WWE/Vince McMahon Sex Trafficking Allegations (CW: Sexual Assault, etc.)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > WWE/Vince McMahon Sex Trafficking Allegations (CW: Sexual Assault, etc.)

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davidbix: Jun 14, 2016; Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!

Pillowpants posted:

Where can I read your reporting?

I wrote an extensively reported feature on the ring boys scandal for Business Insider in 2020: https://www.businessinsider.com/linda-mcmahon-once-employed-an-accused-child-molester-2020-10?r=mcmahon-teaser

If you get the pay wall or otherwise have issues with it, the Business Insider India version has never had a pay wall for some reason and should work fine: https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...ow/78938854.cms

A year later, I had a shockingly difficult time getting anyone to bite on a pitch about getting proof that the FBI (and, because they also had a copy, WWE) disregarding a tape that, by their own admission, showed Mel Phillips molesting a ring boy, so I published it myself on Substack: https://babyfacevheel.substack.com/p/wwe-ring-boys-fbi-mel-phillips-videotape

My MEL Magazine feature about the INS trying deport Pat Patterson for being gay in the 1960s can be read at this link: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/pat-patterson-government-witch-hunt

If you want to count Jimmy Snuka killing Nancy Argentino as part of Titangate because that's when it first received public scrutiny, then you can read my extensively reported feature about that at MEL as well: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/jimmy-snuka-girlfriend-nancy-argentino-death

For Titangate more broadly, it's less original reporting, but we unlocked the shows we did on the Between The Sheets Patreon about Titangate and made them free for everyone (they're also available for free in our regular feed now): https://www.patreon.com/collection/345983?view=expanded

# ? Feb 23, 2024 21:43

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:00

Craptacular!: Jul 9, 2001; Fuck the DH

davidbix posted:

Literally nobody was talking about clumsy anonymous public restroom hookups. We weren't even talking about a witness telling the INS in the mid-1960s that Patterson was regularly patronizing street hustlers who were "young boys," which I don't think can be taken at face value for a number of different reasons. We're talking about specific allegations about Patterson from the late 1970s through his 1992 WWF resignation, almost all of which involved him being in a position of power over his accusers.

Thank you for all the information that definitely moves it from 'probably' to 'well yeah', but for the majority of that it kind of its into what I'm saying was that from the fifties to the end of Reaganism, being gay in large parts of the country was illegal, and in the context of that era you either lived in a big city with a queer scene or you lived essentially in the darkness and frequently did things that were Not Good, and would still be illegal today but also back then your entire existence was illegal. Gay men from that generation often had a reputation/stereotype for unwanted advances and attempted assaults, in large part due to coming of age in a time where you had to break rules because the rules were written so that you died lonely and alone. A good number of men were from that men are/were molesters, but the system at the time was producing molesters. That said, you don't need an act of a legislature to tell you to not be sexually involved with children; that's just some good old human consciousness where what's right and wrong is evident and law only provides specifics.

Like I said, it's a double standard, and I was just explaining why I personally process it that way and I understand it sucks and some people aren't going to like it. I just think if one is coming into a thread like this and excusing sexual assault, and I'm not going to disavow my thought exercise could be charged as such, then you need to be really loving clear about the reasons. I certainly don't think Patterson is any angel but a lot of that is not inconsistent with gay men of that era. It's not my generation, but I grew up in a neighborhood around old generation gays (I later realized who they were because my parents gave me non-specific warnings about being alone with them) that I'm well aware of how decades of being designated as mentally deranged outlaws for their sexuality affected their behavior. That groomer ring announcer can burn, though.

I'm grateful to not be a part of that era. The mid to late 90s were already scary enough.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Feb 23, 2024

# ? Feb 23, 2024 22:50

The337th: Mar 30, 2011

A gay man in a powerful position, who wields that power against other men the same ways as straight men in power were targeting women, doesn't deserve this much leeway no matter the time and place

That's a man who's a powerful abuser first and foremost, and his sexuality comes a distant second from that

He had way more in common with Vince McMahon than he did any normal gay man just living their lives at the time

# ? Feb 23, 2024 23:44

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

Jim Barnett used a college sports program as his own private molesto buffet. Patterson wasn�t even an outlier for behavior. Carnies are by default awful people, sometimes capable of self reflection and growth.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:30

Sydney Bottocks: Oct 15, 2004

Craptacular! posted:

Thank you for all the information that definitely moves it from 'probably' to 'well yeah', but for the majority of that it kind of its into what I'm saying was that from the fifties to the end of Reaganism, being gay in large parts of the country was illegal, and in the context of that era you either lived in a big city with a queer scene or you lived essentially in the darkness and frequently did things that were Not Good, and would still be illegal today but also back then your entire existence was illegal. Gay men from that generation often had a reputation/stereotype for unwanted advances and attempted assaults, in large part due to coming of age in a time where you had to break rules because the rules were written so that you died lonely and alone. A good number of men were from that men are/were molesters, but the system at the time was producing molesters. That said, you don't need an act of a legislature to tell you to not be sexually involved with children; that's just some good old human consciousness where what's right and wrong is evident and law only provides specifics.

