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Skyfall is still fun for, as it's been described, Bond basically trying on different styles of character like different suits. Especially suddenly becoming Scottish Batman complete with his ancestral manor and his own Alfred. And then an ending that comes off more like a Western siege/shootout.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:14
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man nurse posted:For me they’re hard to go back too because they’re so camp. It’s the epitome of the stereotype of “James bond secret agent man uses the gadgets and cars and gets the girl” to the point of self parody. I used to really like them, but after I read all the books and began to appreciate stuff like Dalton’s films more, it wasn’t doing it for me. Certainly some of his films are well done, or have particular moments that are memorable. He’s the epitome of what you think of when people offhandedly mention James Bond as the silver screen secret agent guy. They’re the pinnacle of that particular era of spy film. One can make a good argument that after Die Another Day, they needed to turn Bond in a more serious, realistic direction. But we've done Craig's "Bond is a depressed alcoholic government assassin" for nearly two decades now! Just like it was a time for a change then, it's time for a change now. Bond needs to be differentiated from the sexless spy-action of Ethan Hunt and return to what makes the character unique.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:18
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Craig really overstayed his welcome especially with how long his movies took to come out. Does not help that his first movie was an intro, the second a fumbled continuation of the intro, and then he has three films that are trying to send him off. The dude never had a chance to be prime Bond only newbie Bond and Too Tired for this poo poo Bond
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Dec 4, 2023 03:53
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My judgement of the newer films has also been impacted heavily by how much better the YRF and Mission Impossible movies have been. MI has always been its own thing generally so it's not in the convo as much despite being the most obvious competition but the YRF spy universe despite borrowing liberally from other films, is way more fun and exhilarating than what Bonds been on lately. And those movies are coming out yearly.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:57
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The Craig movies have a similar problem to the JJTrek movies: the progression in them feels unearned. It feels like you're dropped in the beginning and the middle/end of the story without much to support it aside from the history in the films coming before Casino Royale. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 04:04
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The Craig movies have a similar problem to the JJTrek movies: the progression in them feels unearned. It feels like you're dropped in the beginning and the middle/end of the story without much to support it aside from the history in the films coming before Casino Royale. Seems like a common problem in modern cinema, the MCU really feels the same way a lot of the time. Like, there's barely any time shown for there to be a status quo before they start shaking it up.
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Dec 4, 2023 04:47
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Professor Shark posted:I’m watching A View to Kill right now and just watched the scene where Bond makes dinner for the Bond Girl. He makes her a quiche… because he only knows how to make breakfast It's also speculated that it was meant to be a jab at "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche", a very popular book that was MEANT to be a parody of masculine stereotypes that people ended up taking seriously.
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Dec 4, 2023 08:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Seems like a common problem in modern cinema, the MCU really feels the same way a lot of the time. Like, there's barely any time shown for there to be a status quo before they start shaking it up. My original comment was going to point out that writing in modern TV and movies seems to fall into one of two categories 1. JJTrek/Craig Bond films: Rely on years of familiarity with (a) character(s) and tell, don't show, a character's progression. 2. Some modern Star Trek/Wars: Long-winded overexplanations of mysterious events in a series' or character's personal history until they're mundane and not especially interesting. I'm not sure how much of it is writers not knowing how to write and how much is studio execs who are idiots (the Classic Star Trek thread suggested the latter).
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Dec 4, 2023 15:04
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The Craig movies have a similar problem to the JJTrek movies: the progression in them feels unearned. It feels like you're dropped in the beginning and the middle/end of the story without much to support it aside from the history in the films coming before Casino Royale. The timeskip did annoy me at first but to me the Craig Bonds seem like an anthology series that, yes, does kind of assume or adapt older films. Less of a linear progression and just more their take on how Bond might start out, how it would be for him to be down & out, how might ------- he finally die ------- (No Time to Die spoilers). Not that I think that was the intention but just how I prefer to view them. Part of the problem nowadays is that they probably can't let Bond just be episodic with adventures mostly unrelated to each other. Everything nowadays has to be serial storytelling.
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Dec 4, 2023 15:40
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man nurse posted:It’s a shame it’s such a boring movie because the setting and cast for the rogues gallery should’ve been fire. Roger’s age also doesn’t help My favorite part of the movie (outside of the opening song), is when the lead villain, Zorin, has a meeting with some investors, and one guy wants out.  So he's asked to step outside, and May Day opens a trap door, only to be dropped out of blimp.  Like, did they know they were in a blimp? Because I sure didn't know they were in a blimp. The reveal comes out of nowhere.
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Dec 4, 2023 15:46
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It's a pretty cool scene, but it's almost beat for beat a remake of the 'Oddjob's crushing engagement' scene from Goldfinger.
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Dec 4, 2023 15:50
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Isn't that the point? Reveal to the audience in a dramatic way that Zorrin is on a blimp?
