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I am genuinely kinda upset that it seems that Takaba might actually be straight up dead
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Feb 1, 2024 20:48
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Conspiratiorist posted:Great little chapter. Just like how Kenjaku was dismissive of him during his brief exchange with Gojo during the Shinjuku Incident, Sukuna doesn't seem to consider Yota an opponent the way Gojo and Higuruma were, despite clearly being a jujutsu powerhouse. As we’ve seen from his inner monologue, Yuta has way too much self doubt to truly be a threat. Meanwhile Gojo and Higuruma are absolute psychos and are perfect cursed energy users.
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Feb 1, 2024 21:06
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Gologle posted:I am genuinely kinda upset that it seems that Takaba might actually be straight up dead Ui Ui hasn't come to collect him yet, so maybe there's a bit of hope?
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Feb 1, 2024 21:55
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Gologle posted:I am genuinely kinda upset that it seems that Takaba might actually be straight up dead lol if true
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Feb 1, 2024 22:11
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Takaba: He's just pretending, why would he be dead unless he simply fulfilled his life dream and ascended to a higher plane of existence. Reminder the previous chapter we saw him in that getup he was peeking at kenjaku with 1 eye open.
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Feb 1, 2024 22:14
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It's called committing to the bit.
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Feb 1, 2024 22:18
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CharlestonJew posted:As we’ve seen from his inner monologue, Yuta has way too much self doubt to truly be a threat. Meanwhile Gojo and Higuruma are absolute psychos and are perfect cursed energy users. And Yuji makes him go "this brat has so much spunk I'm loving mad." Looking back on Sukuna's self-reflection from the previous chapter, I'm appreciating Yuji's role in the story more, and I think better understanding why Gege went so kill-happy at Shibuya, and really on the lead up to it too. I've seen a little too many "indomitable" type protagonists in shounen that are either wholly psychopathic or saintly good, and if it's anything in-between the author needs to be careful with the trauma lever else either their attitude becomes comically nonsensical, or we go through a 90s batman arc until the power of friendship snaps them out of it. Meanwhile, Yuji strikes me as a good kid in an entirely believable way, who had friends and was happy living his normal life, and then Gege starts dealing him gut punch after gut punch right where it hurts him the most (other people), gradually ramping up until he finally collapses, and then again when he tries getting back up and so on, until the result is... a more determined Yuji. Not a bundle of convenient traumas (though he's certainly got a lot of grief he's been allowed little time to process), but the same kid now more focused and prepared to make snap decisions on what's important to him, and still following on his grandpa's last words not because they were his last words, but because they made perfect sense to him. It's a great, at times subtle, character development progression, seeing him go from being fearful of mortal danger, to hesitating killing humans, to breaking down when his friends get killed, to immediately confronting Sukuna in Megumi's body and even telling Maki they must go for the kill here and now, or having Higuruma (who he recruited for the fight) die and their Executioner's Sword plan fail yet barely miss a beat when Sukuna goes for his neck next. That's real spunk he's got there. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 00:01
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Yuta could get a mid-fight character development that lets him overcome his self-doubt like Takaba. But I doubt he's going to get it.
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Feb 2, 2024 01:16
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My bet's on Yuta making a binding vow that costs him Rika.
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Feb 2, 2024 01:37
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Didn't he already get that mid fight development with him admitting he just wanted to kill kenny and then fully committing to his domain expansion?
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Feb 2, 2024 02:10
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Man I would not look down on Yuta in terms of him being too normal compared to the likes of Gojo. When the chips were down against Kenny that kid got mean as hell. If Sukuna thinks he's not as bad as Gojo I think he's a goddang dingdong. Just gotta press the right buttons, and Sukuna is pretty good at doing exactly that.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:18
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Yuta's only weakness is his youth. Somehow the strongest curse ended up in the hands of a brilliant, fearless, and nice person. I guess humanity got lucky with that one.
