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Shockeh posted:I'm stuck. Skip ahead to Saturnine, Saturnine owns. You can finish Lost and the Damned later (or not, if you don't feel like it).
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Nov 6, 2023 00:28
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Volume II basically confirms an older plot line the star child and I want to revise another theory I have with the Bequin trilogy based off of it. The star child is what Valdor is up to in the pocket dimension/warp. He’s either fighting to recover it or defending it, probably the former. I also think the ending confirms my theory about Sanguinius being corrupted somehow
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Nov 6, 2023 00:34
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Demiurge4 posted:Volume II basically confirms an older plot line the star child and I want to revise another theory I have with the Bequin trilogy based off of it. What's you're argument for the latter, its stated that Horus tried to get nurgle to make a deal with old sangy boy, but the end is basically him saying "gently caress you, even if I die, and I know I am going to die" to Horus
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Nov 6, 2023 00:52
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(TEATD2 spoliers) I appreciate how, even in moments of victory, Chaos can't be triumphant, or elegant, or beautiful in any way. It's just ugly. Ugly like a man beating a dog to death. Ugly like handling a corpse.
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Nov 6, 2023 01:00
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I can't wait to go back in the thread and check out my dumb speculation for EatD2. I'm about 1/3 through it and it's loving awesome. Also echoing that Mortis is worth skipping. Everything in it is a waste, and the best thing I remember from it was actually in Warhawk.
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Nov 6, 2023 01:13
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Just to give an alternative view of the less enjoyed Siege books, I read Warhawk and Saturnine first (it’s what my library had) and then decided to go back and read through the whole thing. Solar War was fun for the scale of things and seeing Horus just smash through the system while still leaving room for some great Loyalist pyrrhic wins. Lost and the Damned may not have had the best primarch action but it did endear me quite thoroughly to Katsuhiro. It’s not the best book on is own but I think the rest of em build on it quite well. The First Wall was the first Gav Thorpe book I’ve read after repeatedly hearing how bad he is and honestly it was fine? He’s no Abnett or ADB, and it was a very “marines smashin into each other repeatedly” story but I still enjoyed the journey, especially for continuing to add to Fafnir Rann’s frustrations that he eventually gets to let out later in the series. Saturnine is just insanely good I got nothing else to add that hasn’t already been said. Mortis is another one that I went into after hearing nothing good about it but similar to Lost and the Damned I actually really liked what it did with one of the side factions of the siege in how it showed the smaller loyalist Knight houses. I know lots of people were disappointed with the Dies Irae but to me it felt like a decent depiction of an otherworldly engine just kinda doing its own thing including ignoring some basic laws of the universe. Warhawk and Echoes also both just absolutely great, though I think they both also benefit a lot from all the previous books, sometimes just in little throwaway lines, sometimes to get a better idea of a character’s motivation. I’m halfway through EatD volume 1 right now and I’m really glad I read all the books beforehand. Abnett is blazing through seemingly every character that has even a single moment in the series and I am here for it. All that said, it’s your leisure time so spend it however you want to. Saturnine and Warhawk were such good reads for me that I went through them twice, so if you do need to skip to one of the more beloved entries do it, but I highly recommend going back afterwards to get the full picture.
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Nov 6, 2023 02:36
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Grilled Beef posted:Man Maximus Thane old af if he fights in the Great Crusade, Heresy, Siege, War of the Beast, and The Beheading. They keep making a point out of Archamus being "Archamus, second of his name" so I'm guessing the Fists pass down their important/historic names. So there's always a Maximus Thane. Also not really a spoiler but I'll cover it just to be safe, I absolutely love the line He does know that the final hours of Terra's fall are not a teaching moment. As someone who encounters this phrase a lot, it's very 
Kylaer fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 02:49
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I loved all the siege books so far except Mortis, which squandered so much potential, and saturnine. Everyone else loves Saturnine but to me it felt like the book Abnett had to push out inbetween the books he wanted to write, ie Bequin. The prose is just not as good as his other works imo.
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Nov 6, 2023 02:51
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That Horus guy is a real jerk.
