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1glitch0 posted:I've heard this before and I don't NOT believe it because I've worked in the media long enough, but the idea that one of the major reasons the story didn't get reported is that the NYT's "didn't understand wrestling" is gobsmackingly pathetic. I think it's more that the women weren't confident in the NYT reporters' ability to adequately report on the story than their deciding not to pursue the story because they didn't understand wrestling.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:25
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And I get the fear from the women cause if the reporter didn't get the power a booker/promoter has or treat wrestling seriously there is a chance the allegations won't stick.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:33
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TheKingslayer posted:Even better, give him the same harness he gave Owen.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:56
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Long-Time Lurker posted:I think it's more that the women weren't confident in the NYT reporters' ability to adequately report on the story than their deciding not to pursue the story because they didn't understand wrestling. "uh isn't all this fuckin fake?"
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Feb 11, 2024 18:16
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Whoolighams posted:"uh isn't all this fuckin fake?" Wrestling fans can't grasp how the boys sided with Patterson, Phillips and Garvin due to the protect the business mantra and even made fun of their victims openly and on the air. I don't expect non-fans to easily understand how scripting humiliating segments and trying to bury talent on screen is different than actors having to do degrading stuff in a movie or TV show. Let alone the deeper, darker poo poo that goes on and is seen as normal.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:28
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I think there's a decent amount of "not really understanding how wrestling works" in the general public that I can see negatively effecting the ability to report on something involving power dynamics, consent, kayfabe, etc. Admitting that we (or at least I) have no idea who was coming to the NYT or what stories they had to tell, I assume most reporters/human beings would be able to look at the Janel Grant or Rita Chatterton or the most severe parts of the Ashley Massaro stories and realize those are objectively terrible, criminal actions. I don't know how much of the stuff being brought to mainstream sources was on that level, and even then I understand that a lot of people outside of wrestling have a bias along the lines of "well they're a trash business based on lying to people, I'm going to be very suspicious and dismissive of their outlandish stories" that is not at all justifiable or right but exists, and likely played a role here too. But taking it outside of the realm of cut and dry Sex Crimes, a lot of reasonably self-aware and intelligent people don't "get" wrestling, especially the Vince McMahon brand of wrestling that had an effective monopoly for decades. I have friends and family members who will ask me about things that sort of break out into the greater pop culture landscape, and the amount of questions I've been asked over the years along the lines of: "If people are booing John Cena so much, why is he the top star? Or at least shouldn't he be a bad guy?" "If [CM Punk/Daniel Bryan/Rey Mysterio/etc/] is so popular, wouldn't a company want to take advantage of that and use them as much as possible, it doesn't make any sense to punish people for being popular." "If [person] was so uncomfortable saying that controversial thing, why didn't they just refuse to do it?" "Everything in wrestling is fake/scripted, so is that person's relative really dead? REALLY? Well, they got the okay to mention it, right?" "Those people aren't really married, right? Why would they do a fake break-up angle then?" "If this person wasn't a star athlete and trained in some tiny little place other than WWE, can they really be THAT good? Shouldn't an ex-NFL guy who got trained by the #1 company in the world be better?" Extend this to some of the poo poo people are bringing up (like every weird gross Mr. McMahon skit going back decades, or forbidding Massaro from training with na indie) and even if the reporters were not outright saying they were making things up and I could see how being peppered with questions like these would make the women leery of coming forward on top of the general concerns of being targeted as a woman speaking out. It's not really like someone whistleblowing at NASA, because of the theater/blurring reality aspect of it. Maybe closer to having reporters who are not familiar with high level finance/corporate governance looking at [insert big finance scandal here] and going "well I mean, why wouldn't he be able to sell his stock before a big recall happened? And what's a Sore Bane Oxley?" and the corporate whistleblower slowly backing away. Not trying to excuse the NYT reporter or anyone else, but one could argue Vince McMahon flourished (and chose some of his specific venues of abuse) specifically because it was hard to actually explain outside of the Wrestling Bubble, or maybe on a greater level a Performance Bubble? Look at how many stand-up comedians have been outed as predators and creeps, that's one of the few other fields where a fictional/"not really me" version of a person exists alongside a "real" person with the exact same name. And even then there were a lot of echoes of the Vince McMahon stuff of "oh well yeah he said/did some stuff As His Character, but surely that has nothing to do with the real person in real life!" Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 18:31
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Hell one of the reasons the steroid stuff didn't stick in the 90's is the public really didn't care like it ended up doing for Baseball cause it was wrestling...It being fake means it really shouldn't matter that people are taking steroids.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:54
