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Taima posted:The problem is he loving killed all of the best characters and it's so weird that he did that in retrospect. The narrative heart of the series died in Shibuya, and so did the character-based writing. It was like Gege gave up, and was just like "I can't fix this so lets play with cool action figures for 100 chapters while the main character pretty much completely fucks off" (Toji and Geto have always been dead.) Your complaint here is really common, I just don't see a real problem with any of the above except how pointless Nobara's death was given how disgusting Mahito already was.
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Oct 15, 2023 21:22
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my friends and I are extremely funny guys. to prove it please read the full unedited transcripts of our hilarious antics post 1 of 1489
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Oct 15, 2023 21:58
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No Wave posted:I think this is overstated. Or was, until Gojo died. The characters who died up through Shibuya were remote control robot (unimportant), Nanami (who always had death flags), Mahito (I assume no one was sad to see him go), volcano head (funny and all but always a weirdly strong nobody), and Nobara. Which of these characters was the narrative heart of the series? Todo and Nobara left the story. Yuji left his OWN story for most of the culling games. Gojo left for the entire culling games.  we can agree to disagree, that’s fine, but those characters were the heart of the story for me. Megumi was around I guess, sometimes
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Oct 15, 2023 22:04
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Lawyer guy and OP comedian should be the new main characters
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Oct 15, 2023 22:27
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No Wave posted:I think this is overstated. Or was, until Gojo died. The characters who died up through Shibuya were remote control robot (unimportant), Nanami (who always had death flags), Mahito (I assume no one was sad to see him go), volcano head (funny and all but always a weirdly strong nobody), and Nobara. Which of these characters was the narrative heart of the series? I felt Jogo was the heart and soul of the villains.
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Oct 15, 2023 23:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:I felt Jogo was the heart and soul of the villains.
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Oct 15, 2023 23:21
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ImpAtom posted:See, I agree with you on YYH. I actually feel like the last arc is perfectly fine even if it is rushed and I really like where it goes. This is definitely a good point, and YYH does pull the payoff better than JJK does (so far). But JJK also isn't over yet and could very well still stick the landing. I do feel Gege is working towards some sort of resolution, and isn't just chucking random poo poo at the wall to see what sticks - though I did feel they were doing that earlier with the whole weird American soldier subplot and all that jazz. But it feels like they refound their footing to me. I still stand by my original point that JJK is more vibes-based than plot-based, and is similar to YYH in that extent. And it's fine if that way of storytelling isn't everyone cup of tea, but that doesn't have to mean it's bad storytelling. I also agree with you that Kuwabara going all "Yusuke my dude I love you but I need to get back to school my man" is an incredible plot beat 
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Oct 16, 2023 09:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:I felt Jogo was the heart and soul of the villains. I agree that he had so much to give to the series and I was pretty surprised when he got taken out. In a sense, his righteous fury encapsulated a lot of the overall grievances of the disaster curses: he hated humans on a similarly basic level to Mahito, and represented the limitless fury and wanton destruction of volcanos/nature, so is a very decent stand in for the desires and viewpoints of Hanami as well. Dagon just kind of... vibed? so I can't speak for him, he was awesome though. The concept of a permanent, hidden and beautiful tropical beach domain owns. It felt like Jogo was being setup to learn more about himself as a curse and the role that curses and sorcerers play in the grand scheme. He could have lived on as the sole remaining disaster curse and been a good stand in for all of them, learning and growing as the story unfolded, but then he just kinda got no diffed. again. Admittedly it was a really cool scene though. Unfortunately there isn't a ton of plot-based learning/empowerment post Shibuya unless you count that whole thing where Maki stumbled on the sumo guy and the sword guy randomly and became Toji. I've always been a fan of characters in shonen growing over time because it's also an opportunity to really explore their characters. I do think Maki has one of the better overall arcs though, and wish we could see a lot more of her as New-Toji. I'm sure she'll have some moments to shine, but the story is quickly closing. Taima fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 13:37
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Part of the issue with keeping Jogo around after his encounter with Sukuna is that it's hard to imagine a reason why he would not butcher every sorcerer in Shibuya. Until Yuki arrived I don't think anyone there could have taken him.
