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I just remembered I actually wanted to reply as I have the same insulation and the 1970's "The Energy Saver" makes me smile every time.
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Nov 30, 2023 18:59
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Steve French posted:Insulation question: my house has almost entirely cathedral ceilings, except over the two (adjacent) bathrooms, where there's a small attic. The insulation problem is manifested clearly in this photo: I don't have specific advice about your problem but one thing that's letting that insulation sag down is that normally you'd fold out the paper on the edges (where it's doubled up) and then staple that to the wood on either side. It's just hanging down all wonky in your photos and doesn't seem to be folded out there, like someone just stuffed the fiberglass up there and figured it was good enough. With the paper out it helps make it harder for air to get in between the wood and fiberglass and make gaps. Whether you want to actually insulate the top roof is a different question that other goons will have better advice for. In our roof the ceiling of the house is insulated but not the top roof itself. This keeps the attic as unconditioned space. Either way you go it's just sagging out of those joists so pretty much anything would be better. I'd probably figure out what the rest of the attic is set up like and copy it.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:07
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StormDrain posted:I just remembered I actually wanted to reply as I have the same insulation and the 1970's "The Energy Saver" makes me smile every time. This is the dadliest post in the whole thread. I say that with admiration, not as an insult
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Nov 30, 2023 19:08
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I've been wrestling with a mouse problem. I can hear one scratching around at night sometimes. I laid out traps in the part of the attic I could access, but haven't had any luck. So today, I brought out the ladder and stuck my camera into the harder-to-access space, and saw this: No clue if there's signs of mice there, but...that's daylight. Huh. So I go outside and look up and see this:  That there is a vent with no cap. gently caress  On the "plus side", I'm pretty sure this is a very recent development. I was awakened two nights ago by a loud clattering sound, which in retrospect was probably the cap blowing off. So there probably isn't too much water intrusion, and capping the vent off should be all the repairs needed. (It's hard to actually get bodily into this attic space, hence why I only stuck an arm with my camera up there) On the minus side, I'm planning to sell this place soon. Why couldn't all this poo poo have broken six months later?
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Nov 30, 2023 19:11
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If you are going to insulate up at the roof sheeting you need to ensure that there is a couple inches of free air passage all the way from the soffit vents at the edges of the roof to a ridge vent at the top of the roof. Otherwise what will happen in the winter is some heat will leak up through conduction by the rafters or through a small gap in the insulation and cause snow to melt. The meltwater will then run down the roof until it gets to the unheated overhang over the soffits where it freezes into an ice dam which will hold pooled meltwater on top of your roof. The overlapping edges of shingles are intended to keep out flowing water, not stagnant water. If it were me, and I didn't need the attic as storage space, I would air seal the poo poo out of everything and then throw some very thick bats up on top of the ceiling.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:13
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Steve French posted:I am thinking that I should: Generally good, a few small notes that assume your code is some recent version of the IRC: 1. The fiberglass you install should be unfaced (no paper). If you install fiberglass with the paper facing you'll probably install it with the paper on the 'up' side and you could get dinged in the future for fire risk issues and have to rip the paper off 2. The XPS may need to have an 'ignition barrier' over the inside face. You almost certainly don't need a 'fire barrier' because it's a reasonably inaccessible attic, and they keep adding more exceptions for 'ignition barriers', but I think most jurisdictions would require one in this circumstance. If you want to cover the wall batts with an insulating layer I would use dense roxul boards instead (roxul comfortboard for example). 