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Digging around, I think I've probably settled on visiting 10p Denver next week. Probably next Monday or Wednesday night for their open mat (would rather get a class in if my schedule allows, though). Have any of you been to that location? Did you like it? They seem pretty chill via email. I've never squared up with 10p folks before. Lore tells me to beware their physical flexibility.
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Sep 25, 2023 17:32
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Not me, but please give trip report. I like knowing about gyms in parts of the country I may be sent to.
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Sep 25, 2023 19:13
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as a thought experiment I thought of what could make grappling more fun and more accessible to watch. So I created: DEFENESTRATEGYS MORE BETTER GRAPPLING SYSTEM 8 meter square arena, 6 minute match with 2 minute ebi overtime rules if necessary. There will be a ten second penalty in overtime for each instance of a competitor pulling guard. Attire: loose Gi top, belt, pants/shorts up to grappler Victory conditions: Ippon level throw*, Submission, Ring Out**, pin***, and crowd displeasure**** Disallowed techniques: Uncontrolled Slamming/spiking, Striking, Jumping guard. Throws: Scissor Takedowns, Waki Gatame, Leg Entanglements that circle entirely around the leg. Submissions: grabbing wind pipe. * A throw with sufficient speed, sufficent force, where opponent lands mostly on their back, and the initiator of the technique either remains standing or continues the throw into a position past their opponents guard. Lifting an opponent from the guard position fully off of the floor will be considered an ippon. ** Ring out, if a standing opponent touches the outside of the ring or is thrown out of the ring it is an instant ippon. If during the course of ground work the person on bottom touches outside of the ring, the match will be halted, moved to the center, and restarted from the feet, person on bottom will receive a penalty, two penalties will be given an ippon. *** holding both of your opponents shoulders to the mat for a three count from outside of guard. **** If the crowd starts booing both players will be disqualified for being boring or terrible people which ever. Thoughts?
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Sep 25, 2023 19:45
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Don't disallow scissors, they own
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Sep 25, 2023 19:56
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You should be able to rip out your opponent's spine like sub zero
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Sep 25, 2023 20:04
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My last training sesh I tried to really focus on not being one of the dangerous white belts and just relaxing and moving with intention and focusing on just learning, and it was really fun! Then a teenage white belt who is on his high school's wrestling team pwned me super hard and we had a 15 min talk abt the history of grappling and bjj.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:06
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Sounds lhe sambo kinda? At least the uniform. Also why do folks hate guard pulling so much? Us old(er) folks benefit from it heavily. I want to get to the ground quickly and with as little impact as I can. Wrestling and judo are hell on my knees/back.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:25
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Don't disallow scissors, they own Eh. I get weirded out by scissor takedowns, because theres not really anything you can do about it to mitigate the danger of your opponent just saying gently caress it and blowing out the side of your knee even if you'll gladly take a back bump for it. I'll trust the majority of my training partners to execute it properly and with sense, but I wouldnt trust randos at a competition edit: sambo attire Yea, the idea is that in my opinion pants and shorts offer enough trade offs versus each other that I'd rather leave that part up to individuals edit: WRT guard pulling. From a self defense perspective: pulling guard is possibly the worst thing you can do you should always endeavor to be on top. From a I wanna watch grapple sports perspective: I really dislike how guard pulling slows poo poo down and if you pull guard properly there's really no risk for doing it. If someone winds up in guard I at least want to see a struggle for it to happen, or at the very least make it a "The guy thinks he's so good at guard that he'll risk some sort of handicap for it" kinda deal. From a I wanna grapple people for funsies perspective: Eh, I have no problem if OTHER people want to pull guard, but as the proverbial bigger, stronger, more handsome opponent I dislike that a not insignificant portion of the grappling community expects ME to be the one to pull guard 100% in the gym. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 20:30
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What does "leg entanglement that circles completely around the leg mean"? Let people pull guard. Just force them to have at least 1 grip first and pull into an attack (or sacrifice throw). Aggressive guard and passing matches are way more exciting than two dudes standing up and trading grips for 15 minutes. Still disallow jumping guard for injury reasons. If you want "realism" just do/watch MMA.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:21
