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Star Platinum posted:"Crocodile used to be a woman" might turn out to be true, but I don't think it's going to be the entirety of his secret for two major reasons. First of all, it would be way too simple and obvious, and secondly, I don't think it makes sense for Crocodile to feel embarrassed or threatened by it. Say what you will about Oda's character designs and gender roles, but the series cast has its fair share of powerful women, both in terms of combat power and social position or military rank. The world of One Piece is not so misogynistic that Crocodile having been a woman would be considered a weakness or embarrassment in itself. I expect the secret to be some specific identity, position or past action that would cause him to lose face in the eyes of other pirates if it was revealed. Considering the fact that it's Ivankov who knows the secret and the similarities between Crocodile and Doflamingo, maybe he used to be a member of a prominent royal family, or even a Celestial Dragon, who was overthrown by the revolutionaries. hes probably recognizable as a notorious person that we’ve heard of somewhere in the story already…..my thoughts are on pirates though. hes a pirate for sure
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Sep 24, 2023 01:47
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oddium posted:look up kuina op I wonder if Kuina's story would be different these days.
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Sep 24, 2023 02:06
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Dawgstar posted:I wonder if Kuina's story would be different these days. It was completely unchanged in the live action despite it being the one thing I thought they'd change. So no.
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Sep 24, 2023 02:22
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Personally I like the theory that Croc got that gender switch in part to join up with Whitebeard, who rejected him anyway because the issue wasn't that Whitebeard refused to have a daughter but that he didn't like Croc.Larryb posted:Impossible, Luffy canonically has never shown romantic attraction to anyone (that I remember anyway) and thus would likely never gently caress. But then again, Goku somehow had two kids More importantly, Nami would never survive Hurricane Love long enough to have a kid. oddium posted:look up kuina op Kuina's argument was purely about swordsmanship. Seemingly focusing solely on the power style that she and Zorro seemed to train in. Theoretically she could have instead trained for technique like Brook's style. Either way, it was completely disregarding being a world shaking hakiwoman or fruit lady. Big Mom had been at the top for decades after all.
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Sep 24, 2023 02:44
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Also kuina was from a weird wano-ite island that for all we know could've been outcast for something
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Sep 24, 2023 02:57
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The thing with Kuina is that her entire trauma about being a woman came entirely from her dad just straight up telling her she's naturally weaker than men and can never be as good as them, something that's never really confronted cause she then dies a little while after and her dad just kinda shrugs it off, hands her sword to Zoro and spends the rest of the series nodding sagely when Zoro accomplishes something.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:26
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Ivankov helping Croco-boy with his transition will be incidental to the reveal of his true secret: he still has his hand.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:37
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Kild posted:It was completely unchanged in the live action despite it being the one thing I thought they'd change. So no. You get I meant if Oda wrote it today, I'm sure.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:41
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Kild posted:It was completely unchanged in the live action despite it being the one thing I thought they'd change. So no. Way to join in on LAOP erasure of One Piece's greatest villain, Down D Stairs.
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Sep 24, 2023 03:55
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There is some change in the LA Kuina stuff. She never mentions it being her father's opinion, so it comes across more as her personal fears rather than something told to her.
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Sep 24, 2023 04:04
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Drakkel posted:The thing with Kuina is that her entire trauma about being a woman came entirely from her dad just straight up telling her she's naturally weaker than men and can never be as good as them, something that's never really confronted cause she then dies a little while after and her dad just kinda shrugs it off, hands her sword to Zoro and spends the rest of the series nodding sagely when Zoro accomplishes something. I keep feeling like Smoker and Tashigi were meant to be much more present in the plot than they've ended up being, because without Tashigi and the ironic connection to his past, Zoro ends up not having much of a character arc after Lougetown besides "gets incrementally stronger as a swordsman with each major arc."
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Sep 24, 2023 04:08
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Star Platinum posted:"Crocodile used to be a woman" might turn out to be true, but I don't think it's going to be the entirety of his secret for two major reasons. First of all, it would be way too simple and obvious, and secondly, I don't think it makes sense for Crocodile to feel embarrassed or threatened by it. Say what you will about Oda's character designs and gender roles, but the series cast has its fair share of powerful women, both in terms of combat power and social position or military rank. The world of One Piece is not so misogynistic that Crocodile having been a woman would be considered a weakness or embarrassment in itself. I expect the secret to be some specific identity, position or past action that would cause him to lose face in the eyes of other pirates if it was revealed. Considering the fact that it's Ivankov who knows the secret and the similarities between Crocodile and Doflamingo, maybe he used to be a member of a prominent royal family, or even a Celestial Dragon, who was overthrown by the revolutionaries. I also think that the woman in One Piece Live Action is obviously Crocodile, but that doesn't mean anything about the manga. I know Oda had veto power over ideas in the live action, but maybe he just thought it was fun that the live action folks wanted to add that dimension to Crocodile in the show. Or else gender swap him completely for the show, as was my original idea in this discussion.