3. Pull the roof insulation, mostly because it's really poorly installed and it will be easier to move around in there with it gone. It also shouldn't be installed where it is installed because this attic should be ventilated (but may not be) and the point of that ventilation is to get air flow over the interior side of the roof sheathing which the existing insulation will block. If there isn't any moisture issues in the attic I don't think adding ventilation is worth your time, just pointing out something you may not have thought about yet. I'm guessing the structure has enough air leakage that it doesn't have any problems (this is the case with most older buildings). 4. I'm guessing that metal duct is a bathroom exhaust fan, insulate it inside the attic. The concern is that with the new insulation the attic (and therefore the duct) will get cold enough above the new insulation that the wet bathroom exhaust air will start condensing on the interior of the duct and running back down into the bath fan. So you insulate the duct so it doesn't get cold enough for that to happen (hopefully) 5. You probably can't get to most modern code's requirements for attic insulation thickness, but anything you do is an improvement and worth your time
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Nov 30, 2023 19:23
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StormDrain posted:That all seems good and maybe even overkill, but I also understand you live in a very cold region. Anything you do is better than what you have though. Personally, I'd get a lot of thick batts and lay them in there on the ceiling adn call that good. Typically the roof is uninsulated from the bottom and that exterior wall doesn't make any difference if it's insulated or not because it's outside of the insulated building space. More very snowy than very cold, at least by the standards of what I consider Actually Cold parts of the country. Overnight lows rarely below zero, and daytime it's rare not to get at least into the 20s. To clarify, the wall is not an exterior wall, there is no exterior wall in the attic. The wall goes into the hallways, which (like 100% of the rest of the house) has cathedral ceilings, which is why I want to insulate that too. armorer posted:If you want to use that attic space to store anything long term, I would insulate the ceiling. If it's going to just be a void, then I would leave it as unconditioned space like you said. It looks kinda like the ceiling there was originally insulated and they tore out some batts (and/or some fell out) in the construction of the bathroom. Pretty sure this is how the house was originally built in 1982 and hasn't been updated since then; the rafters were definitely originally insulated and many still are, and a lot fell out because it wasn't installed well. But yeah have absolutely no intention of storing anything there, and wasn't going to bother improving the insulation in the rafters, was just maybe going to not bother doing anything with it. Rexxed posted:I don't have specific advice about your problem but one thing that's letting that insulation sag down is that normally you'd fold out the paper on the edges (where it's doubled up) and then staple that to the wood on either side. It's just hanging down all wonky in your photos and doesn't seem to be folded out there, like someone just stuffed the fiberglass up there and figured it was good enough. With the paper out it helps make it harder for air to get in between the wood and fiberglass and make gaps. Yep, I think I have a good idea of how the rafters should be insulated if I wanted them to be; and I'm pretty sure I don't, and the insulation in here was just poorly thought out from day 1. Shifty Pony posted:If you are going to insulate up at the roof sheeting you need to ensure that there is a couple inches of free air passage all the way from the soffit vents at the edges of the roof to a ridge vent at the top of the roof. Yep, not going to insulate at the roof sheeting. There are soffit vents, but to be honest I'm not sure if there is a ridge vent anywhere; I haven't seen indications of one but might not be looking at it right. And quite familiar with ice dams as a problem; if you look closely at the exterior photo I shared you'll see the heat tape up there. What would you suggest for air sealing? What should I be thinking about in terms of moisture/vapor barriers? I can never get straight where those are supposed to be in different situations. FWIW while we get a lot of snow in the winter by and large it's quite dry, humidity wise, here. Tezer posted:Generally good, a few small notes that assume your code is some recent version of the IRC: Thanks for the paper facing tip; I knew to have paper facing conditioned space if I had it, but will just make sure to get it without paper. Thanks for the tip on roxul boards; any particular reason you'd prefer those over XPS? Good tip also on removing the rafter insulation, I'll definitely consider just ripping it out now. The metal duct is the gas water heater exhaust, the PVC pipe is the furnace intake and exhaust, the ABS pipe is the plumbing vent, and the flex duct laid across the floor of the attic is the bath fan exhaust (only one of the two bathrooms has one, for some reason...). I guess I'll just leave that in place and lay the batts loosely on top of it? Any alternative recommendations?