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“Didn’t understand wrestling” could mean a lot of things to a sexual assault victim considering taking the biggest risk of their life to go against a vindictive politically connected billionaire Do they have any skeletons in their closet? Did they portray the relationship as consensual at any point because they felt compelled to? Did they keep working there because there was literally nowhere else to make a living in the business at the time? Were other people involved (Dunn, HHH, Laurinaitis) who you would need some context into understand their role/power in the company? Hell, imagine explaining what’s hosed up about that coffee segment to someone who has never heard of “work” or “shoot” or “the Mr. McMahon character.” Then, because it’s the Times, know everything you said is going to get fact checked and responded to by a white shoe law firm and PR apparatus with basically infinite resources, and that response will be taken seriously and given equal weight in the piece for fairness. Unless you know you have the killshot why take the risk? I have a hard time thinking of a tougher decision to make than going forward
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Feb 11, 2024 19:28
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Maybe NYT saw how poorly Nancy Grace reported on the Benoit case (a bunch of factual errors that could have easily been caught with a better factchecker) and decided against it? Or, more likely, Vince has a lot of contacts and influence in the NY area and used that to squash it
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Feb 11, 2024 19:42
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Maybe NYT saw how poorly Nancy Grace reported on the Benoit case (a bunch of factual errors that could have easily been caught with a better factchecker) and decided against it? No, the women involved decided to go on the record. It was not killed on the NY Times side. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 19:46
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I mean think about outside forces…Massaros lawsuit came about while Linda Mcmcmahon was in the Trump administration and he loved to bury that poo poo.
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Feb 11, 2024 21:46
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it's pretty clear they would have to be concerned that the old journalistic bias to treat wrestling as an unserious joke would make the already questionable journalistic treatment of women vs. powerful men even worse something extra hosed up about that when Vince is the person most responsible for wrestling being such a joke to outsiders in the first place, which then loops around into making women he targeted having a harder time being taken seriously
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Feb 11, 2024 22:08
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MassRafTer posted:Wrestling fans can't grasp how the boys sided with Patterson, Phillips and Garvin due to the protect the business mantra and even made fun of their victims openly and on the air. I don't expect non-fans to easily understand how scripting humiliating segments and trying to bury talent on screen is different than actors having to do degrading stuff in a movie or TV show. Let alone the deeper, darker poo poo that goes on and is seen as normal. I absolutely think there is a major barrier in outsiders understanding all the levels and nuances in how hosed up wrestling can be. it being a joke and nowhere near movies or TV gives abusers this level of protection from being a sideshow no one takes seriously in mainstream journalism
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Feb 11, 2024 23:00
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Long-Time Lurker posted:I think it's more that the women weren't confident in the NYT reporters' ability to adequately report on the story than their deciding not to pursue the story because they didn't understand wrestling. It's probably also worth noting that, when I wrote this in December 2017... https://twitter.com/deadspin/status/941652497822900225 ...Jerry McDevitt sent me (just me to start with, not editor Tim Marchman or general counsel Lynn Oberlander, presumably to scare me by going directly to me first) a really WEIRD legal threat. His main concerns were not knowing what slut shaming was while being angry that I framed his firm/colleagues as engaging in it and that I classified the Sable lawsuit as a sexual harassment lawsuit (the specific tort was not a cause of action in the suit, but sexual harassment was the gist of what she alleged and how contemporaneous media accounts described it). But he also went on a rant in there — I forget if it was in the original email or in response to one of Lynn's replies — derisively accusing me of "trying to become a 'MeToo' reporter" that always felt very weird. davidbix fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 00:05
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jerry mcdipshit
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Feb 12, 2024 00:54
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Man, those between the sheets episodes on titangate are a serious commitment and a fascinating journey. Good job Mr Bix
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Feb 12, 2024 05:28
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Ivypls posted:jerry mcdipshit dave meltzer made the observation recently that he's used to getting background checks sent to him of every woman who makes public accusations against vince but he didn't get one for Ms. Grant since jerry is retired now
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Feb 12, 2024 05:46
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Sir Tonk posted:Man, those between the sheets episodes on titangate are a serious commitment and a fascinating journey. Good job Mr Bix
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Feb 12, 2024 07:25
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Go join your son, Nash. Jesus loving christ. And its these sorts of people who wonder why it takes women ages to come forward when they are up against this kind of poo poo behind closed doors (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 12, 2024 08:15
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I just ignore Nash because the dude's brain was syrup even before his son died. And a lot of stuff he's been saying sounds like he's working it out realtime. Thankfully they took down the tacky NDA For Life shirt.
