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So, like, is Mei Mei, you know, evil? Cus she's a baddie, but also, she might be a Baddie? Very sus character
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Oct 13, 2023 01:24
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Gologle posted:So, like, is Mei Mei, you know, evil? Cus she's a baddie, but also, she might be a Baddie? Very sus character Wrong thread? Anyway not a villain but very amoral.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:58
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meimei can do nothing wrong hth
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Oct 13, 2023 02:37
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I don’t think JJK has gotten bad bad but like, it’s definitely seriously suffered for like 90% of the characters I give a poo poo about having exited stage left over a year ago
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Oct 13, 2023 04:16
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Conspiratiorist posted:Same. Even the nonsense that is Culling Game, inarguably wonky pacing aside, I appreciate because it was clearly taking a piss at shounen tournament/death game plotlines - the villain only set it up as a distraction and way to gather cursed energy while he worked his actual plans. I don't see it as taking the piss, I just see it as inconsistent writing.
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Oct 13, 2023 04:53
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I really cannot wrap my head around someone thinking jjk right now has worse writing than late naruto or current mha. like I don't like some things the culling game has done but the quality gap is so insanely in jjk's favor even so
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Oct 13, 2023 05:31
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Manatee Cannon posted:I really cannot wrap my head around someone thinking jjk right now has worse writing than late naruto or current mha. like I don't like some things the culling game has done but the quality gap is so insanely in jjk's favor even so Same
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Oct 13, 2023 06:04
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Manatee Cannon posted:I really cannot wrap my head around someone thinking jjk right now has worse writing than late naruto or current mha. like I don't like some things the culling game has done but the quality gap is so insanely in jjk's favor even so I have a more negative view of JJK right now than you do and a less negative view of MHA than you do, that's all there really is to it. I guess JJK being worse than endgame Naruto has more to do with just how bad I think JJK is right now than anything else.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:38
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Look, I think we can all agree that manga is bad
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Oct 13, 2023 08:06
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Manatee Cannon posted:I really cannot wrap my head around someone thinking jjk right now has worse writing than late naruto or current mha. like I don't like some things the culling game has done but the quality gap is so insanely in jjk's favor even so I don't think it's Late Naruto bad but I don't think MHA and JJK have much separating them at the moment. A major thing for me is that I don't enjoy fights in a vaccum. If I don't care about the characters involved then a fight has to be exceptionally good for me to really care about it and the only fights I've enjoyed in JJK recently revolved characters from the earlier part of the story. (I, for example, liked the Judgeman fight a lot because deals with Yuji and his personal feelings and what they mean for him as a character.) In comparison the I think the stupid pachinko stuff is absolutely trash as a fight design where it's basically just random poo poo happening starring characters I don't care about in situations that feel effectively pointless. That pointlessness drags a ton of it down for me. Things are just sort of happening without much rhyme or reason and the fights haven't been cool enough to get me over the hump of that. MHA is severely flawed at the moment but for all its many flaws it is focusing on the characters the story has been following for a while, has actively tried (even if it hasn't always succeeded) to give characters plot resolutions and cool moments, and while the arc as a whole has been pretty bad it has actually had a lot of enjoyable and strong moments, they're just dragged down by the pacing and the constant noselling of stuff (and JJK absolutely is not really winning in the pacing-and-constant-noselling department.) Even the art isn't really stronger in either because in both cases it is clear that they are basically trying to get poo poo done before their arms fall off so you get a lot of really awful looking sequences. JJK is usually stronger here but recently it's been getting worse and the last chapter in particular really felt crappy to me so I can't even give it the prize there. I am not opposed to to the sort of thing JJK is trying to do, I just don't think it's succeeding at it. Hunter x Hunter's Chimera Ant arc managed to make me so strongly invested in the new characters that even when it wrote out Gon and Killua and focused almost exclusively on characters introduced in that arc I remained invested. Chainsaw Man Part 2 is almost an entirely new cast but it pulled off its job of making me care about members of that new cast. JJK hasn't, to the point where except for the obvious ones I genuinely have trouble remembering the characters, which isn't a problem I had at all in the pre Culling Game story.