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Xguard86 posted:What does "leg entanglement that circles completely around the leg mean"? basically bans this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vElhU7dJSrE and people being really lovely with ouchigari by snaking the leg around so you go front ankle to front ankle. quote:Aggressive guard and passing matches are way more exciting than two dudes standing up and trading grips for 15 minutes. I agree, but as the IBJJF shows you, what happens is "guard pull into stalling out for five minutes and a win by advantage", and it's not banning the guard pull at all, it just punishes you very slightly in over time if you decide to do it. Xguard86 posted:If you want "realism" just do/watch MMA. I did, and then I got too many concussions  , and if I REALLY wanted realism I'd just watch UFC 1-4 on repeat and street beefs, but I don't I just want to watch interesting grappling in the gi.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:40
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Defenestrategy posted:as a thought experiment I thought of what could make grappling more fun and more accessible to watch. So I created: I think sumosambojudocatch sounds friendlier as a spectator sport than any current system. I'd get rid of crowd displeasure because I think every sport is better when someone knows how to play heel, and with that many possible win conditions I think you'll have a dynamic game no matter what. I'd rather say to make some kind of specific anti-stall rules. Like, if you're in whatever position, you have 45 seconds to do something or the match goes back to the feet.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:01
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Xguard86 posted:
Couple things on this: - There is a proper way of jumping guard that does not involve a possibility of injury to either opponent but unfortunately it just isnt taught much. - Mismatch in sizes for practicing the move often involve injury, esp. amongst white belts. - Jumping guard is merely a way to break posture, and helps reinforce the concept of breaking posture. Im not a fan of throwing it out the window.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:47
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The problem with jumping guard is that the only way uke can protect himself in the possibility that tori fucks up jumping guard is to pancake the poo poo out of their opponent.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:58
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the person jumping can do everything "right" but if the other person missteps and their knee is in the wrong orientation it can go very wrong, that's why so many injuries occur
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Sep 26, 2023 00:13
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Does anyone else know that some well-known grappler has some neat stuff you can learn from their youtube channel, but you just can't get into it because they seem on a personal level like a dumb rear end in a top hat?
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Sep 26, 2023 00:33
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Defenestrategy posted:basically bans this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vElhU7dJSrE and people being really lovely with ouchigari by snaking the leg around so you go front ankle to front ankle. Boy that's nasty.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:34
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Sherbert Hoover posted:Does anyone else know that some well-known grappler has some neat stuff you can learn from their youtube channel, but you just can't get into it because they seem on a personal level like a dumb rear end in a top hat? That doesn’t narrow it down too much
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Sep 26, 2023 03:01
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A shorter list is a cool dude who shows dumb poo poo.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:12
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butros posted:That doesn’t narrow it down too much Well I figured "judoka" would be too narrow
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Sep 26, 2023 03:12
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Xguard86 posted:Boy that's nasty. the worst part is that when you have footsweep fights happening with attack-counter-countercounter, people just kinda end up in that position sometimes. It's probably the most common major penalty at low-level tournaments. Can just totally gently caress the knee. Was banned from competition like 50 years before the flying scissors.
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Sep 26, 2023 03:15
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I've got my third Judo tournament Oct 29th, so my (BJJ) coach offered to do Judo style stand up work with me after class most nights. I recorded the first session and I'd appreciate any feedback or advice: https://youtu.be/ZvwxNVqZIhE?feature=shared I should set the stage by saying the advice I'm already getting from my Sensei is 1) attack more 2) commit in my attacks 3) don't wait around when I have dominant grips, attack. I'm trying, but it's slow going, and I'd welcome any additional feedback on specific sequences where those problems are particularly highlighted (I see a few myself), or anything else you see. I swear I don't normally throw myself down to avoid being thrown, I was just thinking about Judo tournament rules. Also, my coach doesn't do Judo so we don't really need to dwell on stalling, illegal grips, etc.
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Sep 26, 2023 14:22
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Sherbert Hoover posted:Does anyone else know that some well-known grappler has some neat stuff you can learn from their youtube channel, but you just can't get into it because they seem on a personal level like a dumb rear end in a top hat? No, though I find speaking style matters. If the technique is good and well-explained I'll listen to anyone.
