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Considering "2068 A.D.," I feel very sure that "machine thinking" doesn't just refer to bureaucracy, but to the surveillance state. https://twitter.com/netw3rk/status/1451608254279143424
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Dec 15, 2023 17:33
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I mean it won't be "turn of the century" exactly but there's still time for the conservative wacko revolt against the woke mind virus
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Dec 15, 2023 17:36
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Jewmanji posted:I think the Butlerian Jihad is really just supposed to evoke the luddites. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that. Where most SF is about how humans and technology will evolve together, Dune is about how humans would evolve in the absence of that tech, instead just relying on their meat bodies and finding ways to expand human capability that way (which feeds thematically into his interest in psychedelics). I don’t think he was being purposefully vague about the particulars of the Butlerian Jihad, I think he just had faith that people would be able to extract meaning from it based on their knowledge of the Luddites and that was all that was required. Yes, all this stuff about "machine thinking" is overreading the Jihad and its significance to the text. I remind y'all, "machine thinking" is not a phrase that appears in any of the novels. Leto II says a few things that are similar when he's criticizing the Ixians and dismissing them as a threat in God Emperor, but it's not some overarching theme throughout the series.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:04
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The luddites had a point
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Dec 15, 2023 19:05
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Arglebargle III posted:The luddites had a point Yes they did. Capital absolutely was using machines to push out more expensive skilled labor, and to drive unskilled labor to death in the name of the greatest amount of profits at the least cost. That is a totally valid point. Where they hosed up was destroying machines and not capitalists.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:13
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PeterWeller posted:Yes, all this stuff about "machine thinking" is overreading the Jihad and its significance to the text. I remind y'all, "machine thinking" is not a phrase that appears in any of the novels. Leto II says a few things that are similar when he's criticizing the Ixians and dismissing them as a threat in God Emperor, but it's not some overarching theme throughout the series. "Machine thinking" might not appear in those words, but the glossary does specifically refer to "computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots". My point (which I think we agree on) is that some people infer from that language that there was a Skynet/Matrix situation pitting humans against machines in a battle for survival, rather than the more mundane economic and human rights-related concerns of the luddite movement.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:40
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Jewmanji posted:"Machine thinking" might not appear in those words, but the glossary does specifically refer to "computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots". My point (which I think we agree on) is that some people infer from that language that there was a Skynet/Matrix situation pitting humans against machines in a battle for survival, rather than the more mundane economic and human rights-related concerns of the luddite movement. Yeah, the only place where we disagree is that I don't think it's an inference to read "computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots" and think humanity fought a war against actual beep-boop robots who were trying to kill people for whatever reason. I think that's just a plain reading of the text. I also think it's a plain reading of the text to understand that the Butlerian Jihad was a social movement that remade the power structures of society akin to what the Luddites were trying to achieve. My issue with the "machine thinking" idea is that it takes what is a backstory element meant to answer the question, "hey, but why don't they have robots and computers in this SF setting?" and turns it into a cypher by which people interpret the entire series and leads them away from plain readings of the text like that time a poster suggested the hunter-killer bots in Siona's vision could be Leto II's sled instead or how many people just ignore that quote from the glossary.
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Dec 15, 2023 22:51
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah, the only place where we disagree is that I don't think it's an inference to read "computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots" and think humanity fought a war against actual beep-boop robots who were trying to kill people for whatever reason. I think that's just a plain reading of the text. I also think it's a plain reading of the text to understand that the Butlerian Jihad was a social movement that remade the power structures of society akin to what the Luddites were trying to achieve.
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Dec 15, 2023 23:01
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I can't remember where, but I think there's something in the later books which strongly suggests if not outright spells out that it was humans, possibly humans who'd done the cyborg thing, who were in charge of the robots doing the killing. A motif throughout God Emperor is the fear that the Ixians (who are definitely humans who do the cyborg thing) will create killing machines, either the precursors to or the very machines that Siona sees in her vision. And I can't recall where, but there are some explicit lines about humans creating machines to control other humans.
