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Yeah, I had that first twist pegged from the moment he calmed Tress down by telling a long, extremely boring story about all the people he saw in the city, which was previously called out as one of Charlie's traits and a unique aspect of their relationship. I'm also still mildly pissed that we never get an explanation for what he was doing on the one ship she just happened to stow away on, that was a coincidence far past what I'm willing to accept.
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Jan 12, 2024 01:31
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I loving knew Shallan had a shardblade!!!!!! I saw those hints in Way of Kings!!! You think you're sneaky Brandon, but I picked up on it!!Mordiceius posted:Way of Kings Part 3 Vindication.
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Jan 12, 2024 01:49
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Mordiceius posted:Vindication. Nah, that's a gun.
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Jan 12, 2024 01:54
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Mordiceius posted:I loving knew Shallan had a shardblade!!!!!! I saw those hints in Way of Kings!!! You think you're sneaky Brandon, but I picked up on it!!
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Jan 12, 2024 01:55
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pik_d posted:Nah, that's a gun.  CapnAndy posted:Ah, but do you know why? (There's always another secret.) Yeah, I look forward to learning more. Shallan haters can vacate. Shallan rules. Also gently caress Tyn. Her very presence was annoying from the start. I didn't find that "She's a Horneater Princess!" thing charming or funny at all, only annoying. Glad she's dead. Also very curious why Shallan decided to keep her shardblade hidden all the previous times her life was in danger. Like for example... while on a boat being raided? Book is good.
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Jan 12, 2024 02:01
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Mordiceius posted:Also very curious why Shallan decided to keep her shardblade hidden all the previous times her life was in danger. Like for example... while on a boat being raided? Yes, why? A very good question!
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Jan 12, 2024 03:13
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Hoooo boy!!! I've finally made progress. Excuse my somewhat navel-gazey post. Words of Radiance - Interludes 1-4 and Part 2. This is the the section where I feel like I've finally been hooked. I knew it would happen eventually and it finally did. In almost all of Sanderson's other books, I felt a compulsion to continue. Since I listen to audiobooks, most of the time I am making progress on the books is when I'm commuting and driving around. With The Lost Metal, I was so eager to keep going that I was squeezing in listening time whenever I could. At the grocery store? Listening. Taking my dog for a walk? Listening. Almost any point where I had alone time, I was listening. The Way of Kings never had that effect on me. I took multiple semi-long breaks while listening and almost entirely listened only while on my commute. Nothing in that book hooked me. Though I was curious to see where the series went. I feel like Part 1 of Words of Radiance was... fine? I liked it more than the entirety of The Way of Kings and I could feel some excitement creeping in, but honestly, I feel like that was immediately smothered by the length of the first section of interludes. I struggled to muster the motivation to get through them. For comparison for those that have been reading the physical book or ebook - The Way of Kings is 1008 pages in hardcover. The audiobook is 45.5 hours long. Words of Radiance is 1088 pages in hardcover. The audiobook is just over 48 hours long. Most of the audiobook chapters are in the 25-40 minute range, which is just about perfect time for to get through a chapter on my way to or from work. That first set of interludes is nearly 2.5 hours in totality. Being that so many of the other interludes in WoK are so disconnected from the main narrative, I found myself struggling to even muster the motivation to start them. So I put them off for a couple weeks. Sanderson books have something I like to refer to as the "hootin' and hollerin'" factor. Almost all of his books will have at least a few moments that make me want to hoot and holler. The Way of Kings didn't have anything that made me hoot or holler. Hell, I feel like that book barely even had what you could consider a Sanderlanche. Part 2 of Words of Radiance, made me hoot and holler. Now that the unnecessarily verbose pontificating is out of the way, let's get into it. Interludes 1-4 We finally get to learn about the Parshendi - the Listeners. It is baffling to me that this is done via interlude. I think I've gotten far to used to interludes being used mostly as world building that I was caught off guard by there being massive revelations for the reader in this section. None of the interludes in Way of Kings felt "essential" to the story. You could argue that the Szeth interludes in WoK are important, but you don't honestly learn much in those and they feel just as