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Sep 26, 2023 14:52
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The two biggest things where there where sections where you had a dominant grip and the instructor had basically nothing, you should basically start spamming attacks as much as your stamina will allow, also beware "judo jabbing", where because theres no kizushi youre just kicking your partner in the leg instead of getting off a de ashi barai, it just burns your stamina and might lead you to getting counter swept with swallow reversal or ouchi/kouchi. A minor thing, is that regardless of how neat a takedown is always endeavor to flip to turtle just incase the referee is blind and only awards wazari. There was one takedown in there you might have gotten away with a wazari if you flipped to turtle, but because you didnt roll out a dumb ref might award ippon. Also the gym you practice in is very nice and your instructor has a beautiful ouchi gake. Edit: something else, when he gets the georgian grip at 3:50 you need to step in and hip up into t position to stop his uchimata spam and uranage the crap out of him. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Sep 26, 2023 |
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Sep 26, 2023 14:59
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ditto on if you have dominant grip and opponent has nothing attack now. I feel like you're a bit too accepting of the gripping situations you're finding yourself in. A big one I saw was there were a few where you were LVR and he had inside position on you and you just kinda accepted it. in a situation like that drop your elbow inside, frame with a forearm shield, and start knocking him around to attack. I'm starting to see the value of having well-drilled attack pathways. Like, if your throw is uchi mata, grip to get an uchi mata. Lately for randori I'm telling people "choose two throws. You're only allowed to go for minor ashi waza + those." Another thing I saw is that you overreact to ashi waza here and there. I might just be seeing this because it's an attack pattern that I like (and which I'm drilling), but more than a couple times a little swat with the foot sent your hips and feet back while your upper body stayed forward, which leaves you really vulnerable to tai otoshi or uchi mata sending you forward by just pulling your head a bit farther foward. Similar for leaning on your partner.
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Sep 26, 2023 15:18
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Jack B Nimble posted:I've got my third Judo tournament Oct 29th, so my (BJJ) coach offered to do Judo style stand up work with me after class most nights. I recorded the first session and I'd appreciate any feedback or advice: There are many moments where your coach has no grips on you and therefore cannot really stop you from attacking, but you're not attacking. You should be attacking. What is your favorite technique? I also see a lot of attempts at low commitment things that make you seem hesitant. Reaching for a high collar grip with your right hand while stepping in with your right foot will get you into trouble one day. (I once lost a match in 10 seconds because of this, which is why I'm so sensitive to it, but there are multiple things that kind of work off of that, including what my old BJJ gym called 'sticky-foot'). You also read as hesitant to grip up, even though to me, gripping is what stops those nasty wrestlers from touching my precious legs. Of course, some of this might be you being intimidated of playing against your coach.
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Sep 26, 2023 15:24
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Defenestrategy posted:The problem with jumping guard is that the only way uke can protect himself in the possibility that tori fucks up jumping guard is to pancake the poo poo out of their opponent. And this is how jiu jitsu gets watered down. Every video I have seen where a guard pull injury goes wrong, the person performing the guard pull is too far away from the opponent and a lead leg is landed upon. Also, it always seems to involve white belts. Tacos Al Pastor fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 26, 2023 |
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Sep 26, 2023 15:42
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Thanks all, that's about what I figured but it's still useful to hear it from other people, and some of those specifics I hadn't noticed. Regarding the need to attack, I don't "see" the dominant gripping situation most of the time, so I'm trying to male myself attack when they feel merely equal, because if I want for dominant grips I think I end up waiting for something perfect. I'm hoping my awareness of the grips gets better with time. Regarding my gripping, I generally think it's pretty good, but I'm probably gun shy with that instructor in particular because, in BJJ stand up, he's developed a habit of immediately blasting an attack as soon as I reach for him, like a single leg or that Ouchi Gake, and it's made me get a little more stand offish until our grips settle down. So, the four things I'm going to try to do more of will be to spam attacks more, don't accept his grips as much, don't waste as much time and energy on ashi waza with no kuzushi, and always be turning to turtle when thrown. Tonight is no gi but I should be able to get another round of tachi waza with him. Hell I guess I could just bring a jacket anyway, I'll message him about that.
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Sep 26, 2023 16:07
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I wanted to ramble about a type of training partner that I really dislike, the Isometrically Strong Staller. This is a guy, usually a lower belt, very very strong, sometimes older with 'old man' strength', who treats training rolls very seriously and wants to win. They like to reach 'checkpoints' and just squeeze all their strong muscles for as long as possible to stay in the position and/or deny you what you want next. Of course, the answer is just to wait for them to gas themselves out, but when training rounds are 3-4 minutes long, it sucks to spend 80% of it stuck in a freaking body triangle from closed guard with the guy just trying to snap your ribs with his thighs. Do a move!