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Oct 13, 2023 08:32
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spoilers for mha, tho I'm genuinely curious whether there's anyone reading one but not the other itt mha has all of the flaws people pin on jjk, except I guess it just ignores a lot of the cast instead of killing them (except midnight, off screen). and people talk about yuki being treated poorly but her fight wasn't even bad and compared to stars & stripes, she's the greatest character of all time. like mha has a girl where the author just brings her back occasionally to tear another limb off. what about bakugo dying, being brought back to life WITH THE POWER OF JEANS, and then disappearing for like a whole year? do we not remember all the dumb poo poo that's been happening for the past year or so in that series? I know the current all might scene has been good but before that it's been all bad, all the time like I'm not confused that people can like one series more than the other, that's fine, but this is about the quality of the writing. mha is just a disaster that's failed on pretty much every level. it's def on par with late naruto and worse than a lot of the final arc, it's just that the final arc of naruto is like 300 ch long
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Oct 13, 2023 09:09
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for me it's simply that multiple characters becoming mouthpieces for the "love" theme when they had showed no characterization of the sort before yorozu was in the story makes me believe gege does not care about the characters or story he had carefully set up anymore and is just finishing the painting in the broadest strokes possible. might as well read to the end though.
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Oct 13, 2023 10:51
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Manatee Cannon posted:spoilers for mha, tho I'm genuinely curious whether there's anyone reading one but not the other itt See, Yuki is even worse than Stars, and by a considerable margin. Which is impressive! Stars was terrible, but JJK managed to one-up by 1) Having the hero who dies be someone who was set up since before the manga started as One To Watch, rather than a random new character to let the main badguy show his strength without losing someone important. It means that the feeling of "waste" is lesser. Stars was maybe a cool design. Yuki was someone people were actually excited for. 2) Shigaraki's victory came from the whole AfO personality conflict, which is a huge part of his big villain arc. It's something set up for a long time in advance, and something still coming into play now. Meanwhile, Kenjaku won because he's immune to black holes. It's the same rear end-pull no-sell that people point out for All for One now, only ramped up even further, since it's countering an attack that can destroy a planet. 3) Stars managed a no-score draw in death. AfO didn't get her quirk, and even managed to do some (narratively insignificant, but hyped up) damage to his quirk supply, in addition to saving her squad (if they choose to die like idiots later, that's not on her) Meanwhile, Yuki lost hard, despite having heavier support. Kenjaku took no lasting damage, he accomplished everything he set out to do, and she didn't manage to do jack to him. That's a big sweep. And it kind of connects to another way MHA's managing its last arc better. You look at it, and pretty much every character people care about is getting A Big Moment. Sure, verdicts differ on how many are any good, but Horikoshi's trying to let almost every living character of note get something, from La Brava's hacking to Lemillion showing Shigaraki his butt as a distraction, to Uraraka finally managing to get through to Toga and understand her life, letting Toga return the favor and actually do something good for once, even if she dies in the process. It's an attempt to reward reader investment, succeed or fail. Meanwhile, JJK feels more like it just discards characters lately, giving Gojo and Kashimo speeches that are more about the latest plot point than about them. (And the Kashimo fight meant skipping right over the mourning you'd expect for a bunch of characters losing their mentor). MHA feels like the story is trying to get everything in, even if it's clunky sometimes. (Although Jujutsu Kaisen isn't in any position to criticize leaving a character near-death in an unknown state for a long time) Meanwhile, Jujutsu Kaisen feels more like it's tossing everything except the absolute necessities out, only to then meander over and just have the US soldiers and Helicopter Guy for a bit to avoid even having things feel tight.
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Oct 13, 2023 11:01
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I was bummed out about Yuki as well but at least she got a really cool battle that was well drawn and easy to follow. Stars and Stripes was just an incomprehensible mess of squiggly lines. Like both of these are battle mangas and i feel the worst sin a battle manga can commit is making the battles themselves lovely and hard to follow regardless of what happens narratively. And aside from the OFA final stand that's going on now like every single battle in MHA the last 2 or so years has just been garbage imo.
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Oct 13, 2023 11:38
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Man why do people care so much avout Yuki? She was just some random chaff
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Oct 13, 2023 12:26
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chiasaur11 posted:See, Yuki is even worse than Stars, and by a considerable margin. Which is impressive! Stars was terrible, but JJK managed to one-up by No.
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Oct 13, 2023 13:04
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Yuki’s fit was cool and that’s enough for me.
