|
Inspector Hound posted:It's not totally outside any sci-fi canon, doesn't Firefly/Serenity take place in one big solar system? The Expanse too, but talk about spaceships that would be awful to fly I think they wanted something more like The Expanse than Firefly, but then there goes the arcade style ship combat.
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 13:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 08:01 |
|
|
Jables88 posted:I'm probably not the first to suggest this, but I wonder how much better Starfield would be if it was restructured as taking place across (say) 8 planets which have all the content squeezed on. It would face the same problem too. Eight planets or a thousand would cause the same issue because planets would be huge and have to be filled via the same procgen system that they continue to have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 14:20
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:It would face the same problem too. Eight planets or a thousand would cause the same issue because planets would be huge and have to be filled via the same procgen system that they continue to have. Only if they don't admit that trying to do expansive, planet-sized exploration is a lot more extra work and not really realistic. Instead, make biggish landing zones, possibly with the help of per-biome tailored procgen, and spend effort on populating those bits well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 14:29
|
|
|
yeah but that would turn into the same problem as well. Any other year it would be fine but this came out directly a month after BG3 and the worst parts of bethesda's writing in this stood out in direct contrast with full on immensely fun characters. My personal highlight of the story of course was the the closest the game came to morrowind levels at pilgrim's rest - which dovetails neatly with the NG+ fluff. It just can't compete with sexual vampire elf.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 14:34
|
|
|
if there's one improvement over FO4 it's that the bounty board radiant quests tell you what kind of POI they would send you to, so at least you're not going to literally the same place twice in a row. that may be an accidental improvement though
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 14:37
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:It would face the same problem too. Eight planets or a thousand would cause the same issue because planets would be huge and have to be filled via the same procgen system that they continue to have. If somebody tells you that they plan for eight planets you know they have to use some tools to assist with design, but that can still turn out fine. If somebody tells you that they plan for thousand planets, you know that they're a buffoon who'll use procgen for the final results.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 14:56
|
|
|
Procgen is fine for filling spaces with rocks and trees, but it doesn't solve the problem of providing things of interest to see in those spaces. If you want to make exploring worthwhile you still have to have someone create little bits of content to fill out your world. In Starfield, you can go and scan 50 unique items in the world to fill out your database of flora/fauna/resources, and the scanning mechanic ensures you have to travel all over hell's half acre to do so, but all that's there are those generated assets. If you're not obsessively trying to populate the survey DB, there's nothing of actual interest to see between the identical POIs, so there's no drive to just look around at the world. You're not going to stumble upon something interesting or unique, because no one put anything like that in the world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 14:58
|
|
|
yeah the handplaced stuff is clearly marked and you can keep the filler/radiant content to a minimum unless you want to engage with it. Some of the handplaced stuff is well designed too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:01
|
|
|
It would be relatively simple (from a technical perspective) to churn out hundreds of new POIs to slot into the existing procgen, especially if only a fraction of them are full-size dungeons in scale. I can easily see a community project for it once the Creation Kit gets released as well. That would go a long way towards making worlds feel like places to explore, but it may years before we get to that amount of fresh content. We could possibly even get to the point of having more unique POIs in the pool than the average player actually finds in a normal playthrough, which would be wild. Remember that many POIs are unmarked and sometimes simply interesting terrain formations rather than obvious man-made structures. Fixing the quests is a whole different problem, between creative process issues (they would have to pretend they're not the generic good guy for once), technical process issues (editing old scripts, writing new scripts, not breaking existing saves where the quest is in progress), and then asset issues (getting the voice actors back in the studio for more recordings, sending everything to the translation teams for localization). Modders could probably do it with the help of AI voice models since the game has a large library of recordings to learn from, but we'll have to see if Bethesda will be touching any of it first. Unfucking the gameplay loop so perks, equipment, economy, outposts, etc. work together in a fun way... I don't know if Bethesda can pull that off. That would need someone with creative direction to take charge.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:06
