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Edward is probably my favorite shounen protagonist. But I still enjoy the Goku-style "pure of heart, dumb of rear end" archetype. The problem with Dragon Ball isn't really Goku, it's more that it Deku might be what I wanted Gohan to turn into after Cell. Nerd who doesn't really enjoy fighting, but does it anyway because he's good at it want wants to protect his loved ones. Hell, they even have similar mothers and dead fathers.
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Sep 20, 2023 06:22
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Mymla posted:Edward is probably my favorite shounen protagonist. But I still enjoy the Goku-style "pure of heart, dumb of rear end" archetype. The problem with Dragon Ball isn't really Goku, it's more that it
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Sep 20, 2023 06:36
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NikkolasKing posted:HxH is a big one I've missed, mainly because I've been told forever it will never be finished and after ASOIAF, I try to avoid getting invested in storis that will never have a satisfying resolution. I'd recommend watching the anime. It reaches a natural conclusion to the story. TBH after continuing with the manga, nothing since then has really felt like it justifies the series continual drip-feed of content so ending where the anime does is perfectly satisfying.
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Sep 20, 2023 08:36
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Nephthys posted:I'd recommend watching the anime. It reaches a natural conclusion to the story. TBH after continuing with the manga, nothing since then has really felt like it justifies the series continual drip-feed of content so ending where the anime does is perfectly satisfying. Wrong. The post anime fight is sick.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:26
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if you want a classic anime/manga with a protagonist that doesn't act like most other shonen protagonists, read Ashita no Joe. Joe Yabuki is one of the best written and most unique shonen protags i've ever interacted with
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Sep 20, 2023 15:38
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Kild posted:Wrong. The post anime fight is sick. It's a really cool fight but it can basically be read as a coda to the story and not really lose anything. The new arc of HxH is fun but honestly the tree meeting is a basically perfect place for the story to end in that it neatly closes Gon's story while leaving the rest of the world still going on their adventures. If we ever get the rest of HxH (we won't) it'll be fun to read but I doubt we're going to see Gon as a major part of the story ever again unless someone takes over after Togashi's spine dissolves into a Dragon Quest slime.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:45
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Tampa Bae posted:Gohan was the nerd who had a mom that wanted him to be an intellect and two fathers who wanted him to be the ultimate fighter, and like any reasonable kid did in his situation he did neither, though Piccolo was probably the dad that encouraged him to just start a family Gohan's definitely an intellectual though? (maybe Super spoilers?) He's like an adjunct professor or something like that, he just also fights.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:48
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Why read HxH when you can read a book instead?
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Sep 20, 2023 15:50
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tbp posted:if you want a classic anime/manga with a protagonist that doesn't act like most other shonen protagonists, read Ashita no Joe. Joe Yabuki is one of the best written and most unique shonen protags i've ever interacted with On that note, Eyeshield 21 is a good read for having a twerpy, cowardly nerd as the protagonist (who goes on to grow into a strong, confident player). Dr. Stone (same writer -- Riichiro Inagaki) features a brilliant scientist with eidetic memory and absolutely zero physical prowess or luck. I found both to be really refreshing characters after years of Goku-likes.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:58
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Scholtz posted:Why read HxH when you can read a book instead? Because it also has a ton of incredibly effective visuals which also convey the storyline and world?   
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Sep 20, 2023 16:04
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The degree of words per page has definitely increased in the most recent arc. It's extremely noticeable and an entirely valid criticism imo. Also the Hisoka vs Chrollo fight sucked, sorry not sorry.
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Sep 20, 2023 16:09
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Scholtz posted:Why read HxH when you can read a book instead? Yeah and HxH is still an all time classic and peak shonen. Mad?
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Sep 20, 2023 16:13
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You could also just read YuYu Hakusho, it's by the same mangaka and has all the HxH characters you could want! (It's also just way better than HxH but that's not saying much.)
