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Don Quixote or the original hikikomori
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Dec 7, 2023 00:02
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Lobster Henry posted:Maybe you’re right, but I still think it’s a bit of a restrictive definition. There are many different kinds of fandom: there are highly intelligent and literate fans, and there are funko pop collectors, and many shades in between. Lobster Henry posted:Pragmatically, I think you have to shift the emphasis away from generalisations about fan psychology, and back to what shapes these cultures to begin with: modern copyright law, and in particular corporate ownership of stories. I think the only difference between fan fiction and derivative work is the former exists in relation to an “official” version in strictly legal and financial terms. Unfortunately, these terms have quite a lot of power to shape our imaginations. Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 00:52
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fez_machine posted:Don Quixote or the original hikikomori I'm gonna hit you with a wooden spoon, hard
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Dec 7, 2023 01:21
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Jrbg posted:"Personally I find it beautiful that people have always loved stories" read the sluts by dennis cooper I have read that, it's great. It doesn't change my opinion on this though Frankly it surprised me that people got riled up by the fanfiction comparison because fanfiction is usually inconsequential and no threat to anyone. Nobody's making money off it except for that one time that a twilight fanfiction was reborn as a book that middle aged women get off on There's no end of media that exists only to make a profit and contributes nothing other than noise. Let's all go scream at marvel studios instead of the slightly weird teenager who's just trying to create something sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 11:07
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How did this derail even get started?
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Dec 7, 2023 11:43
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uh we were talking about old count of monte cristo fanfiction books and then i said something like 'its cool how we've always been doing fanfic since we were scrawling on cave walls' and someone brought up the arthurian canon as an example
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Dec 7, 2023 11:47
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I read a lot of Evangelion fan fiction back in the day cuz I was 13 years old and obsessed with Evangelion but even then I was keenly aware that none of it was any good. I can't imagine there's been any good fan fiction written in the 25 years since
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Dec 7, 2023 11:54
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I remember reading lots of FF8 fanfiction as a teenager. Some authors tried very hard to develop deep psychological profiles of main characters, I prefered stories with cool battle scenes and explosions.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:05
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Gleisdreieck posted:I remember reading lots of FF8 fanfiction as a teenager. Some authors tried very hard to develop deep psychological profiles of main characters, I prefered stories with cool battle scenes and explosions. I had the same thought while reading Sebald’s The Emigrants
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Dec 7, 2023 13:37
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sharkmafia posted:I have read that, it's great. It doesn't change my opinion on this though No, it's just the case that being creative isn't some inherently nice act that should make me feel warm and gooey inside. Culture is ordinary, and attempts to elevate it on the grounds that it's culture alone is Bad Actually. People are annoyed at listing the gawain poet as fanfiction, but not because they've just never considered that it's highly dependent on its sources. At least one of the details that rankles me about it is that fanfiction is flat-out not a transhistorical phenomenon Jrbg fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 13:51
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Is there a way to define fanfiction based on common elements within the work, not just "produced by fandom" ? Does being produced by fandom lead to it always drawing from a certain set of common elements that would not be present in other types of derivative works?
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Dec 7, 2023 13:56
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It's literature for perverts, by perverts. So, all French literature is fan fiction.
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Dec 7, 2023 14:10
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Jrbg posted:No, it's just the case that being creative isn't some inherently nice act that should make me feel warm and gooey inside. Culture is ordinary, and attempts to elevate it on the grounds that it's culture alone is Bad Actually. People are annoyed at listing the gawain poet as fanfiction, but not because they've just never considered that it's highly dependent on its sources. At least one of the details that rankles me about it is that fanfiction is flat-out not a transhistorical phenomenon Yeah, see, this is the crux. If I had just described it as 'derivative works' as other people are doing this debate would never have happened. The reason why I haven't done that is not simply to annoy people, but because I feel that drawing an arbitrary distinction between examples of the same process in the past (great, wow) and the present (ick, terrible) is pointless. There's a great deal of baggage that leads people to express reflexive distaste for 'fanfiction' but none of it is particularly important to its definition. It's just fiction written by fans, as the name implies. All else is secondary, in my view.
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Dec 7, 2023 16:29
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Fan fiction is called that because it's written by fanatics. Some poem written by someone based on an earlier poem written by someone else is not necessarily or even likely to be crazy about it. They did it for a paycheck or to get laid or both. 50 Sharts of Blecch (hehe) was written by someone who very much was fanatical about the whole thing.
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Dec 7, 2023 16:33
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Oh, also, I am still not trying to say 'theres actually zero difference between good and bad things. you imbecile. you loving moron' Obviously the classics are still way better than random fanfic, but that can be determined by their inherent quality, not by the labels we choose to apply to them sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 16:43
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sharkmafia posted:Oh, also, I am still not trying to say 'theres actually difference between good and bad things. you imbecile. you loving moron' Post your best fanfics
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Dec 7, 2023 16:46
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fridge corn posted:Post your best fanfics I feel like if I call more things that people here like 'fanfic' I'm going to somewhat justifiably end up with a red title and I'm very attached to this avatar so im just going to disengage from this argument at this point although obviously people can feel free to keep responding to me if they want
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Dec 7, 2023 17:18
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i'm glad we have your permission i think i'm about 2 chapters away from finishing Stoner. someone here earlier described it reductively as misery porn and i dont agree. the last couple chapters have been beautiful. the expiration date of the affair has always loomed since near the start but that only adds to arriving at this point
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Dec 7, 2023 17:25
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god, shut up about fanfics in this thread explicitly not about fanfics
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Dec 7, 2023 17:27
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first norwegian nobel in over 90 years weekend is coming up go read the socially inept westcoaster 
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Dec 7, 2023 17:28
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he introduced his lecture with a memory of running out of the classroom in a flight of panic because the teacher asked him to read aloud
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Dec 7, 2023 17:30
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sharkmafia posted:It's just fiction written by fans, as the name implies But if it's written by fans, it's just not the "same process" throughout history, right Like that's why the word isn't useful, it blasts over inconvenient details like that and, in so doing, conveniently paints modern consumerist attitudes as inevitable
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Dec 7, 2023 18:15
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ulvir posted:he introduced his lecture with a memory of running out of the classroom in a flight of panic because the teacher asked him to read aloud does this mean he write fanfiction of himself??????
