and poo poo and varnish containing who-knows-what. Amazing.
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Sep 7, 2023 13:17
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tuyop posted:Yeah watching the (lack of) PPE use in home improvement/reno videos is loving wild. In the 90s I rented a house where the landlord paid to have a crew sand the floor. We had an old-fashioned fusebox and they pulled the fuse and just stuck a screwdriver in there so they wouldn't be interrupted.
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Sep 7, 2023 13:42
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H110Hawk posted:Only an engineer can tell you if those cripple walls are something to be worried about. If they're recently installed there should be a permit, pull it. Make sure there is a final signature on it. If it's not permitted but obviously recent I would walk, or extend the contingency to get an engineer in if you're desperate for this exact house. Inspector clarified that he was talking about a few studs in the cripple wall, not the entire side of the house... but yeah I'm looking at the permit record and I don't see anything related to it. We're in the last day of the inspection contingency, already extended once (from 6 days to a generous... 9), so I'm afraid it's too late to really do anything except decide if we're moving forward or backing out. edit: unless they did it as part of the work to add the little extension at the back of the house, in 1990. Current owners have only had the place 5 years so they don't know a drat thing. Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 15:35
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Pham Nuwen posted:Inspector clarified that he was talking about a few studs in the cripple wall, not the entire side of the house... but yeah I'm looking at the permit record and I don't see anything related to it. A couple of studs isn't something to worry about. Probably means someone, somewhere, had some section 1 termite work completed. A whole new wall is bad. If there's an unpermitted addition though, that's gnarly.
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Sep 7, 2023 16:49
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H110Hawk posted:A couple of studs isn't something to worry about. Probably means someone, somewhere, had some section 1 termite work completed. A whole new wall is bad. If there's an unpermitted addition though, that's gnarly. The addition is permitted.
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Sep 7, 2023 16:58
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Pham, I didn't really acknowledge what you were saying about staying up nights. I don't know if this will be any comfort, but everybody, except contractors, is nervous buying their houses. (My husband had to stop the car and throw up on the way to the closing on our first house.) As the slogan says, it's the biggest purchase you'll make in your whole life. Dealing with it is mostly a matter of time and of acknowledging low-but-large risks. You do drive places; you do walk into unreinforced masonry buildings in California; you do cross the street. All of these are low but large risks. The reason this thread consistently recommends having substantial savings after you pay for the house is to give you a cushion against low but medium risks. I can't advise you on whether to pull out of this house, although H110Hawk sounds sensible and informed to me. I can tell you that any not-brand-new house you buy will have something significant come up on the inspection. The anxiety is going to be there, and you have to roll with it.
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Sep 7, 2023 17:04
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We almost pulled out of buying our first house because of nerves. It was to the point where I asked to have the cancellation paperwork drafted but the realtor talked us back for better or worse. Of the things we found on inspection none of them turned out to be a huge deal but it was a tough pill to swallow especially for someone who is not a contractor. Unless it's obviously a huge deal like a crumbling foundation or termite infestation I'd say go for it. You'll be finding stupid little things that are wrong for years after you move in but that's the name of the game. Just try your best to not be 'stupid PO' for the next person.
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Sep 7, 2023 17:20
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And if you run out of existing Gary problems you can go back and redo the "temporary" repairs that you did over the years! Electrician got back to me finally and quoted $650 to split the kitchen into five 20A circuits vs the single 20A in place now. gently caress yeah we're doing that, it is going to pay off nearly every morning.
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Sep 7, 2023 17:35
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Pham, I didn't really acknowledge what you were saying about staying up nights. I don't know if this will be any comfort, but everybody, except contractors, is nervous buying their houses. (My husband had to stop the car and throw up on the way to the closing on our first house.) As the slogan says, it's the biggest purchase you'll make in your whole life. We're currently looking at the following things needing to be done:
also since the roof is 25 years old, it'll need to be changed sooner than later. We've got enough money left to pay for all those things, although the amount we put into savings every month will immediately get a lot smaller. It just feels lovely to buy a place knowing I immediately need to put $30,000 into it, even if we managed to get the seller to cover half.