non-essential as the dude hanging out at Pure Lake. I look forward to learning why the Listeners have allowed the Alethi to commit genocide against them for the last six years, because right now, it just feels like they're not very fuckin bright. "Let's kill the king of the most war-loving nation on the planet, give them no reason, and then just let them slaughter us for six straight years." Great thinking! I rolled my eyes a little as Eshonai and Venli did everything they could to talk around the reason for the assassination. Can't let the reader know that detail yet! Rip Ym. No idea who that shardblade man is, but I'm sure he's going to be a problem in the future. Rysn's time at the Reshi islands ended up being my favorite of the interludes. Of all the locations in Roshar, the Purelake and the Reshi isles have been my favorite. I would live there. Part 2 Things I liked: - Adolin going HAM during the duel. I enjoyed the brutality of that scene. - Vasher is here! (Yes, I know that's Vasher. A friend of mine spoiled that for me. Annoyingly, he is terrible about spoilers and his idea of getting someone excited for a book is just spoiling major details.) This whole chapter with "Zahel" had me laughing. A fierce duel interrupted by the occasional THUD of of Renarin faceplanting repeatedly after jumping off a tower. - Shallan rules. Haters vacate. - Shallan's flashbacks are good! Granted, there have only been a few and they haven't been long, but I've really enjoyed them and they have a fun air of mystery to them. I think, so far, they work better than Kaladin's flashbacks because we've had a decent amount of time to get to know Shallan and so we aren't bombarded with extremely long flashbacks for a character we barely know. Kaladin's flashbacks felt like they dragged the story down. Shallan's flashbacks feel like they round out her character. - More of Sadeas being a mustache-twirling villain. loving inject this poo poo straight into my veins. He's a rat bastard and I loving love it. I also love that even at points, Amaram finds Sadeas to be distasteful. I don't know when Sadeas will get his, but I look forward to it. Things I didn't like: - Kaladin is still on his "I can't tell them about my powers! They'll take them from me!!!" kick. My man, how? - Tyn was loving lame and I'm glad she's dead. That first exchange between Shallan and Kaladin - well, I don't know if I was supposed to think it was quirky or funny, but I didn't. That whole "Horneater Princess" schtick was dumb and unfun. Things I can assume: - I don't know the details, but clearly Moash is evil. I'm sure that whenever it is eventually revealed, Kaladin will spend half a book depressed, so I'm not looking forward to that. - I still don't think Jasnah is dead. Things that made me hoot and holler: - Dalinar, the best character, loving catching a shardblade between his hands. Real king poo poo right there. I already liked you the most Dalinar, you didn't have to show off so much, but I'm glad you did. - Shallan has a shardblade. <insert the Hellboy comic of the monkey with the gun here> As mentioned prior, I wonder why she held it back all this time.
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Jan 12, 2024 21:04
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Oh just wait until you get into the meat of Oathbringer, you will hoot, holler, fist pump, scream and yell YES
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Jan 12, 2024 21:07
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Louisgod posted:Oh just wait until you get into the meat of Oathbringer, you will hoot, holler, fist pump, scream and yell YES It only took 60 hours of audiobook listening to get to the first hootin and hollerin moment.  Stormlight Archive has been the equivalent of those people who say "Oh the video game gets good after the first 50 hours" or "Yeah, this show is great after the first 2 seasons"
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Jan 12, 2024 21:09
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Mordiceius posted:Things I didn't like:
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Jan 12, 2024 21:10
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CapnAndy posted:It's not a rational fear, which multiple characters including Kaladin himself have called out. You may have noticed by now that he has a massive complex when it comes to the nobility. Yeah, it's pretty clear Kaladin has some extremely severe unresolved trauma considering the nobility (WoK spoilers)effectively took everything from him and turned him into a slave. I prefer to look at Kaladin as a war veteran with severe PTSD as opposed to a goon with depression.
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Jan 12, 2024 21:16
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CapnAndy posted:It's not a rational fear, which multiple characters including Kaladin himself have called out. You may have noticed by now that he has a massive complex when it comes to the nobility. Oh absolutely. It's completely irrational. Rarely has there been a character in fiction that I just want to take by the shoulders and shake repeatedly. It does feel like he is at least considering telling Dalinar. I'm sure I'll have to wait until the end of this book though.