Like I said, it's a double standard, and I was just explaining why I personally process it that way and I understand it sucks and some people aren't going to like it. I just think if one is coming into a thread like this and excusing sexual assault, and I'm not going to disavow my thought exercise could be charged as such, then you need to be really loving clear about the reasons. I certainly don't think Patterson is any angel but a lot of that is not inconsistent with gay men of that era. It's not my generation, but I grew up in a neighborhood around old generation gays (I later realized who they were because my parents gave me non-specific warnings about being alone with them) that I'm well aware of how decades of being designated as mentally deranged outlaws for their sexuality affected their behavior. That groomer ring announcer can burn, though.

I'm grateful to not be a part of that era. The mid to late 90s were already scary enough.

I'm sorry, but your last two posts read like you're saying "he was a product of his times" as a way to excuse or rationalize his behavior. He was a man who used his power and influence to extort subordinates for favors in the workplace. That is just wrong, regardless of his sexual preference or the social conditions of the time he grew up in.

It's like Whoopi Goldberg constantly defending Roman Polanski for raping a teenage girl in the 1970s by saying "times were different" or "things are different where he came from" or whatever, when the underlying fact is this: it was wrong for him to do that back then, and it's still wrong for him to have done it now. The same applies to Patterson.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:33

davidbix: Jun 14, 2016; Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!

Craptacular! posted:

Thank you for all the information that definitely moves it from 'probably' to 'well yeah', but for the majority of that it kind of its into what I'm saying was that from the fifties to the end of Reaganism, being gay in large parts of the country was illegal, and in the context of that era you either lived in a big city with a queer scene or you lived essentially in the darkness and frequently did things that were Not Good, and would still be illegal today but also back then your entire existence was illegal. Gay men from that generation often had a reputation/stereotype for unwanted advances and attempted assaults, in large part due to coming of age in a time where you had to break rules because the rules were written so that you died lonely and alone. A good number of men were from that men are/were molesters, but the system at the time was producing molesters. That said, you don't need an act of a legislature to tell you to not be sexually involved with children; that's just some good old human consciousness where what's right and wrong is evident and law only provides specifics.

Like I said, it's a double standard, and I was just explaining why I personally process it that way and I understand it sucks and some people aren't going to like it. I just think if one is coming into a thread like this and excusing sexual assault, and I'm not going to disavow my thought exercise could be charged as such, then you need to be really loving clear about the reasons. I certainly don't think Patterson is any angel but a lot of that is not inconsistent with gay men of that era. It's not my generation, but I grew up in a neighborhood around old generation gays (I later realized who they were because my parents gave me non-specific warnings about being alone with them) that I'm well aware of how decades of being designated as mentally deranged outlaws for their sexuality affected their behavior.

I'm grateful to not be a part of that era. The mid to late 90s were already scary enough.

I get your point about the perils of being driven underground, especially since Patterson was literally persecuted by the U.S. government for being gay, although I think I'd go nearly as far with it as you did. But you also need to recognize that "this is all just homophobia" was one of Vince McMahon's chief defenses back in 1992. When by and large it wasn't.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:37

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

davidbix posted:

I wrote an extensively reported feature on the ring boys scandal for Business Insider in 2020: https://www.businessinsider.com/linda-mcmahon-once-employed-an-accused-child-molester-2020-10?r=mcmahon-teaser

If you get the pay wall or otherwise have issues with it, the Business Insider India version has never had a pay wall for some reason and should work fine: https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...ow/78938854.cms

A year later, I had a shockingly difficult time getting anyone to bite on a pitch about getting proof that the FBI (and, because they also had a copy, WWE) disregarding a tape that, by their own admission, showed Mel Phillips molesting a ring boy, so I published it myself on Substack: https://babyfacevheel.substack.com/p/wwe-ring-boys-fbi-mel-phillips-videotape

My MEL Magazine feature about the INS trying deport Pat Patterson for being gay in the 1960s can be read at this link: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/pat-patterson-government-witch-hunt

If you want to count Jimmy Snuka killing Nancy Argentino as part of Titangate because that's when it first received public scrutiny, then you can read my extensively reported feature about that at MEL as well: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/jimmy-snuka-girlfriend-nancy-argentino-death

For Titangate more broadly, it's less original reporting, but we unlocked the shows we did on the Between The Sheets Patreon about Titangate and made them free for everyone (they're also available for free in our regular feed now): https://www.patreon.com/collection/345983?view=expanded

You rock Bix, thanks for this content!