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Sep 24, 2023 04:09
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Dawgstar posted:You get I meant if Oda wrote it today, I'm sure. Oh I forgot the live action was 3 weeks ago.
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Sep 24, 2023 04:22
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Tree Reformat posted:I keep feeling like Smoker and Tashigi were meant to be much more present in the plot than they've ended up being, because without Tashigi and the ironic connection to his past, Zoro ends up not having much of a character arc after Lougetown besides "gets incrementally stronger as a swordsman with each major arc." Tbh most characters don’t have ongoing arcs, their deal generally extends to “Luffy saved my home, now I will die for him” or some other solid like “gave me a reason to live” or “will take me to my whale buddy, also kind of saved my immortal soul” where they have an end goal in mind but it’s not like, a thing they constantly grind for. Zoro’s backstory is the sparsest next to Usopp (who kinda is the outlier, being that his thing is “true bravery is stepping up when you’re scared shitless and hopelessly out of your depth) because he showed up in like Chapter 3. Which at least in Zoro’s case is a deliberate choice at this point, because Oda could have expanded a LOT more than he did in Wano.
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Sep 24, 2023 04:53
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zoro's character arc is becoming more and more loyal to luffy culminating in him being willing to give up his dream to keep the crew alive. you're crazy if you think he doesn't have an arc past loguetown. in the same way luffy ain't much of a captain until water 7 and becomes a real leader through those events. yes I just reread thriller bark
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Sep 24, 2023 05:56
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Live action changing it so that Arlong shows up at Baratie instead of Nami stealing the Merry results in either of two scenarios having to be true: 1: Nami swam back to Coco Village 2. Nami rode on Arlong's back
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Sep 24, 2023 06:50
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Remalle posted:Live action changing it so that Arlong shows up at Baratie instead of Nami stealing the Merry results in either of two scenarios having to be true: I mean, they are pirates, and the most powerful ones in the East Blue at that. They could have just stolen someone else's ship there, who could stop them?
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Sep 24, 2023 06:56
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Remalle posted:Live action changing it so that Arlong shows up at Baratie instead of Nami stealing the Merry results in either of two scenarios having to be true: Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the series is made 
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Sep 24, 2023 07:31
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IMO The strongest person in the world is actually Big Mom, she still hasn't been beaten, Kidd and Law just threw her in a hole. Last time someone tried that, she just kept walking, so this time they threw her into a deeper hole, but that only means it will take her longer to walk out. Luffy actually KO'd Kaido (though that wasn't a fair fight from the start and Kaido purposely got into a slugfest with Luffy, the world champion of slugging (go to AA kaido)) but Big Mom remains undefeated Even without these facts in evidence, she's at worst equal to Kaido. This is, of course, discounting any crazy World Government powerhouses that we've yet to meet. And before anyone says it, there's no way those bombs could have taken her out if there wasn't a smashed picture of mama caramel somewhere nearby
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Sep 24, 2023 09:15
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Big mom got KO’d by the fat dinosaur gyy
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Sep 24, 2023 10:18
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Dawgstar posted:I wonder if Kuina's story would be different these days. I feel like One Piece still has a weird stance on women even today. Tashigi was dramatically weaker than Zoro last time we saw her. Logically gender shouldn't really matter when Luffy can punch out a giant without haki, size is clearly irrelevant to strength in One Piece. But I don't feel that Oda has outright contradicted the stance that a normal woman can't be just as strong as a man. Big Mom is clearly an exception.
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Sep 24, 2023 10:28
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Collapsing Farts posted:Big mom got KO’d by the fat dinosaur gyy That was olin not big mom
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Sep 24, 2023 10:34
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I think the Ivankov thing and the fact that Crocodile has always has ambiguous presentation in the past (shown from behind at the execution, androgynous as a seraphim) is pretty good evidence for trans Croc theory. It might be harder to explain why it matters but you do have the angle with Crocodile hating Whitebeard (who doesn't allow women onto his crew) for unknown reasons.
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Sep 24, 2023 10:42
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Nephthys posted:I feel like One Piece still has a weird stance on women even today. Tashigi was dramatically weaker than Zoro last time we saw her. Logically gender shouldn't really matter when Luffy can punch out a giant without haki, size is clearly irrelevant to strength in One Piece. But I don't feel that Oda has outright contradicted the stance that a normal woman can't be just as strong as a man. Big Mom is clearly an exception. It's easy to look past because of the gimmick of "she's the most beautiful woman in the world" but those few times you get to see Hancock go all out it's made clear that she's an absolute powerhouse. That's still only one other example, of course, but it does feel like Oda has been trying to be a bit more progressive on this type of thing. In Wano itself, Robin and Black Maria ended up fighting each other, but it was made clear that Black Maria was extremely powerful, and Robin ended up DESTROYING her which was very loving cool.