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Oct 13, 2023 13:32
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Nanami loving rules and I’m not ready to relive what’s gonna happen
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Oct 13, 2023 14:17
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I kinda fell off JJK during the Culling Game because while there were some fun fights here and there I genuinely cannot remember anything as to why half of the them happened or what the point of most of the stuff around Kenjaku and Tengen was. Yeah, I know we'll get back to Kenjaku at some point but if I straight up cannot remember the order of events or why they happened or the names of most people involved in a long arc full of fights I mostly liked I think your writing is a bit of a mess. Horikoshi is getting Kubo'd (dying, rushing, too concerned with reader surveys) and but I can at least loving remember what's going on there, both stupid and good. Yuki's thing is just disappointing on its own because it's resolved in at least as dumb of a manner as any Ywach/AFO level asspull. Yuki, the rare special grade sorcerer who is present for some of the most important conversations in the series finally shows up to kick rear end... and literally gets killed and her insanely powerful technique no-sold because Kenjaku had a trick in his back pocket just for black holes. That's before you get into what probably bothers other people which was JJK's first half having what seemed to excite people as good female representation before it fed most existing characters and then some new ones into a wood chipper. The Gojo fight I was enjoying until the end and I was 1000% certain Gojo was gonna get killed, so I'm not some delusional fanboy who is mad he lost at all. That being said, we'll see. We're fighting the big bads now instead of a gigantic cast of literally whos, and the presumed main character is finally back in the fight! I think Gege is dying too though because the art has gotten pretty rough, and not in a way that indicates some change in style or approach.
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Oct 13, 2023 14:19
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Collapsing Farts posted:Man why do people care so much avout Yuki? She was just some random chaff she taught Todo everything he knows and that's more than enough reason for me
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Oct 13, 2023 14:25
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Collapsing Farts posted:Man why do people care so much avout Yuki? She was just some random chaff
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Oct 13, 2023 14:45
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Brought To You By posted:Literally every modern special grade, human or cursed spirit, got better showings in the story and more tlc than Yuki did. It just sucks that her death ultimately accomplished nothing and the story has forgotten her wholesale. Togo and Hanami.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:00
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Togo and Hanami. Togo? If you meant Jogo he got a congratulatory handjob from Sukuna and was the 2nd most prominent of the cursed spirits and also arguably the strongest despite the potential that Mahito had. Hanami might have never won a single of his fights but all of them were good and he still got something resembling character development as he learned to love combat. If you meant Toge, he's not special grade
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Oct 13, 2023 15:05
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Nanami loving rules and I’m not ready to relive what’s gonna happen The anime is so horny for Nanami and hell,
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Oct 13, 2023 15:12
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Brought To You By posted:Togo? If you meant Jogo he got a congratulatory handjob from Sukuna and was the 2nd most prominent of the cursed spirits and also arguably the strongest despite the potential that Mahito had. Hanami might have never won a single of his fights but all of them were good and he still got something resembling character development as he learned to love combat. Togo was stated to be strong but spent every fight getting literally clowned on and he got 'praise' from the guy who might as well be called The Sadistic Sarcasm Elemental. Hanami was in 1 good fight where he was being used as a training dummy for Yuji being trained by his big bro and then was hydraulic pressed basically to taunt Togo. Both were stated to be so strong and special and only got owned. Often comedically. They may have technically been in more panels but they weren't getting better treatment. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 15:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:They may have technically been in more panels but they weren't getting better treatment. The point isn't that they win, the point is the story didn't spend scattered chapters implying they had more worth than being throwaway characters before they died. Hanami's death at least contributed towards sealing Gojo, something that did have actual consequences. What pray tell did Yuki's death accomplish? So far absolutely nothing and maybe we get something when Kenjaku finally shows back up but that's to be determined. At this point Choso's two brothers that died had more of an impact on the actual plot than Yuki because at least they served to help bridge Yuji and Choso's relationship and also gave Nobaru a tip on how to use her ability that aided them in Shibuya.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:39
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Brought To You By posted:At this point Choso's two brothers that died had more of an impact on the actual plot than Yuki because at least they served to help bridge Yuji and Choso's relationship and also gave Nobaru a tip on how to use her ability that aided them in Shibuya. I love how that whole plotline proceeded. Their fight triggered that poignant conversation between Yuji and Nobara that actually showed some thoughtful engagement with the use of violence against intelligent beings. It's that lingering guilt that helps bring Yuji and Choso to reconcile, it was a great thread to follow. It could have been effectively carried through the culling game, but Gege chose that weird focus on "love/loneliness" instead that seems to basically come out of nowhere.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:50
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Jogo demolished everyone he went up against that wasn’t the two absolute top dogs of the setting, Jogo was actually treated pretty well for what could’ve been an easy throw away fodder character. He basically killed Nanami Mahito just did the cherry tap.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:51