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:38

davidbix: Jun 14, 2016; Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!

Sydney Bottocks posted:

I'm sorry, but your last two posts read like you're saying "he was a product of his times" as a way to excuse or rationalize his behavior. He was a man who used his power and influence to extort subordinates for favors in the workplace. That is just wrong, regardless of his sexual preference or the social conditions of the time he grew up in.

It's like Whoopi Goldberg constantly defending Roman Polanski for raping a teenage girl in the 1970s by saying "times were different" or "things are different where he came from" or whatever, when the underlying fact is this: it was wrong for him to do that back then, and it's still wrong for him to have done it now. The same applies to Patterson.

This is not a defense of Whoopi, as her comments are a bunch of different flavors of awful regardless, but it's something that I feel is important to note whenever her comments about Polanski come up: On top of everything else, she was just flat-out wrong about the facts of the case. She thought it was "just" a statutory rape case (hence the infamous "it wasn't 'RAPE'-rape" line) when, in actuality, it was explicitly a forcible rape case as well.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:42

Sydney Bottocks: Oct 15, 2004

davidbix posted:

This is not a defense of Whoopi, as her comments are a bunch of different flavors of awful regardless, but it's something that I feel is important to note whenever her comments about Polanski come up: On top of everything else, she was just flat-out wrong about the facts of the case. She thought it was "just" a statutory rape case (hence the infamous "it wasn't 'RAPE'-rape" line) when, in actuality, it was explicitly a forcible rape case as well.

Not to prolong this derail, but it frankly astounds me that so much of Hollywood can't line up fast enough to kiss Polanski's rear end, when (as you say) he quite literally forcibly raped a teenage girl.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:44

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Sydney Bottocks posted:

Not to prolong this derail, but it frankly astounds me that so much of Hollywood can't line up fast enough to kiss Polanski's rear end, when (as you say) he quite literally forcibly raped a teenage girl.

He got a lot of sympathy handwaving he absolutely didn't deserve because of the whole Manson family murders and all. He should be in prison, the only reason he isn't is because his wife was murdered (and he fled to France after accepting a bs plea deal)

But this doesn't have anything to do with the sex pest at hand so I'll leave it at that

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Feb 24, 2024

# ? Feb 24, 2024 00:57

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

HonorableTB posted:

He got a lot of sympathy handwaving he absolutely didn't deserve because of the whole Manson family murders and all. He should be in prison, the only reason he isn't is because his wife was murdered (and he fled to France after accepting a bs plea deal)

But this doesn't have anything to do with the sex pest at hand so I'll leave it at that

Tom O'Neil's Chaos paints Polanski as a really nasty guy and basically says Polanski treated Shannon Tate not that differently than the way McMahon treated Janel Grant.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 03:14

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

post hole digger posted:

Tom O'Neil's Chaos paints Polanski as a really nasty guy and basically says Polanski treated Shannon Tate not that differently than the way McMahon treated Janel Grant.

I'm not shocked by this. Roman Polanski is a thoroughly disgusting person through and through and it pisses me off that he gets away with it because he's protected by equally disgusting people in power, like former Culture Minister Mitterand of France, who gave a statement in support of Polanski in 2009. Mitterand admitted in his autobiography to engaging in sex tourism to Thailand where he paid for sex with boys who were almost certainly underage.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 04:03

Hedgehog Pie: May 19, 2012; Total fuckin' silence.

In the public eye, I feel like the Polanski case is kind of similar to Patterson in that a lot of people might be willing to let their crimes go due to them being at least fairly good at their jobs. Repulsion is a great film, as is Chinatown, and even going as far forward as The Pianist. Great works of art can affect you personally, and it's hard to let them go even if you know their creators might be awful people. I'm not being so blas� as to wheel out the "separate the art from the artist" argument without any irony or introspection, but it's difficult and I don't really know how to properly confront it. You can always look for new things to enjoy, certainly, but who's to say those hypothetical new creators won't be terrible people also? Online publishing, Youtube and indie wrestling have all had more than their fair share of scandals. And that's before you even consider that most people aren't creating and have never created things as special as Repulsion, or 45 Mercy Street, or Fitzcarraldo, or the Black Triptychs, the list of difficult great art is practically endless. I have some amount of sympathy for wrestling people who struggle to condemn Patterson and the like on the back of all this, albeit not that much.

Of course, wrestling is a trashy entertainment that's benefitted from being closed off from any sort of respectability or scrutiny for decades. And I would argue that even if Bitches Brew is a great album, you kind of still have to acknowledge that Miles Davis was a horrible person. Whether you can still enjoy the works in question probably comes down to you and any privilege you might hold, but yeah, wrestling probably shouldn't be a major priority in any case.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 04:21

davidbix: Jun 14, 2016; Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!