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Feb 12, 2024 16:29
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Didn't know about his son, only 26 with a cardiac arrest from alcohol withdrawal, right after Scott Hall. That's loving brutal.
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Feb 13, 2024 01:59
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https://x.com/ImChelseaGreen/status/1757253034965336380?s=20
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Feb 13, 2024 13:10
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Does she still work for them? Did something happen to her?
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Feb 13, 2024 13:54
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Shard posted:Does she still work for them? Did something happen to her? She still works for them, she's just co-opting a hashtag people are using to signal boost Janel Grant and Ashley Massaro.
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Feb 13, 2024 13:56
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Pylons posted:She still works for them, she's just co-opting a hashtag people are using to signal boost Janel Grant and Ashley Massaro. WTF
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Feb 13, 2024 13:57
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Pylons posted:She still works for them, she's just co-opting a hashtag people are using to signal boost Janel Grant and Ashley Massaro.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:13
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Wrestling will never disappoint when it comes to “Can I cash in on this here tragedy?”
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Feb 13, 2024 14:24
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Pylons posted:She still works for them, she's just co-opting a hashtag people are using to signal boost Janel Grant and Ashley Massaro. That's loving disgusting, quite frankly
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Feb 13, 2024 14:26
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You can't even give her any charitable read because when you're that close to the situation there's zero way to misread or not understand the impact of the #JusticeForJanelGrant hashtag. Nearsighted and flippant at best, horrendous at worst.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:30
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She's been using that hashtag since September last year. Probably just oblivious self promotion.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:47
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keithy george posted:She's been using that hashtag since September last year. Probably just oblivious self promotion. It's still a massive failure to read the room. If you're a woman in wrestling and WWE in particular and still do that, I don't even know.
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Feb 13, 2024 15:14
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That's a rough hashtag to appropriate at any time for some silly character poo poo, much less now
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Feb 13, 2024 15:40
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Back when Vince was raided last year I assumed it was due to being monster buddies with Trump. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that Vince McMahon can drag Trump into this. I believe it was around the same general time Trump was raided about the classified documents at Mar A Lago. Trump carrying water for the Saudis. Those two evil fuckers are intertwined in a significant way. One person who seems to be hugging the ground and dodging bullets is Paul Heyman. I could be wrong, but wasn't he Lesnar's real life manager and handler? And he didn't know Brock was crossing international lines to rape a girl? Bullshit.
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Feb 13, 2024 17:50
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Crossing state or national lines to engage in sexual assault carries no extra penalties. However if you forcefully move someone over state lines(and in some case county lines) that becomes kidnapping on top of sexual assault. Joey Diaz(dirty standup comedian) did that and went to jail for quite a while.
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Feb 13, 2024 17:54
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I didn't know that . Heyman still knows where many bodies are hidden, imo.
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Feb 13, 2024 17:58
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Interstate transportation for the purposes of criminal sexual acts, including prostitution is under the Mann Act. Basically turns what are usually prosecuted as state charges into something the feds can pursue. See the first couple sections of https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-117.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:30
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you know Vince is a record-setting scumbag if he gets the feds to Mann Act a white guy
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Feb 13, 2024 22:38
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A white billionaire? No loving way.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:47
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davidbix posted:Thank you! We're really proud of those shows. Sorry, I hate to be THAT loving GUY, but holy poo poo I had no idea you were a goon. I love your writing.
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Feb 13, 2024 23:41
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Technowrite posted:Sorry, I hate to be THAT loving GUY, but holy poo poo I had no idea you were a goon. I love your writing.
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Feb 14, 2024 01:51
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