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Nov 6, 2023 02:59
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Don't forget the Novellas as well. Sons of The Selenar was meh, I really enjoyed Fury of Magnus, and Garro was a good end to his storyline throughout the siege if that is something you are interested in. I thought we were supposed to get one more but unless they surprise release between now and Volume 3 in January I don't think it's happening. I guess they could release one after volume 3 that deals with the aftermath?
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Nov 6, 2023 03:03
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D-Pad posted:Don't forget the Novellas as well. Sons of The Selenar was meh, I really enjoyed Fury of Magnus, and Garro was a good end to his storyline throughout the siege if that is something you are interested in. I thought we were supposed to get one more but unless they surprise release between now and Volume 3 in January I don't think it's happening. I guess they could release one after volume 3 that deals with the aftermath? I think we're supposed to get a Horus primarch novel in between EATD2 and 3 but I'm not 100% on that.
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Nov 6, 2023 03:18
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wiegieman posted:(TEATD2 spoliers) Sanguinius beaten to death LIKE A DOG 
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Nov 6, 2023 03:27
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I'd say that even the bad Siege books (Last Wall and Mortis) are worth reading as long as you just really, surgically cut out and skip past about a third to a half of each. It's easy to do, because those parts are really pretty chunked together and discrete. For Last Wall, just skip the parts where the Imperial Guard army is trying to get to a train. It's all stupid and goes nowhere. For Mortis, skip everything involving Knights and Titans (literally the point of the book, but it's all terrible). It's almost like a separate, awful, predictable, and boring book bolted onto a decent "hey here's what's going on with the main characters" novella. In both cases, you still get some great primarch dynamics, and some interesting smaller characters who recur, and you don't have to slowly slog through about 120 or so pages per book that just make your eyes glaze over.
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Nov 6, 2023 03:30
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Mortis's build-up:payoff ratio is astoundingly bad. It's also the series debut of the Ordo Sinister who all get killed in three to five pages. Mortis feels like an afterthought, like someone remembered Adeptus Titanicus and decided to give it some inconsequential screen time.
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Nov 6, 2023 04:01
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EatD2: Man, it’s nice to see Abaddon have his poo poo together. So much of Horus Heresy, and even most of Siege, he’s been a mad dog, just your standard hyper violent brute at the villains elbow. Nothing particularly interesting about him, just “angle bargle bad guy roar!” Here even in a situation he is not in control of, he’s a thinking character with goals, focus, drive, and foibles. He’s actually realized as a character. It’s such a welcome change from his usual garbage depictions.
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Nov 6, 2023 05:41
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99 CENTS AMIGO posted:For Last Wall, just skip the parts where the Imperial Guard army is trying to get to a train. It's all stupid and goes nowhere. don't do this it's more effort than it's worth and the train sections of the first wall are fun
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Nov 6, 2023 09:44
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I've skipped the entirety of the Siege except for Saturnine, which I'm about to finish. I really want to get into The End and the Death, but I'm starting to wonder if I should actually read Echoes of Eternity. How skippable is Echoes if I generally like ADB's stuff, but just can't keep up with every single BL release even though I want to (unless it's written by Gav Thorpe  )?
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Nov 6, 2023 09:57
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Badly Jester posted:I've skipped the entirety of the Siege except for Saturnine, which I'm about to finish. I really want to get into The End and the Death, but I'm starting to wonder if I should actually read Echoes of Eternity. How skippable is Echoes if I generally like ADB's stuff, but just can't keep up with every single BL release even though I want to (unless it's written by Gav Thorpe Echoes is really good, especially if you like ADB's previous Heresy stuff. I actually liked it more than Saturnine.
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Nov 6, 2023 10:36
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I spent some time now reading The End And The Death 2 and I can confirm without a doubt that it is a book I'm loving how batshit insane the esoteric nonsense gets. I don't even care if the book is good at this point. This trilory is a one time event in the history of BL books. I hope Abnett goes ballsdeep with the LSD eyedrops by book 3 and the warp fully bleeds over into realspace when his psychotic rear end is transported off to a psych ward. Mikojan fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 10:44
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Experience The End and The Death the way it was intended: as a audiobook, while tripping balls on psychedelics  (May require a trip to Colorado to perform legally)
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Nov 6, 2023 12:06
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Echoes is really good, especially if you like ADB's previous Heresy stuff. I actually liked it more than Saturnine. I looked through the Heresy novels I've read and which ones I liked the most, and immediately felt stupid for getting so caught up in the EatD hype that I was going to skip Echoes of Eternity. Crisis averted.