Yeah, it also needs to be stressed that even though Vince was much closer friends with Patterson than he was with Terry Garvin or Mel Phillips, Patterson probably doesn't get brought back if he was nearly as unimportant as they were. The quality of the week to week booking on WWF TV fell off a cliff while Patterson was gone, and there are plenty of people in the business who think that Vince never would have been nearly as successful without Pat's giant wrestling brain propping him up. Phillips was a mediocre ring announcer who was incredibly replaceable on the ring crew. Garvin, though he had decades of wrestling experience including helping out in the office in Kansas City and Amarillo, was basically just interchangeable middle management.

# ? Feb 24, 2024 05:21

Duke Pukem: Oct 23, 2010; Three cheers for dark beer!

HonorableTB posted:

He got a lot of sympathy handwaving he absolutely didn't deserve because of the whole Manson family murders and all. He should be in prison, the only reason he isn't is because his wife was murdered (and he fled to France after accepting a bs plea deal)

But this doesn't have anything to do with the sex pest at hand so I'll leave it at that

His plea was to be probation plus time served. Thats it. For drugging and raping a 13 year old. The judge was going to ignore it and sentence him to 50 years and I dont blame the judge at all

# ? Feb 24, 2024 06:03

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Duke Pukem posted:

His plea was to be probation plus time served. Thats it. For drugging and raping a 13 year old. The judge was going to ignore it and sentence him to 50 years and I dont blame the judge at all

Just pure insanity. I want off this world

# ? Feb 24, 2024 06:44

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi608b0BH3w

# ? Feb 24, 2024 20:56

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Craptacular! posted:

Thank you for all the information that definitely moves it from 'probably' to 'well yeah', but for the majority of that it kind of its into what I'm saying was that from the fifties to the end of Reaganism, being gay in large parts of the country was illegal, and in the context of that era you either lived in a big city with a queer scene or you lived essentially in the darkness and frequently did things that were Not Good, and would still be illegal today but also back then your entire existence was illegal. Gay men from that generation often had a reputation/stereotype for unwanted advances and attempted assaults, in large part due to coming of age in a time where you had to break rules because the rules were written so that you died lonely and alone. A good number of men were from that men are/were molesters, but the system at the time was producing molesters. That said, you don't need an act of a legislature to tell you to not be sexually involved with children; that's just some good old human consciousness where what's right and wrong is evident and law only provides specifics.

Like I said, it's a double standard, and I was just explaining why I personally process it that way and I understand it sucks and some people aren't going to like it. I just think if one is coming into a thread like this and excusing sexual assault, and I'm not going to disavow my thought exercise could be charged as such, then you need to be really loving clear about the reasons. I certainly don't think Patterson is any angel but a lot of that is not inconsistent with gay men of that era. It's not my generation, but I grew up in a neighborhood around old generation gays (I later realized who they were because my parents gave me non-specific warnings about being alone with them) that I'm well aware of how decades of being designated as mentally deranged outlaws for their sexuality affected their behavior. That groomer ring announcer can burn, though.

I'm grateful to not be a part of that era. The mid to late 90s were already scary enough.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

i dont think most gay men in the 70s-90s were rapists op

# ? Feb 24, 2024 21:17

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Dave Meltzer is declaring he does not believe all of the accusations against Vince.

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1761596091227926969?s=21&t=SaqpS1xrgMxCHjY_Is7JiA

# ? Feb 25, 2024 18:14

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

MassRafTer posted:

Dave Meltzer is declaring he does not believe all of the accusations against Vince.

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1761596091227926969?s=21&t=SaqpS1xrgMxCHjY_Is7JiA

Oh Dave, don't do this..

# ? Feb 25, 2024 18:55

KungFu Grip: Jun 18, 2008

dave thinks matt riddle is a stand up guy and a wrestling prodigy that no one gets so this isnt a surprise. never have hopes that anyone has a respectful stance on a topic thats this sensitive or similar or you will be let down

# ? Feb 25, 2024 18:59

Shard: Jul 30, 2005

I want to know what Vince has done for Dave to give him the benefit of the doubt

# ? Feb 25, 2024 19:10

Sydney Bottocks: Oct 15, 2004

KungFu Grip posted:

never have hopes [...] you will be let down

# ? Feb 25, 2024 19:11

TheKingslayer: Sep 3, 2008

Fighting with twitter eggs all day and night will torch your wavering old brain meat.

# ? Feb 25, 2024 19:29

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~

Dave's known more about the inner workings of WWE for forty years than any other journo and has chosen to never a big fuss about it

# ? Feb 25, 2024 19:29

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

Dave wanted to cite one of Elgin�s puppet tumblr sites as proof Elgin didn�t do no misdeeds.