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Dec 4, 2023 15:51
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Lobok posted:Isn't that the point? Reveal to the audience in a dramatic way that Zorrin is on a blimp? Sure, which is why I find it so funny.
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Dec 4, 2023 16:05
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The real question is did the investors know they were on a blimp?
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Dec 4, 2023 17:15
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AceOfFlames posted:It's also speculated that it was meant to be a jab at "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche", a very popular book that was MEANT to be a parody of masculine stereotypes that people ended up taking seriously. 10 years after the film, that guy wrote for the first three Brosnan Bond films and 4 Bond video games. Life is weird sometimes. Also, I don't want to dismiss anyone's assertions about the bond films having similar issues to the JJTrek films insofar as they exist in a similar media landscape and are informed by certain trends brought on by the MCU / Lord of the Rings and the increased viability of multiple movie series, etc. However, it might not be super fruitful considering that those JJTrek movies are loving terrible. (Though I recall the third one being decent.) It's been said before but one major similarity between the two is (Into Darkness and Spectre spoilers) they have a very similar stupid identity reveal plot point that does not work within the text of the film, only to people who recognize the name from previous media. It's a bad habit we probably want to blame on the MCU but Into Darkness was only 1 year after Avengers was released so I'm not sure if that timeline tracks with any production schedule.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:14
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thrawn527 posted:My favorite part of the movie (outside of the opening song), is when the lead villain, Zorin, has a meeting with some investors, and one guy wants out. So... there's something that has always bothered me about Zorin's blimp. If you look at the cabin of this blimp compared to the one where the big standoff at the Golden Gate Bridge occurs... They're significantly different in layout and size. Does this mean Zorin has multiple blimps? Certainly both of the blimps have aircraft registration numbers... so does that mean the FAA was aware of said blimps? Does he have more than two that are masquerading as buildings/offices? To answer your question... I don't think they knew they were in a blimp, hence the guy's surprise to being dropped into the drink and makes Zorin's snark about "stepping outside" even more wild. But then you have to ask, how did they not know they were in a blimp? Wouldn't the movement tip them off that something wasn't right? What about the droning of the engines?
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Dec 4, 2023 18:37
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Maybe Zorin had two: the Business Class Blimp and the Perpetrating Evil Plot Blimp.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:41
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Spring told the guy that Mayday would show him where the coffee was, so I think he thought he was going to another room.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:56
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Zorrin really liked your ideas. Wants to put you on the radio. Really?! I think so. He said you needed some airtime. Right this way.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:58
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thrawn527 posted:My favorite part of the movie (outside of the opening song), is when the lead villain, Zorin, has a meeting with some investors, and one guy wants out. Do you not always assume scenes are set on blimps? Without contradictory information I always assume characters are within or around a blimp.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:59
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Gaius Marius posted:Do you not always assume scenes are set on blimps? Without contradictory information I always assume characters are within or around a blimp. You know what, I really should do this, moving forward.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:06
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Professor Shark posted:Spring told the guy that Mayday would show him where the coffee was, so I think he thought he was going to another room. Not exactly... Zorin says that the rest of the conversation is confidential and would the guy wait outside. He then quips that Mayday will provide him with a drink. After killing the guy, Zorin asks if anyone else wants to drop out.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:15
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DarkSol posted:Not exactly... Zorin says that the rest of the conversation is confidential and would the guy wait outside. He then quips that Mayday will provide him with a drink. After killing the guy, Zorin asks if anyone else wants to drop out. Shortly after, Zorin and May Day look out a window at the Golden Gate bridge. May Day says, “Wow, what a view.” To which Zorin says, “Yes, a view to a kill.” To this day, I have no idea what that means. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 23:16
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thrawn527 posted:Shortly after, Zorin and May Day look out a window at the Golden Gate bridge. May Day says, “Wow, what a view.” To which Zorin says, “Yes, a view to a kill.” To this day, I have no idea what that means. Just a way to sneak the name of the movie into the film's dialog. Kind of like how Dalton Bond quips about "scaring the living daylights" out of Kara when he doesn't snipe her, just way more clunky and nonsensical.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:22
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DarkSol posted:Just a way to sneak the name of the movie into the film's dialog. Kind of like how Dalton Bond quips about "scaring the living daylights" out of Kara when he doesn't snipe her, just way more clunky and nonsensical. Sure, but if they were trying to explain the weird name of the movie, they failed. It could maybe mean something as a sniper (like that great scene from the movie you mentioned, Dalton's The Living Daylights).  (I really love this scene.) Like how a sniper looking through a scope has a "view to a kill". But this is just nonsense. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 23:23
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thrawn527 posted:Sure, but if they were trying to explain the weird name of the movie, they failed. If they took out the second "a" in the title, it would work so much better, considering the plot.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:26
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DarkSol posted:Just a way to sneak the name of the movie into the film's dialog. Kind of like how Dalton Bond quips about "scaring the living daylights" out of Kara when he doesn't snipe her, just way more clunky and nonsensical. Dalton's poo poo eating grin as he drops the name of the film is the apex of the bond series
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Dec 5, 2023 21:37
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thrawn527 posted:Shortly after, Zorin and May Day look out a window at the Golden Gate bridge. May Day says, “Wow, what a view.” To which Zorin says, “Yes, a view to a kill.” To this day, I have no idea what that means. The Fleming short story is called "From a View to a Kill" and it takes its name from an old hunting song. They dropped the "from" because it's cleaner.
