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Flikken posted:It is funny how conservatives started caring about her private jet usage when they got mad at her. I admit I don't know enough to crunch the numbers but I wonder if something like banning all private jet usage would have a considerable impact on the climate? It seems like it would really only have an effect on a (relatively) small subset of the population. I would hope most of the support (pilots, mechanics, etc) could move on to other work. I know it would make life more complicated for people like T-Swift but honestly I don't care. We are getting past that point where changes need to be made, if not past it already. This seems like more bang for your buck and possibly easy to implement since rich people can just use normal modes of transportation. (there would have to be laws to stop them from buying up all the seats on the plane, basically making it private. If such laws don't already exist.) I do think upper levels of government probably warrant usage of private planes like Air Force One. Everyone under like VP or SecDef can get on the (air)bus with the rest of us.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:13
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Subjunctive posted:it adds up, but my understanding is that even when you add up all the individually-divertable waste and pollution, it’s a small fraction of the amount of waste and pollution generated by industry. given the absence of climate-friendly competitors in many areas, it’s hard to “consume better” to influence that upstream damage as well I work in a grocery store. It is ostensibly “environmentally friendly,” and we attempt to recycle everything we can, but holy poo poo we throw a lot away. We could do better, but nobody wants to pay for the additional labor because it doesn’t make Number Go Up
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Feb 18, 2024 19:14
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the dangerous thing about climate change is that it's a slow roll; things only get worse gradually and in a tolerable manner...that is, until they're not tolerable anymore, and by that point it's too late to make panic changes. nothing will fundamentally change until the way of life "enjoyed" in the western world is no longer possible for the middle class. It'll be long after the poor are hosed beyond comprehension.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:21
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My Spirit Otter posted:just because the individual isnt responsible for the bulk of the damage, doesnt mean that the individual cant meter themselves so as to not contribute to the problem. Oh I still separate my recycling and squint at invisible numbers on the bottom of bottles because our landfill will recycle #3 but not #7 or whatever the gently caress. I absolutely still feel like a mark when I see the rich and corporations pissing liquid trash into the ocean and rubbing our faces in it, and landfills selling plastic to be burned which seems worse than just dumping it into a pit where at least it won’t turn into the literal air we breathe.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:23
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Reminder that one of the largest (potentially! Because they don't keep track) polluters in the world is the DoD.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:23
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Tiny Timbs posted:Oh I still separate my recycling and squint at invisible numbers on the bottom of bottles because our landfill will recycle #3 but not #7 or whatever the gently caress but I absolutely feel like a mark when I see the rich and corporations pissing liquid trash into the ocean and rubbing our faces in it. as you should, because we are. theres only one way to stop it, but those in power really dont like it, and it will only work for 1 generation before it devolves into the same thing we have now
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Feb 18, 2024 19:25
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after talking with my Boomer Dad about The World, he's reassured me that humans are amazingly resilient and inherently good and that we'll tackle these issues and things will be ok in the future, especially now that Biden has tackled climate change  wow, I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of someone who will die soon and not deal with the real problems!
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Feb 18, 2024 19:34
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Wrong Theory posted:I admit I don't know enough to crunch the numbers but I wonder if something like banning all private jet usage would have a considerable impact on the climate? It seems like it would really only have an effect on a (relatively) small subset of the population. I would hope most of the support (pilots, mechanics, etc) could move on to other work. It would probably be the most significant change you could implement on a personal rather than industrial scale. The dude that tracks celebrity jet usage combined with some reporters and they found something like flight emissions just moving a bunch of rich weirdos was about 400 times more than a random fucko like me or you would produce in a year. That's just celebrities mind you, not c-suite of random corporation y taking the corporate jet between california and new york or whatever.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:35
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Mustang posted:Americans are never going to care enough about recycling or any other methods of making our society more sustainable. I don't think this is entirely accurate. There are huge swaths of the population that are absolutely preoccupied by individual carbon footprints and recycling. What we need is to find a way that we can transform that goodwill into lasting benefits for the climate. Whether that is by purchasing land to be preserved, funding substantial clean-up efforts, etc. As it is people expend a lot of time and effort towards remediation methods that aren't effective but have been designated as the way that an individual can "do their part". maffew buildings posted:after talking with my Boomer Dad about The World, he's reassured me that humans are amazingly resilient and inherently good and that we'll tackle these issues and things will be ok in the future, especially now that Biden has tackled climate change Sounds like he's trying to comfort you? What exactly do you want to hear him say? GL in the thunderdome? bulletsponge13 posted:Reminder that one of the largest (potentially! Because they don't keep track) polluters in the world is the DoD. Yeah, all military action is incredibly wasteful and has an absolutely massive environmental impact. It's also bad for the economy generally. I don't understand where the myth of "good for the economy" came from. It's a hugely inefficient allocation of resources with no real hope of actual return. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 18, 2024 |
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Feb 18, 2024 19:46
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Banning private jets could affect one single person and I’d still want to see it done before seeing a single iota more of greenwashing bullshit
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Feb 18, 2024 19:46
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Tiny Timbs posted:Banning private jets could affect one single person and I’d still want to see it done before seeing a single iota more of greenwashing bullshit not sure how it's feasible tho, this would never happen in north america because our politicans are all bought and paid for by the people who own the jets.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:49
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and you'd have to be real careful with the wording because bush pilots are definitely a thing that exist and need to exist in canada and alaska
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Feb 18, 2024 19:50
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My Spirit Otter posted:and you'd have to be real careful with the wording because bush pilots are definitely a thing that exist and need to exist in canada and alaska bush pilots do not use jet aircraft
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Feb 18, 2024 19:54
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Kesper North posted:bush pilots do not use jet aircraft bush pilots can use turboprop aircraft, which are 'technically' a jet.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:57
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Grip it and rip it posted:I don't think this is entirely accurate. There are huge swaths of the population that are absolutely preoccupied by individual carbon footprints and recycling. What we need is to find a way that we can transform that goodwill into lasting benefits for the climate. Whether that is by purchasing land to be preserved, funding substantial clean-up efforts, etc. As it is people expend a lot of time and effort towards remediation methods that aren't effective but have been designated as the way that an individual can "do their part". Its good for the economy of lobbyists to congressmen to MIC contracts cycle
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Feb 18, 2024 20:13
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I couldn't help but laugh when I was setting up our current Waste Management service and asked the rep about recycling and they straight up said to not worry about it since it all goes in the same hole anyway. The recycling bin is an extra 96 gallons of garbage to them.