|
|
|
yeah they could brute force the game into a decent looter shooter by just adding a shitload of new planetside POIs
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:13
|
|
|
isndl posted:
They couldn't even spare the effort to fill the existing perk tree with stuff that was interesting. It blew my mind you have to spend a level up on the boost pack being a thing you can actually use, and the scanner perks mean you spend like four skill points to get the scanner to a level of function it should have had as a baseline. Just obvious filler stuff to make the skill tree look bigger by having things to eat points.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:16
|
|
|
hawowanlawow posted:yeah they could brute force the game into a decent looter shooter by just adding a shitload of new planetside POIs Also a shitload of gear worth looting for.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:17
|
|
|
not being able to re-roll traits and skills is mind boggling
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:25
|
|
|
they could have chosen one of two things: either create more than 2 maps for each of the 5 kinds of pois or release the creation kit at launch. since they did neither of those things and apparently have no plans to do either in the immediate future theyve kind of hosed everyone who bought it at launch. they should be. putting together a map in the creation kit is insanely easy, you just snap together tiles, and i have to imagine is easier if you use it for a living and are being paid to make maps for it
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:26
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:yeah but that would turn into the same problem as well. Any other year it would be fine but this came out directly a month after BG3 and the worst parts of bethesda's writing in this stood out in direct contrast with full on immensely fun characters. My personal highlight of the story of course was the the closest the game came to morrowind levels at pilgrim's rest - which dovetails neatly with the NG+ fluff. It just can't compete with sexual vampire elf. Bethesda's writing has rarely garnered much appreciation overall, and though the companions are, shall we say, a little generic, they'd serve their purpose if the rest of the game would be improved. I would've personally jettisoned the Freelancer space combat and made it a long-range affair, with a lot more emphasis on boarding actions and disabling the enemy. Or skipped it completely, making it a plot element in a quest or somesuch. Would've also more easily allowed for cool EV action.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:27
|
|
|
Sandepande posted:
This is freelancer slander. That game had way better combat, with damage types that actually matter and missiles that feel like missiles.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:45
|
|
|
im trying to look up what the starfield smart watch does and I can't find any info at least the fallout 4 armband let you eat stimpacks or whatever
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 15:55
|
|
|
moist turtleneck posted:im trying to look up what the starfield smart watch does and I can't find any info It opens that door that one time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 16:06
|
|
|
moist turtleneck posted:im trying to look up what the starfield smart watch does and I can't find any info It's what's displayed on the lower left. The moon phase thing is the time, if you bring up the scanner it shows you the gravity, the temperature is in there somewhere, and it shows you your injuries and suit protection remaining. Sometimes. Kind of. It's plenty useful, I guess it just isn't really featured enough to make a big impression.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 16:44
|
|
|
Sandepande posted:Bethesda's writing has rarely garnered much appreciation overall, and though the companions are, shall we say, a little generic, they'd serve their purpose if the rest of the game would be improved. Bethesda's writing is good when it's the worldbuilding which was made ages ago, but now that they have to create new worldbuilding all they came up with was a museum tour and a random paragraph from a bunch of Dickens' books. They legitimately made a significant part of the worldbuilding a memey joke to explain why they didn't make more worldbuilding.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 17:21
|
|
|
