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FunkyAl posted:Star wars is explicably sexual. People get married and there are kids and families. Everyone is trying to gently caress everything on star trek. There is an entire gently caress planet. Captain Janeway and Paris turn into super dimensional lizards and procreate. Beverly Crusher has sex with a ghost that has been in the family for 400 years and abandons her old life completely. Riker is there. And then there's Lower Decks. Between the orgy scene putting the graphic into holographic and the line "The Cerritos is the horniest ship in the fleet" LDS really leans into it. And if you want the really long-form video essay about it, this is a good watch. CW for an in-depth examination of what happened to poor Grace Lee Whitney. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxqQwAVEbM8
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Jan 22, 2024 06:12
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Trek adjacent, but there's an interesting episode of the Orville I've seen (the only episode I've seen) where the cast takes an incredibly hard line stance against messing with the time line. It's horrifying and worth the watch. Season 3, episode 6.
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Jan 22, 2024 06:16
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Obama might never have been President if Seven of Nine's husband wasn't a wannabe swinger
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Jan 22, 2024 06:32
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By transitive property, does that mean Neimoidians are the horniest Star Wars race? Is Nute Gunray a sex symbol?
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Jan 22, 2024 07:02
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trevorreznik posted:Trek adjacent, but there's an interesting episode of the Orville I've seen (the only episode I've seen) where the cast takes an incredibly hard line stance against messing with the time line. It's horrifying and worth the watch. The Orville is a legit good show, you should check the rest out.
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Jan 22, 2024 07:20
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YaketySass posted:By transitive property, does that mean Neimoidians are the horniest Star Wars race? Is Nute Gunray a sex symbol? The Trade Federation are actually already a cheeky Star Trek riff. They're literally a Federation, the droids use the Starfleet colour scheme for ranks, and the mother ships have an inverted Enterprise design.
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Jan 22, 2024 07:50
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FunkyAl posted:Star wars is explicably sexual. People get married and there are kids and families. Everyone is trying to gently caress everything on star trek. There is an entire gently caress planet. Captain Janeway and Paris turn into super dimensional lizards and procreate. Beverly Crusher has sex with a ghost that has been in the family for 400 years and abandons her old life completely. Riker is there.
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Jan 22, 2024 16:50
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We're back to the techno-optimism vs pessimism thing again. Star Trek posits that, in the future!, things will be great for horny nerds. Star Wars has the female lead die in childbirth.
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Jan 22, 2024 17:55
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She died of a broken heart, almost literally. Very fairytale logic.
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Jan 22, 2024 17:57
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Ghost Leviathan posted:She died of a broken heart, almost literally. Very fairytale logic. Yeah, they say that medically, there's nothing wrong with her. She's just lost the will to live. Even though she'd just given birth to two children. Whom she would now have to raise, on her own, as a single parent...actually, that checks out. Sort of like when Yoda got so tired of Luke asking him questions he just loving died.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:22
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Glottis posted:The Orville is a legit good show, you should check the rest out. the orville is good but after a while it stops being a TNG style space caper of the week and it starts to become narrowly focused on the machine race and the captain's love life and the show suffers for it imho
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Jan 22, 2024 18:23
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I also think the ST is about as sexual as most movies these days, i.e. not very. Marvel movies are extremely chaste, and they're the biggest movies in the world (for a little while longer). So I think that's just a changing of the time for movies in general, at least at the PG-13 level.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:25
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thrawn527 posted:Yeah, they say that medically, there's nothing wrong with her. She's just lost the will to live. Even though she'd just given birth to two children. Whom she would now have to raise, on her own, as a single parent...actually, that checks out. Even Obi-Wan decided "nah" and ditched them asap
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Jan 22, 2024 18:28
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The other thing the droid doctor says is "for reasons we can't explain, we are losing her." Anakin drained her life force to keep himself alive. That's how you save people from dying: put more life force in them. The troubling implication is that she's now more dead than she would have been otherwise- Yoda says that when people die they become one with the Force, but Padme can't because her Force was drained by Anakin. He ate her soul.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:55
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thrawn527 posted:Yeah, they say that medically, there's nothing wrong with her. She's just lost the will to live.. It’s interesting who says that
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Jan 22, 2024 18:56
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Padme's death is just the PG-13 version of suicide. It's kind of odd they felt the need to include the "physically there's nothing wrong with her" line when otherwise people would just reasonably assume she died from complications worsened by the shock/strangulation. I wonder if it was a "Greedo shot first" situation where Lucas decided Vader straight up killing her would be too dark. Or maybe it was about giving her some twisted sense of agency, considering how she's incredibly passive the rest of the movie.
