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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Egwene? Book 14 spoilers: Present tense. Exists.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:05
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pseudorandom name posted:Why in the world would you want to follow a Wheel of Time YouTuber? For the same reason I read and post in this thread. I like having other sets of eyes on a story that pick up on things I miss or have a good insight into something I like but was struggling to articulate.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:10
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Gwaihir posted:I'm sorry I've read a lot of insane stuff in this thread but I refuse to believe that there exists anyone who's a Gawyn fan That said, he does do good coverage about every tiny little tidbit of show news that gets leaked anywhere on the internet. So I will begrudgingly forgive him his small insanity.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:18
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I'm convinced that dude says he's a gawyn fan just to troll people by saying he's a gawyn fan.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:24
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seaborgium posted:I thought the effect for them was kind of iffy though. They did it for production reasons, sure. But they didn't really give the impression that they could destroy an army like they did in the books. Hell, at Falme Birgitte was riding a horse across the water and lighting ships on fire and sinking them with her arrows. They're magical heroes, just being badass fighters in one small area just seemed like a bad choice. You run into the problem of the Horn being too powerful and why don't they use it all the time. In LotR you have Aragorn accepting the magical ghost army's oaths were upheld and releasing the men of Dunharrow for character growth (and prevent future abuse), in the WoT books you have the Horn being tied to one person once blown and the Horn being separated from that person for "safekeeping" in Tar Valon, essentially inaccessible for multiple reasons. In the show they seem to have Amerasu take it away from Mat and also limit its power from summoning an army-defeating legion of Heroes to a small squad of magically-enhanced fighters - enough to tip the balance but not enough to fight off a horde alone. We'll see which way they go with the Horn next season I guess: either they have to find it again/win it back from Amerasu, or it's just (cuendillar) Seal Team Six
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Oct 6, 2023 20:27
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Egwene? 
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Oct 6, 2023 20:30
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This meme speaks to me
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Oct 6, 2023 20:48
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Reposting since I forgot which thread I was in. Ok, here's my pissing in the wind effort post about why pretty much nothing in the finale worked for me for the people who are genuinely curious. Spoilers for the season 2 finale. There's 2 angles to this, and I'll start with the T.V. show as a T.V. show. Rand, Lan, and Moiraine following Lanfear into the Ways at the end of last episode felt like a big dramatic cliffhanger about our heroes allying with the bad guys and how is that going to play out? Will it be morally ambigious? No, she just immediately boots everyone to Falme and disappears for the rest of the episode. Lanfear just loving off feels really underwhelming when compared to the horror show at the end of episode 4. The whole through-line of episode 6 was that Egwene can't attack Renna with a pitcher of water, but here she can collar her no problem. I know the response is going to be something like "Well maybe she wasn't thinking of the collar as a weapon" but that's literal nonsense because the whole point of the arc is how traumatic the experience was for her. Nynaeve and Elayne are just kind of there. Nothing really comes from their whole experience with Ryma and acquiring the collar. Ishamael comes off as an absolute fool. Firstly because he released Lanfear knowing she would probably betray him, and then they have a whole conversation about that where they feel like they're each trying to outwit the other, then he's just absolutely blindsided by her bringing Rand to Falme. Secondly because the whole confrontation where he launches fireballs at Egwene just looked really silly and contrasts poorly with his encounter with Moiraine last season. I've heard the theory that just like last time his real plan all along was to be killed, but at least in the season 1 finale he has that smirk as he disappears and the whole scene feels like something's off. Here it just feels triumphant for the heroes and so I don't really buy it. Also Rand seeming to easily kill him is again undercut by Lanfear being impossible to kill. I guess he balefire enchanted his sword or something but that scene was visually goofy so if that's the idea it didn't really land for me. There's more but that's probably enough to get the point across. The other angle is as a Wheel of Time fan I would like the characters to feel like the characters from the books and they just don't. Nynaeve being unable to heal someone because of