Inspector Hound posted:It's what's displayed on the lower left. The moon phase thing is the time, if you bring up the scanner it shows you the gravity, the temperature is in there somewhere, and it shows you your injuries and suit protection remaining. Sometimes. Kind of. It's plenty useful, I guess it just isn't really featured enough to make a big impression. I have never been able to figure out the suit protection part of that at all. The bar seems the same in places where I can hang out forever as it does in places where I’m stacking conditions every thirty seconds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
cool so the watch is for when youre not looking at the screen of your game for some reason lol taking a dump: i wonder if it's windy on titan today
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
Inspector Hound posted:It's what's displayed on the lower left. The moon phase thing is the time, if you bring up the scanner it shows you the gravity, the temperature is in there somewhere, and it shows you your injuries and suit protection remaining. Sometimes. Kind of. It's plenty useful, I guess it just isn't really featured enough to make a big impression. https://www.starfielddb.com/chronomark-watch/ There is a limited edition actual smartwatch made in the style of the Chronomark from the game. Much like there was a limited edition Pipboy thing released for Fallout
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:They couldn't even spare the effort to fill the existing perk tree with stuff that was interesting. It blew my mind you have to spend a level up on the boost pack being a thing you can actually use, and the scanner perks mean you spend like four skill points to get the scanner to a level of function it should have had as a baseline. Just obvious filler stuff to make the skill tree look bigger by having things to eat points.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 18:15
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:https://www.starfielddb.com/chronomark-watch/ Ouch, not as cool as the game one. It would be totally doable too, especially since it already connects to a phone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
Based on the ModDB article, it has no actual integration with the game, which seems completely fitting given every other component of the game's lack of integration with the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 19:57
|
|
|
I'm guessing the Pipboy app no longer works? e:apparently might still work Rinkles fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 19:59
|
|
|
moist turtleneck posted:not being able to re-roll traits and skills is mind boggling It is, but imagine grinding up all those loving “get 100 melee stealth kills” challenges again They probably also wanted to avoid things like dumping all your points into spaceship stuff, building a ship with all the high level parts, then respeccing into something else. Would you lose the ability to fly your ship?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:I think they wanted something more like The Expanse than Firefly, but then there goes the arcade style ship combat. Something like one hand crafted star system and the UC-FCF divide being over a citadel like generation ship that arrived and the people deciding to go planet side and colonize the planets that already have biomes could work. Places like Neon (really? that's the best name they could think of?) being the water refinery platforms that then decided to declare themselves a state. Then toss in a mystery about why these planets all have Earth-compatible biology. But that'd involve tighter world building and writing...
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 22:08
|
|
|
Emil Pagliarulo put out 15 tweets defending Starfield and his role in it. It's a lot of nothing, but can be easily summed up as "Making video games is hard". I don't know why video game developers in particular are such snowflakes about criticism and feel that "making video games is hard" is a reasonable response towards it. Yes, making video games is hard. Literally NOBODY CARES. If the doctor misdiagnoses me or the chef makes a bad meal and I call them out on it, they can't go "My job is hard". It most certainly is. But nobody is going to bat an eye at realizing this person is full of poo poo. Here is what people want to hear: "I hear you, here is how I'm fixing it."
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 00:37
|
|
|
Not sure if it was already mentioned, but the modder that was working on the multiplayer mod stopped because "the game is loving trash". Maybe someone else will pick it up.
Michaellaneous fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Dec 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 00:49
|
|
|
Bethesda leads are complaining about the feedback again https://www.pcgamer.com/starfield-d...-the-way-it-is/ Nelson Mandingo posted:Emil Pagliarulo put out 15 tweets defending Starfield and his role in it. It's a lot of nothing, but can be easily summed up as "Making video games is hard". I don't know why video game developers in particular are such snowflakes about criticism and feel that "making video games is hard" is a reasonable response towards it. Somehow I missed this when scrolling thought the massive five new posts to check. Whoops!