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Jan 12, 2024 21:17
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Louisgod posted:I prefer to look at Kaladin as a war veteran with severe PTSD as opposed to a goon with depression. Also worth remembering that Roshar has no therapists, because they literally haven't invented the concept of therapy yet.
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Jan 12, 2024 22:34
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Mordiceius posted:Oh absolutely. It's completely irrational. Rarely has there been a character in fiction that I just want to take by the shoulders and shake repeatedly. It does feel like he is at least considering telling Dalinar. I'm sure I'll have to wait until the end of this book though. Completely nailed the feeling of both being and dealing with a chronically depressed person with massive trauma. In other news, I got my Stormlight Minis pledge finally, and I have large size (2.5 inch base) minis of Adolin, Dalinar, Shallan, and Jasnah. They're pre-painted, but I didn't really want them, they just came with the pledge. Thinking of just priming them and redoing the paint job, because I think even with my garbage skills I can do better.
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Jan 12, 2024 22:37
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I just had a thought about Autonomy. All Cosmere spoilers:If the future big conflict is Roshar vs Scadrial, that tells us something about the success of Autonomy's plans to crowd out the other shards by setting up copies/avatars of herself as the local gods, doesn't it?
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Jan 13, 2024 12:47
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Torrannor posted:I just had a thought about Autonomy. All Cosmere spoilers:If the future big conflict is Roshar vs Scadrial, that tells us something about the success of Autonomy's plans to crowd out the other shards by setting up copies/avatars of herself as the local gods, doesn't it? Or corrupting/consuming/shattering them
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Jan 13, 2024 13:16
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So I finished Defiant, overall it was just meh Like I'm glad the book wasn't "Spin met a group of pilots and they learned to fly together and be a family" for the FOURTH time, but the vibration/I am a weapon thing felt like it was the entire book and got very repetitive. Also I don't like how much happened in supplemental material and how it constantly reminded you of how much you missed out by not reading it, typically he is better about that. The ending was good overall, beating your enemies via love and empathy is a perfectly valid resolution for a YA book.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:09
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socialsecurity posted:So I finished Defiant, overall it was just meh Like I'm glad the book wasn't "Spin met a group of pilots and they learned to fly together and be a family" for the FOURTH time, but the vibration/I am a weapon thing felt like it was the entire book and got very repetitive. Also I don't like how much happened in supplemental material and how it constantly reminded you of how much you missed out by not reading it, typically he is better about that. The ending was good overall, beating your enemies via love and empathy is a perfectly valid resolution for a YA book. He couldn't help himself from adding numerology. There's a throw away detail about how they've only figured out what 8 types of slugs do, but there's another 8 that somehow aren't understood by anyone, not even Cuna or the other Superiority people. But my guy just likes having 16 of a thing. Also the giant space worms are 100% either a type of slug, or the form they take for mating. Somehow we're gonna find out that no one bothered to ask if they're cytonic in the legacy series
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Jan 13, 2024 19:03
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I recently re-listened to ROW, and I have a question (full spoilers) the second to last set of epigrams seems like it's Restares/Kalak writing, including this: "The singers first put Jezrien into a gemstone. They think they are clever, discovering they can trap us in those. It only took them seven thousand years." "Yes, die. If you’re reading this and wondering what went wrong—why my soul evaporated soon after being claimed by the gemstone in your knife—then I name you idiot for playing with powers you only presume to understand." But then at the end Shallan doesn't go through with it, so he's still alive. Was that just a misdirect, and we're getting excerpts of his journal that no one is actually reading? Did I somehow miss the chapter where someone else comes and kills him?
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Jan 15, 2024 20:06
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road potato posted:I recently re-listened to ROW, and I have a question (full spoilers) I think you're pretty much spot on. He wrote it as a "you killed me, you idiot" note that didn't need to be used, since he was around to talk to Shallan.
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Jan 15, 2024 20:10
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road potato posted:I recently re-listened to ROW, and I have a question (full spoilers)
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Jan 15, 2024 20:10
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Mordiceius posted:
The hootin' and hollerin factor is much better in Words of Radiance, you've got some fun 'sit in your car in the driveway to finish the chapter' quality scenes later in this book.