her block is dead wrong. It's the 1 surefire situation where she can channel because people being injured makes her mad! Mat literally refuses to be bound by the horn in the books and here he apparently is one of the Heroes of the Horn. Rand has like a whole thing during the first 2 books about insisting that Tam is his father and he clings to the Heron marked sword as a connection to that past that he's fooling himself into believing he can maintain When it melts during the climactic battle it symbolizes his ability to finally let go and accept his destiny. Here the heron mark is just an Indiana Jones joke and the sword melting is meaningless. Perrin killed a couple random whitecloaks indiscriminately because he was in a wolfy berserker rage. Here he very specifically and purposefully tracked down and killed Bornhald. This is the kind of change I can kind of see the point of and maybe could be convinced is good, but because literally everything else feels wrong to me it's just another thing that I don't like.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:55
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arteliad posted:
Yes, it was very traumatic. I'm not sure why that means the collar would have stopped her from collaring Renna. As the oaths continually prove, there's no objective standpoint on what counts as a weapon, what is a lie, and so on. In fact everyone's reliance on these trappings constantly fucks them up. The seanchan have been relying on ter'angreal they don't actually understand for a thousand years. I'm about due for another re-read, but i'm pretty sure there are times in the books when Nyneave is more scared than angry, even when she needs to heal someone, and can't. Also the show is clearly making it less of a "That's the secret cap, i'm always angry" thing and into something more complicated to fit a more nuanced character (who's internal dialogue we can't hear). She even says "It's either there or it's not" which implies that she hasn't figured out the anger angle, or it's deeper routed than that and just being mad about stuff will often shortcut her block without being the root cause.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:06
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For what it’s worth, I agree with most of arteliad’s points. The show sometimes feels like it’s trying to hit a checklist of book-fan plot points while still adapting a sprawling work for TV, and it doesn’t always work out the balance correctly. The scripts really need another editing pass for internal consistency (as has already been pointed out regarding the a’dam and Renna here) and for “do we actually gain anything from this moment” (Ingtar, the random platoon of Seanchan that attack Moiraine and Lan, and numerous scenes from episode 7). That said, the improvement from season 1 to season 2 is marked. Remember that season 1 ended with Egwene pulling a Miracle Max and healing a burned-out Nynaeve back from mostly dead, a red-herring love triangle drama that is the bane of CainFortea’s existence, the reveal of the dragon pulled out of literally nowhere with no clues given prior (a completely unearned resolution to the season-long mystery), and the Seanchan army going “and gently caress you in particular” to that one girl on the beach—among others. I’m happy with the trajectory of the show quality overall, and looking forward to season 3 to see if that continues.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:12
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DOVIE'ANDI SE TOVYA SAGAIN Fuckin' lost it at that. Waited 30 years to see this on the screen. With one minor nitpick - Nynaeve would have been angry enough to channel, as others have pointed out, but I can see the rationale for that choice - I loved it. Had so much fun. Might do a rewatch.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:12
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Considering how much people have been complaining about Lan's lack of badass moments I'd say the soldiers on the beach were definitely needed
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Oct 6, 2023 21:18
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CuriousSymptoms posted:DOVIE'ANDI SE TOVYA SAGAIN
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Oct 6, 2023 21:23
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Still have lots of problems with the show (and the books), but I have to applaud them for engineering a way for the stuff with Mat's memories to actually make sense (unlike in the books, where it seems like there were a couple of retcons along the way). I know people wanted a real sword spear but they found a way for Mat to embrace destiny and seize power like the others have, so I'm fine with that change too because it finally gives the character some agency. The stuff with Rand's wound was sorta symbolic in the books but never given the weight or significance it deserved, so just making it a fuckup that will haunt them is kinda funny. The fight with Turak was awful--not because of the change, but because it was edited so poorly. They steal lines from the book without actually setting things up or convincing anyone that Turak is actually a swordmaster. This needed longer to simmer. The stuff with Ingtar is just as bad as everyone else has said, but I had no attachment to the darkfriend bit and it would have made no sense here.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:33