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Dec 15, 2023 23:20
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PeterWeller posted:A motif throughout God Emperor is the fear that the Ixians (who are definitely humans who do the cyborg thing) will create killing machines, either the precursors to or the very machines that Siona sees in her vision. And I can't recall where, but there are some explicit lines about humans creating machines to control other humans.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:31
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quote:"I do not understand your reference to the Butlerian Jihad, Lord, Machines that think have no place in.. ."
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Dec 16, 2023 02:07
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Yeah, I think there's also another line somewhere that's explicitly about enslaving humans with or by machines. Maybe it's from one of the introductions to the Lynch film. E: BlankSystemDaemon posted:Yeah, Frank wasn't being subtle - which I think is partly because of how many people missed a lot of the points he was trying to get at with the original trilogy. I don't think God Emperor is often brutal and unsubtle because Frank lost faith in his audience. I think that's a reflection of Leto II's exercise of power compared to the scheming and politicking in the previous novels. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 16, 2023 |
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Dec 16, 2023 02:17
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PeterWeller posted:A motif throughout God Emperor is the fear that the Ixians (who are definitely humans who do the cyborg thing) will create killing machines, either the precursors to or the very machines that Siona sees in her vision. And I can't recall where, but there are some explicit lines about humans creating machines to control other humans. Yeah, the threat isn't necessarily Skynet, it's the machines doing exactly what they're supposed to do under the control of the people they were made for. In the age of drone warfare, it's aged all too well. Of course, as I said, it didn't really work; one of the big themes is the whole feudal power structure basically turning people into machines, with a single purpose and expected output. Also interesting that CHOAM suggests the galactic imperium started out as a megacorporate conglomerate that dropped the pretence and went outright feudal.
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Dec 16, 2023 04:17
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MikeJF posted:The evolved hunter-killer drones aren't the threat being avoided by the Golden Path, they're a threat being avoided by it. The true threat was that humanity would stagnate in one place until something eventually came along that could wipe it out. The hunter-killers were just one example in one possible future, one that was averted even before Leto II completed the actions needed to put humanity on the Golden Path. “The hunter killer machines are not the issue here, dude!” (Walter Sobchak face on Leto-worm) But yes, this is the point that the son didn’t get, it sounds like. The issue was humanity losing its most critical trait for survival: infinite capacity for adaptability, but it requires external pressures.
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Dec 16, 2023 04:26
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Yeah, kinda the whole point of the Golden Path is to give humanity the 'smoke the whole pack' treatment of authoritarianism and monoculture so they spread all over the universe beyond any one power's ability to control. Also the big theme of how prescience is existentially terrifying on many levels.
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Dec 16, 2023 04:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:the Golden Path is to give humanity the 'smoke the whole pack' treatment of authoritarianism and monoculture
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Dec 16, 2023 18:00
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Bugblatter posted:Yeah. Dune and Messiah are one thing and then the other books are... a whole different thing. Herbert had changed his views on a lot of things, had a lot of less successful books, then came back and injected his new ideas (plus a bunch of influence from Jodorowsky's production) into his one successful property. I don't really know where this is coming from. quote:Muad'Dib could, indeed, see the Future, but you must understand the limits of this power. Think of sight. You have eyes, yet cannot see without light. If you are on the floor of a valley, you cannot see beyond your valley. Just so, Muad'dib could not always choose to look across the mysterious terrain. He tells us that a single obscure decision of prophecy, perhaps the choice of one word over another, could change the entire aspect of the future. He tell us "The vision of time is broad, but when you pass through it, time becomes a narrow door." And always, he fought the temptation to choose a clear, safe course, warning "That path leads ever down into stagnation." - From "Arrakis Awakening" by the Princess Irulan Frank seems pretty clearly to be laying the groundwork for Leto II here.