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Jan 15, 2024 20:11
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Yumi and the Nightmare Painter This book nearly killed me with the ending. I really thought that Yumi was giving up her existence to save the planet, as was her reason for existence. But I think, like Tress, this book being a sort of gift for his wife, he allowed Yumi to have her cake and eat it too. Which is just fine with me for these. I don't think it would work well in Stormlight, but here it's perfect. After the Komashi astronauts made it to UTol and the Sho Del, I was pretty convinced that Yumi and Painter were just on the same planet. I thought that maybe the Shoud ended at some point and Yumi's cities were way out there, but having some kind of Investiture backdrop and making it all a prison for the yoki-hijo was not on my radar at all. Yumi being an Invested Cognitive Shadow that is 1700 years old? REALLY not on my radar. Cool to know Elantrians are more invested than Returned though. And Yumi is up there with them. I was also pretty sure Painter wasn't rejected from the Dreamwatch for his skill, but I did not see them being a bunch of nepo-babies. I thought (before the big reveal) that Dreamwatch was working with the scholars and giving them technology. I do love that he got rejected from Dreamwatch, then basically became the best Dreammwatcher ever (in the same way Yumi became the best yoki-hijo ever) and made Dreamwatch obsolete. That'll show them to reject him. I also didn't see Masaka being a Sleepless, but that's still pretty cool. She said she was tired of wars, which isn't that surprising given what the Cosmere seems to be building to, I wonder if she was running from anything specific though. Based on Hoid and Design planning to escape on a spaceship to Iron Seven Waystation, it sounds like this takes place in Mistborn Era 4? Iron Seven sounds very much like a Scadrial space station. And It's cool to see Hoid learning from Odium stealing some of his Investiture/memories, though his safety protocols could use a bit of fine tuning. It's really cool that this planet is free from the Shroud too, and is now I guess a mix of Yumi's world and Painter's world. All the technology from the current world, but most (?) of the environment from Yumi's time. I know she's laying low, but I wonder how important her presence will be going forward. I wonder if Akane and Tojin ended up together too. Some things I'm confused about, who was the yoki-hijo that was reaching out of the Shroud? Was it just one of the other yoki-hijos who also figured out something was wrong? I also hope that the astronauts on UTol were able to make it home. I'm sure not all of the spirits wanted to remain as hion. And why did Virtuosity Splinter herself? On to the last book on my list before I'm caught up, I'll soon be completely free. Progress so far: 
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Jan 15, 2024 20:12
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pik_d posted:Yumi and the Nightmare Painter quote:And why did Virtuosity Splinter herself?
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Jan 15, 2024 20:38
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pik_d posted:On to the last book on my list before I'm caught up, I'll soon be completely free. There's also the Sixth of the Dusk sequel chapter that's out there, plus of course the Stormlight 5 prologue that Brandon did a reading of, which sparked a lot of discussion.
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Jan 15, 2024 20:52
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Torrannor posted:There's also the Sixth of the Dusk sequel chapter that's out there, plus of course the Stormlight 5 prologue that Brandon did a reading of, which sparked a lot of discussion. Where can I find these?
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Jan 15, 2024 20:57
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pik_d posted:Where can I find these? https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/ This is a banger, which should not be surprise, seeing whose PoV it is... https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/93066-rhythm-of-war-online-release-party-111720/page/5/#comment-1117814 Also really great.
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Jan 15, 2024 21:01
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The Sixth sequel is tantalizing as gently caress. Why did Roshar send a Skybreaker, of all the orders? Is a human or singer behind the armor? (Probably human, seven feet is too short for a singer.) What's with that talk of fighting in return for elevation and status, which is very Odium-flavored?
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Jan 15, 2024 21:09
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CapnAndy posted:The Sixth sequel is tantalizing as gently caress. Why did Roshar send a Skybreaker, of all the orders? Is a human or singer behind the armor? (Probably human, seven feet is too short for a singer.) What's with that talk of fighting in return for elevation and status, which is very Odium-flavored? That Skybreaker has armor that glows with a violet-blue light, so probably Warlight. Is it a surprise that this Sykbreaker has Odium-flavored speech then? It certainly suggest that Taravodium winning, or Dalinar uniting Honor and Odium are not at all unlikely outcomes.