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Oct 16, 2023 17:46
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Catching up on the thread still. Hakari nation is stronger than ever. Uraume is a pretty nasty matchup for Hakari so I'm curious if they'll continue to face off now that everyone else is here. Hakari's main combat power comes from being unkillable when he gets a jackpot so he's much more susceptible to being frozen and unable to do anything than anyone else I think. Thought it was funny this was the result of Kashimo trying to ask Sukuna about the loneliness of strength  I wonder if Okkotsu is hanging back to deal with Kenjaku
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Oct 16, 2023 21:16
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skipmyseashells posted:you all know drat well the narrator is gonna say ‘today, kinji hikari’s luck finally ran out’ I let out an involuntary groan like I got sucker punched when I read this RatHat posted:I’m definitely interested in seeing how Higuruma’s cursed technique works with Sukuna. He’s seen it already through Yuji so I’m sure he’s figured out some loophole to beat it https://x.com/gojoulicious/status/1711273679835799626?s=20 yum posted:Mahito had the greatest potential and was the most dangerous out of all the disaster curses. By all rights, he should not have lost to Yuji who doesn’t even have a technique. Yuji may be immune to Mahito’s powers, but so what? Just go out there, ignore him, and come back once you develop something that can handle him. Idle transformation is an incredibly versatile power that is limited only by the creativity and imagination of the user. I’m sure there’s something you can do with it to beat a really durable punching doll. I think if Mahito did something to avoid fighting Yuji then he'd ultimately always be a loser compared to him. Gojo's biggest weakness was always that he wasn't born in the Heian era or similar. He was born the strongest by such a large margin he almost never struggled. The two fights that made him struggle were Toji and Sukuna and in both of those he suddenly evolved by leaps and bounds even though previously he was already 'the strongest'. Sukuna was also born (presumably) being absurdly strong but I imagine had a lot of tough fights as he was ascending. Writing this reminds me of Nanami comparing Mahito and Gojo's nature and I wonder if there is more to that and why they both ultimately come up short against Yuji and Sukuna respectively. As for everyone having to jump the seemingly unbeatable baddy I'm fine with that in theory but we'll see how it turns out. It's been clear for a long time that Yuji was way behind Gojo and Sukuna in strength and not going to catch up. Gojo beating Sukuna would have been the most boring ending for me I think even if it was a double KO and left everyone else to mop up Kenjaku. I don't know if the resolution will be any good but I'm more interested in seeing where it goes than if Gojo had won. I think removing most of the Ten Shadows is good though it's definitely less than I wanted him to achieve, I hoped he'd get Megumi out perhaps. Though if Sukuna's domain is still down after this transformation then that is significant as otherwise it'll be able to domain bust everyone including Higuruma I imagine. I liked the 'calvinball' (I think this means rules are made up?) aspect of the Sukuna and Gojo fight. It felt pretty earned to me. The manga has been pretty solid about how the rules and mechanics work and then the two guys who are lightyears stronger than anyone else push beyond what everyone else thought was possible. We'd also been shown the borderless domain before and I thought Gojo's time in prison realm letting him conceive a tiny barrier was good too.
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Oct 16, 2023 22:26
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EmmyOk posted:I let out an involuntary groan like I got sucker punched when I read this for the record calvinball refers to Calvin and Hobbes. wherein they play this imaginary game where the rules are made up every time they play it but the real rule is that no rules can be used twice so every time you see it in the series it's different
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Oct 16, 2023 22:53
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EmmyOk posted:I think if Mahito did something to avoid fighting Yuji then he'd ultimately always be a loser compared to him. Gojo's biggest weakness was always that he wasn't born in the Heian era or similar. He was born the strongest by such a large margin he almost never struggled. Outside of Angel's ability to cancel cursed techniques, I'm not sure what the Heian sorcerers had that would have challenged Gojo any more than current-day sorcerers. They've been pretty hyped-up, but ultimately the modern-day sorcerers have proven superior over the incarnated ones. And the dude who fought Sukuna as an incarnated sorcerer wasn't even from the Heian era.