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Feb 18, 2024 20:25
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Kesper North posted:bush pilots do not use jet aircraft what horus said, plus i was more meaning the terminology in the bill. i have a feeling the lobbyists would move to use the term "private aircraft", as it would encompass a whole lot more than private rich people aircraft, and really hurt the theoretical bill's chance to pass.
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Feb 18, 2024 20:25
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Wrong Theory posted:I admit I don't know enough to crunch the numbers but I wonder if something like banning all private jet usage would have a considerable impact on the climate? It seems like it would really only have an effect on a (relatively) small subset of the population. I would hope most of the support (pilots, mechanics, etc) could move on to other work. Global air travel is only responsible for something like 3-4% of total emissions, and private jets are a teeny fraction of that. Road vehicles account for something like 12%, and that's before you get into the secondary emissions from building and fueling them. Certainly those considerations also apply to air travel, but not on the scale of road transportation. And at least Boeing is dedicated to reducing their bolt usage in their jets. psydude fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 18, 2024 |
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Feb 18, 2024 20:25
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Mustang posted:Americans are never going to care enough about recycling or any other methods of making our society more sustainable. food inflation is a heck of an example to pick since it has contributed to the downfall of governments across the world throughout history, including: https://mises.org/library/inflation-and-fall-roman-empire ancient rome https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-hyperinflation-heralded-the-fall-of-german-democracy-180982204/ weimar germany https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/resource/food-inflation-and-regime-stability-in-africa/ various governments in africa nothing especially amercian about caring about food prices, at all
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Feb 18, 2024 20:34
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Cartons of eggs quintupled in price in the last few years and it had nothing to do with conservation Nor are Americans wrong for being pissed when that happens
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Feb 18, 2024 20:40
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psydude posted:Global air travel is only responsible for something like 3-4% of total emissions, and private jets are a teeny fraction of that. Road vehicles account for something like 12%, and that's before you get into the secondary emissions from building and fueling them. Certainly those considerations also apply to air travel, but not on the scale of road transportation. And at least Boeing is dedicated to reducing their bolt usage in their jets.  That last part tho. Of course if those numbers are even remotely right (not second guessing you) then what are we doing about the remaining ~80%? Carbon credits? Because Mother Nature cares about those.Sometimes I feel like we (society I guess) are going about this all wrong. Or at least need to take a multifaceted approach. It is unrealistic to think that we can get everyone into an electric car enough to make a sizeable difference. And then it feels like we just changing one vice for another. I see the, admittedly chud, memes that lithium mines are worse than oil. How much of that is true I can't say. There is certainly going to be a sizeable difference in amount of mines vs drilling going on so that would have to be factored in. Maybe someone could invent a sponge like material that could absorb carbon and could be installed around the tailpipe of everyone's car. It could be subsidized by the government of course. Then once your sponge is full you trade it in for a new one. We could use the sponges full of carbon to make no. 2 pencils or diamonds or something. Maybe we could make more servers for Helldivers 2 godammit. Idea man out!