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Feb 2, 2024 02:22
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I think Yuta will get the self-actualization moment, unless Gege hard commits to JJK being a tragedy and he ends up representing the greatest possible case of "incredibly gifted but lacking the right attitude to hit Gojo/Sukuna tier". I reread everything after the airport this afternoon and all of the hype around Kashimo only for him to get a 2 chapter speedrun is still hilarious and kind of irritating. At the same time, he kinda got a few cool feats because he was totally overpowering wounded Meguna and that's pretty decent regardless of context. There are so many panels with little snippets of information that will probably be nothing but seem like they could/should amount to something. Kusakabe reflecting on how hosed they'd all be if Sukuna used the fire weapon that exorcised Jogo, then concluding that they'd best just assume he can't because he hasn't is definitely a tactic. Likewise, the panels with the bodies being teleported away, I'm really curious where that's going to lead us because Shoko's power has been implied to be unique but also pretty pointedly handwaved up until this point. Regarding the chapter: if that is just Kenjaku's exit from the story and he is for real dead, then that is such a ballsy move by Gege in terms of shonen dynamics, but I like it. The ambush actually working is a refreshing change of pace. Even if the story never elaborates upon Yuji's backstory and the insinuations that his entire existence might have been a part of the plan, that would almost make it more interesting than any rushed handwaving we might get if Gege remembers all that stuff should probably be resolved before the credits roll. I also like Yuta's characterization being so clearly opposed to characters like Gojo, Sukuna and Kashimo. Objectively, the whole Kenjaku situation working out was in every way a huge win for them, but he's immediately thinking about how he didn't do enough or how it could have gone more optimally. His domain expansion looks pretty broken. If the tcbscans translation is correct and he's just waiting for Sukuna to drop his hollow wicker basket and get Angel'd, that could be pretty bonkers. I predict we'll get a sliver of hope for the next chapter or two where it seems like they're on the verge of a breakthrough after some minor setback, then Sukuna uses his own domain again and everything goes to poo poo. It does feel like Yuta also has the issue where the narrative demands he fails, but probably while succeeding to separate Megumi and Sukuna or something similar. Tosk fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 02:29
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I love how much Sukuna is such a hater towards Yuji
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Feb 2, 2024 03:42
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Tosk posted:I think Yuta will get the self-actualization moment, unless Gege hard commits to JJK being a tragedy and he ends up representing the greatest possible case of "incredibly gifted but lacking the right attitude to hit Gojo/Sukuna tier". It appears that, each Technique is only one use as the Sword goes away after he uses it.
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Feb 2, 2024 04:01
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 It's ok, you can do it pal  vs  "I'm here to grind or be ground" Char fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 07:50
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Honestly This feels like the plan they should have gone with at the start? Keeping Sukuna pinned down and forced to hold back so Yuji has a chance of punching him out of Megumi seems like the end goal to begin with, though now that I'm typing this I'm realizing that they would still have needed Gojo to deal with Mahoraga anyway
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Feb 2, 2024 09:32
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Not sure how they could have done that while Sukuna still had access to his own domain.
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Feb 2, 2024 11:23
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They had to stall for yuta to bush camp anyways
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Feb 2, 2024 15:07
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I've been thinking about how chanting was introduced to JJK. Did Gege just make that poo poo up wholesale, near the end of the manga, for no reason? I need to re-read the manga but I'm trying to think back and I just cannot remember chanting ever mattering, until Sukuna started doing it completely randomly. And it just made me start thinking like, wtf is this and where did it come from
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Feb 2, 2024 15:37
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Blockhouse posted:Honestly This feels like the plan they should have gone with at the start? Keeping Sukuna pinned down and forced to hold back so Yuji has a chance of punching him out of Megumi seems like the end goal to begin with, though now that I'm typing this I'm realizing that they would still have needed Gojo to deal with Mahoraga anyway As far as plan B's go. Provided Viz has the same translation, Yuta let his personal feelings get in the way of being there to support Higuruma and the others. He really wanted to kill Kenjaku and the whole cursed spirit rampage is more of an excuse. In a different configuration they keep Hakari here to pin down Urame. Once Higuruma achieves his executioner's blade Yuta swoops in to use UBW forcing Sukuna to fight handicapped against Yuji, Higuruma, and himself. Increasing the odds that any one of them could achieve their victory condition pretty drastically since the executioner's sword can also be passed between them if Higuruma is alive. They have a teleporter in Ui Ui and Mei Mei is monitoring the fight so she can help them match the timing of dropping in the Yuta tactical nuke.