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Oct 17, 2023 15:58
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It isn't that Mahito should have avoided Yuji, it's that he shouldn't have formed an attachment to him through his obsessive hate. Hate and love are two sides of the same coin in the sense that they involve forming positive/negative connections with others. Sukuna forms no such connections, he only cares for himself. Cursed spirits are below humans in the natural jujutsu order because they are literal embodiments of regrets and attachments. Mahito may have had the potential to transcend this since he was born of humans, but in the end, he's still just a low-totem-pole-hungry ghost. Kenjaku and Sukuna look down on cursed spirits as ignorant beings. For what it's worth, you could view the first half of JJK as centred on hate through the primary antagonists being cursed spirits, and the second half as love with the antagonists being humans. I don't think this theme was communicated very clearly though. edit: to add to Mahito thing, his hatred of Yuji was manifested physically through his lovely final form. The fight's conclusion was Yuji's carthic moment where he attained enlightenment of his true purpose. He let go of his hate towards Mahito and realized his real purpose was to exorcise cursed spirits. Yuji may or may not be able to defeat Sukuna in battle, but it would be a philosophical victory if he made Sukuna feel actual hatred towards him as it would be Sukuna's first connection to another person. yum fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 17:43
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Itching for a reread starting at the incident arc.
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Oct 17, 2023 19:25
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yum posted:It isn't that Mahito should have avoided Yuji, it's that he shouldn't have formed an attachment to him through his obsessive hate. Hate and love are two sides of the same coin in the sense that they involve forming positive/negative connections with others. Sukuna forms no such connections, he only cares for himself. Cursed spirits are below humans in the natural jujutsu order because they are literal embodiments of regrets and attachments. Mahito may have had the potential to transcend this since he was born of humans, but in the end, he's still just a low-totem-pole-hungry ghost. Kenjaku and Sukuna look down on cursed spirits as ignorant beings. For what it's worth, you could view the first half of JJK as centred on hate through the primary antagonists being cursed spirits, and the second half as love with the antagonists being humans. I don't think this theme was communicated very clearly though. I like this framing a lot
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Oct 17, 2023 19:50
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Outside of Angel's ability to cancel cursed techniques, I'm not sure what the Heian sorcerers had that would have challenged Gojo any more than current-day sorcerers. They've been pretty hyped-up, but ultimately the modern-day sorcerers have proven superior over the incarnated ones. And the dude who fought Sukuna as an incarnated sorcerer wasn't even from the Heian era. Precisely that, cursed tools and abilities/techniques like Domain Amplification, or forcing Domain Battles where Limitless would be cancelled out and it's down to grit, and this is without getting into the existence of CTs that like Sukuna's could potentially be adapted to bypass the working principles of Limitless. Note how Miguel, a sorcerer without a cursed technique or any remarkable qualities besides excellent jujutsu combat basics, kept Gojo busy for the entirety of the Night Parade incident on his own with the aid of a CT-disrupting cursed tool, and even managed to give him the slip (through Six Eyes) once he'd exhausted his weapon and chose to withdraw. Though he retracted it in the end, Sukuna calling Gojo mediocre during their fight was an indictment on his fundamental skill as a sorcerer - relying on the energy efficiency granted by Six Eyes to abuse the raw offensive/defensive power of Limitless wasn't impressive to a sorcerer who reached "the truth" of jujutsu through self-improvement. Gojo on the other hand was born literally blessed by Fate, and without the need or ambition to reach greater heights ended up stagnating. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 20:16
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yum posted:It isn't that Mahito should have avoided Yuji, it's that he shouldn't have formed an attachment to him through his obsessive hate. Hate and love are two sides of the same coin in the sense that they involve forming positive/negative connections with others. Sukuna forms no such connections, he only cares for himself. Cursed spirits are below humans in the natural jujutsu order because they are literal embodiments of regrets and attachments. Mahito may have had the potential to transcend this since he was born of humans, but in the end, he's still just a low-totem-pole-hungry ghost. Kenjaku and Sukuna look down on cursed spirits as ignorant beings. For what it's worth, you could view the first half of JJK as centred on hate through the primary antagonists being cursed spirits, and the second half as love with the antagonists being humans. I don't think this theme was communicated very clearly though. I think Mahito found what he wanted though, I don't think he failed to get there. Just that his ultimate becoming was insufficient rather than malformed. I think you might be onto something with him being ultimately stymied by what he's the embodiment of. Yuji at his strongest and Sukuna are pretty much disconnected from any humanity. I like the idea that Sukuna already hates Yuji. Granted he looks down on everyone Gojo included but he seems pathologically incurious about what Yuji can do and loves tormenting him. I think one of the few things that might piss him off is someone who he considered a total nothing to be the one to challenge him. He acknowledges Kashimo and Gojo's strength, or at least them as strong. I'm very curious still what he meant by Yuji being from "then" and Kenjaku being twisted for it.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:17