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Sep 7, 2023 17:40
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The past consensus of the thread has been that any problems you discover during the sale process are problems that you want to pay for yourself, not to rely on the previous owner's paying the cheapest contractor that will claim to have done the work. I don't know how hot the market is where you are now. There were certainly times in the SF Bay area when sellers could afford to say "gently caress you, repair that yourself." Getting a $30,000 rebate seems unlikely to me, and I suspect would make the seller back out. If it were me, I'd consult my realtor about getting some kind of rebate for the termite damage, and eat the rest as part of the price of the house. e: I am prepared to have every single electrician in the thread jump down my throat, but upgrading the electric service is not an urgent problem. It needs to be done, but it is a major inconvenience rather than a risk. You can, and should, spread out the contracting that isn't urgent because life with multiple contractors in the house is Hell. If you had a Zinsco, Federal Pacific, or other fire-hazard panel, the answer would be different. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 17:51
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The past consensus of the thread has been that any problems you discover during the sale process are problems that you want to pay for yourself, not to rely on the previous owner's paying the cheapest contractor that will claim to have done the work. Yeah, it's the SF Bay area (well, the Tri-Valley) so things are still pretty hot. Is it common / ok for studs in the cripple wall to be stained like this? I can't tell if it's rot or not.
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Sep 7, 2023 17:56
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Pham Nuwen posted:
Inertia is real in houses-they don't usually just fall down. If there is some old termite damage, it may well be 30 years old. The house obviously hasn't fallen down in that time, and it probably never will. An active termite infestation is a different thing and you should run far away from a house that has one.
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Sep 7, 2023 19:00
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Is this for existing termite damage or what? I would generally not recommend 'opening things to look for further damage' unless you just really like burning money. Sure, if you're gonna do an addition or other major work in that area, fix the problems you encounter in the course of that work, but don't go looking for problems imo. Opening it up was in reference to fungus at the corner of a roof, at the bottom of the supports for the rooftop deck handrail, and at the edge of the steps that come out of the extension (see attachment). The deck, which is on top of a small extension at the rear of the house, is an area of concern for me because it looks like just TPO roofing which I don't think you're supposed to walk on that much. They also did the drain holes poorly, so the water just trickles down over the side of the building (leading to the soffit damage). edit: inspections noted historical termite damage but there was a chemical tag and no current activity so assuming that's ok.
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Sep 7, 2023 19:10
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Pham Nuwen posted:edit: inspections noted historical termite damage but there was a chemical tag and no current activity so assuming that's ok.
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Sep 7, 2023 19:20
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Pham Nuwen posted:Opening it up was in reference to fungus at the corner of a roof, at the bottom of the supports for the rooftop deck handrail, and at the edge of the steps that come out of the extension (see attachment). I had (have) lots of anxiety around house buying, and learning what is wrong with the house after buying it. We have a roof top deck that was old and parts were rotting. We have been fixing it up, and it's now kinda fun, if a lot of work. When the roof was open that was high anxiety, and I feel we hit the jackpot with finding a good carpenter and roofer. Also, seconding what Kaiser is saying, we could have left things alone another year or 3 and not changed much, so pick your time to initiate battles
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Sep 7, 2023 20:20
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Epitope posted:I had (have) lots of anxiety around house buying, and learning what is wrong with the house after buying it. We have a roof top deck that was old and parts were rotting. We have been fixing it up, and it's now kinda fun, if a lot of work. When the roof was open that was high anxiety, and I feel we hit the jackpot with finding a good carpenter and roofer. Also, seconding what Kaiser is saying, we could have left things alone another year or 3 and not changed much, so pick your time to initiate battles I am finding that I have a poo poo-load of anxiety about this whole process -- I never used to consider myself "anxious", used to make pretty big decisions immediately, I swear it's a disease some of us gave ourselves with cellphones... Anyway I guess I'm partly all keyed up by poo poo online that makes it sound like the instant a branch touches your house, dry rot will spring to the eaves and immediately permeate the entire structure, causing it to crumble within days. I suppose if I step back and look at some of the poo poo still standing in places like Alameda, where some hippies bought a house in the 60s for $1000, hung a Dylan poster in the window, and then just kinda left it alone for the next 50 years... there's perhaps not quite as much urgency as inspectors make it sound.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:22