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Feb 2, 2024 15:55
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Off the top of my head, chanting was introduced as a concept when barriers were introduced but felt like a barrier-only thing. Later on, it was explained when the fight between Gojo and Sukuna started and all techniques were retconned as techniques that needed chanting and gestures but had that phase eliminated for efficiency's sake.
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Feb 2, 2024 15:59
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lWithout knowing what Maki has been up to, it’s hard to evaluate any alternate plans. Maybe she could’ve also murked Kenjaku and stopped the spirits, who knows.
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Feb 2, 2024 16:00
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Taima posted:I've been thinking about how chanting was introduced to JJK. Incantations have been there as early as the Cursed Womb arc when Ijichi lowered a barrier around the detention center and sporadically used throughout (ie Megumi to summon Makora), but their significance if they had any before wasn't described until Gojo's opening Purple for the Sukuna fight.
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Feb 2, 2024 16:10
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Interesting, thanks guys. So I guess chanting was always a Thing, but not really defined, and certainly not defined in a combat sense, until Sukuna whipped it out during Gojo v Sukuna. I wonder why! It feels so late in the game to be tossing in new mechanics, no? Maybe Gege didn't feel like Sukuna's "perfect" body (as per Kashimo's comments) had enough benefits, so he went out of his way to make a system update/retcon where having more hands/mouths is an objective buff (via hand signs and chanting, respectively). e: It's not the only ill-defined and somewhat confusing added technique. I think one of the big examples here is the Maximum abilities. But that one is a bit easier to understand imo; Maximum techniques are super cool if your characters have a more traditional shonen arc, as the ultimate expression of something that's been building for a long time. The obvious problem being that Shibuya largely marked the end of progression / characterization in that sense, which is why the two Maximum techniques that I can remember seeing- Maximum Meteor and Maximum Uzumaki- were performed by characters with the most characterization, Jogo and Geto, respectively. It would fall flat otherwise because a Maximum technique only matters in the context of past development that there is no narrative interest in establishing. I'm trying to think of other similarly confusing mechanics. Turning into a vengeful spirit is another one, and you could argue that binding vows between sorcerers are similarly ambiguous because no one has ever once been punished for breaking one. Even in the case that would make sense for that to happen- Sukuna's vow with Yuji- it was Rules Lawyer'ed away. I hope we see a binding vow get broken before the manga is over. Maybe that will be one of the things that allows the good guys to win, who knows. Taima fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 16:25
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I got the impression, a lot like in Naruto, that once you are sufficiently skilled, the performative pieces of techniques are not always required but are often mentioned as a context for how badass this dude is for not needing them really. I felt like it was brought up that he would have an advantage as such from the past, but modern sorcerers have gotten around some of that. It didn't seem so much like a late mechanics change or retcon so much as Gege didn't focus on it, but wanted to use it to show how cool those 2 were.
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Feb 2, 2024 16:34
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Conspiratiorist posted:And Yuji makes him go "this brat has so much spunk I'm loving mad." No joke, Sukuna's self-reflection about Itadori has ginormous parallels to Archer/Shiro's final fight in the Unlimited Blade Works route of Fate Stay/Night. The fact that Junichi Suwabe voices both Archer and Sukuna means that the irony is not lost on me, either. For example, both Archer and Sukuna reflect on the fact that Shiro/Itadori have long since gone beyond their limits because what they're fighting for is something far greater than themselves - their ideals. Both realize that they need to destroy their opponent's ideals and completely obliterate them in order to actually defeat them - otherwise no matter how many times they cast Shirou/Itadori down, Shirou/Itadori will get up again. The fact that Archer and Shirou are one and the same person (just from different points in history) and the distinct possibility that Itadori is a descendant of (and perhaps even a recreation/refinement of Sukuna himself) means that the parallels keep stacking. Either way, I'm not complaining. I absolutely love Fate, but I also love that there is at least one key difference: Shirou's ideology is 'borrowed', but Itadori's is all his own. His grandpa may have given him some last words, but those words weren't the ideology itself - just one of many guides that helped Itadori eventually come to his own conclusion about what's important.