# ? Feb 25, 2024 20:06

ChrisBTY: Mar 29, 2012; this glorious monument

I guess Dave knows who fills his dinner bowl.

# ? Feb 26, 2024 11:16

CopywrightMMXI: Jun 1, 2011; One time a guy stole some downhill skis out of my jeep and I was so mad I punched a mailbox. I'm against crime, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

https://x.com/iamjohnpollock/status/1762131761427882073?s=61&t=XvrQwNe2ohQa_fKBAbwFNg

https://www.postwrestling.com/2024/02/26/nick-kiniski-speaks-out-on-proposition-by-wwf-official/

Nick Kiniski ( son of Gene kiniski) is also reporting harassment and unwanted advances from Terry Garvin in the 80s. He took it right to Vince, who did nothing and stopped booking Nick altogether.

# ? Feb 26, 2024 16:16

davidbix: Jun 14, 2016; Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!

CopywrightMMXI posted:

https://x.com/iamjohnpollock/status/1762131761427882073?s=61&t=XvrQwNe2ohQa_fKBAbwFNg

https://www.postwrestling.com/2024/02/26/nick-kiniski-speaks-out-on-proposition-by-wwf-official/

Nick Kiniski ( son of Gene kiniski) is also reporting harassment and unwanted advances from Terry Garvin in the 80s. He took it right to Vince, who did nothing and stopped booking Nick altogether.

Also:
https://twitter.com/gregmep/status/1762195109901140290

# ? Feb 26, 2024 21:14

TheKingslayer: Sep 3, 2008

It's gonna be loving crazy when they eventually try to put Vince in their HoF.

# ? Feb 26, 2024 22:18

Shard: Jul 30, 2005

TheKingslayer posted:

It's gonna be loving crazy when they eventually try to put Vince in their HoF.

All I know is John Cena will happily induct him

# ? Feb 26, 2024 22:22

SirPhoebos: Dec 10, 2007; WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Who the gently caress cares about what a front for sex trafficking says should be memorialized.

# ? Feb 26, 2024 22:29

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Nick Dinsmore has a podcast where he related a story that Mark Carrano followed Nick's future wife into the women's bathroom and basically barricaded himself in the bathroom as he tried to force himself on her, but couldn't because she stayed on the other side of the bathroom as he tried to hold the door closed. Says it was reported to HR and nothing happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6GUXNluWfM&t=22s

I do not recommend watching the Nick Dinsmore podcast, but that was a relevant story at least.

Edit: Also says a trainee of his was put in an uncomfortable situation by Johnny Ace and all he is willing to relate is the words used were "grooming words."

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 27, 2024

# ? Feb 27, 2024 00:15

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

SirPhoebos posted:

Who the gently caress cares about what a front for sex trafficking says should be memorialized.

arena owners should.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 01:53

Suplex Liberace: Jan 18, 2012

MassRafTer posted:

Nick Dinsmore has a podcast where he related a story that Mark Carrano followed Nick's future wife into the women's bathroom and basically barricaded himself in the bathroom as he tried to force himself on her, but couldn't because she stayed on the other side of the bathroom as he tried to hold the door closed. Says it was reported to HR and nothing happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6GUXNluWfM&t=22s

I do not recommend watching the Nick Dinsmore podcast, but that was a relevant story at least.

Edit: Also says a trainee of his was put in an uncomfortable situation by Johnny Ace and all he is willing to relate is the words used were "grooming words."

if the guy with the 90mile high forehead is getting into it everyone was

# ? Feb 27, 2024 02:14

Edge & Christian: May 20, 2001; Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

Suplex Liberace posted:

if the guy with the 90mile high forehead is getting into it everyone was

You're thinking of George Barrios who (to my knowledge) has no specific allegations against him. Mark Carrano is the guy second from the right on the YouTube thumbnail.

Barrios was co-President of WWE alongside Michelle Wilson from 2008 to 2020 and I don't think traveled/was backstage very much at all. Which is not to say that he didn't see/do some poo poo in Connecticut. Carrano was around even longer (identified in a 2005 WON as "a close ally of John Laurinaitis" who had been recently promoted), and by 2012-2013 (the first time Laurinatitis got demoted for harassing a woman and resulting in a payoff/NDA) he became head of talent relations and an on-air "talent relations executive" on Total Divas. His name came up a lot in CM Punk's lawsuit-causing podcast, and mostly got mentioned in the same way that any head of talent relations gets complained about (everyone who got released during his tenure was sure it was him, not Vince or HHH who disliked him). Though he was in the news briefly after being accused of telling Paige and Alberto del Rio they had to stop dating, and later Miro implied that Carrano was trying to get him off of Total Divas for unclear reasons.

