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Waroduce posted:big rear end spoiler stuff It's very possible that Samus was created from Loken's death, especially given Ahriman's lecture on the nature of Daemons and how their manifestation comes from particularly atrocious acts in realspace. Erebus echoing Ahriman's words right after stabbing Loken just adds more fuel to that idea.
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Jan 27, 2024 16:47
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Waroduce posted:big rear end spoiler stuff Loken isn't Samus. Samus is the daemon created by the psychic event of Erebus murdering Loken when he was trying to broker conciliation. Kind of like how Drach'nyen is the daemon created by the murder of Abel by Cain. And yes Erebus is always the worst.
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Jan 27, 2024 16:51
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Waroduce posted:big rear end spoiler stuff He's the only name you'll hear. He's the man beside you. He is the end and the death. (I think he's the daemon born from the betrayal and murder of Loken and the loss of the possibility of redemption for Abaddon and the other traitors). In a sense he is the daemon of the very age, born by this final act of the Heresy.
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Jan 27, 2024 16:52
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I need to re-read it since I banged through it last night, but I felt like there were hints that a reconciliation could have been made possible had the Emperor not excised his emotions and gave Horus an opportunity to talk or come back into the fold. In the begining of the duel it seemed like there were some spots where something could have happened. Watching Loken and Horus have their father-son heart to heart and the emotions of that moment causing Horus to let his energy go was a cute play though. That does make complete sense about Samus being born
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Jan 27, 2024 17:04
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Emps shed more and more aspects to continue the fight and with each one dying in turn it did feel like any alternative resolution was lost. He could only face Horus by giving it his all in every measure. Once the fight started it was over. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 17:08
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I'm pretty sure Horus muses about how he offered playful parry or something and wanting to talk to his father but Big E tries to take his head off. I gotta re-read it. Also, no fuckin Pandemonium / King in Yellow plugs although we did get an Ennuncia sighting e: Mildly disappointed it didn't open or close with "I was there the day Horus slew the emperor"
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Jan 27, 2024 17:21
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To be fair to Emps Horus did strike the first blow. Horus ain't owed poo poo after that and Emps wasn't in a good mood to talk.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:23
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Arc Hammer posted:To be fair to Emps Horus did strike the first blow. Horus ain't owed poo poo after that and Emps wasn't in a good mood to talk. Horus is so lost in delusion, it's very compelling. Like he actually just cannot see what is going on in truth, he doesn't think he's the bad guy here.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:28
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lines posted:Horus is so lost in delusion, it's very compelling. Like he actually just cannot see what is going on in truth, he doesn't think he's the bad guy here. I love the repetition of "This is how He—" during the duel as Horus continues to come up with rationalizations in his head for how he thinks things should go before immediately getting swatted down by another attempt by Emps. I also really like how Emps fights so dirty the entire time. No honorable bouts or respect for your opponent. Just unbridled aggression and psychological cruelty if it means winning.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:44
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Arc Hammer posted:I love the repetition of "This is how He—" during the duel as Horus continues to come up with rationalizations in his head for how he thinks things should go before immediately getting swatted down by another attempt by Emps. And I think he only does that because of what he cut out beforehand. Horus really really has a view for How This Was Meant To Go and it's sad! Poor guy. Shame about all the killing.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:49
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Holy poo poo gently caress Erebus with a rake  Waroduce posted:
Yeah I'm a little miffed by this. Maybe it's a good thing that Bananamonium's developments will be a bit more slow rolled.
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Jan 27, 2024 21:02
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Potato Salad posted:Holy poo poo gently caress Erebus with a rake I like that he is always the reason we can't have nice things.
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Jan 27, 2024 21:14
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Fuuuuckin’ Erebus! Where’s a good servitor with a box when you need one!
