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don't think there's a better one no it shouldn't be enormously complicated to get it aligned and as good as it's gonna get. If it lases at all most problems can typically be boiled down to keep the belts tight/mirrors aligned and clean/go slow because it doesn't have a whole lotta oomph to it.
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Dec 18, 2023 20:07
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I bought a D1 Pro a few months ago so I've likely been through whatever problems you're experiencing. Fire them questions
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Dec 18, 2023 20:25
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Well, I had been experimenting with scoring and engraving transparent acrylic with mixed/limited success. I found some info about completely clear and blue/green acrylic being impossible to work with due to the wavelength of the laser, but I was wondering if any tricks worked to get around that? Specifically, painting a surface black with tempera paint. I got a decent result on the transparent orange stock just by backing it with black cardstock, but the power levels necessary to get a mark on the blue/green also cause blisters in the acrylic. Recently though, I haven't had any luck. I tried printing a few arrays to try and dial in power/speed settings and suddenly the thing is drawing stars like a kindergartner. There's always a side that drifts off and doesn't line back up, though the array itself seems to stay lined up. I'm not sure if it's belt tension or if it's maybe a problem with the changing speeds in the array print. I could try the print that worked best again, but I figured I should ask around before wasting all the stock I have to work with. I tried adding some lubricant and lining things back up/retightening the coupler on the drive shaft, but it didn't seem to help. Weirder is that certain speed/power combinations did stay lined up and made a decent star shape, so I'm not sure if the drives are just sluggish or sticky somehow? Model is XTool D1 10w using XCS. Anyway, sorry for  and thanks.
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Dec 18, 2023 21:38
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is there a particular axis it's loving up on, left/right or up/down while the other is close to correct?
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Dec 18, 2023 22:22
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Now that you mention it, I think the heights were fairly consistent, but it's maybe moving on the Y axis (left/right) too far? In fact, I think it has been moving outside of the "framed" area, because it spilled over the right edge on the last test. It results in a star test shape where the last line just kinda drifts off and doesn't reconnect with the start point. I should have gotten a pic, I will try to get one later tonight after I get home.
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Dec 18, 2023 23:03
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yeah the timing belt on that axis is loose. IDK about that particular model but some lasers have two of em so there's twice as much stuff to get out of whack, just FYI
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 01:11
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You can’t really work around the material limitation. You’d have to get a different laser on a different wavelength and you might as well just buy the whole thing. If you wanted to mark glass, Cermark could conceivably work, but that might be the limits of what you can do with transparent materials.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:38
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well. there might be a way to work around that, and I've waiting for someone to try out a practical application, but just on the safe side I'd keep a crowbar handy before pushing the phaseonium crystal into the energy beam
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Dec 19, 2023 02:17
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Here's a pic of the last test I did, in case I wasn't describing it clearly. It's really kind of all over the place.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:28
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I was expecting "a little out of square" not .... that Is your material vibrating around on the bed? Do you have air assist cranked up enough that it's blowing the acrylic around? Are you trying to use this laser in the middle of a hurricane? Those speeds are fairly low for that machine so it shouldn't be drifting that much with loose belts Do you maybe have them over-tightened? What happens if you do a material test with squares instead of stars?
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Dec 19, 2023 05:48
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Sockser posted:I was expecting "a little out of square" not .... that Ya know, thats a good question about vibrating on the bed. I wouldn't think so, because it's the steel honeycomb on a tile floor, but I wonder if the carriage can move with enough force to actually scoot the frame of the XTool. I have to admit, I got kinda overeager to use the thing and don't have safety glasses yet (they are on order) so I've really just tried not to look directly at the thing when it's running and occasionally pop in to check above it for smoke. I wonder if theres a dry run kinda mode that would let me watch it make the movements. I wouldnt think it was overtightened just based on the more successful initial test that you can see partially as an "S" in the picture. it didn't look off aside from some lines that I assumed was banding from not using a vector image, though I guess it could have been a some line shifts. At any rate, I didn't personally touch the assembly until I already suspected a problem. Maybe when my friend picked it up used it already had something over/under tightened. I will try a test with squares tomorrow and post a pic. I might switch to using printed pla blanks to test on though, no sense blowing through the acrylic until i figure out the alignment.
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Dec 19, 2023 06:13
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oh man that is mega nasty, yeah that's not just a loose belt. I don't know what the hell that is, why are the letters more or less correct (unlike the stars) but then totally out of line with each other? Being able to look at it and see what it's doing would be pretty crucial to diagnosis yeah something is hosed and at that scale you should be able to see whatever it is thrashing around
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Dec 19, 2023 06:13
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When I was going through the lubricating process, I couldn't tell for sure, but it felt to me like maybe the wheels weren't really rolling on the rails so much as sliding on them, could seized wheels potentially cause this? I didn't want to go ham with WD-40 and just used some silicone gel for the first round, but maybe I need to do something more drastic with the wheels. I tried manually moving the carriage all around and while I thought it still seemed a bit tight, I don't really have a frame of reference for how freely those things should move. Hopefully I can get a look at it in motion when the safety glasses are delivered.