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Feb 18, 2024 20:54
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Wrong Theory posted:Maybe someone could invent a sponge like material that could absorb carbon and could be installed around the tailpipe of everyone's car. It could be subsidized by the government of course. Then once your sponge is full you trade it in for a new one. We could use the sponges full of carbon to make no. 2 pencils or diamonds or something. Maybe we could make more servers for Helldivers 2 godammit. Idea man out! Top Gear actually tried that with the stuff they use to scrub CO2 on submarines, and it does actually work. The catch is that a canister about the size of a shoebox can absorb a couple miles' worth of emissions, so you would need to haul around a trailer full of them.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:03
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Top Gear actually tried that with the stuff they use to scrub CO2 on submarines, and it does actually work. The catch is that a canister about the size of a shoebox can absorb a couple miles' worth of emissions, so you would need to haul around a trailer full of them. SCRs and stuff. Much better to ensure better combustion of fuel and prevent xOx emissions for CO2. MA-Horus posted:the dangerous thing about climate change is that it's a slow roll; things only get worse gradually and in a tolerable manner...that is, until they're not tolerable anymore, and by that point it's too late to make panic changes. Its a system trap. Tragedy of the commons and whatever. The feedback loop is also so long as to be irrelevant and we are terrible at reacting to something like that.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:37
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Also, the super-rich are beyond the effects of climate change. Miami Beach no longer there? Invest in new beachfront property somewhere else. No more snowfall in Whistler? Go to Hokkaido or whatever. They're always insulated. And as long as they're insulated, nothing significant will change. It sounds terribly doomer but it's just reality.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:48
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I'm probably going to sound like I'm writing my manifesto on a typewriter under a bare lightbulb in a filthy basement, but only when the rich are unable to get everything they want will it be acknowledged that there's a real problem. And then you'll still have the issue of them working not to solve or prevent the problem, but rather to ensure they remain on top during the collapse.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:58
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The Eyes Have It posted:I'm probably going to sound like I'm writing my manifesto on a typewriter under a bare lightbulb in a filthy basement, but only when the rich are unable to get everything they want will it be acknowledged that there's a real problem. this
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Feb 18, 2024 22:07
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Tiny Timbs posted:Bad time to share the “Taylor Swift gassing up the private jet to roll over in bed” meme huh None of those memes mention the second jet. https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status/1756336583433707820
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Feb 18, 2024 22:24
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Good news on the neurotoxic planes front: there’s finally action on getting the lead out.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:27
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For someone in her position where flying commercial would be nigh-impossible (and potentially unsafe now) I get it Business jackoffs? Fly first class you dicks. Nobody cares.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:30
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psydude posted:Global air travel is only responsible for something like 3-4% of total emissions, and private jets are a teeny fraction of that. Road vehicles account for something like 12%, and that's before you get into the secondary emissions from building and fueling them. Certainly those considerations also apply to air travel, but not on the scale of road transportation. And at least Boeing is dedicated to reducing their bolt usage in their jets. The emission [unit] per passenger mile is horrible for private planes any way you look at it. The "simple" answer is a serious carbon tax that forces economic activity to less carbon intensive options, but there is approximately zero political will for that. Swift has good reasons to fly private, but she should be paying for the environmental damage that's causing. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 18, 2024 |
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Feb 18, 2024 22:31
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:The emission [unit] per passenger mile is horrible for private planes any way you look at it. The "simple" answer is a serious carbon tax that forces economic activity to less carbon intensive options, but there is approximately zero political will for that. Yeah, that was my thinking, just tax the everloving poo poo out of it so that the cost accurately reflects the otherwise ignored externalities.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:37
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The Eyes Have It posted:I'm probably going to sound like I'm writing my manifesto on a typewriter under a bare lightbulb in a filthy basement, but only when the rich are unable to get everything they want will it be acknowledged that there's a real problem. Literally the plot of Elysium. Guess we need Matt Damon to show up at the .01%'s houses and force them at the pain of cybernetically-enhanced death to give up their private planes.
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Feb 18, 2024 23:32
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Platystemon posted:Good news on the neurotoxic planes front: there’s finally action on getting the lead out. Question- is this a 100% replacement for the higher-lead gasolines, because I know aircraft engines are built to farrrr more specific operating tolerances than car engines. Like, same burn rate, effect at altitude, all that?
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Feb 19, 2024 00:01
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GD_American posted:Question- is this a 100% replacement for the higher-lead gasolines, because I know aircraft engines are built to farrrr more specific operating tolerances than car engines. Like, same burn rate, effect at altitude, all that? Who cares? Hobbies shouldn't take precedence over public health and environmental harm. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 00:04
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It’s supposed to be a drop-in replacement, running in anything that takes 100LL, mixed in any ratio.
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Feb 19, 2024 00:11
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Platystemon posted:None of those memes mention the second jet. 
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Feb 19, 2024 00:30
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The private jet knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t.
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Feb 19, 2024 00:42
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Quackles posted:The private jet knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t. The private jet as well as the rest of us know where it is because it has a transponder with a publicly facing interface, but billionaires put pressure or even buy companies to suppress that because they fear transparency.
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Feb 19, 2024 00:47
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Grip it and rip it posted:Yeah, all military action is incredibly wasteful and has an absolutely massive environmental impact. It's also bad for the economy generally. I don't understand where the myth of "good for the economy" came from. It's a hugely inefficient allocation of resources with no real hope of actual return. We got escorted from Guam to Bremerton by a destroyer, so we got to see the fuel reqs over radio traffic, and holy gently caress do we burn insane amounts of fuel toodling around the ocean to go piss the Chinese off.
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Feb 19, 2024 00:53
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Lol destroyers in particular those things can drink
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Feb 19, 2024 00:58
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