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Sep 26, 2023 16:09
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Jack B Nimble posted:I've got my third Judo tournament Oct 29th, so my (BJJ) coach offered to do Judo style stand up work with me after class most nights. I recorded the first session and I'd appreciate any feedback or advice: You need throw combinations.
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Sep 26, 2023 16:12
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Pron on VHS posted:I wanted to ramble about a type of training partner that I really dislike, the Isometrically Strong Staller. This is a guy, usually a lower belt, very very strong, sometimes older with 'old man' strength', who treats training rolls very seriously and wants to win. They like to reach 'checkpoints' and just squeeze all their strong muscles for as long as possible to stay in the position and/or deny you what you want next. Of course, the answer is just to wait for them to gas themselves out, but when training rounds are 3-4 minutes long, it sucks to spend 80% of it stuck in a freaking body triangle from closed guard with the guy just trying to snap your ribs with his thighs. Do a move! It isn't bad for them. I remember being thrilled as a white belt when I held a blue in my closed guard for an entire round. He admonished me, but it meant he wasn't destroying me so I was still happy. So long as it's only a stage they do through it's ok. Still, you can do things like tripod up and plant your head in his jaw. You might as well pressure him back.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:04
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If talking to him or just resting for the entire time until he feels foolish doesn't work, try an Ezekiel, it's my go to "I'm just going to attack you for no reason other than to force a response".
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Sep 26, 2023 17:09
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^^ yeah that's a better response Things like americas from inside closed guard can also occasionally work against someone intent on not moving.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:15
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Also, if you can keep your posture and win the grips, there's no guard you can't start to unravel. But I get it, someone who just wants to stall for minutes at a time can do a lot to stifle you and neither of you learn much, it sucks.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:22
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:And this is how jiu jitsu gets watered down. Anecdotally it happened to a purple belt at my gym at the Atlanta Open a few years back in the same situation you're describing. I've also seen it happen to people not from my gym in comp at blue and brown. So yea, its far more common at white, but anyone can perform a move super sloppily when they're tired and want to win a comp and aren't thinking straight. The difference between say, a single leg, an armbar, even a heel hook or a neck crank and guard jumping, scissor throws, or even tani otoshi, is that performing the move wrong unintentionally doesn't yield an injury unless you're doing something willfully stupid like kicking someone in the face while doing it, while in the later case doing the move wrong on accident will probably lead to an injury to one party or the other.
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Sep 26, 2023 17:33
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Count Roland posted:It isn't bad for them. I remember being thrilled as a white belt when I held a blue in my closed guard for an entire round. He admonished me, but it meant he wasn't destroying me so I was still happy. So long as it's only a stage they do through it's ok. +1 to pressuring them back. Overall trick with that type of roll is to make them very uncomfortable in whatever position they're hanging onto. Should be doable if you're on top. gravity. they'll move or slacken a bit and you can work. If not, at minimum you're working on your top pressure, so not a waste of a round.
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Sep 26, 2023 18:22
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Defenestrategy posted:Anecdotally it happened to a purple belt at my gym at the Atlanta Open a few years back in the same situation you're describing. I've also seen it happen to people not from my gym in comp at blue and brown. So yea, its far more common at white, but anyone can perform a move super sloppily when they're tired and want to win a comp and aren't thinking straight. The difference between say, a single leg, an armbar, even a heel hook or a neck crank and guard jumping, scissor throws, or even tani otoshi, is that performing the move wrong unintentionally doesn't yield an injury unless you're doing something willfully stupid like kicking someone in the face while doing it, while in the later case doing the move wrong on accident will probably lead to an injury to one party or the other. We worry a lot about these moves in lower belt amateur competitions: Tai Otoshi, Tani Otoshi, Jumping guard; but in reality, it looks more like a bell shaped curve with success of the move being on one side, injury being [ a smaller amount] on the other and the majority of the time failure in one way or another being the bulk of most attempts.