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Dec 19, 2023 06:31
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Not closing the shapes implies it's missing steps at the stepper or the belts are slipping on the drives, which could be from too much drag or an electrical issue or something. If it was a racking/squareness issue the stars would be wonky but closed. It looks like most of the error was on the vertical axis for that test plate, but looks like there could be some horizontal error as well. Is it an h-bot style mechanism or independent axes?
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Dec 19, 2023 06:49
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:Not closing the shapes implies it's missing steps at the stepper or the belts are slipping on the drives, which could be from too much drag or an electrical issue or something. If it was a racking/squareness issue the stars would be wonky but closed. It looks like most of the error was on the vertical axis for that test plate, but looks like there could be some horizontal error as well. Is it an h-bot style mechanism or independent axes? Yep I was about to say that looks like missing steps, particularly the letters being more or less correct but then way out of line with each other which could be losing steps only during rapid moves between letters. Maybe the motor current is set way too low making it super wimpy and liable to lose steps just from inertia?
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Dec 19, 2023 07:47
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NewFatMike posted:You can’t really work around the material limitation. You’d have to get a different laser on a different wavelength and you might as well just buy the whole thing. Cermark does look interesting, if a bit expensive for what will probably amount to junk I print to give out to friends. I'm hoping the tempera paint will work well enough to get a clean mark. According to what I've read about the Norton Tile Method, you can get a good result from the diode laser hitting paint with titanium dioxide in it specifically, but I've only seen examples of really clean results on white tiles using white paint. (Which is counter to the advice regarding white acrylic, apparently it's hard to mark because too much of the laser is reflected.) If I can't get transparent stuff to work for little edge lighting signs, maybe I will try etching a mirror. That's done on the opaque side, so I could probably get a decent image once the alignment is fixed. meowmeowmeowmeow posted:Not closing the shapes implies it's missing steps at the stepper or the belts are slipping on the drives, which could be from too much drag or an electrical issue or something. If it was a racking/squareness issue the stars would be wonky but closed. It looks like most of the error was on the vertical axis for that test plate, but looks like there could be some horizontal error as well. Is it an h-bot style mechanism or independent axes? I'm not familiar with the term H bot but it does look like an H when I think about it. The center axis moves vertically driven by a belt on either side and the laser diode rides along it horizontally. I'm guessing from some of these suggestions that I'm going to have to take some stuff apart and reassemble it, confirming the wheels and things are moving freely. Hopefully I don't need to outright replace a stepper motor, but the most expensive piece is the laser, so maybe that won't be too bad.
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Dec 19, 2023 15:29
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H-bot refers to the motion system, both motors turn for any motion in x or y vs a more traditional gantry where there's an x motor and a y motor. If you push the head around by hand you should be able to see if one or both motors turn depending on how you move it, it'll help with troubleshooting.
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Dec 19, 2023 18:48
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Sockser posted:I was expecting "a little out of square" not .... that  Well, it did better than the stars, anyway. I did my best to get a look at what was going on without blinding myself and it seems like the axis the laser rides on is sticking on one side a bit instead of at an even clip on both sides. I also did an engraving where the lettering all stayed more or less consistent except three letters with inexplicably shorter. I will probably just have to disassemble and reassemble the drives over the holiday if I get a chance. Thanks for the help all. e: Eyyy, square squares!  Had to readjust all the belts after I loosened the coupler too much and the drive rod fell out. It all worked out. NofrikinfuN fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 03:30
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Anyone here use drag knife cutters? I do some work for a local muralist making stencils out of poster board, and if I can save myself a trip to the library to use the laser cutter there I’ll be very happy
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Dec 31, 2023 19:12
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NewFatMike posted:Anyone here use drag knife cutters? I do some work for a local muralist making stencils out of poster board, and if I can save myself a trip to the library to use the laser cutter there I’ll be very happy
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Dec 31, 2023 19:18
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Does anyone here have firsthand or solid seconhand experience with the Langmuir MR-1? It looks like a good balance of cost to capability, and I am seriously thinking about getting one in the next year or two. I have been looking at machine tools for a while, and something like a used Bridgeport or clone would be cheaper, but not be nearly as capable. And a used Haas or Tormach is too much money for my budget, especially considering tooling/options, plus there is always the risk of a used machine being in need of repairs or just wore out/damaged from use, or a bad crash.