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Nov 6, 2023 12:20
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Badly Jester posted:I looked through the Heresy novels I've read and which ones I liked the most, and immediately felt stupid for getting so caught up in the EatD hype that I was going to skip Echoes of Eternity. Crisis averted. Saturnine, Warhawk, and Echoes are considered must reads ITT generally.
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Nov 6, 2023 12:31
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I would add the Solar War on the list of must reads, not because of the quality of writing but it does set up the entire series and is one of the few 40k/30k books that gets the scale right. Good lord tEatD is currently a perfect cap stone to the Hersey series. It is a completely overblown gothic drawn out end to a completely overblown series.
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Nov 6, 2023 12:37
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OPAONI posted:Saturnine, Warhawk, and Echoes are considered must reads ITT generally. I generally like Wraight's books too. Don't do this to me - at this rate I'll never find out if the Emperor and Horus make up in the end. Fake edit: I just bought it Badly Jester fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 13:27
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Foxtrot_13 posted:I would add the Solar War on the list of must reads, not because of the quality of writing but it does set up the entire series and is one of the few 40k/30k books that gets the scale right. I agree.
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Nov 6, 2023 13:32
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Telsa Cola posted:What's you're argument for the latter, its stated that Horus tried to get nurgle to make a deal with old sangy boy, but the end is basically him saying "gently caress you, even if I die, and I know I am going to die" to Horus Because Sanguinius hasn’t shown any sign of the black rage before or after the fight. He’s dead now so whatever it is, Horus is about to inflict it on his dead body and ghost. I’ve also had the dumb idea that Eisenhorns pet daemonhost is a piece of Sanguinius. But that’s only based on its name being Cherubael.
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Nov 6, 2023 13:39
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I'm genuinely sad that EatD is so locked up behind genre fiction reluctance and a massive wall of content/context you have to climb to appreciate that the wider non-40k scifi and even literature fandom isn't able to appreciate it in any real way. It''s truly a singular fever dream of a book that I know a lot of people would really enjoy but only if they decided to care about 40k and also put in the massive time to read enough other books to get the context. Like I have several friends who I know would absolutely love it but they'd never take the time to get to it in the first place and I don't blame them at all. It's so drat good but nobody but us gets it. Abnett has done something unique and I love it.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:45
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Demiurge4 posted:Because Sanguinius hasn’t shown any sign of the black rage before or after the fight. He’s dead now so whatever it is, Horus is about to inflict it on his dead body and ghost. I’ve also had the dumb idea that Eisenhorns pet daemonhost is a piece of Sanguinius. But that’s only based on its name being Cherubael. The Black Rage never affected Sanguinius himself, IIRC, it was something specifically that affected his gene-line starting with his death. And it's foreshadowed that it's about to hit, in Fafnir Rann's last fragment. The book stops at the moment of Sanguinius' death so I'm guessing the Black Rage will hit at the opening of Volume 3.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:04
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Kylaer posted:Experience The End and The Death the way it was intended: as a audiobook, while tripping balls on psychedelics Highly recommend this btw. Well not via audiobook as I hate them, but reading on psychedelics owns.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:05
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D-Pad posted:I'm genuinely sad that EatD is so locked up behind genre fiction reluctance and a massive wall of content/context you have to climb to appreciate that the wider non-40k scifi and even literature fandom isn't able to appreciate it in any real way. It''s truly a singular fever dream of a book that I know a lot of people would really enjoy but only if they decided to care about 40k and also put in the massive time to read enough other books to get the context. Like I have several friends who I know would absolutely love it but they'd never take the time to get to it in the first place and I don't blame them at all. One of the more literary posters on one of the other threads abruptly found himself reading dozens of Halo and Warhammer books all of a sudden. If a guy who shits on Discworld for being common trash can come around, anyone can.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:26
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FPyat posted:a guy who shits on Discworld for being common trash What the gently caress
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Nov 6, 2023 15:35
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I'm calling the inquisition and you'd better be drat sure I'm getting a puritan.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:37
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Chelys galactica is a native species of the Ultima Segmentum and is common enough there as to be unremarkable. Seeing one in Solar or Pacificus would raise some eyebrows but they're not unheard of.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:49
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FPyat posted:One of the more literary posters on one of the other threads abruptly found himself reading dozens of Halo and Warhammer books all of a sudden. If a guy who shits on Discworld for being common trash can come around, anyone can. Got a link to their post about it? I love when that kind of thing happens. Like I understand why a lot of people aren't interested in or hold their noses at something like 40k, and to be fair more books are dogshit than not, but the best ones are every bit as good as the best scifi classics and it's sad to me Abnett doesn't get recognition as one of the scifi pantheon when he absolutely should. The man can write.