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Nov 30, 2023 19:51
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Steve French posted:Yep, not going to insulate at the roof sheeting. There are soffit vents, but to be honest I'm not sure if there is a ridge vent anywhere; I haven't seen indications of one but might not be looking at it right. And quite familiar with ice dams as a problem; if you look closely at the exterior photo I shared you'll see the heat tape up there. What would you suggest for air sealing? What should I be thinking about in terms of moisture/vapor barriers? I can never get straight where those are supposed to be in different situations. FWIW while we get a lot of snow in the winter by and large it's quite dry, humidity wise, here. The scope of your project is limited and trying to address vapor barriers, etc. is probably out of scope. Broadly, given these areas are above bathrooms you want to stop warm wet air from getting into the attic space. When you remove the insulation turn off the lights in the attic and look for light leaking from below. Make this light disappear and you've improved your air barrier (to the extent reasonable given the original project scope, see some other locations to seal that don't leak light in the PDF below). Make sure the bathroom fan duct is sealed at all transitions and not spraying warm air into the attic. Seal the access hatch you are using to get into the space. https://buildingscience.com/sites/default/files/migrate/pdf/GM_Attic_Air_Sealing_Guide_and_Details.pdf There are ways to reduce vapor transmission, but they are more difficult to complete without a lot of access to framing and the low hanging fruit is air control so concentrate on that. quote:Thanks for the paper facing tip; I knew to have paper facing conditioned space if I had it, but will just make sure to get it without paper. Thanks for the tip on roxul boards; any particular reason you'd prefer those over XPS? Good tip also on removing the rafter insulation, I'll definitely consider just ripping it out now. You only are told to rip paper off insulation one time and it's burned into your memory  If you buy the type with paper you can put it paper down (facing conditioned space), it just isn't doing a great job of what it's supposed to do (vapor barrier) and it's easy to go 'lets make it look neat and install paper up' and then you've got a problem.I recommend roxul because it doesn't require an ignition barrier and XPS does. XPS is the better insulator though. I think there are one or two specialty foam materials that are designed to not require an ignition barrier (Dow Thermax I think?). Check with your plumber regarding that water heater exhaust as you may need to keep insulation away from it. I'm almost certain you do, but I hesitate to give advice on exhaust systems over the internet due to the consequences of a mistake. Have someone with expertise look at it. There are some examples of air sealing exhausts in the PDF linked above as well to give you some ideas of what might need to be done. The flex duct for the exhaust probably isn't doing much (if a flex duct isn't stretched straight the air flow is severely restricted). If you bury it under the floor insulation it will deform and if you stick it on top of the floor insulation the duct needs to be insulated which you can't really do with that kind of flex duct. So in the end you'll end up replacing it. I recommend going to a pre-insulated flex duct, that way whether it's buried in the insulation or not you're covered.
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Nov 30, 2023 20:59
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Tezer posted:The flex duct for the exhaust probably isn't doing much (if a flex duct isn't stretched straight the air flow is severely restricted). If you bury it under the floor insulation it will deform and if you stick it on top of the floor insulation the duct needs to be insulated which you can't really do with that kind of flex duct. So in the end you'll end up replacing it. I recommend going to a pre-insulated flex duct, that way whether it's buried in the insulation or not you're covered. Gotcha, I think maybe I'll just insulate below it and plan to replace with a pre-insulated one, and replace the fan with something newer and better while I'm at it. Thanks a ton for all the input everyone, awesome to have so much great advice so quickly.
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Nov 30, 2023 21:29
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Welp, I hope everyone got their tru-tone orders in before today because Technology Connections (2.14M subscribers) just name dropped them hard with an unpaid endorsement.
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Nov 30, 2023 22:59
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Calidus posted:Anyone used Trusscore products before? It’s basically PVC sheets that are function as drywall replacement. It’s appealing for trying to make a basement kid proof and saves me from doing drywall. Not them specifically but PVC type wallboard. It's nice stuff for wet areas or hard wear areas that need to look nicer than plywood. We used a lot of it for the bottom couple feet of the bottom floors of multiple buildings in a flood zone so it was easy to remove, dry out, replace insulation and reinstall. H110Hawk posted:I ran by the other day to have a peak. It's so dumb. I only had a minute and didn't want to walk along the now railing-free subfloor-missing area to get more pictures. Basically this in seemingly every other joist bay: lol if that's hard to re-run just throw a tyco splice in there and it will be safe and to code. But what a dumb thing to do.