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Jan 22, 2024 19:52
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They should’ve had anakin cause her internal bleeding or something where she can still have a moment before she dies but it’s 100% anakins fault
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Jan 22, 2024 20:47
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Black comedy option: don't have the robot hospital, just three old men who are completely unprepared for this flailing around her in panic.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:00
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Luke and Leia are dying and she gives them her life force. There. What a noble end.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:02
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I imagine Lucas was trying to toe the line of the audience feeling Anakin's actions are unredeemable. Anakin's slaughter of the younglings was off-screen, softening its power on the audience, but his abuse of Padme was on-screen. Both showing that and having her directly die from it might have just crossed the line in his mind.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:10
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Padme is 100% killing herself as a “gently caress you” to the dark side. That’s why it’s important to specify that there’s nothing medically wrong with her.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Padme is 100% killing herself as a “gently caress you” to the dark side. That’s why it’s important to specify that there’s nothing medically wrong with her. And a "I don't think about you at all" to her kids, I guess.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:29
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thrawn527 posted:And a "I don't think about you at all" to her kids, I guess. In the movie Man Of Steel, Superman’s parents die on Krypton even though they have access to space-ships. As with Padme, this was very deliberate. Clark Kent: Why didn't you come with me? Jor-El: We couldn't, Kal. No matter how much we wanted to, no matter how we loved you. Your mother, Lara, and I were a product of the failures of our world as much as Zod was. It's hard to explain.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:38
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thrawn527 posted:And a "I don't think about you at all" to her kids, I guess. leia lying to herself saying she knew her mom.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:52
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It’s just interesting to me that a droid would give an opinion about the will to live
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Jan 22, 2024 21:57
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why. they're people with a soul.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In the movie Man Of Steel, Superman’s parents die on Krypton even though they have access to space-ships. As with Padme, this was very deliberate. I think Anakin's a product of Sheev
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Jan 22, 2024 22:08
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Sheev hosed the salt vampire.
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Jan 22, 2024 22:12
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Halloween Jack posted:Sheev hosed the salt vampire. 
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Jan 22, 2024 22:27
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the common fan theory that sheev sucked padme's life force out of her to keep vader alive is one of the classic Star Wars EU cases of taking a thematic idea (the death of the Republic is the birth of the Empire, but there's still hope) which is expressed through an elegant metaphor (Padme dies as Darth Vader lives, but her children survive as well) and making the metaphor stiflingly, stupidly literal
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Jan 23, 2024 01:10
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Halloween Jack posted:Sheev hosed the salt vampire. She's a handsome woman...
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Jan 23, 2024 01:30
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CelticPredator posted:leia lying to herself saying she knew her mom. Both Luke and Leia are powerfully Force sensitive, it could well be the reading that even in birth or in utero they felt a psychic connection to her. feedmyleg posted:I imagine Lucas was trying to toe the line of the audience feeling Anakin's actions are unredeemable. Anakin's slaughter of the younglings was off-screen, softening its power on the audience, but his abuse of Padme was on-screen. Both showing that and having her directly die from it might have just crossed the line in his mind. There's foreshadowing of this, at least in that Clone Wars bit about how the Dark Side grants you power- far more than you can control. Anakin becomes the monstrous killing machine that is Darth Vader long before Mustafar, killing literally everything he touches, and only Obi-Wan is able to survive by meeting force with force. (No pun intended) Physical, emotional and spiritual damage are kinda all the same thing with the Force, especially the Dark Side. (especially since I always had the vibe that it also goes the other way; Force users can heal others by showing and feeling such immense empathy and care for them that they give their energy to them and take the pain upon themselves)
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Jan 23, 2024 04:30
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Leia could be referring to her adoptive mother in that conversation with Luke. Bail's wife.thrawn527 posted:And a "I don't think about you at all" to her kids, I guess. She's a rich lib, op Blood Boils fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jan 23, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 09:05