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Big Mutha Truckers 2 posted:Considering how much people have been complaining about Lan's lack of badass moments I'd say the soldiers on the beach were definitely needed arteliad's points are all my same nits plus a few more, but I did overall enjoy the episode and the quality of the season was leagues above 1. I'm hopeful for season 3 since it won't have to spend time fixing story issues caused by covid/cast replacement/etc.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:During the first season of the show the "bookcloak" types got kicked out of everywhere except wetlanderhumor, which allowed them to stay under a "equal jokes for all" theory. Unfortunately this developed into the nazi bar problem. R/aielhumor is am alternative. thanks for this. I like wheel of time memes and hate nazis
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Oct 6, 2023 21:36
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arteliad posted:Reposting since I forgot which thread I was in. You're not alone. I didn't think the finale was good but saying so makes me feel like a downer for those that like the show.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:36
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:You know, I'm just gonna point this out. I caught that too. But also I'm ok either way. Show good
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Oct 6, 2023 21:39
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thrawn527 posted:I loved everything about that finale. Holy poo poo. That was amazing. that's being a good neighbor  books are expensive and also the wheel of time books rule
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Oct 6, 2023 21:40
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Hughmoris posted:You're not alone. I didn't think the finale was good but saying so makes me feel like a downer for those that like the show. And that's ok! I appreciate reading all perspectives here even though I have really enjoyed the show, including negative ones.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:43
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CuriousSymptoms posted:DOVIE'ANDI SE TOVYA SAGAIN and yeah its fine to hate the show, everyone has their own opinions. Now I'm going to go reread the series for the 20th time. Audiobooks make it so easy to just always be rereading
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Oct 6, 2023 21:46
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not ashamed to admit that I had a full on snot in my beard cry about Hopper
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Oct 6, 2023 21:47
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Hughmoris posted:You're not alone. I didn't think the finale was good but saying so makes me feel like a downer for those that like the show. Nah I appreciate criticism when it's not just something people forgot from last week's episode or beaten to death like sad warders and character word counts.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:48
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I will say that there hasn't been nearly enough braid tugging or skirt smoothing so far for it to be truly a Wheel of Time adaptation
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Oct 6, 2023 21:53
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RC Cola posted:that's being a good neighbor I know, it was a joke about signing her up for the same misery we've all been in for years. I told her I even have them in hardcover. CuriousSymptoms posted:I will say that there hasn't been nearly enough braid tugging or skirt smoothing so far for it to be truly a Wheel of Time adaptation I gasped when they cut Egwene's braid.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:58
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arteliad posted:The whole through-line of episode 6 was that Egwene can't attack Renna with a pitcher of water, but here she can collar her no problem. I know the response is going to be something like "Well maybe she wasn't thinking of the collar as a weapon" but that's literal nonsense because the whole point of the arc is how traumatic the experience was for her. I don’t think it was ever addressed in the books whether a collared person could pick up another a‘dam or what would happen if a collared person collared the person wearing the bracelet. quote:Nynaeve and Elayne are just kind of there. Nothing really comes from their whole experience with Ryma and acquiring the collar. By the way, I found it a very good alternative to the spark/can learn to channel thing from the books to say that sul‘dam are simply super weak channelers. In the books, people with the spark are usually stronger than those who can learn. quote:Ishamael comes off as an absolute fool. Firstly because he released Lanfear knowing she would probably betray him, and then they have a whole conversation about that where they feel like they're each trying to outwit the other, then he's just absolutely blindsided by her bringing Rand to Falme. Secondly because the whole confrontation where he launches fireballs at Egwene just looked really silly and contrasts poorly with his encounter with Moiraine last season. I've heard the theory that just like last time his real plan all along was to be killed, but at least in the season 1 finale he has