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Dec 16, 2023 18:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, the threat isn't necessarily Skynet, it's the machines doing exactly what they're supposed to do under the control of the people they were made for. In the age of drone warfare, it's aged all too well. Ultimately the threat of the machines is them working without any human input whatsoever and just replacing and/or wiping out humanity. That's what Siona sees. I don't think that is one of the big themes of the entire series. We don't see proletariats and commoners reduced to automatons across the first three novels. We don't see much of them at all really. We see the powerful become superhumans who are ever more distant from and capable than the common people. I do think it becomes a major theme in God Emperor under Leto II's 3500-year. We see him systemically limit and destroy agency and autonomy. We see it in the pilgrimages and festivals that schedule people's lives for them. We see it especially in the sad Museum Fremen who life LARP a culture that hasn't existed for millennia. Leto II basically turns people into machines, even the superpowered who once lorded over the old imperium are reduced to cogs in his giant scheme. Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, kinda the whole point of the Golden Path is to give humanity the 'smoke the whole pack' treatment of authoritarianism and monoculture so they spread all over the universe beyond any one power's ability to control. Also the big theme of how prescience is existentially terrifying on many levels. Yeah, there are basically two parts to the Golden Path. Both of them are essentially Leto II doing space eugenics on the entirety of humanity. The first is creating a sort of genetic memory and hatred of tyranny and being sedentary that humanity will never again fall under the sway of a single leader in a single place. The second is creating the Siona gene that will ensure nothing can ever track down and eliminate the whole of humanity.
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Dec 16, 2023 19:35
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AlternateAccount posted:“The hunter killer machines are not the issue here, dude!” That Duncan really tied the room together.
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Dec 17, 2023 04:29
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https://comicbookmovie.com/sci_fi/dune/dune-messiah-has-reportedly-been-greenlit-and-timothe-chalamet-is-already-sharing-spoilers-a208430
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Dec 19, 2023 20:55
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If I were him, I'd just lie outrageously about everything. Jason Momoa is coming back, to play Bijaz.
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Dec 19, 2023 21:06
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Bigjaz
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Dec 19, 2023 21:10
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he could just scoot around on his knees. like Yogurt in Spaceballs.
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Dec 19, 2023 21:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, kinda the whole point of the Golden Path is to give humanity the 'smoke the whole pack' treatment of authoritarianism and monoculturel lmao
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Dec 20, 2023 11:12
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So, David Lynch's half-finished script for Dune Messiah was found and it sounds pretty Lynch.
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Jan 11, 2024 17:41
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feedmyleg posted:So, David Lynch's half-finished script for Dune Messiah was found and it sounds pretty Lynch. Someone I follow on social media pointed out that the script was catalogued online in the archives' catalog as "Dune Messiah" and "Dune Messiah, Script Revisions", which really goes to show how these things are generally not "found", people just rarely look at what's already publicly available.
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Jan 11, 2024 22:11
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https://x.com/dunemovie/status/1749114731791835635?s=46 New Dunc2 featurette, too bad is on Twitter only?
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Jan 24, 2024 14:50
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Missing a world of director commentary and behind the scenes with even minimal production quality. Thanks streaming services!
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Jan 24, 2024 15:06
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M_Gargantua posted:Missing a world of director commentary and behind the scenes with even minimal production quality. Dune doesn't have a commentary track, but the behind the scenes stuff is decent and probably a little over an hour's worth all together.
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Jan 25, 2024 14:29
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Jan 25, 2024 22:27
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Need my Three Worms Moon t-shirt NOW
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Jan 25, 2024 23:24
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https://x.com/culturecrave/status/1750673046732705829?s=46 “What’s in the bucket?” “Pain.”
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Jan 26, 2024 06:10
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The Glory Hulud
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Jan 26, 2024 06:10
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“Many men have tried” “Tried and failed?” “Tried and died”
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Jan 26, 2024 06:12
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If the internet has taught us anything, there is some beautiful weirdo for every possible kink and peccadillo. Somewhere, out there, are some people whose wildest dreams came true today.
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Jan 26, 2024 07:15
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I will face my treats. I will permit them to pass over me and through me.
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Jan 26, 2024 09:08
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I don't know if it's happening everywhere but there's some early IMAX screenings opened up on Feb 25, just snapped one up.
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Jan 26, 2024 14:17
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None near me... The rest of the tix go on sale supposedly within the next 5-15 mins. Edit: Or not? I see the early shows in 3 states that I am not near... Rest are still embargo'd I guess. Ploo. Philthy fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jan 26, 2024 |
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Jan 26, 2024 16:56
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All general seats went on sale. gogogo
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Jan 26, 2024 17:37
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Do other people live near IMAX theaters that let you reserve specific seats? I can never go see these movies in IMAX for the first month or so because there's always going to be 100 people willing to show up 2 hours before showtime, which I can't do in my old age.
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Jan 26, 2024 17:38
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