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ungulateman posted:the common fan theory that sheev sucked padme's life force out of her to keep vader alive is one of the classic Star Wars EU cases of taking a thematic idea (the death of the Republic is the birth of the Empire, but there's still hope) which is expressed through an elegant metaphor (Padme dies as Darth Vader lives, but her children survive as well) and making the metaphor stiflingly, stupidly literal I think the issue is less about making metaphors literal. Star Wars is an allegory where the distinction between metaphoric and literal meaning is often collapsed. Consider the droids who are both metaphors for dehumanized underclasses and also literally an inhuman underclass, or how Obi-Wan is a world class bullshitter and that's expressed by him being a wizard with literal magic lying powers. The issue is a desire to explain how these metaphors are also literal instead of just accepting them as such. It's like reading the Grail myth and deciding that it's not enough for the Fisher King's and his kingdom's health being one and the same, so you write an explanation involving chemicals in the local water or how A.A. Attanasio's retelling of the Arthur myth involves the sword being stuck in the stone because of magnetism. You can take it as a generic failure if you wish, reading something that presents itself in a mythic frame instead in a SF frame, needing that  instead of just accepting the story on its face.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:35
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My least favourite one of these is "How were the Jedi corrupted by the Dark Side? They accidentally built their temple over top of a Sith temple, so the Evilness Particles seeped into their brains." More Dungeons & Dragons thinking.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:50
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Halloween Jack posted:My least favourite one of these is "How were the Jedi corrupted by the Dark Side? They accidentally built their temple over top of a Sith temple, so the Evilness Particles seeped into their brains." More Dungeons & Dragons thinking. But then, in true dialectical fashion, this flips again to being 100% true when you realize that this could just be referring to the Star Wars equivalent of Washington D.C. or Wall Street.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:21
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PeterWeller posted:I think the issue is less about making metaphors literal. Star Wars is an allegory where the distinction between metaphoric and literal meaning is often collapsed. Consider the droids who are both metaphors for dehumanized underclasses and also literally an inhuman underclass, or how Obi-Wan is a world class bullshitter and that's expressed by him being a wizard with literal magic lying powers. The issue is a desire to explain how these metaphors are also literal instead of just accepting them as such. It's like reading the Grail myth and deciding that it's not enough for the Fisher King's and his kingdom's health being one and the same, so you write an explanation involving chemicals in the local water or how A.A. Attanasio's retelling of the Arthur myth involves the sword being stuck in the stone because of magnetism. You can take it as a generic failure if you wish, reading something that presents itself in a mythic frame instead in a SF frame, needing that The Fisher King was usually wounded for an actual reason though, even if its just a vague allusion to events that occur before the story. That's Padme's problem. The droid saying 'she just dies' did not really convince the audience. Padme's death needs a direct causal link to a character representing the Empire to move the themes forward. It's not really relevant whether that mechanism is losing the will to live, Force Life Drain, or Palpatine sneaking around and injecting her with poison. That boils down to just picking which story of the Fisher King's wound that you prefer, which is hardly an invalid way to enjoy the story.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:41
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The Fisher King was usually wounded for an actual reason though, even if its just a vague allusion to events that occur before the story. That's Padme's problem. The droid saying 'she just dies' did not really convince the audience. Padme's death needs a direct causal link to a character representing the Empire to move the themes forward. It's not really relevant whether that mechanism is losing the will to live, Force Life Drain, or Palpatine sneaking around and injecting her with poison. That boils down to just picking which story of the Fisher King's wound that you prefer, which is hardly an invalid way to enjoy the story. My point isn't about the direct cause of the Fisher King's wound. My point is about the connection between the Fisher King's wound and the fallen state of his kingdom. It needs no more explanation than the body of the king is the kingdom and the kingdom is the body of the king. There doesn't need to be any further mechanics. In Padme's case, we did see her get strangled by Anakin, but that's not really what's important. She dies because all she loves has died. In both cases, the character and the state are metonymy for each other.
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Jan 24, 2024 23:08
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Halloween Jack posted:My least favourite one of these is "How were the Jedi corrupted by the Dark Side? They accidentally built their temple over top of a Sith temple, so the Evilness Particles seeped into their brains." More Dungeons & Dragons thinking. That's what happens when you don't get a proper survey done
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Jan 24, 2024 23:16
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PeterWeller posted:She dies because all she loves has died.
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Jan 24, 2024 23:21
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