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Nov 30, 2023 23:43
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Motronic posted:lol if that's hard to re-run just throw a tyco splice in there and it will be safe and to code. But what a dumb thing to do. Thankfully(?) I have to pull new circuits anyway because the kitchen was wired, well, by the person who pulled those wires. The T&M on this bid is starting to get eye watering. Thankfully my current electrician seems to know what they're doing. And there is frankly almost no drywall between there and the main panel. Speaking of which their PE came by and says we have to sister all the cross members in the garage to add the solar panel load to the roof above it.
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Dec 1, 2023 00:53
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Goofy question- we just bought a house where the previous owner, bless their heart, cut a bunch of thru-wall AC holes instead of installing central air into their existing ductwork. We’re planning to close the holes up in the spring when we work on the siding, but in the meantime we have one wall hole that has a Too Small AC in it, leaving big gaps around the edge of it. I can’t find a product that is made to plug/cap these holes without an AC in there- does it exist? Aside from j’am the hole with additional insulation and hope for the best’, how can we best hold out until we fix it for real in the spring?
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Dec 1, 2023 01:38
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Shifty Pony posted:Welp, I hope everyone got their tru-tone orders in before today because Technology Connections (2.14M subscribers) just name dropped them hard with an unpaid endorsement. He’s been talking about them for a couple years now, I believe it’s part of how they took off.
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Dec 1, 2023 02:27
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BadSamaritan posted:I can’t find a product that is made to plug/cap these holes without an AC in there- does it exist? Aside from j’am the hole with additional insulation and hope for the best’, how can we best hold out until we fix it for real in the spring? Rigid foam and aluminum tape.
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Dec 1, 2023 03:02
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When we moved into the house about 4-5 years ago there was a water leak from the fridge. We cannot recall anything about the leak other than it was occurring on the 1st floor where the fridge was and not the basement where the supply line connects. We just replaced the fridge and its in operation. I did want to try to connect the internal water and icemaker at some point. Right now I am confident that the gate valve connecting the supply line is fine. I am not sure about the copper line left in place / should I use as is or replace as well?   I don't think this is beyond my plumbing skills, but just wanting to get an opinion / info before I purchase anything. Should I be trying to replace everything from the gate valve to the fridge, or should I just put that copper line back in service and then get whatever sort of adapter / water supply line I need to connect from the copper to the fridge?
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Dec 1, 2023 17:22
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Keep using the copper. I would consider replacing the gate valve with a 1/4-turn valve, and you should replace the compression fitting that's on the copper line (usually by cutting off that portion of the copper) . Copper is the best, most durable material for icemaker lines.
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Dec 1, 2023 20:06
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It would probably work but you’ll spend a bunch of time finding adapters and stuff if it was me I would just replace it with whatever is on the main line. If it’s pex replace the pex and put a new valve in it. When you combine two different materials they tend to expand differently which can cause leaks. But then again you could do it and it would last 20 years. Pex isn’t that much and it’s easy to install but copper is a little more finicky.
Invalid Validation fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 20:10
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H110Hawk posted:I ran by the other day to have a peak. It's so dumb. Updated in the wiring thread because I wanted the electricians to dream about aluminum wires: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3090739&pagenumber=479&perpage=40&userid=0#post536298237
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Dec 2, 2023 17:49
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Turned on the christmas lights today, here they're running perhaps 80 volts.    Got the variac done just in time for this, well I got it working, I still haven't gotten the ammeter and voltmeter yet for the enclosure front. 