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Sep 20, 2023 16:16
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I've yet to see a tournament arc I liked more than the Dark Tournament
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Sep 20, 2023 16:30
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I know there's a lot of baggage now because of the mangaka but I always found Kenshin a very unique protagonist, too. He's also defined by having a keen, tactical mind, and he starts the series as one of the best fighters around instead of going from zero to hero. I dunno if Vash counts but he's also a favorite of mine. I really like his "typical dumbass hero" thing is just a very, very fake persona and he's an extremely intelligent, capable figure.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:07
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Huh, never really thought about it but AFO could totally use Overhaul's quirk to fix his body. Of course, it would probably take a lot of time and effort to master the quirk to that extent. Also might be dangerous somehow. given he has multiple quirks? No idea on that front but Overhaul and Eri only had one while deconstructing and reconstructing your body when you are overflowing with quirks might be more complicated process somehow.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:26
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NikkolasKing posted:I know there's a lot of baggage now because of the mangaka but I always found Kenshin a very unique protagonist, too. He's also defined by having a keen, tactical mind, and he starts the series as one of the best fighters around instead of going from zero to hero. Kenshin was fun but yeah it's hard to really enjoy it anymore considering the artist's crimes and the fact so many of his mangaka friends tried to defend him over it. It's one of those where even if you are 'divorce the artist from the art' it's kinda hard when the art is so connected.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:45
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My favorite smartman protagonist was always Kiyomaro from Gash/Zatch Bell. He has all the qualities of the shonen rival character: A polymath, super serious in a goofy-rear end world, and he thinks friends are for losers. But it makes for some cool fights where he gets to show his stuff and bring out the best in everyone else. I think this conversation has helped me realize that man I am tired of the usual energetic positive Goku-rear end characters and I'm happy to hear about these other examples.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:55
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ImpAtom posted:considering the artist's crimes I don't know the facts about this and yet I have to assume it's awful sex crimes.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:59
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Bleck posted:I don't know the facts about this and yet I have to assume it's awful sex crimes. Pedophile.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:01
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Bleck posted:I don't know the facts about this and yet I have to assume it's awful sex crimes. Involving children, yes.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:01
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god loving drat it
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Sep 20, 2023 18:02
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tbp posted:if you want a classic anime/manga with a protagonist that doesn't act like most other shonen protagonists, read Ashita no Joe. Joe Yabuki is one of the best written and most unique shonen protags i've ever interacted with  
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Sep 20, 2023 18:03
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Ok ok he may have had "about a hundred" child pornography DVDs, but he's an incredibly talented mangaka and did his time (paid a $1500 fine.)
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Sep 20, 2023 18:08
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Look it's no big deal, who of us hasn't done something a little illegal. He's fine. Anyway read the newest chapter of my manga 'One Piece', tomorrow!
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Sep 20, 2023 18:14
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Look it's no big deal, who of us hasn't done something a little illegal. He's fine. Anyway read the newest chapter of my manga 'One Piece', tomorrow! It was so hosed when the Kenshin guy had an art exhibit after he was arrested and I think the only big SJ name that didn't write him some congratulatory message for it was Tite Kubo.
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Sep 20, 2023 19:46
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HellCopter posted:My favorite smartman protagonist was always Kiyomaro from Gash/Zatch Bell. He has all the qualities of the shonen rival character: A polymath, super serious in a goofy-rear end world, and he thinks friends are for losers. But it makes for some cool fights where he gets to show his stuff and bring out the best in everyone else. I think this conversation has helped me realize that man I am tired of the usual energetic positive Goku-rear end characters and I'm happy to hear about these other examples. I need to read the manga for this series sometime. I think the last time I tried, I stopped reading a little after the Zofise vs. Brago fight. It's a rad series, though, and apparently has a sequel out now.
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Sep 20, 2023 20:51
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Electric Phantasm posted:It was so hosed when the Kenshin guy had an art exhibit after he was arrested and I think the only big SJ name that didn't write him some congratulatory message for it was Tite Kubo. I already liked Tite Kubo and I like him more now.
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Sep 20, 2023 20:59
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I need to read the manga for this series sometime. I think the last time I tried, I stopped reading a little after the Zofise vs. Brago fight. It's a rad series, though, and apparently has a sequel out now. It's very good and manages to keep its pacing and incredible character writing all the way to the end
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Sep 20, 2023 21:51
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Gash Bell is exactly this sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikGvLUbOuU Except for the entire length of the series. This isn't a criticism necessarily but whew boy do a lot of characters make bad first impressions and then end up awesome.
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Sep 20, 2023 21:57
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Think Momon’s the only one that fits that description?
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Sep 20, 2023 22:02
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Folgore doesn't make the best first impression either.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:04
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Think Momon’s the only one that fits that description? I would say a huge majority of the cast, especially the demon kids, fall into the category in some degree. My primary example is Fulgore and Canchome who are the loving worst when introduced and the loving best by the series end. Hell I'd even argue Kiyomaru falls into that category too though since he's the protagonist he at least gets past it quick. At least when I read it my consistent feeling was "Oh god this person is intolerable" -> *time passes* -> "Oh man, I love that stupid fucker!"