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Jan 27, 2024 21:22
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Erebus' tally stands at: Horus, Argel Tal, Loken, and the future of the galaxy
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Jan 27, 2024 21:56
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Kylaer posted:Erebus' tally stands at: Horus, Argel Tal, Loken, and the future of the galaxy you forgot Erebus imo he's also instrumental with Magnus losing a very important rhetorical point with Horus
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Jan 27, 2024 22:30
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Potato Salad posted:you forgot Erebus Does he do anything for the next 10k years?
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Jan 27, 2024 22:41
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lines posted:Does he do anything for the next 10k years? On the run for 10,000 years avoiding Kharn's axe?
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Jan 27, 2024 22:58
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Arc Hammer posted:On the run for 10,000 years avoiding Kharn's axe? Literally imagining Benny Hill music.
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Jan 27, 2024 23:07
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lines posted:Literally imagining Benny Hill music. Kharn keeps crossing paths with Corax as he's huntng for Lorgar, they both nod and wave and continue their separate ways.
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Jan 27, 2024 23:29
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I really liked the second-person Horus portions, but it’s important to remember that in those moments he is completely delusional. All of his statements about what the Emperor is doing, or what he himself is doing, or why he’s doing any of it, are totally unreliable.
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Jan 27, 2024 23:44
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I really liked the second-person Horus portions, but it’s important to remember that in those moments he is completely delusional. All of his statements about what the Emperor is doing, or what he himself is doing, or why he’s doing any of it, are totally unreliable. I think it's clear some of the more psychedelic stuff is really happening just from how the other characters act and respond, but yes I agree. I think he even maybe believes it in the moment! Or at least whatever is telling him that believes it! But yeah he is totally cuckoo for coco pops.
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Jan 28, 2024 00:05
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Download book Start book Read lengthy Dramatis Personae Book immediately begins with characters that weren’t in the Dramatis Personae Oh Abnett you scamp
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Jan 28, 2024 00:11
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Arc Hammer posted:It's very possible that Samus was created from Loken's death, especially given Ahriman's lecture on the nature of Daemons and how their manifestation comes from particularly atrocious acts in realspace. Erebus echoing Ahriman's words right after stabbing Loken just adds more fuel to that idea. That’s explicitly what happened. It’s not hinted at, it’s right there in the text: that’s what happened.
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Jan 28, 2024 00:53
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von Metternich posted:Download book The dramatis personae is too long as is. I don't need to know the names of fifty different inconsequential Sons of Horus. I don't care if Tybalt Malabreux is the Grand Disemboweler of 4th Company Catulan Reavers, it just doesn't matter. And even with the dramatis personae I can't keep all the Dark Angels straight  Although the worst dramatis personae is the second Urdesh book, which names characters who aren't in the book and who I actually wanted to find out what happens to after the first book.
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Jan 28, 2024 01:01
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I very much enjoyed that.
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Jan 28, 2024 04:01
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It's over. It's done. I never thought seeing a space viking on the cover of a rule book when I was 11 would turn into 23 years of giving a poo poo about the lore of a wargame I don't even play. What a way to stick the landing.
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Jan 28, 2024 04:57
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Truly, the end and the death of an era of book publishing.
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Jan 28, 2024 05:42
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I really liked the second-person Horus portions, but it’s important to remember that in those moments he is completely delusional. All of his statements about what the Emperor is doing, or what he himself is doing, or why he’s doing any of it, are totally unreliable. Yeah a lot of that was clearly the big four talking to him which was awesome
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Jan 28, 2024 06:02
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Spoilers for volume three The loken fake out where the Emp appears as Loken to get Horus to lower his guard was masterful . I was completely faked out by it !!
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Jan 28, 2024 06:04
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Agathe: ‘How do you know that?’ ‘Moriana: I’ve always been inquisitive,’ Was that really necessary, Black Library??
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Jan 28, 2024 06:32
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Ollanius going berserk with a lasgun might be included as a nod to the belief in the Guard that it was a guardsman who last defended the Emperor from Horus
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Jan 28, 2024 06:48
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Potato Salad posted:Ollanius going berserk with a lasgun might be included as a nod to the belief in the Guard that it was a guardsman who last defended the Emperor from Horus Moriana literally starts spreading the story among Agathe's troops and when questioned she says that good lies are better than bad truths. And even then she was technically correct that Olly stood up to Horus, even if he wasn't the last defender.