He finally got fired a few years ago, whether as a scapegoat or not, as being the guy who sent Mickie James (and several other women) trash bags full of their gear and belongings after they got released. WWE then replaced him with Laurinaitis again.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 02:50

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

I've mentioned aspects of the Performance Center abuse scandal before but I think it is worth posting the entire reddit post by divajanedoe a verified female developmental talent.

quote:

First, please understand that it is of the utmost importance that I maintain my anonymity, and hopefully by the end of this you will understand why. I have told some of my story to a reporter, but it seems that unfortunately they were yet another outlet who has been told not to touch this story. Please bear with me as I've never used reddit before.

To be honest, I�m not really sure where to start. In developmental, Bill scared us so much that it made us ashamed and scared to speak up about anything. The abusive environment was so hard to operate within, but that fear is very hard to leave behind. The few people who have come forward have alluded to some of what I want to talk about, but understand that this is a harder story to tell.

The former divas who have spoken out against the instances of sexual harassment have been punished, up to and including being fired in a demonstration of the power Bill has. When our only female advocate in talent relations tried to speak up, she was removed from the position and sent to work in the office. Now that the conversation has been restarted, it�s been made known that she is no longer with the company. At any level, women who speak up for themselves are disposable. When rumors about their departures make it out, they�re immediately buried and become yesterday�s news, but believe me - it�s true.

One such instance that has been mentioned by Judas Devlin (Austin Matelson) is the complaint of harassment against Matt Wichlinkski, the current Strength and Conditioning coach. I have attached screencaps of one such photo that he posted alongside his WWE contract. When he was caught filming/taking photos of talent�s backsides, it was brought to their attention. Some of the male talent attempted to stick up for the developmental divas and help catch him in the act (again, the fear instilled into us made it very hard to say anything), but when it was presented to Bill it was made very clear that he was not going anywhere, and any further complaints would result in dismissal because there a million girls ready to step in and take our place. In all instances of complaining about sexual harassment (including those outside of this incident), women have been forced out of the company. After one of the talents� dismissal, when we couldn�t figure out where she went, we were told �if you go over my head, ask HER how well that works.�

This isn�t to specifically go after Wichlinski, but rather to make sure that people understand that Bill DeMott is a problem, and everything else trickles down from there. It�s been made very clear, from the removal Rob McIntyre and to the firing of at least two divas (I won�t name names as theirs is their own story to tell, but if you�ve paid attention to rumors it�s very easy to put two and two together) to numerous male talents, some of whom will not come forward, that if you use your voice against Bill you will be removed. The day after Rob told all of us in a group setting that if we had any concerns about Bill we should call the office, he was fired.

The fact is that anyone who has spoken out, including myself, are only exposing what is the tip of the iceberg. Bill has been guilty of gay-shaming, physical, mental, and racial abuse for far too long, and something needs to come to light. The stories coming out are heartbreaking, but what�s worse is that we all knew about them. Bill would openly mock Judas during training sessions for writing and going above his head, and would encourage other �chosen� talent to do so as well. His patterns of abuse are well established, and I can only hope that more can come forward so people see that this isn�t just a vendetta from �bitter� wrestlers. Bill DeMott is a monster, and we need to start asking why he�s being protected when the evidence has been piling up against him for so long.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to my story. Again, I can only hope this inspires more people to come forward. Hopefully I can provide more information in the future.

The female advocate was believed to be Jane Geddes who at one point was a SVP in the company but got demoted and was out of the company weeks before the scandal broke. But I've never seen any wrestling reporter actually report on that.

# ? Feb 27, 2024 05:53

Long-Time Lurker: May 20, 2021; readin'-but-not-postin'-jones

It's high-key frustrating to read more and more stories about WWE being gross when a significant amount of wrestling fans just don't care about any of it. Even when they aren't Fedpilled, they seem to think you are the weirdo for caring too much about WWE being a rape/abuse factory instead of just letting people "enjoy things."

# ? Feb 27, 2024 06:36

STING 64: Oct 20, 2006

MassRafTer posted:

I've mentioned aspects of the Performance Center abuse scandal before but I think it is worth posting the entire reddit post by divajanedoe a verified female developmental talent.

The female advocate was believed to be Jane Geddes who at one point was a SVP in the company but got demoted and was out of the company weeks before the scandal broke. But I've never seen any wrestling reporter actually report on that.

didn't austin's initial letter mention her along with another released woman as the point person they were trying to deal with before she got sent back to stamford?

# ? Feb 27, 2024 06:44

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:00

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

STONE COLD 64 posted:

didn't austin's initial letter mention her along with another released woman as the point person they were trying to deal with before she got sent back to stamford?