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Dec 7, 2023 18:16
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Konstantin Lyovin is such a drat Mary Sue it's unbelievable.
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Dec 7, 2023 20:23
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the enemies to lovers plot in Hunger is everything. he has such rizz even though he is deadass a loser full of all the icks and beige flags fr
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Dec 7, 2023 20:25
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in ulysses, gerty is a real pick-me in nausicaa, super problematic 
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Dec 7, 2023 20:30
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Konstantin Lyovin is such a drat Mary Sue it's unbelievable. I like the part where he invents blood and soil nationalism while taking an evening stroll
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Dec 7, 2023 21:04
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what did i miss
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Dec 8, 2023 04:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is there a way to define fanfiction based on common elements within the work, not just "produced by fandom" ? Does being produced by fandom lead to it always drawing from a certain set of common elements that would not be present in other types of derivative works? its bad
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Dec 8, 2023 04:33
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Mel Mudkiper posted:what did i miss Dimestore Duchamp posting nonsense.
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Dec 8, 2023 04:35
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Fan fiction is called that because it's written by fanatics. Some poem written by someone based on an earlier poem written by someone else is not necessarily or even likely to be crazy about it. They did it for a paycheck or to get laid or both. 50 Sharts of Blecch (hehe) was written by someone who very much was fanatical about the whole thing. Hildegard of Bingen was a fanatic. Sade too, kind of.
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Dec 8, 2023 06:00
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Reading Lara by bernardine evaristo and it's not very good. A sort of family history in verse, but neither the history nor the verse is particularly compelling and a lot of it is interspersed with these monologues that sound like corny lines british museums pay actors to read out and that play on a loop when you enter the 'Victorian' room. As in the book's not that far from quote:'Oh, London in 1900 is difficult because I have a
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Dec 8, 2023 10:41
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Jrbg posted:"Personally I find it beautiful that people have always loved stories" read the sluts by dennis cooper Given the book is in part about how online culture is a self-perpetuating spiral of extremes, with each new retelling adding deeper sickness while obscuring the humanity of the subjects/victims under discussion, I think it makes sense that this would come up during a fanfiction derail. Speaking of which, Darryl by Jackie Ess is a little bit of a The Sluts fanfic.
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Dec 9, 2023 08:50
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im reading the complete poems by inger christensen, who is a really great danish poet you should all read. I know a couple of her poetry books have been translated, like it and alphabet, which are both brilliant
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Dec 9, 2023 15:37
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I’ve read both of those collections and they are very fuckin good
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Dec 9, 2023 15:40
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finished Stoner. my goodness. is his Butcher's Crossing as fine?
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Dec 9, 2023 19:43
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sharkmafia posted:I mean, I get it, you don't want to see actual classics compared to terrible bullshit. But nevertheless people adding to the arthurian canon and people writing fanfic about holmes and watson (the ones from the lovely show) kissing are doing the same thing. they're not doing the same thing because the arthurian material is a shared body of loosely defined stories floating around in a largely pre literate culture that could be freely reinterpreted and changed around by any of the storytellers working with it, whereas fanfiction is people who identify themselves as 'fans' responding to monolithic popculture franchises by writing stories of their own that will always be 'unofficial' because those franchises are owned by large companies and bound by copyright law. the idea that a medieval poet who composed a arthurian story with a new character was a 'fan' of the arthurian stories is stupid and completely ahistorical. these texts simply aren't being produced in the same way.
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Dec 10, 2023 04:50
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sharkmafia posted:Yeah, see, this is the crux. If I had just described it as 'derivative works' as other people are doing this debate would never have happened. The reason why I haven't done that is not simply to annoy people, but because I feel that drawing an arbitrary distinction between examples of the same process in the past (great, wow) and the present (ick, terrible) is pointless. There's a great deal of baggage that leads people to express reflexive distaste for 'fanfiction' but none of it is particularly important to its definition. It's just fiction written by fans, as the name implies. All else is secondary, in my view. the concept of a derivative work in the way you're using it doesn't make sense in a premodern context, it's a term used in copyright law. an oral poet working in an epic tradition isn't making derivative works he's drawing on a common corpus of tradition shared by everyone in the culture he's from.
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Dec 10, 2023 04:55
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ulvir posted:im reading the complete poems by inger christensen, who is a really great danish poet you should all read. I know a couple of her poetry books have been translated, like it and alphabet, which are both brilliant Got alphabet just now and hot fuckin drat is it good
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Dec 10, 2023 07:04
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There's a really nice mural of part of Alfabet near me, painted by artist & wrier Dea Trier Mørch Wonder what it's like in English
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Dec 10, 2023 12:06
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