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Day 3, adventures continue. Biggest finds today were several ancient mice nests including two mummified mice, and this lovely buried splice that had to be original construction: I'll leave it to the reader to guess how much PPE was involved in the demo including mice feces and mortar dust.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:31
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After several years of seeing and realizing what's in my house I don't even change the AC filter without an N95 mask on now.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:34
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This one reminds me of one of the findings in my basement, the best "you tried" of all the wiring connections I found:  But my funniest find in my 50s house happened when I pulled out a 3-pronged receptacle (missing the ground of course) and found THE CLAW  When I peeled back whatever the hell that plasterized tape was, it seemed like there was a prehistoric metal pigtail in the middle. So, that whole loving run was basically live, only protected by that castified tape older than I am. Pretty sure the previous homeowner had a computer plugged into there.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:45
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Quotes signed and deposits sent, we're getting a generator that can power the house and a kitchen that can make toast and coffee at the same time!
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Sep 7, 2023 22:13
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Shifty Pony posted:Quotes signed and deposits sent, we're getting a generator that can power the house and a kitchen that can make toast and coffee at the same time!  think I’m gonna wire my transfer kit and interlock next weekend since I’m finally done with furniture
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Sep 7, 2023 22:29
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Pham Nuwen posted:Yeah, it's the SF Bay area (well, the Tri-Valley) so things are still pretty hot. If that's the extent of it, and it appears you have strapping? I wouldn't worry too much. Get a contractor in there to fix it if it's really not connected. It's the inspectors job to find nit picks to justify their existence via getting you credits. Opening volley is 100% of all safety concerns as a credit. Go from there. Arsenic Lupin posted:I can't advise you on whether to pull out of this house, although H110Hawk sounds sensible and informed to me. I can tell you that any not-brand-new house you buy will have something significant come up on the inspection. The anxiety is going to be there, and you have to roll with it. Also I don't know anything. How dare you.  But yeah anxiety is VERY real. Talk to someone you trust about it in real life. Make sure you can get insurance. And 200a upgrade isn't necessary unless you are looking at a busted fire hazard panel as they said.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:29
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We got a quote to replace the (externally) corroded portions of the galvanized pipe. They say they'll replace the water heater lines with copper from the heater to the crawlspace, then use PEX to connect to the existing "ok" galvanized. Similarly they'll cut out 3 feet of corroded galvanized which has a leak and replace it with PEX. Question is, can you really tie PEX into (presumably still old but not showing rust) galvanized like that?
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Sep 8, 2023 00:16
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Pham Nuwen posted:Question is, can you really tie PEX into (presumably still old but not showing rust) galvanized like that? Yes. This is 100% a common thing that works fine when done by someone using the appropriate materials and techniques. It is not rocket science. It's hardware store level parts and handyman level knowledge.
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Sep 8, 2023 00:18
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Pham Nuwen posted:We got a quote to replace the (externally) corroded portions of the galvanized pipe. They say they'll replace the water heater lines with copper from the heater to the crawlspace, then use PEX to connect to the existing "ok" galvanized. Similarly they'll cut out 3 feet of corroded galvanized which has a leak and replace it with PEX. This is a real half measure though if all the galvanized is the same age. Also assume the heater is filled with galvanized crud. Isn't that fun?
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Sep 8, 2023 00:25
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H110Hawk posted:This is a real half measure though if all the galvanized is the same age. Also assume the heater is filled with galvanized crud. Isn't that fun? If it's external corrosion that's not necessarily the case. Water chemistry matters.
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Sep 8, 2023 00:37
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