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Feb 2, 2024 16:50
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Taima posted:Interesting, thanks guys. So I guess chanting was always a Thing, but not really defined, and certainly not defined in a combat sense, until Sukuna whipped it out during Gojo v Sukuna. Gojo did it first  Rather than a new mechanic coming out of the left field, I think it fits neatly: "Two-faced" Sukuna possesses a grotesque biology with not only 4 eyes and arms, but also 2 mouths, and with hand gestures and chants being attributed magical properties in the Japanese mysticism JJK borrows from (the former already heavily featured in a combat context since the beginning), it follows and it's just kinda cool that as a sorcerer Sukuna can abuse his extra bits to buff himself while throwing down. It'd have made sense even if the narrator hadn't explained at the onset of the fight how chanting is something all sorcerers can do but skip when possible out of practicality. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 17:14
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I wonder how many of the narrator interjections were editor mandated. I can see gege just not giving a poo poo about explaining stuff because it’s cool and his editors stepping in and saying “absolutely not”.
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Feb 2, 2024 17:36
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haven't hand gestures been a thing since the start even if not explicitly stated? when did yuji last use black flash or whatever it was called lol
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Feb 2, 2024 17:37
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Jose posted:haven't hand gestures been a thing since the start even if not explicitly stated? when did yuji last use black flash or whatever it was called lol Hands in general being important for a lot of techniques has always been around. When we were leaning into creating Curtains to seal off areas everyone used the same hand signal along with the chant.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:05
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The chant is shouting the name of your ultimate move out loud to increase its power
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Feb 2, 2024 18:09
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JahRoo posted:The chant is shouting the name of your ultimate move out loud to increase its power I really do like the idea of binding vows and the concept that explaining your power enhances its effectiveness in JJK. Yes you reveal something that might let your opponent overcome it, but you've also made it much harder to do so by exposing yourself. That balance between secrecy and outright power display is fun and good. As though being a magician that explains the tricks makes the magic realer not faker, cool subversion to me.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:22
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I really do like the idea of binding vows and the concept that explaining your power enhances its effectiveness in JJK. Yes you reveal something that might let your opponent overcome it, but you've also made it much harder to do so by exposing yourself. That balance between secrecy and outright power display is fun and good.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:54
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No Wave posted:It's not really innovative, HxH nen had the same restrictions (other series I'm forgetting as well) and its kind of mandatory to stop the meta from devolving into secret surprise attacks. It wouldnt be fun for a major character to die by surprise to an attack they conceptually don't understand the mechanics of. That's fair, but I like the implementation and maybe it's been used before but I wouldn't call it a general shounen trope that has been overdone. I like how Gege implemented it in the conversation of how he presents details and context to his action, given he often just chooses to ignore or not explain a lot. It's been a consistent mechanic from the jump in a series where a lot seems inconsistent and by the seat of his pants.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:57
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Not being japanese, I wouldn’t be surprised if hand gestures/chants are considered such basic aesthetic elements of japanese mysticism that gege didn’t feel the need to explain them to an audience that probably already was used to the idea, like how if you’re telling a story about cowboys in America you don’t ever feel the need to explain why everyone is wearing hats and has guns.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:18
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The hand gestures for every domain expansion are pulled straight from the Mudra which are buddhist hand signs/body gestures so for sure there are things that don't need to be explained to the native culture.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:34
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Waiting for Sukuna to simply grow another set of arms and extra mouths with which to chant.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:36
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yeah the shift was not "oh there are chants and hand signs?" it's the part where like black flash they provide a video game style buff
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Feb 2, 2024 21:15
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Valentin posted:yeah the shift was not "oh there are chants and hand signs?" it's the part where like black flash they provide a video game style buff Eh, it's not a video game-style buff. Any martial artist can tell you what it's like to be "in the zone", aka that heightened state of focus and awareness that anticipates the Black Flash and how once you're in it you can pull off poo poo you never even thought possible. JJK has a not-insignificant amount of martial arts in it (quite a few characters even specialize in it!) and so that's also a concept that needs very little explanation to a domestic audience. They might toss around terms like multipliers which makes you think "buff!", but since cursed energy's never really been quantified as a number it's really just based on comparing what the individual's cursed energy felt like before and after they achieved Black Flash. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 21:21
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