that smirk as he disappears and the whole scene feels like something's off. Here it just feels triumphant for the heroes and so I don't really buy it. quote:Also Rand seeming to easily kill him is again undercut by Lanfear being impossible to kill. I guess he balefire enchanted his sword or something but that scene was visually goofy so if that's the idea it didn't really land for me. quote:There's more but that's probably enough to get the point across. quote:Mat literally refuses to be bound by the horn in the books and here he apparently is one of the Heroes of the Horn. quote:Rand has like a whole thing during the first 2 books about insisting that Tam is his father and he clings to the Heron marked sword as a connection to that past that he's fooling himself into believing he can maintain. When it melts during the climactic battle it symbolizes his ability to finally let go and accept his destiny. Here the heron mark is just an Indiana Jones joke and the sword melting is meaningless. quote:Perrin killed a couple random whitecloaks indiscriminately because he was in a wolfy berserker rage. Here he very specifically and purposefully tracked down and killed Bornhald. This is the kind of change I can kind of see the point of and maybe could be convinced is good, but because literally everything else feels wrong to me it's just another thing that I don't like.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:00
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CuriousSymptoms posted:I will say that there hasn't been nearly enough braid tugging or skirt smoothing so far for it to be truly a Wheel of Time adaptation Ardlen fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 22:00
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I forgot to mention before how much I loved everything about Mogy showing up. I'm a little confused about how she can seemingly shield Lanfear? But relative power levels on the show fluctuate like the tides, so whatever. It was excellently terrifying for what comes next. Also, the "shielding" looked cool, with the spider webs.DTurtle posted:IMO the point of the whole arc was Egwene overcoming that traumatic experience, thereby learning her own strength, learning that she could forge her own path. In the White Tower she was always in the shadow of Nynaeve’s potential. With the Seanchan, she for the first time was the person in the spotlight. And even in episode 6 she didn’t break. The look on her face after hearing that she lasted longer than a Sitter showed that. It was driven home in episode 7 when she told Renna to her face that she would kill her. Then again in this episode when she stood up again and refused to kill innocent bystanders. Then again when she outlasted Renna choking to death. Then again when she immediately stood up to Ishamael not once, but twice. Agreed, everything about Egwene landed perfectly for me.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:06
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I don't like Perrin killing Bornhald because it changes Dain's entire character. His first appearance earlier in the season (and tbh most of the Whitecloak appearance in the finale) sets him up as a relatively honorable person who is somewhat likeable despite working for a bad organization, and his story in the books is that he blames Perrin for his father's death for years until eventually coming around to realize Perrin is a good person who did not nuke his dad, culminating in Dain killing another Child (and a friend) in Perrin's defense. Now it's like... Dain's right. Perrin did kill his dad and he has zero reason to ever forgive him because it happened right in front of Dain's eyes. He can eventually realize Perrin is ultimately good but he will always be the dude who hacked his father to death from behind and started going to town on the corpse. Of course they can just change Dain's arc for the show, but it's a massive fundamental departure from the books and I'm grumpy about it because I thought Dain's introduction set him up very well for his book arc to be pretty gripping.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:07
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My attention still wandered whenever Lan was onscreen most of the season, but it occurs to me that Lan being not badass only to get his mojo back with the warder bond and wreck all those Seanchan dudes (who yes shouldn't have been there, it made no sense) was probably deliberate.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:13
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Omnomnomnivore posted:My attention still wandered whenever Lan was onscreen most of the season, but it occurs to me that Lan being not badass only to get his mojo back with the warder bond and wreck all those Seanchan dudes (who yes shouldn't have been there, it made no sense) was probably deliberate. Yeah, Lan and Moiraine both kinda being dogshit or at least only at half strength all season without eachother seems deliberate in hindsight.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:16
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given how loving sick the heroes coming to fight was this episode, Hopper coming back and leading the wolf heroes at the last battle is probably going to have me full blown sobbing
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Oct 6, 2023 22:18