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Nov 6, 2023 16:08
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Kylaer posted:Chelys galactica is a native species of the Ultima Segmentum and is common enough there as to be unremarkable. Seeing one in Solar or Pacificus would raise some eyebrows but they're not unheard of. I mean they were but turns out their shells make good void shield components so
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Nov 6, 2023 16:39
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Kylaer posted:The Black Rage never affected Sanguinius himself, IIRC, it was something specifically that affected his gene-line starting with his death. And it's foreshadowed that it's about to hit, in Fafnir Rann's last fragment. The book stops at the moment of Sanguinius' death so I'm guessing the Black Rage will hit at the opening of Volume 3. Horus is literally about to crucify him, it's definitely going to be a ritualistic desecration that triggers it. Horus described the altar and everything.
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Nov 6, 2023 17:23
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Demiurge4 posted:Horus is literally about to crucify him, it's definitely going to be a ritualistic desecration that triggers it. Horus described the altar and everything. Now I’m wondering how much of the black rage will be a consequence of Big E’s reaction to what he finds rather than a direct “channeling” of sanguinius in his last moments
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Nov 6, 2023 17:32
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0konner posted:Now I’m wondering how much of the black rage will be a consequence of Big E’s reaction to what he finds rather than a direct “channeling” of sanguinius in his last moments Maybe the black rage is spread across all the angels to prevent its power from going into in one single being?
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Nov 6, 2023 18:08
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Finished. Superb. January can't come soon enough for Vol 3. Demiurge4 posted:Volume II basically confirms an older plot line the star child and I want to revise another theory I have with the Bequin trilogy based off of it. Spoilers for Dawn of Fire series in relation to the TeatD 2 in the quote above: The star child is a plot point in the Dawn of Fire series and has been born as of the end of the last book (or maybe the one before that?) He's born on a beach on a paradise planet at the very end. The Hand of Abaddon is searching for him throughout his appearances in the series. Demiurge4 posted:Because Sanguinius hasn’t shown any sign of the black rage before or after the fight. He’s dead now so whatever it is, Horus is about to inflict it on his dead body and ghost. I’ve also had the dumb idea that Eisenhorns pet daemonhost is a piece of Sanguinius. But that’s only based on its name being Cherubael. Demiurge4 posted:Horus is literally about to crucify him, it's definitely going to be a ritualistic desecration that triggers it. Horus described the altar and everything. Sanguinius does not ever have the black rage himself. It is an echo of his death suffered by his sons. Abnett foreshadows its about to happen in the final Fafnir Rann paragraphs. Also Sanguinius is stone cold dead at the end, the demons scurry out of the darkness to crucify him but it's not like he is alive to be affected by it.
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Nov 6, 2023 22:28
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So here's a question. I know it might be a moot point given they're Warp entities and don't exactly "age" like astartes but how old would the primarchs have been during the Crusade and the Heresy? At least in terms of how long they inhabited realspace in a physical form. Are we talking decades, centuries, millennia? Is it possible that there are current day Marines who have been on active duty longer than Rowboat was around prior to his 10000 year stasis nap?
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Nov 6, 2023 23:52
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