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Dec 2, 2023 18:41
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 The last few years I've run lights with the plastic clips that go on the gutters or tab under the shingles, and every year I say I'm not doing it that way again. Trying some stainless hooks screwed into the soffit, did a small section and will see how it looks after dark. Hope my wife thinks it looks good, it'll make my like infitinitely easier just leaving the hooks up all year and being able to put them up and down without getting on the roof very much.
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Dec 2, 2023 19:33
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Speaking of insulation... I had a home energy audit this week. They flagged the poorly insulated ceiling, straight up missing batts in some areas. The recommendation was to have the attic sealed, fix the batts, then blow in insulation. This would likely address issue with uninsulated cantilevers. This isn't something I'm really interested in tackling myself. My question is, does anyone have experience with the federal tax credits available? Seems like the ARRA and IRA provide free money, but there is too much noise online to find the right data. (I also did an electrical panel replacement earlier, trying to find if that qualifies for anything.) So any DIY/tax pros in the thread?
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Dec 2, 2023 20:53
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SirPablo posted:Speaking of insulation... I had a home energy audit this week. They flagged the poorly insulated ceiling, straight up missing batts in some areas. The recommendation was to have the attic sealed, fix the batts, then blow in insulation. This would likely address issue with uninsulated cantilevers. This isn't something I'm really interested in tackling myself. My question is, does anyone have experience with the federal tax credits available? Seems like the ARRA and IRA provide free money, but there is too much noise online to find the right data. (I also did an electrical panel replacement earlier, trying to find if that qualifies for anything.) https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/home-energy-tax-credits Does this help? I believe you just need receipts.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:16
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H110Hawk posted:https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/home-energy-tax-credits Does this help? I believe you just need receipts. Thanks will dig in. I want to cash in before the end of the year since there are annual caps but no lifetime caps, if I've read things correctly.
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Dec 3, 2023 02:04
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There may also be rebates with your utility. Here in suburban Chicago there was a decent utility rebate, and the company I went with ended up doing all that for me.
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Dec 3, 2023 02:55
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Looking through that, it sounds like only the materials count for the tax credit. The invoice I got after the job called out the material cost at least.
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Dec 3, 2023 03:04
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Eeyo posted:Looking through that, it sounds like only the materials count for the tax credit. The invoice I got after the job called out the material cost at least. Labor is included, your personal time is free though. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deducti...its-labor-costs
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Dec 3, 2023 03:24
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Someone groundtruth my thoughts please. I have a formal dining room we use as an office/playroom. There’s no doors to that room, as shown here:  I was thinking of doing French doors, but the room is so small that when those doors open, it will cut into the space quite a bit. I was going to do a pocket door, but no room since I have a baseboard heater and outlets in the walls. I was thinking a huge barn door, but I can’t for the same reasons. Now my galaxy brain started thinking: what if I close up the current door a bit by installing some framing/drywall and then doing a single barn door. The current opening is 59”, so if I close that to 30”, I think I should be able to get a 36” barn door and juuuust make it work. Like, the open space will be 30” and the remainder (where the barn door sits when it’s open), will be exactly 36”. This is also going to depend on how accurate the framing is completed, ensuring the opening of the door is exactly 30”. Doing what I have in my head will allow 3” overlap on each side of the trim, which I see is recommended. Anything I’m missing? Here’s a lovely schematic not drawn at all to scale, but the measurements are correct. 
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Dec 3, 2023 03:44
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If a contractor is trying to push a "lets schedule a time for both you and your wife to be here so we can discuss the work and quote" angle after already doing their initial inspection I'm fully justified in telling them to get hosed, right? Because I can't think of any reason for that other than as a setup for a high pressure sales pitch.
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Dec 3, 2023 03:47
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Shifty Pony posted:If a contractor is trying to push a "lets schedule a time for both you and your wife to be here so we can discuss the work and quote" angle after already doing their initial inspection I'm fully justified in telling them to get hosed, right? Because I can't think of any reason for that other than as a setup for a high pressure sales pitch. Yes. I’m just going to tell all window salesman that I’m divorced from now on so they stop that bullshit.