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Omnomnomnivore posted:My attention still wandered whenever Lan was onscreen most of the season, but it occurs to me that Lan being not badass only to get his mojo back with the warder bond and wreck all those Seanchan dudes (who yes shouldn't have been there, it made no sense) was probably deliberate. Of course it was. As you said, he got his mojo back, and they wanted to show it. That being said, I did find it weird how they had one archer on a cliff fire an arrow at him just to get the (admittedly cool) shot of him catching the arrow, just to have that archer disappear, because obviously Lan had no way to dispatch of said archer. I guess it was covered by Lan's later line, "They're retreating," but that was after a lot of Lan fighting. Maybe that archer only had one arrow? Whatever, this is minor CinemaSins bullshit. Just funny to me.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:18
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thrawn527 posted:Of course it was. As you said, he got his mojo back, and they wanted to show it. To be fair, if I fired an arrow at the back of a dude's head and he caught it in midair and then killed three other people on my team with it, I would just pack up and leave as well because it's clear I am an active hindrance to this battle and I am not doing poo poo against this unstoppable whirlwind of martial death before me.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:20
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thrawn527 posted:I know, it was a joke about signing her up for the same misery we've all been in for years. I told her I even have them in hardcover. I know friend <3 And yeah the braid cut got me harder than hopper getting axed. Actually my dog was next to me and I knew it was coming and I still sat there breathing heavily and petting my dog and my wife and to pull my hand away from my dog and tell me to breathe. I do not deal well with dog or dog adjacent death
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Oct 6, 2023 22:23
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Grundulum posted:a red-herring love triangle drama that is the bane of CainFortea’s existence Thank you for both calling me out by name while simultaneously conceding my point. It entertained me greatly while work was actively sucking. I appreciate that. Pleads posted:Sure but also it was done very stupidly. A squad runs at them from the opposite side of Falme for some reason, a bowman shoots exactly one arrow and never fires again, they generally only attack 1-2 at a time, etc. Foot patrols are kinda everywhere, that's how they work. Also he shot two arrows. I also wondered for a second where the archer went, then I realized he's a seanchan soldier. He knows what channeling looks like. It seems likely that he saw the melee get wiped out and then split to go report back.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:24
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Slanderer posted:
If I had control of direction I'd have cut down a lot of Lan and Moiraine unmasking the bond and loving around on the beach and showing Turak practicing the blade, maybe against two or three other blade masters. Probably not something that actor could've pulled off convincingly but it would've put more weight on that interaction and less on something that frankly didn't feel earned. NeurosisHead posted:not ashamed to admit that I had a full on snot in my beard cry about Hopper Definitely felt bad about Hopper but this reminds me of another nit: when Perrin tells Hopper to stay like a good doggy instead of it being a conversation between equals. It should have been Hopper hanging back and Perrin going "Wait, you aren't coming with us?" Or at the very least Perrin going "it's probably not a good idea to bring you into the city, man." Perrin telling Hopper "stay" just seemed condescending
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Oct 6, 2023 22:24
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thrawn527 posted:Of course it was. As you said, he got his mojo back, and they wanted to show it. Maybe he got scared and ran once Moiraine started blowing poo poo up. I probably wouldn't want to be a loser with a bow on a cliff while a lady's torching a fleet below me. What happens when she decides to turn around?
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Oct 6, 2023 22:25
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nine-gear crow posted:To be fair, if I fired an arrow at the back of a dude's head and he caught it in midair and then killed three other people on my team with it, I would just pack up and leave as well because it's clear I am an active hindrance to this battle and I am not doing poo poo against this unstoppable whirlwind of martial death before me. Yeah I'm mostly willing to forgive this as rule of cool, and I think 'gently caress this poo poo, I'm out' would be an entirely legitimate response to Lan. It was a little 'huh?' in the moment though.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:25
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:given how loving sick the heroes coming to fight was this episode, Hopper coming back and leading the wolf heroes at the last battle is probably going to have me full blown sobbing This gets me every reread.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:27
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