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Jan 15, 2024 21:13
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Torrannor posted:https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/ And I thought my opinion of .......Gavilar....... couldn't get any worse  Very interesting how different the Stormfather acted around him, even appearing visibly in front of him. And lying to Gavilar? Really odd.The Sixth sequel, yeah, very wild. I wonder how the Ones Above want to weaponize the Aviars, because that's almost certainly what this is about. And the Skybreaker, that makes things super interesting.
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Jan 16, 2024 00:13
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Oh poo poo, pik, you can be initiated into the batshit fan theories now, I just realized! There's one about that prologue and one about Shallan, would you like to hear them?
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Jan 16, 2024 00:23
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CapnAndy posted:Oh poo poo, pik, you can be initiated into the batshit fan theories now, I just realized! Is the one about Shallan that her mother (all the spoilers) is a Herald, and when Shallan killed her she broke the Oathpact and that means Taln is innocent? Give me everything (that doesn't involve The Sunlit Man)
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Jan 16, 2024 00:25
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pik_d posted:Is the one about Shallan that her mother (all the spoilers) is a Herald, and when Shallan killed her she broke the Oathpact and that means Taln is innocent? As for the SA5 prologue, the theory is that that's not the Stormfather, it's Ishar pretending. He is, as you've noticed, acting completely off compared to every other time we've seen him, he keeps mentioning words Gavilar needs to say but reacts strongest to "give it to me. Now. I need it.", which are not the Words, whereas when Gavilar drat near recites the First Ideal, he calls that "not even close", he reacts incredibly strongly to the death of a Herald but displayed absolutely no sign he was aware anything happened when Jezrien died.
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Jan 16, 2024 00:38
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SA5 Prologue. That did vaguely occur to me (not that it was Ishar, but that it wasn't the Stormfather). I'm curious how Ishar would have given Gavilar the visions, but with his ability to manipulate Connection I'm sure there's a way. I do recall already thinking the Stormfather had been working with Gavilar, but I don't remember the specific reasons, other than directing Dalinar towards The Way of Kings. I don't remember if the Stormfather ever made reference to him.
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Jan 16, 2024 00:47
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Obviously the shallan theory isn't needlessly convoluted enough, its gotta be more comolex like Shallan's mom was a herald, but she actually killed Shallan instead of the other way around (herald reflexes are mad fast). Out of grief, her already fragmenting herald mind broke entirely, and she became convinced she fidn't kill Shallan, Shallan killed her, and therefore obviously she was Shallan.
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Jan 16, 2024 01:02
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Oh yeah, I forgot two things, one for each theory: The Stormfather flat swears an oath that he's never going to deal with the Kholins again, which is kinda impossible to square with "and then he started sending the visions to Dalinar", and Brandon's answers have gotten extremely cagey whenever "can Heralds have children" have come up, but he's confirmed that they can.
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Jan 16, 2024 01:14
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CapnAndy posted:Oh yeah, I forgot two things, one for each theory: The Stormfather flat swears an oath that he's never going to deal with the Kholins again, which is kinda impossible to square with "and then he started sending the visions to Dalinar", and Brandon's answers have gotten extremely cagey whenever "can Heralds have children" have come up, but he's confirmed that they can. This can be explained. The Stormfather said that Honor demanded of him to show these visions to certain people under the right circumstances. Assuming Cultivation-ed Dalinar meets these criteria, then the Stormfather would have no choice but to show Dalinar these visions. It's notable that Gavilar got the visions plus communication from the "Stormfather" what these mean. Dalinar meanwhile just got the visions without any explanation. That would imho fit with the Stormfather wanting nothing to do with the Kholins, but later coming around to bond Dalinar. CapnAndy posted:whereas when Gavilar drat near recites the First Ideal, he calls that "not even close" The Stormfather wasn't impressed with Dalinar swearing the First Ideal, either, but only bonds him after Dalinar swore the Second Ideal as well. It could go either way, but currently I'm leaning into "too obvious, this is a red herring", and that this is the real Stormfather. And while the Stormfather didn't react to Jezrien's death, the circumstances were vastly different. Whoever died in the prologue was obviously a huge concern, since the Stormfather knew that they would break as soon as they were caught, so the Final Desolation coming was just a matter of (very short!) time. In contrast, Jezrien's death basically had no consequences except knocking out some useless Heralds. And it was a very different death than all the other Herald deaths, it's possible the Stormfather was unable to detect this event due to the way Jezrien was killed.