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Sep 26, 2023 20:57
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Pron on VHS posted:I wanted to ramble about a type of training partner that I really dislike, the Isometrically Strong Staller. This is a guy, usually a lower belt, very very strong, sometimes older with 'old man' strength', who treats training rolls very seriously and wants to win. They like to reach 'checkpoints' and just squeeze all their strong muscles for as long as possible to stay in the position and/or deny you what you want next. Of course, the answer is just to wait for them to gas themselves out, but when training rounds are 3-4 minutes long, it sucks to spend 80% of it stuck in a freaking body triangle from closed guard with the guy just trying to snap your ribs with his thighs. Do a move! The dude stalling in closed guard who is not attempting anything, is learning nothing. He should open his guard and move. If I were his instructor I would literally tell him this. Jiu Jistu is the art of movement, not stalling.
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Sep 26, 2023 20:59
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Jack B Nimble posted:Thanks all, that's about what I figured but it's still useful to hear it from other people, and some of those specifics I hadn't noticed. Regarding the need to attack, I don't "see" the dominant gripping situation most of the time, so I'm trying to male myself attack when they feel merely equal, because if I want for dominant grips I think I end up waiting for something perfect. I'm hoping my awareness of the grips gets better with time. Regarding my gripping, I generally think it's pretty good, but I'm probably gun shy with that instructor in particular because, in BJJ stand up, he's developed a habit of immediately blasting an attack as soon as I reach for him, like a single leg or that Ouchi Gake, and it's made me get a little more stand offish until our grips settle down. The exact feeling your instructor gives you -- that if you get too close you get attacked so you don't get too close -- this is the feeling you want other people to have. To me (and this may be #heavyweightthings), my grips are a great source of comfort: they let me feel what my opponent is doing, control my opponent, and slow them down enough to get my body into position to block attacks. I'm tall, and it's much much easier for people to shoot if I'm not gripped up, so I aggressively pursue grips. I learned in a time before video and don't have any particular instructionals to recommend, but generally if my right foot is forward I reach with my left hand. You can use your left hand to feed to your right hand if you want. A big difference between BJJ and Judo is that standing, it's difficult to get the same kind of control over your opponent that you can get on the ground, so dominant gripping situation is very different. The opportunity to attack in Judo appears and disappears in an instant, and your body has to be ready to explode into your attack the moment you feel or create that opportunity. Generally, judo players will pick a 'tokui-waza', or 'pet/favorite technique' and heavily specialize in that, so you'll eventually get to a position where you feel confident in attacking, and you'll be able to instantly feel the moment the opportunity opens. Good luck with your tournament!
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Sep 27, 2023 14:10
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Does anyone else feel like their problems with being outgripped all come down to not being able to analyze what is going on in time? I often have the feeling of being outgripped but afterwards I'm not even able to recall how I was being gripped, just the feeling of knowing I couldn't turn or reach them, and I feel like I'm not getting any better because I didn't learn any lessons.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:01
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Sherbert Hoover posted:Does anyone else feel like their problems with being outgripped all come down to not being able to analyze what is going on in time? I often have the feeling of being outgripped but afterwards I'm not even able to recall how I was being gripped, just the feeling of knowing I couldn't turn or reach them, and I feel like I'm not getting any better because I didn't learn any lessons. Absolutely, if you can't tell what's happening it's going to be very hard to get better. My ability to grip got so much better with Judo, even before I took classes and was watching Shintaro videos, just because it gave me an understanding of the dynamics of gripping - what was a good grip, what was a bad grip, and what could I do about it. Someone here once described the process of learning a new move, and I think about it all the time. It was something like: 1) You get shown the move, have it explained to you, and drill it. Then, you go to roll, and only afterwards do you even realize that opportunity for the move had presented itself. 2) You're in a roll, probably losing, and realize you should have tried the move earlier in the roll to not be in this predicament 3) You're in a roll, you see the chance for the move, but the moment passes before you can try it. 4) You see your chance, try the move, and it's a bad attempt and you fail. 5) Finally, you see that the opportunity is coming, get ready to do the move, and perform a sloppy version that mostly succeed. You've done it, you've done the move, and now you just need to spend the rest of your life improving it. What I'd stress about this five step system is that the majority of the steps don't even involve you doing the move, there's no physical sign or evidence that you're getting any better at the move. So, if you catch yourself regretting not doing XYZ in a roll, remember that's actually progress and you're on your way, the opportunities will start revealing themselves further and further in the future and you're going to start actually making attempts, just be patient.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:30
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