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Sep 20, 2023 22:12
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ImpAtom posted:Gash Bell is exactly this sketch: This is just incorrect
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Sep 20, 2023 22:17
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If we're comparing shonen protags I always liked Maka Albarn. Just a big old nerd in the sense of "I've studied how to kick rear end and I have a lot of pent-up rage." Also kind of unique as a protagonist who decided that their "dark side" power-up wasn't worth it and ditched it.
Nephthys fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 22:26
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ImpAtom posted:I would say a huge majority of the cast, especially the demon kids, fall into the category in some degree. My primary example is Fulgore and Canchome who are the loving worst when introduced and the loving best by the series end. Hell I'd even argue Kiyomaru falls into that category too though since he's the protagonist he at least gets past it quick. Kanchome's funny.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:27
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Loved Yusuke and he's still one of my all time faves and a gold standard for shonen protagonists. Another I liked was Kenichi from HSDK. Home boy just wants to self improve and train to be best martial artist ever and even when told he has zero talent for martial arts, he STILL doesn't give up(he DOES have talent for hard work and discipline which are even BETTER to have*). * You see this in MMA where all the talent in the world means poo poo if you coast by on it or lack the discipline to make the most of it. It's what made Kenichi so likeable and kind of aspiring since he was just all hard work.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:30
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doomrider7 posted:Loved Yusuke and he's still one of my all time faves and a gold standard for shonen protagonists. Another I liked was Kenichi from HSDK. Home boy just wants to self improve and train to be best martial artist ever and even when told he has zero talent for martial arts, he STILL doesn't give up(he DOES have talent for hard work and discipline which are even BETTER to have*). The kind of silly thing about the "talent of hard work" stuff is that hard work/discipline is simply a prerequisite for top-tier athletics of any stripe. Everyone is training as much as safely possible, and talent ends up being the deciding factor. "Person coasting on talent" simply doesn't exist, and overtraining is bad (so you don't exactly want to bust your rear end constantly). Obviously that's a bit less inspirational in a shounen setting, but it's still a factor even there. In Hajime no Ippo, Ippo's hard work is often emphasized, but he's also an extremely talented boxer and acknowledged as such. The series begins with him beating a talented boxer who has been boxing since childhood with only 3 months of practice, and Ippo constantly picks up techniques faster than anyone else. Or for another of the more "realistic" sport mangas, Baby Steps features a protagonist who is extremely good technically. HellCopter posted:My favorite smartman protagonist was always Kiyomaro from Gash/Zatch Bell. He has all the qualities of the shonen rival character: A polymath, super serious in a goofy-rear end world, and he thinks friends are for losers. But it makes for some cool fights where he gets to show his stuff and bring out the best in everyone else. I think this conversation has helped me realize that man I am tired of the usual energetic positive Goku-rear end characters and I'm happy to hear about these other examples. Mostly agree, but Kiyomaro sheds the antisocial stuff pretty quickly. He's still great as a protagonist who is super smart and with a less openly friendly personality.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:48
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Ytlaya posted:The kind of silly thing about the "talent of hard work" stuff is that hard work/discipline is simply a prerequisite for top-tier athletics of any stripe. Everyone is training as much as safely possible, and talent ends up being the deciding factor. "Person coasting on talent" simply doesn't exist, and overtraining is bad (so you don't exactly want to bust your rear end constantly). BJ Penn is my frame of reference for the "Coasting on Talent". Guy was INSANELY talented and gifted in flexibility and athleticism, but was notorious for having "yes men" as part of his group who wouldn't push and he himself also had discipline and ego issues(basically he didn't work on his cardio)all of which culminated in his eventual down fall ironically to Frankie Edgar who was regarded are largely unremarkable in terms of skill set and ability outside of being very gutsy and not getting tired. The idea DOES exist and can crop up irl from time to time, but as things in sports have advanced it's just not there any more.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:56
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Ytlaya posted:The kind of silly thing about the "talent of hard work" stuff is that hard work/discipline is simply a prerequisite for top-tier athletics of any stripe. Everyone is training as much as safely possible, and talent ends up being the deciding factor. "Person coasting on talent" simply doesn't exist, and overtraining is bad (so you don't exactly want to bust your rear end constantly). Kinda makes me think of the FMA anime where Dante points out how equivalent exchange is a load of poo poo and Ed is just insanely more gifted than most people who spent years trying to pass the Sate Alchemist Exams. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv0cs2QPjfo Even as an anime fan, Dante is a pretty weak villain compared to Father. But this was a good scene. It's not about equal effort, it's about natural talent and not everybody can be Olympic Gold Medalists no matter how hard they train.
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Sep 21, 2023 00:02
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