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Jan 16, 2024 01:28
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re: all stormlight as far as i'm concerned Chana Davar is basically canon until we get enough new SA5 to know otherwise, there's just so much poo poo pointing that way. but i think the Fake Stormfather thing is much shakier, he's always been a crafty liar and it's just further exposing some of that
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Jan 16, 2024 01:41
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Torrannor posted:This can be explained. The Stormfather said that Honor demanded of him to show these visions to certain people under the right circumstances. Assuming Cultivation-ed Dalinar meets these criteria, then the Stormfather would have no choice but to show Dalinar these visions. It's notable that Gavilar got the visions plus communication from the "Stormfather" what these mean. Dalinar meanwhile just got the visions without any explanation. That would imho fit with the Stormfather wanting nothing to do with the Kholins, but later coming around to bond Dalinar. Torrannor posted:The Stormfather wasn't impressed with Dalinar swearing the First Ideal, either, but only bonds him after Dalinar swore the Second Ideal as well. CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jan 16, 2024 |
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Jan 16, 2024 01:46
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CapnAndy posted:But the Stormfather is literally the spren of oaths, he's insanely down on violating an oath for any reason to the point where he doesn't actually believe that it's possible to justify breaking an oath until he's been bonded to Dalinar for quite some time. An unbonded, inhumanly rigid Stormfather would not swear an unkeepable oath; it'd break him. But of course if you accept the prologue Stormfather as the real deal, well, he's a proven liar so you can just file that under "well he was lying about that poo poo too", but... I can't make it fit. SA5 prologue: Well, then to get to this from another angle, where is he swearing an oath to never deal with the Kholins again? "I’m sorry, Gavilar. I will never trust your family again. I made that mistake once. I will not do so again." Are you referring to this? I have two issues with your theory here. Firstly, he's not swearing an oath imho. That's a statement of intent, nothing more. If you say you will go grocery shopping today but then later decide you will instead go shopping tomorrow instead because you worked overtime, you didn't lie when you first stated your intention to buy groceries today. So in the same vein, this is not an oath, and so the Stormfather is perfectly fine to change his mind later. Secondly, there's no mention at all of working with the Kholins. He's speaking solely about trusting. And so even if we were to take this as an oath, sending visions as demanded by the Almighty doesn't mean he's trusting Dalinar. And working with Dalinar to fight against Odium doesn't necessitate trusting him, either. Dalinar didn't trust Taravangian at all after Oathbringer, but still worked with him while taking ample precautions in case of betrayal. The Stormfather might well be doing something very similar with Dalinar. It would explain why he's holding back so much important information. He's carefully managing Dalinar because he doesn't trust him. So I think there's no oath in the first place, and even if there were, there's no proof that the Stormfather is breaking it. To me, this objection to why that can't be the real Stormfather doesn't hold up. CapnAndy posted:Yeah, but he spends the entire prologue trying to goad Gavilar into saying the Words. So why is he apparently doing misdirection as to what they are, or else wanting wrong Words? It's very fucky, just like everything else in that scene. There is certainly fuckery going on. But he's trying to make Gavilar into a Herald, perhaps bonding him wouldn't be in the Stormfather's interests at this point? He wasn't enthused about bonding Dalinar, either. If Gavilar were to become a Herald, it would probably be a bad thing for the Stormfather to be bound to him. The Stormfather's Bondsmith can release Odium from the bindings Honor placed on him, and a Herald is in quite some danger to get captured and tortured by Odium's troops eventually. They might be able to torture that Herald into releasing Odium? We don't know if the Stormfather is trying to make Dalinar into a Herald as well. Maybe not, and that's why he bonded him, but misdirected Gavilar. Fake-edit: Ah, the good old days of the thread resembling a CIA document 
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Jan 16, 2024 02:16
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