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Sep 24, 2023 11:12
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Wii Spawn Camper posted:IMO The strongest person in the world is actually Big Mom, she still hasn't been beaten  Yeah she's been beaten. You probably mean to argue that she's not dead yet, but honestly that's up for debate too.
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Sep 24, 2023 11:52
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Jerusalem posted:It's easy to look past because of the gimmick of "she's the most beautiful woman in the world" but those few times you get to see Hancock go all out it's made clear that she's an absolute powerhouse. Tbh I think Oda just plain has a personal bias where he sees men attacking women (below 70) as wrong, so it kind of narrows the window of what we get to see out of enemy female combatants since they have to be weak enough to not just no-sell anything the Clima Tact can do (or get beat to poo poo beforehand, see: Ulti, Absolom). Except for Robin, but Black Maria was her first 1v1 since, what, Skypeia?
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Sep 24, 2023 13:13
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He could just make the clima tact kinda strong instead if that was an issue.
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Sep 24, 2023 13:42
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SyntheticPolygon posted:He could just make the clima tact kinda strong instead if that was an issue. So it's agreed, Nami gets Enel's Devil Fruit 
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Sep 24, 2023 13:51
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I think she should just have a powerful weather wand.
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Sep 24, 2023 14:04
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think she should just have a powerful weather wand. Same, tbh. I guess it is kinda powerful since it fused with an Emperor’s soul though.
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Sep 24, 2023 14:13
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jassa posted:Yeah she's been beaten. Disqualified due to being pushed out of bounds. They won on a technicality. They didn’t know the bombs would be there so they can’t claim credit for that. They didn’t win the battle of strength, the end of the fight is just “we need to push her into this hole or she’s definitely going to kill us and everyone else on the island in the next 2 seconds and it won’t matter if Luffy beats Kaido.” It’s almost the same method King used and I wouldn’t say “King beat Big Mom” even though he definitely won that encounter. Maybe it’s fairer to say I’m arguing that she’s undefeated in a battle of pure strength (that we’ve seen, but maybe Roger just pushed her into a hole on God Valley too, seems to happen to her a lot). She’s definitely not dead yet, Luffy promised to punch her out, I think she’ll come back at least once more so he can one shot her. Luffy always keeps his promises  I just love Big Mom
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Sep 24, 2023 16:06
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Nephthys posted:I feel like One Piece still has a weird stance on women even today. Tashigi was dramatically weaker than Zoro last time we saw her. Logically gender shouldn't really matter when Luffy can punch out a giant without haki, size is clearly irrelevant to strength in One Piece. But I don't feel that Oda has outright contradicted the stance that a normal woman can't be just as strong as a man. Big Mom is clearly an exception. Yeah, it feels like for example Robin being able to do Fishman Karate with her powers should be an even bigger deal but Monster Quartet doesn't sound as catchy as Monster Trio, I guess.
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Sep 24, 2023 16:12
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Wii Spawn Camper posted:Disqualified due to being pushed out of bounds. They won on a technicality. They didn’t know the bombs would be there so they can’t claim credit for that. They didn’t win the battle of strength, the end of the fight is just “we need to push her into this hole or she’s definitely going to kill us and everyone else on the island in the next 2 seconds and it won’t matter if Luffy beats Kaido.” It’s almost the same method King used and I wouldn’t say “King beat Big Mom” even though he definitely won that encounter. this man ate the cope cope fruit
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Sep 24, 2023 16:13
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That's like saying the Strawhats weren't defeated at Sabaody because they survived and returned stronger 2 years later. She lost, deal with it. Wii Spawn Camper posted:Luffy always keeps his promises Tell that to Ace.
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Sep 24, 2023 16:21
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Big Mom is Big Dead
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Sep 24, 2023 16:24
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I'm done with Big Mom Power Level posting, the facts are clear jassa posted:Tell that to Ace. Honestly I think Luffy did successfully rescue Ace, who then died a free man as a consequence of a choice that he freely made. Also this made me think about how Ace turned around ready to risk everything to defend Whitebeard's name, but then let Akainu punch through the Whitebeard tattoo on his back, because in that moment he decided to give up even Whitebeard in order to save Luffy. Good bro 
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Sep 24, 2023 16:47
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jassa posted:
He did rescue Ace. Not his fault it didn't take.
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Sep 24, 2023 16:55
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Ace had mush for brains, even Akainu was surprised his taunts worked
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Sep 24, 2023 17:02
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, it feels like for example Robin being able to do Fishman Karate with her powers should be an even bigger deal but Monster Quartet doesn't sound as catchy as Monster Trio, I guess. Jimbei makes it a quartet as is tbh
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Sep 24, 2023 17:06
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Monster Crew
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Sep 24, 2023 17:22
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