She is one of the people it was addressed to.

quote:

Memo To: Canyon Ceman, Dorothy Brill, Jane Geddes
Memo FromAustin Matelson
Subject: Coach Demott

I am composing this memo today because I have had a number of serious concerns about the actions and words of head coach Bill Demott during my employment as talent for WWE developmental. Many of these actions I have tried to ignore or hope that they would cease but because they have now put me in a dangerous situation not only for my career but for my personal health and safety I feel the need to speak out to someone of a higher authority. In this memo I will provide details on a series of incidents which underlie my concerns.

I would like to request that this remain in strict confidence as I am afraid that if Coach Demott were to know I spoke out he would find ways to punish me for it. In fact the entire process of writing a letter to human resources has been called a �faggots� way of dealing with problems by Coach Demott.

Physical Injury Due to Imprudent Coaching: The action that has led me to finally speak out happened Thursday February, 28th following our house show. I had taken an awkward hit to my knee in a match and was being examined by Brian Duncan. This hit aggravated a previous injury, one that should never have happened, that I had sustained during a practice drill orchestrated by Coach Demott after practice had already been completed. An MRI revealed a partial tear of my PCL and a strain on a ligament in the back of my knee. I have been told that I can work through it but it may aggravate here and there. This injury can be enduring as many of the superstars on the main roster wrestle their whole careers with it.

I should never have had any issues with this knee but on that particular practice day, after a 3 hour morning session had �ended� at 11 AM, Demott put 280lbs Gary Jackson back in the ring at 11:30 and forced 8 of us to give him 10 takedowns each. After Gary had bumped 60 times in a matter of minutes, I entered the ring and was asked to give him 10 fireman takedowns. On the first one he collapsed from exhaustion while on my back, driving my knees into the mat where I sustained this injury.

The hit I took aggravated it and Coach Demott pulled trainer Brian Duncan and I into the training room and said without any knowledge of my actual injury, �This injury can�t keep flaring up. It doesn�t look good perception wise to us (the office) or for your career going forward.� This injury was treated after the match and I was cleared by Duncan at the time.

Based on Coach Demott�s statement I feel that I am in a position where I have to cover up any injuries I may have otherwise I will be punished or fired. The following week I was in severe discomfort but fearing repercussions I attempted to work through it. Coach Demott has not only instilled this fear in me but I have spoken to several other members of the roster who have been made to feel by Coach Demott that their current injuries are signs of weakness as men, and could potentially lead Coach Demott to advocate for their firing.

On two separate occasions Coach Demott forced me to perform dangerous moves without properly warming up. One incident followed my first evaluation where Canyon Ceman asked me to start working on my parkour and gymnastics moves. It was 7:30 am before practice and he saw me standing in the ring with Enzo Amore and said, �Do a takedown let go of him and do a back flip then go back to him.� The idea made no sense, I was not properly warmed up, and I nearly landed on my head on one attempt. Thesecond incident was before a live event he wanted Oliver Gray to test out his finisher on someone so he grabbed me and forced me to take a high bump on my neck without warming up. I had missed a week of practice because of a neck strain prior to this and Coach Demott was well aware of that.

I have also watched and participated in drills that were hazardous to our safety. He has made us do squats on the top rope including some students who had never been up that high in their careers. He made the beginners group perform monkey flips without a crash pad and the first six who participated landed on their heads and necks and were lucky not to have been seriously injured. The aforementioned drill in which Gary Jackson injured my knee also saw Memo Montenegro injury his neck and shoulder. He was on his 40th bump in 5 minutes and got dizzy before his 7th consecutive hip toss and landed on his head.