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It is kinda funny that as far as I know Jogou is the strongest cursed *spirit* we've seen- I think he was probably stronger than Tamamo no Mae who was the lynchpin of pre-brainjacking Geto. And he picked fights with the only two guys in the setting who could just completely kick his rear end.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:53
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Manatee Cannon posted:spoilers for mha, tho I'm genuinely curious whether there's anyone reading one but not the other itt So, the honest truth is, jokes aside, Bakugo's death and return doesn't bother me. Like whatever, it's goofy. I don't mind goofy. My complaint isn't goofy. "Bakugo dies and gets his heart remade by two heroes using their goofy powers" is not actually any dumber than "Maki trains in a hyperbolic sumo chamber" I don't care if shonen is goofy. Going "but Bakugo has a JEAN HEART" as if that is a massive plot thing that ruins the series and not something I giggle at doesn't really make sense to me. I like both superhero comics and shonen and goofy is baked into them ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 15:54
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Jogo was the heart and the soul of the cursed spirits. They all ended up being pawn in Kenjaku's plot, but Jogo believed. That was way more important than being strong. Yuki? She chose self-isolation. She didn't even manage to ever meet with Gojo. If anything, never getting to know if anything she attempted ever had any result, other than the Geto speech, was how she was done dirty. Char fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 16:00
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Brought To You By posted:The better treatment is that their fights were still good and also their role in the story is antagonist not mysterious good-guy mentor figure. Hanami got to have fun against two guys who had insane chemistry. Jogo basically only loses when Gojo or Sukuna show up and even without that he has a lot of personality and managed to kill Naobito who might not matter but is is the catalyst for the destruction of the Zen'nin family. Jogo also put Nanami's foot in the grave properly before Mahito finished him off and that let Nanami go out like the freaking terminator with half his body burned to the bone itself. Both all also belonged to a tight-knit group and helped form the backbone for half of the series as the main antagonists. Yuki got a last minute reveal that she was a previous star vessel that went nowhere since even Tengen has been made irrelevant as of the current chapter. 2 things: Mysterious goodguy mentor figures in a battle shonen do in fact usually get got and they didn't fulfill their roles as big antagonistic threats they were jokes from moment one that the story quickly moved on from to the actual antagonist who turns out is the person that killed her. She's done way more by being big character moments for geto and Mr. Boogie Woogie than hanami did the entire manga. She did not in fact get done worse than literally every other major character. Shut up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 13, 2023 16:21
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It really just boils down to, if you're gonna have a character no-sell a black hole you better have a good rear end explanation and JJK did not.
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Oct 13, 2023 16:25
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:2 things: Mysterious goodguy mentor figures in a battle shonen do in fact usually get got and they didn't fulfill their roles as big antagonistic threats they were jokes from moment one that the story quickly moved on from to the actual antagonist who turns out is the person that killed her. She's done way more by being big character moments for geto and Mr. Boogie Woogie than hanami did the entire manga. She did not in fact get done worse than literally every other major character. Shut up.
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Oct 13, 2023 16:44
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chiasaur11 posted:That's a big sweep. And it kind of connects to another way MHA's managing its last arc better. You look at it, and pretty much every character people care about is getting A Big Moment. Sure, verdicts differ on how many are any good, but Horikoshi's trying to let almost every living character of note get something, from La Brava's hacking to Lemillion showing Shigaraki his butt as a distraction, to Uraraka finally managing to get through to Toga and understand her life, letting Toga return the favor and actually do something good for once, even if she dies in the process. It's an attempt to reward reader investment, succeed or fail. Meanwhile, JJK feels more like it just discards characters lately, giving Gojo and Kashimo speeches that are more about the latest plot point than about them. (And the Kashimo fight meant skipping right over the mourning you'd expect for a bunch of characters losing their mentor). That doesn't seem like a good thing, though? I wouldn't describe "the narrative trying to awkwardly force everyone into the spotlight" as something inherently desirable in fiction. While JJK is much worse about it than something like Chainsawman, it at least does something that is somewhat unpredictable. IMO that's preferable to "doing something cliche, but badly" (which is basically how you described late MHA)
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Oct 13, 2023 16:52
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Electric Phantasm posted:It really just boils down to, if you're gonna have a character no-sell a black hole you better have a good rear end explanation and JJK did not. Kenjaku's CT is literally gravity manipulation.
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Oct 13, 2023 17:10
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She lost a coinflip and I'm ok with that. Choso also only came out of that alive due to her and he at least got information out of it.
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Oct 13, 2023 17:22
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Speaking of which man I can't wait for Yuji vs Choso next week
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Oct 13, 2023 18:07
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chiasaur11 posted:See, Yuki is even worse than Stars, and by a considerable margin. this whole argument is nonsense to me, like "at least we didn't care who stars was" is not a point in her favor I'm forced to agree to disagree on this one because I don't know how to respond to it
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Oct 13, 2023 18:33
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Togo was stated to be strong but spent every fight getting literally clowned on and he got 'praise' from the guy who might as well be called The Sadistic Sarcasm Elemental. It's Jogo.
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Oct 13, 2023 21:54
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