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Jan 28, 2024 06:52
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oh poo poo it was a guardsman who last defended the Emperor 
Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 06:52
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Arc Hammer posted:even if he wasn't the last defender. wait was he not? John didnt really do anything
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Jan 28, 2024 06:54
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they planted this seed all the way back when Oll retired from the Guard to Calth 12 years ago in Know No Fear So, narratively, Oll wasn't created just to be some guardsman. He was created to be The Guardsman, the Emperor's first and by far oldest guardsman. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 06:59
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Potato Salad posted:wait was he not? John didnt really do anything I mean Garviel's appeal to what was left of Horus's humanity kinda puts him in as the final defender, at least sequentially.
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Jan 28, 2024 07:04
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I recommend you all read the Author afterword. Abnett has said that he might one day do an annotaded version of TEATD (it is afterall, technically 1 book) where he notes all the loose ends, plot points, easter eggs etc. But also you should read it to see the limits he was still working under. What he was and wasnt allowed to show/tell.
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Jan 28, 2024 08:47
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I finished it. The whole drat thing. And my reaction was...was all that necessary? The Emperor/Horus fight didn't have to be all of..that. It's important because of the relationship between the characters. To get really 2009 Red Letter Media up in here, the simple, emotional, non-flashy lightsaber fights in the original Star Wars trilogy are a better story than the bigger-budget Prequel trilogy fights. We didn't need all of the different things that went into that fight scene. It didn't have to be the biggest baddest epicest fight scene ever, it just had to have characters and stakes that you cared about, and be well-written. I know 40k in general is not really a minimalistic setting, but... I also preferred the old lore where the Emperor was holding himself back until he realized how totally gone Horus was, and then he just annihilated him. Him getting knocked down several times and then getting rescued by various things wasn't really interesting because the Emperor isn't really a character. That's the kind of thing you get when, at the end, the hero overcomes a stronger force with the friends he made along the way. Which the emperor didn't do, because he almost never does anything on screen, and we have no idea of his interiority I also would have preferred more Guilliman/Lion/etc. rescue fleet, and more aftermath, hopefully we get that scouring series after all, but it seems like now would have been the time to announce it, so maybe we won't. I increasingly can't shake the feeling that the series would have been better off as like five or six books, or whatever the original plan was. Ten to twenty thousand marines per legion, with almost no replacements, instead of two hundred thousand and they're churning out new ones by the barrelful. Overall, I guess I'm feeling like, despite some very good moments, the series overall was kind of a failure, as a project. (Not financially, obviously) I expect to be in the minority here, I don't like Abnett's work by and large, and I'm glad people are enjoying it! You deserve to after....17? years? That's just my initial reaction. von Metternich fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 10:19
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Kylaer posted:The dramatis personae is too long as is. I don't need to know the names of fifty different inconsequential Sons of Horus. I don't care if Tybalt Malabreux is the Grand Disemboweler of 4th Company Catulan Reavers, it just doesn't matter. And even with the dramatis personae I can't keep all the Dark Angels straight Dramatis Personae work best if they're in a glossary at the end of the book, imho. Then you can go take a look if you want to know who the gently caress someone is. DPs at the beginning of a book I always skip past and then just use them like a reverse-glossary someone put in the wrong place.
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Jan 28, 2024 12:26
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von Metternich posted:I finished it. The whole drat thing. And my reaction was...was all that necessary? There will always be different opinions about a piece of art. I'm sure there are also a non-zero amount of people who will argue all the novels were unnecessary. the emperor fights horus horus dies the emperor is crippled For a wargame, that is all that is needed, and the rest is just artists going apeshit. But that's how humans roll, and that's a good thing!
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Jan 28, 2024 12:38
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