Unprofessional Work Environment: The issue of physical well-being is not my only concern. I am an educated individual who worked at Cal State Northridge with Professors and students. I know how one is suppose to conduct one's self in a professional sense. I also understand that this is a unique business and the lines on proper behavior may be a bit blurred. Yet there is no question that Coach Demott, on a daily basis,not only makes unprofessional choices in words and actions, choices that go against many policies of this company, but choices that have created a culture of fear and negativity in this system. Showing up each day for training is mentally agonizing because of the comments we are all forced to hear. He routinely makes fun of anyone sitting out because of injury and also makes rude comments about people�s names and personal lives and has established a hostile work environment through verbal assaults. To wit:
� Demott constantly refers to Oliver Gray as Joel Pedophile which personally enrages me because I used to help a Psychology Professor in Los Angeles do lectures for sexually abused children. � When Dante Dash referred to his finishing move as the Davey boy, as it was utilized by the late Davey Smith who died tragically, Coach Demott makes the following comment, �The Davey Boy? What turning blue and dropping dead on the lawn?� � Coach Demott told student Enzo Amore that he hopes he dies. � Demott also told our entire morning class and Ricky Steamboat's class to kill themselves just days after we tolled the ring bell 10 times for the late Mike Graham a former star FCW wrestler, who committed suicide. � Coach Demott routinely bullies Enzo verbally as well as physically. I have seen Enzo on several occasions be slapped in the face by Bill. During one practice he decided to show Enzo how doing a slam wrong could hurt someone, so he picked Enzo up and dropped him without warning directly on his head and neck. He then decided that each time a student slammed his 100lbs heavy bag with bad form that student had to slam one of his peers the same way. Demott found this drill amusing yet each student was put at serious injury risk. � Demott has grabbed an injured David Harwood by his neck pulled him to the office door and verbally chastised him for standing by the ring during practice when he wasn't cleared, even though he was simply listening to a lecture by Ricky Steamboat. � Demott has kicked Memo Montenegro in the groin and laughed as he crumbled into a heap. Memo being a Mexican immigrant to the United States has a heavy accent, which Coach Demott constantly criticizes and makes fun of. � He routinely will attempt to bust students lip on the bottom rope when they stand to close to the ring. On several occasions he has punished students for mistakes in practice by making them bend forward putting their face near the ropes so that Coach Demott can bounce the rope off the bridge of their nose. � He routinely calls Gary Jackson a fat tub of goo, tells Osmund Cherry who is of African descent, to go back to Africa and most recently has made derogatory remarks about sexual preferences to Brandon Traven. � Coach Demott insinuated that Traven is gay and used the derogatory term "half a sissy" to make fun of him simply because he sat out practice and has had several injuries in the last couple months. This is not the first time he targeted Brandon either. In December I witnessed Coach Demott question Traven about a head injury in the trainer�s room. After Traven explained that a blow to the head in practice had made him dizzy Demott slapped him in the head and left the room. � I witnessed a similar incident a few months ago when Alexander Russev was recovering from neck surgery. Coach Demott saw Russev wearing a NY Jets shirt at practice and not liking that sports team proceeded to physically grab Russev by the collar and rip the shirt off him. Russev was not cleared for any contact at that point and clearly showed physical pain after the incident. Following this incident a group of students were discussing how this sort of thing happened before with an injured Briley Pierce. Briley had a broken leg and Coach Demott kicked him in his medical boot. This happened before I was under contract but it nonetheless seems to fit a pattern of negligent and abusive behavior that I have observed with Coach Demott and is worth investigating further. � According to Oliver Gray, he was once told that if he sat out practice to rest a very bad low back injury that CoachDemott would pull him from the NXT tapings and from attending the Royal Rumble, even though the trainer had requested that Oliver sit out just one practice.

I have been in this system under Coach Demott for 8 months now and was recently told that I am not improving at a rate that is acceptable. I have made concerted efforts in the past to practice more often and work on the parkour moves requested by Canyon Ceman. However Bill has routinely kicked me out of the building after practice including a day when WWE superstar Alex Riley asked me to work on some parkour moves with him. This along with his constant interrupting of practices just to put people down and make negative comments has all but killed any motivation I have to spend extra time around him.

It should be stated that I am not a vindictive person. I am open-minded and do not have a problem with off-color jokes or difficult practice drills. I was signed to this company after Steve Regal told me he saw tremendous improvement in my ring work between tryouts. I told Mr. Regal that I could only imagine how good I could become working 24/7 for this company. I have always been intrinsically motivated and will practice something until I perfect it. Yet I personally feel that coach Demott creates an environment that hinders my opportunities to improve. Coach Demott restricts our practices, instead opting for dangerous and unproductive drills, while constantly verbally assaulting our appearances, personalities, sexual preferences, injuries, and character it seems impossible for me to maximize my time in the ring. In fact even as recently as training on March 4th, guest trainer Lance Storm went out of his way to demonstrate moves to me that Coach Demott had kicked me out of the building for not doing correctly. When I asked him how to do them Coach Demott said, "That was poo poo Judas, get out of the building."

Is this the type of work environment that the WWE desires? When can we set up a time to discuss this matter?

In closing I would be remiss if I did not clarify to you that this is solely a problem with Bill Demott and not a problem with the fine coaching staff that has been assembled around him. For example, Ricky Steamboat has been a terrific help to me and always provides me with positive reinforcement and quality examples to learn from. Terry Taylor has gone out of his way to pull me aside and give me helpful advice. Billy Gunn has been an amazingly refreshing force bringing knowledge and enthusiasm that has been extremely beneficial to the system. The changes that have recently occurred in the WWE have been excellent and I am excited for the future plans of WWE Developmental. It is because of these positive attributes that I am expressing my concerns to you. I want to be a part of a solution to the problems that I have listed, one that will lead to future success for the developmental system.

Thank you for your time, Austin Matelson

# ? Feb 27, 2024 06:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > WWE/Vince McMahon Sex Trafficking Allegations (CW: Sexual Assault, etc.)

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