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I'm not so sure on Sukuna nakedly hating Yuji. Rather, even when it's frustrating, he seems genuinely pleased when Yuji presses on past what he deemed his (physical or mental) breaking point. Holding Uraume back from finishing him off certainly felt like "throwing him a bone." I can't tell if this is because Sukuna sees some kind of potential in him, or if he's simply glad he can keep sipping on that particular flavor of suffering a little longer, but there's an attachment at work here that I see as more nuanced than visceral disagreement.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:34
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The craziest thing about Mahito is that he was basically Jesus. His capacity to do good, were he amenable to it, was almost literally unlimited. The power to make people into their best self is an insane, insane ability. For example, Limitless rivals this ability, but only in the sense that Gojo could kill anyone who disagreed with him, causing the geopolitical power to shift. If the will was there, Mahito could cause the absolute transcendence of humanity. I love that about his character. Taima fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 20:37
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Taima posted:The craziest thing about Mahito is that he was basically Jesus. His capacity to do good, were he amenable to it, was almost literally unlimited. The power to make people into their best self is an insane, insane ability. The issue with Mahito helping humanity is that he was made of humans hate for each other, and never would have been able to act in a way to benefit them.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:47
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EmmyOk posted:I think Mahito found what he wanted though, I don't think he failed to get there. Just that his ultimate becoming was insufficient rather than malformed. I think you might be onto something with him being ultimately stymied by what he's the embodiment of. Yuji at his strongest and Sukuna are pretty much disconnected from any humanity. My perspective is that his final form was not the ultimate expression of a technique that can shape and reconfigure souls, one of the most important concepts in the series. Apart from raw power, the primary advantage was that it made him... durable like Hanami. I guess that was what he was looking for as it was a counter to fighters like Yuji, but it didn't extend his ability to use his technique, and he was still susceptible to more complex or psychological abilities. His loss could even be attributed to getting tricked by Todo's fake Boogie Woogie. There wasn't any logical reason as to why he would make his final form mirror Yuji physically, there were all sorts of possibilities he could have gone with. It just seems unfulfilling for a technique with such creative potential. Conspiratiorist posted:I'm not so sure on Sukuna nakedly hating Yuji. Rather, even when it's frustrating, he seems genuinely pleased when Yuji presses on past what he deemed his (physical or mental) breaking point. Holding Uraume back from finishing him off certainly felt like "throwing him a bone." I agree, I don't think Sukuna "hates" Yuji, it's more of a dislike or an impersonal irritation, which leads to tormenting him for entertainment. In the earlier chapters, there was that spread of Mahito and Sukuna sharing a laugh which obviously emphasizes their similarities, but there's a clear difference between Mahito's hatred of Yuji compared to how Sukuna acts towards him. Honestly, Sukuna seems like he could care less about Yuji, especially after he swapped to Megumi. I don't think he even expected Yuji to survive that devasting sucker-punch to the stomach.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:51
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I feel like it’s very odd to judge a serialized story before it’s conclusion. Obviously when it’s getting drip fed a single chapter a week with long hiatuses, the story will feel disjointed with weird pacing. Not to be too much of a literary nerd, but weren’t a lot of major novels originally published serially? It’s been a while but I vaguely remember some stuff from high school English about Dickens originally being published in that format. Frank Herbert and Dune as well.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:54
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wedgie deliverer posted:I feel like it’s very odd to judge a serialized story before it’s conclusion. Obviously when it’s getting drip fed a single chapter a week with long hiatuses, the story will feel disjointed with weird pacing. A lot of stuff was yeah. Brothers Karamazov or three Musketeers or even Anna Karenina. However I think it's fine to discuss and judge current feelings/thoughts a story as it's coming out. You can simply change your mind if you're proven incorrect or it ultimately satisfies your complaints. It's also to be expected with a weekly. Stuff like the army chapters end up feeling kind of ancillary I think and don't seem likely to make a major comeback even though the story is ongoing. I think most pacing complaints are worth waiting on but otoh it's a medium that has to take its natural structure into account.