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 01:14
|
|
|
Michaellaneous posted:Not sure if it was already mentioned, but the modder that was working on the multiplayer mod stopped because "the game is loving trash". Maybe someone else will pick it up. This screenshot has been going around for a while but the more I think about it the less of a deal it is? Yeah, sucks that a modder is quitting, but it's a single modder whose claim to fame is a multiplayer mod which I'm not sure was ever more than niche - the idea of multiplayer in a Bethesda game is tempting, but I presume most people aren't running mod lists suitable for multiplayer compatibility. Hacking in multiplayer is technically impressive but it's also not a content addition in any meaningful sense, so it's not terribly surprising that they'll burn out real fast when facing the prospect of playing the entirety of a game they dislike for testing. Most mods have quick and easy testing and seeing your stuff working keeps you motivated. Maybe this guy has other credentials to their name, I don't know. If it was a texture artist or modeler calling it quits I'd be much more concerned, because those are the foundation of most mods out there. Titty mods are a meme for a reason after all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 03:49
|
|
|
Sandepande posted:Bethesda's writing has rarely garnered much appreciation overall, and though the companions are, shall we say, a little generic, they'd serve their purpose if the rest of the game would be improved. if you had done the latter people would rightfully call you out for making it a bullshit scripted mission. Skyrim already had that problem with one stealth section at the thalmor embassy party. isndl posted:This screenshot has been going around for a while but the more I think about it the less of a deal it is? Yeah, sucks that a modder is quitting, but it's a single modder whose claim to fame is a multiplayer mod which I'm not sure was ever more than niche - the idea of multiplayer in a Bethesda game is tempting, but I presume most people aren't running mod lists suitable for multiplayer compatibility. Hacking in multiplayer is technically impressive but it's also not a content addition in any meaningful sense, so it's not terribly surprising that they'll burn out real fast when facing the prospect of playing the entirety of a game they dislike for testing. Most mods have quick and easy testing and seeing your stuff working keeps you motivated. It dovetails well with the "doom and gloom" scenario that is driving starfield clicks. "oh this prominent modder who made this really cool mod for skyrim says starfield is trash." Meanwhile you go to the skyrim together page on nexus and its reams upon reams of pages complaining that the game has desyncs/disconnects etc. Very reminiscent of that Skyrim Platform project, which was supposed to lead us into a new era of scripting greatness but the actual tool itself was too unstable and eventually abandoned. Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 03:56
|
|
|
Nelson Mandingo posted:Emil Pagliarulo put out 15 tweets defending Starfield and his role in it. It's a lot of nothing, but can be easily summed up as "Making video games is hard". I don't know why video game developers in particular are such snowflakes about criticism and feel that "making video games is hard" is a reasonable response towards it. I mean I can see giving a small/indie studio some slack, not a multi-million dollar powerhouse like Bethesda though. They have the money and resources to not suck but they do anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 04:12
|
|
|
it launching without maps will go down for me as one of the biggest "huh, but that sounds odd" tells of all time but jesus christ bethesda its been three months and no one has dug out the ol' map intern? embarrassing
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 14:42
|
|
|
Old Doggy Bastard posted:it launching without maps will go down for me as one of the biggest "huh, but that sounds odd" tells of all time Also one of the earliest real instances of "mods will fix it", at least as far as New Atlantis.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 15:04
|
|
|
The lack of a map made the fact that the city layouts are nonsensical even worse. You couldn’t really navigate based on a sense of the space alone because everything looked the same and there wasn’t really thought put into how an area would be developed. Trying to find that bookstore in Akila was often my Waterloo. Also I still can’t figure out why New Atlantis’s slums are only accessible via an elevator in the Capitol building’s basement.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 15:08
|
|
|
BigRoman posted:
See, I don't think it's necessarily a problem with the quality of the writers (although that's possible!). It feels more like a company culture thing. Every quest in the game, every companion, every bit of background just feels designed by committee. All the edges filed off, nothing that might be offensive, nothing sexual, even the bad guys aren't allowed to get up to anything more evil than blowing up spaceships. It's like a Marvel movie without the charm, where everything has to be carefully triangulated to be as acceptable to as many people as possible, so nothing can be as dark as, say, tracking down Evelyn in Cyberpunk 2077, and even in the "crime" planet Neon they're not willing to do anything besides allude to drug use (but you certainly aren't going to see any bombed-out junkies laying around). It doesn't feel so much like a quality issue as a simple unwillingness to take chances, so everything is as milquetoast as possible and nothing is allowed to be interesting because the focus group is going to have at least one person who doesn't like it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 15:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 08:01 |
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:The lack of a map made the fact that the city layouts are nonsensical even worse. You couldn’t really navigate based on a sense of the space alone because everything looked the same and there wasn’t really thought put into how an area would be developed. Trying to find that bookstore in Akila was often my Waterloo. There's another door next to Jemison Mercantile Exchange; there's also a sky bridge between the port and the commercial district. There's just these little hints of a more traversable, more detailed city. But really, it's not that different from Whiterun or Diamond City. It's Novigrad and Knight City that hurt.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 15:11
|
|