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Dec 31, 2023 19:29
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Problematic Soup posted:Does anyone here have firsthand or solid seconhand experience with the Langmuir MR-1? It looks like a good balance of cost to capability, and I am seriously thinking about getting one in the next year or two. The local machine shop my company uses for rapid turnaround piece work has one. I send them prints and they let me know if they can make it. So far, I've asked for stuff in delrin, HDPE, cast aluminum, extruded aluminum, and 316 stainless. They declined the 316 stainless, but had no problems hitting my tolerances for the parts, some of which were kinda annoying (2x bores 1.125 +.003 -.000, center-to-center distance 2.375 +-.005... in HDPE). I chatted with the guy about it when we were first setting them up as a vendor; he hadn't had any complaints with the thing, but it was still pretty new when I talked with him. It's really just one dude and his dad in their garage with the MR-1, a plasma table, and an engine lathe. edit: This would have been July/August 2022, so this guy probably got one of the first units. babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 20:33
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:What's your question? Does it suck?  I’m just curious about whether it’s worth doing on such thin material. I imagine an MDF vacuum table should provide enough suction power to keep everything held down, but most of the info I’m seeing is focused on vinyl adhesive backed stickers and not a lot of info on work holding or card stock. Problematic Soup posted:Does anyone here have firsthand or solid seconhand experience with the Langmuir MR-1? It looks like a good balance of cost to capability, and I am seriously thinking about getting one in the next year or two. Funny that you bring it up, I’m calling my electrician tomorrow to get some quotes for expanding the garage’s electrical to put one in over the spring/summer. All the reviews I’ve been seeing are overwhelmingly positive. The assembly guide is web based, and it’ll calculate where and how many shims to put in on the motion system which is super aces. I had been looking at other options, but with a full enclosure, flood coolant, and probing/touch off set, it comes out to less than an Avid CNC benchtop pro with the same working area. 3” maximum part height might be a pain for some, but it’s plenty for everything I make. If I need to ream a hole for fit, I’ve got a drill press. Alternatives I had been looking at were the above Avid machine and an Omio X8 2200 USB. I had actually been pretty committed to the Omio machine, but after looking into it the QC is way too spotty for my taste. I’d rather build the concrete based Langmuir kit, and they’re not too far apart base price wise.
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Dec 31, 2023 21:36
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We use a drag knife machine at work to cut heavy card stock for sewing patterns on a vac table. It's faster and easier than using the laser and leaves and nicer edge imo.
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Dec 31, 2023 22:49
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:We use a drag knife machine at work to cut heavy card stock for sewing patterns on a vac table. It's faster and easier than using the laser and leaves and nicer edge imo. Hell yeah, that’s great to hear! Do y’all do inverted dog bones for sharp corners or do you just take slightly rounded corners? Looks like the Tormach drag knife can do a 5 thou radius which I think is fine for my applications.
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Dec 31, 2023 23:02
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Have any of y’all seen the Rapid Change ATC before? I haven’t done much looking at it beyond a few YouTube videos, but it seems pretty compelling: https://rapidchangeatc.com/
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Jan 8, 2024 06:41
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NewFatMike posted:Have any of y’all seen the Rapid Change ATC before? I haven’t done much looking at it beyond a few YouTube videos, but it seems pretty compelling: Thanks, I hate it.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:16
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NewFatMike posted:Have any of y’all seen the Rapid Change ATC before? I haven’t done much looking at it beyond a few YouTube videos, but it seems pretty compelling: If you’re getting an MR-1, it may not work with it, or require serious control mods, per their website. It has something to do with the MR-1 spindle being a servo motor, and unscrewing the collet causes a stalled motor indication in the encoder/machine control. It would be super cool if that could be overcome, and you may want to talk to the Langmuir folks for confirmation, but it seems unlikely that it will be compatible.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:20
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NewFatMike posted:Have any of y’all seen the Rapid Change ATC before? I haven’t done much looking at it beyond a few YouTube videos, but it seems pretty compelling: This feels like something I saw on a Shopbot in 2015.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:06
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Problematic Soup posted:If you’re getting an MR-1, it may not work with it, or require serious control mods, per their website. It has something to do with the MR-1 spindle being a servo motor, and unscrewing the collet causes a stalled motor indication in the encoder/machine control. It would be super cool if that could be overcome, and you may want to talk to the Langmuir folks for confirmation, but it seems unlikely that it will be compatible. That’s good to know! I’m definitely hitting up their support before adding anything. I thought a cheapo ATC would be interesting for the thread in general
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Jan 8, 2024 21:17
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NewFatMike posted:Have any of y’all seen the Rapid Change ATC before? I haven’t done much looking at it beyond a few YouTube videos, but it seems pretty compelling: That is literally the worst possible tool changer I have ever seen. Absolutely zero way to control for gauge length, there is approximately zero chance the spindle is able to actually torque the ER collets in a way that's not wildly inconsistent. Also knowing our luck, it would cross thread and destroy itself. That all said, it is pretty clever and it does presumably work. If you have a machine that could really use a tool changer without there being an OEM option, this could be a solution for things. Without a tool breakage/re-height/pullout detection macro it would be a hilarious disaster in the making, but it could presumably work. Dust cover mandatory tho, getting a pile of cnc schmoo in your ER collet is a real fast way to make it no longer a collet, and instead a regret.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:32