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Dec 5, 2023 21:46
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pretty soft girl posted:Dalton's poo poo eating grin as he drops the name of the film is the apex of the bond series  In fact, I'll go one further than that. Dalton was the apex of the Bond series. 
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Dec 6, 2023 02:50
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DarkSol posted:
As Bond. OHMSS is the peak of the films
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Dec 6, 2023 02:59
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Gaius Marius posted:As Bond. OHMSS is the peak of the films I'm torn between that and FYEO. Probably OHMSS squeaks by because Moore was too old for Bond by the time FYEO came out.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:44
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Quite frankly, and I'm pretty sure I've said this before: Moore should have quit after Moonraker. FYEO is an underrated movie but Moore was just getting too old even by that point. The reason Moore didn't retire is less ego than the fact that he was actually quite popular and fans wanted him back again and again.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:46
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FYEO is almost annoying because it shows how incredible Moore's run could have been if he had better, less goofy writing and directors. It's still by and by far Moore's best film although I wouldn't rate it over Daltons 2 OHMSS or From Russia or Thunderball. I'm probably the biggest Thunderball fan in the thread though
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Dec 6, 2023 06:53
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DarkSol posted:Just a way to sneak the name of the movie into the film's dialog. Kind of like how Dalton Bond quips about "scaring the living daylights" out of Kara when he doesn't snipe her, just way more clunky and nonsensical. That's taken straight from the original short story that was basically adapted into the cold opening, incidentally.
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Dec 6, 2023 07:22
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Gaius Marius posted:FYEO is almost annoying because it shows how incredible Moore's run could have been if he had better, less goofy writing and directors. It's still by and by far Moore's best film although I wouldn't rate it over Daltons 2 OHMSS or From Russia or Thunderball. I'm probably the biggest Thunderball fan in the thread though Better than Spy Who Loved Me? That's a genuine question because that's generally seen as one of his best movies. It is good, though, if a bit forgettable.
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Dec 6, 2023 14:02
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Quite frankly, and I'm pretty sure I've said this before: Moore should have quit after Moonraker. FYEO is an underrated movie but Moore was just getting too old even by that point. The reason Moore didn't retire is less ego than the fact that he was actually quite popular and fans wanted him back again and again. I believe this was the original plan which is why the FYEO cold open has Bond visiting his wife's grave. It was supposed to introduce the next actor and reinforce this is the same character.
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Dec 6, 2023 14:18
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Does Tomorrow Never Dies actually get namedropped or was it just Lies, I don't remember.
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Dec 6, 2023 15:06
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Szmitten posted:Does Tomorrow Never Dies actually get namedropped or was it just Lies, I don't remember. I was about to say "it'd be a neat idea for a YouTube to do a compilation of every time a Bond movie title was said in the movie" but leave it to the internet to deny me ever having an original thought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzJ_RJPDJVA Edit: though as the comments point out, it's not even comprehensive!
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Dec 6, 2023 15:23
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Gaius Marius posted:As Bond. OHMSS is the peak of the films I go back and forth on this. It's a really good movie, but I think it has a few things keeping it from being great. Like it's a bit too long. Or that whole section where Bond is undercover and is apparently so good at doing voices, he's dubbed by someone else, making it just feel weird. And Lazenby doesn't feel comfortable in the role, yet. I think he would have grown into it if he had stuck around, but the quips just feel so awkward coming from him. There's a ton of great stuff in it, though. Like how, other than the dubbing, he's really good when undercover. And it does give us the clear inspiration for Austin Powers. 
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Dec 6, 2023 15:51
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Gaius Marius posted:FYEO is almost annoying because it shows how incredible Moore's run could have been if he had better, less goofy writing and directors. It's still by and by far Moore's best film although I wouldn't rate it over Daltons 2 OHMSS or From Russia or Thunderball. I'm probably the biggest Thunderball fan in the thread though I love how dark FYEO is in places. Bond strands a guy underwater to a slow death and kicks a car off a ledge. We're shown a guy blowing up in a diving suit, Blofeld finally getting his just desserts (as a tiny vignette, to boot!), a woman violently being run down, a bunch of mooks getting blown up trying to break into the Lotus. None of the movie feel overly cartoonish or silly like in The Man with the Golden Gun. The only really weird aspect is the interaction between Bond and Bibi, which really highlights that Moore was too old for the role.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:43
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