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Dec 3, 2023 03:53
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nwin posted:Someone groundtruth my thoughts please. What function will the door serve? The easiest thing to put there is a pair of panelled bifold doors. You'll lose a little leeway, but they take up less space than French doors and require no modification to that opening or the wall. If you are serious about narrowing the leeway to maybe 30", consider a sliding door. Not a pocket, but a panel-style rather than glass.
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Dec 3, 2023 03:55
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nwin posted:Someone groundtruth my thoughts please. What about a set of bifold or trifold doors?  I know a lot of people don't care for them but I think they are preferable over a barn door.
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Dec 3, 2023 04:00
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I guess I’m just failing to see how the open French doors are going to be a problem with the size of that room.
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Dec 3, 2023 04:02
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Shifty Pony posted:I know a lot of people don't care for them but I think they are preferable over a barn door. I mean so is bare tack strip for carpet.
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Dec 3, 2023 04:05
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H110Hawk posted:Labor is included, your personal time is free though. It sounds like labor is included for some things, but not for others. It says quote:In contrast, a taxpayer may not include the labor costs for qualified energy efficient building envelope components including a qualifying insulation material or system, exterior window, skylight, or exterior door. However, you're right that you can count the labor for appliances and such (heaters, AC, water heaters, or electrical work [idk what counts towards electrical work]).
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Dec 3, 2023 04:15
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Can you post a pic of this? I'm having a hard time visualizing it from the description. I know this is super late, but I got sick and wasn't able to take pictures. PainterOfCrap already shared his, but here are mine that I made, which are slightly different, but same idea.    I had to redo some staples this year, but it took me about 30 minutes total to do this run on the garage and another run across the house that's maybe 2x as long. This makes light hanging such a breeze as opposed to a chore that I hated to do.
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Dec 3, 2023 04:25
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PainterofCrap posted:What function will the door serve? The door will serve for privacy mainly. When my kids wake up and my visiting guests are still sleeping, they won’t be running straight in the room to wake up the guests. Bifold doors are something I hadn’t thought of, but it reminds us too much of a closet and we don’t like the aesthetics. However the sliding door seems like the way to go, and much cheaper than framing the wall and the buying a barn door.
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Dec 3, 2023 04:31
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nwin posted:The door will serve for privacy mainly. When my kids wake up and my visiting guests are still sleeping, they won’t be running straight in the room to wake up the guests. Would curtains work for privacy? You could only put them up when you have guests. Just throwing out ideas here.
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Dec 3, 2023 05:04
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That Works posted:When we moved into the house about 4-5 years ago there was a water leak from the fridge. We cannot recall anything about the leak other than it was occurring on the 1st floor where the fridge was and not the basement where the supply line connects. We just replaced the fridge and its in operation. I did want to try to connect the internal water and icemaker at some point. Hey so unless there's a type of pex I'm not aware of that's expansion and also crimp at the same time, you've got an unholy abomination that should not be. It looks like that's a stub of expansion pex based on the coloring and the white ring near the joint coming out of the insulation. Then they crimped that down to what looks like a nipple of some kind maybe soldered into that gate valve, based on the coloration? It's one of those things that maybe it's working fine and may continue to work fine but I just wanted to point it out.
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Dec 3, 2023 05:21
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TacoHavoc posted:Hey so unless there's a type of pex I'm not aware of that's expansion and also crimp at the same time, you've got an unholy abomination that should not be. It looks like that's a stub of expansion pex based on the coloring and the white ring near the joint coming out of the insulation. Then they crimped that down to what looks like a nipple of some kind maybe soldered into that gate valve, based on the coloration? Hah! Good to know that its weird. Thankfully its not a problem (so far). Looks like the entire issue in the past was on the connection to the old fridge. The weirdly attached valve was fine at least.
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Dec 3, 2023 11:17
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