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I feel like ATC is a place on the machine you don’t want to cheap out on. I can’t figure out exactly who this third party toolchanger is for. A for-reals production shop will kill this thing pretty quickly, and a hobbyist (the bane of online machining forums) isn’t under time pressure, and can just manually change tools. I guess some kind of cabinet shop that is running on a serious shoestring budget is the target market for this, but a shop like that is hell on earth and I advise anyone to stay far far away. Edit: I fully recognize the irony of posting like that in the “Hobby CNC” thread tylertfb fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 23:25
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I really really really really really dislike the idea of screwing the collets on and off (using the spindle motor!!) with every toolchange. Even doing it manually on a manual mill kind of bothers me because I'd rather torque it all up once and leave it set. Every even moderately serious machine should come with some sort of non-threaded taper toolholder imo. Does their system have any sort of torque control? Any method of preventing cross-threading? Any way of keeping gunk and chips out of the threads? Like sometimes there's a reason that nobody has ever used a certain method before.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:49
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There’s a built in dust cover. It currently basically only has macros for GRBL so that’s who it’s for. I’ve got a cheap ATC design in mind that is basically a mini lathe headstock with an additional motor to drop a tool into a gang off a 5C collet. Everything needs the same diameter shank, but that’s not the worst for a hobby shop.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:24
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tylertfb posted:I feel like ATC is a place on the machine you don’t want to cheap out on. I can’t figure out exactly who this third party toolchanger is for. A for-reals production shop will kill this thing pretty quickly, and a hobbyist (the bane of online machining forums) isn’t under time pressure, and can just manually change tools. I guess some kind of cabinet shop that is running on a serious shoestring budget is the target market for this, but a shop like that is hell on earth and I advise anyone to stay far far away. It's for the hobbyist that wants a tool changer for their kit built CNC router table thing, that uses a spindle with an ER16/20 nose on it, that has zero other manufacturer provision for any form of tool changing, and REALLY wants a tool changer because changing the bit over and over and over again is annoying now that they want to make a dozen batches of something instead of one of something. Also someone whose guiding principle of CNC work is:  Edit: And ABSOLUTELY doesn't recognize all of the various ways it'll inevitably gently caress up and break something expensive. Sagebrush posted:Does their system have any sort of torque control? Any method of preventing cross-threading? Any way of keeping gunk and chips out of the threads? If you squint at it REALLY hard, it almost feels like a terrible automated version of how you change tooling on an old R8 collet bridgeport with the powered drawbar impact wrench thing a lot of them were retrofitted with. Shove the tool and collet in the thing and goose it till it seems tight enough to you. Methylethylaldehyde fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 9, 2024 |
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Jan 9, 2024 00:54
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I get the attraction. ATCs are extremely complex and expensive, and it'd be really to be able to add even limited tool changing capability onto any machine for cheap. It seems targeted at hobbyists who want a taste of the capabilities of a professional machine. But there is a reason for all that complexity and expense, and a reason that you don't try to half-rear end the tool/spindle interface. The ER interface is not designed or intended for automatic changing. This is a bad idea! If I was designing this and completely stuck with an ER spindle interface, then I'd probably conceptually start with something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWz2e-neP1A Figure out a way to put a solid tooling block in the ER spindle nose with its own opening/closing method. Maybe some sort of bump-activated mechanism? There were a variety of quick-change systems like that for R8 collets: keeping the length down would be the really challenging part.
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Jan 9, 2024 01:04
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I would consider something that had the same sort of cover arrangement, but picked up a whole rear end tool holder, and didn’t thread it on. That would require a quick change spindle, some kind of drawbar setup, and probably a compressed air line. I can see the cost to do it putting a machine into “might as well get a Tormach” territory.
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Jan 9, 2024 02:24
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Tormach or maybe a HAAS, at that price territory (used to be you could get a decent deal on demo/floor machines from HAAS at the New Year, anyway).
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Jan 9, 2024 12:31
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Sagebrush posted:I really really really really really dislike the idea of screwing the collets on and off (using the spindle motor!!) with every toolchange. Even doing it manually on a manual mill kind of bothers me because I'd rather torque it all up once and leave it set. Every even moderately serious machine should come with some sort of non-threaded taper toolholder imo. ive used that certain method before. ok, bye.
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Jan 9, 2024 13:01
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I just pulled the trigger on the Langmuir MR-1  I'm pretty dang psyched for it to get here, I managed to accrue a few people who like me to help assemble it. Hardest part might be getting the actual crates into the house
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Jan 10, 2024 14:30
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