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Oct 17, 2023 21:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:The issue with Mahito helping humanity is that he was made of humans hate for each other, and never would have been able to act in a way to benefit them. Oh definitely, 100%. I just love the idea that he's basically Evil Jesus in some ways. We know he has the ability to help humans because of the pact with Kokichi, there's nothing stopping him from doing so besides his character traits (and of course he was trying to get out of that agreement even then, but he did do it). He had the powers of a literal god.
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Oct 17, 2023 21:23
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Evil Giorno
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Oct 17, 2023 21:39
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Pootybutt posted:Evil Giorno false, he did not create a single tree
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Oct 17, 2023 22:35
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:false, he did not create a single tree He'd make himself the tree
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Oct 17, 2023 22:44
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One of my favourite mahito moments is his little “aw” reaction when turning into a giant spike ball turns out to be a lame attack and not cause Nanami or Itadori any trouble
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Oct 17, 2023 22:51
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Holy sheit re: the leaks gege is the biggest troll in the game (that is not a spoiler in any way, shape or form)
Taima fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 13:46
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Taima posted:Holy sheit re: the leaks gege is the biggest troll in the game (that is not a spoiler in any way, shape or form) New thread rule if you talk about leaks you need to link the thing you've read
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Oct 18, 2023 14:13
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Or just ban “oh the leaks are soooooo good you guys tee hee I just couldn’t wait to tell you I know something you don’t know” posting
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Oct 18, 2023 14:17
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CharlestonJew posted:Or just ban “oh the leaks are soooooo good you guys tee hee I just couldn’t wait to tell you I know something you don’t know” posting It's very lame
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Oct 18, 2023 14:19
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never said it was good and it's not some secret info by any stretch, go read it if you wantJerkface posted:you gonna link it or what Oh, sure thing. To be totally honest the leaks are regarded as a normal part of the week in the greater, like, jjk manga community. I wasn't aware that people didn't know where to find them, and was definitely not trying to hold it over anyone's head (nor would that be a cool thing to do, so I get why people are perceiving it negatively). https://www.reddit.com/r/JuJutsuKaisen/comments/17ajn79/jujutsu_kaisen_chapter_239_prerelease_leaks_thread/ This explains how to get them and all that. I don't know what percentage of JJK readers check out the leaks but it is very, very common and in no way secret It goes without saying that the leaks are an inferior method of reading JJK, however, if you want to keep up on the fan theories and such, a lot of the most involved people are posting about it now, not on Sunday. That's why I check the leaks, at least. By the time the actual official English chapter is out that conversation is almost a week old and 90% of the discussion has already happened and concluded I normally just check the leaks out and then wait for the final one on Sunday but I believe the full chapter is translated and released a couple of days after the leaks come out, so that would as far as I know mean it would be available like, tomorrow or Fri I think. Taima fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 14:24
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Taima posted:never said it was good and it's not some secret info by any stretch, go read it if you want you gonna link it or what
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Oct 18, 2023 14:25
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Guys I saw this thing. OMFG.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:33
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I can't believe Sukuna deez nuts lol
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Oct 18, 2023 14:42
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Taima posted:never said it was good and it's not some secret info by any stretch, go read it if you want you mean Reddit basically. actually are there any threads here that are all in on text spoilers? as a general rule of thumb if you talk about something that people can view / read you should link to it in your post. asking the reader to go extra steps to understand your post isn't very considerate
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Oct 18, 2023 14:45
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Yeah the leaks are just the standard for anyone trying to discuss fan theory on Discord and/or Reddit, that's basically the internet at this point unfortunately. Otherwise you're way, way behind the discussion, which imo makes them mandatory if you intend to add to that discussion or even just read it as it unfolds. My apologies friend. You can follow the link and get yourself all set up. No Wave posted:If posting links or images for context is too much emotional labor maybe it would be better to post on discord instead? .. are you ok dude? It's easy to forget at times that SA is insular and doesn't sometimes have access to things that are standard everywhere else. It was not my intention to make you so upset. Taima fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 14:47
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If posting links or images for context is too much emotional labor maybe it would be better to post on discord instead?
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Oct 18, 2023 15:00
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