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General Battuta posted:I always push back on this because there's this implication that saying "some people get it really bad and they want to change that" is bleakness. It's not bleak that colonialism disfigured the world. It's just true. Bleakness would be Baru being just fine with it, or completely resigned to it, or defying it and being destroyed utterly.
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Feb 28, 2024 15:22
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General Battuta posted:I always push back on this because there's this implication that saying "some people get it really bad and they want to change that" is bleakness. It's not bleak that colonialism disfigured the world. It's just true. Bleakness would be Baru being just fine with it, or completely resigned to it, or defying it and being destroyed utterly. I think that when people identify it as "bleak" they are often identifying their discomfort in reading it. Baru lays bare how little power the individual has in the face of systems of power. Even if the reader hasn't articulated that explicitly either aloud or in their head, there's the creeping sense of powerlessness. I think, also, most people in the Western world are deeply uncomfortable with the idea that they could be (or are) coopted by systems of oppression to reinforce those systems. It's a story in conflict with the idea that great men (or women) acting alone can change the fate of the world. It is presumably no accident on your part that Baru is (mostly) only successful at her goals when she is either acting as an agent for the system or when resisting in cooperation with others.
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Feb 28, 2024 15:33
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buffalo all day posted:I got the reference but that sentence can be read in an extremely unfortunate way that's on you, perv
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Feb 28, 2024 16:45
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I feel like a weirdo on this sometimes, but I usually find books/media that take the view of "yes the world is hosed up in these specific ways" to be comforting because it's at least being honest (at least, that's the best way I can think to describe it at the moment). A lot (but not all) of stuff other people tend to describe as "cozy" makes me almost nauseous sometimes because of how much it has to willingly ignore or downplay for their premises to work. (Not to knock people who like cozy stuff, I have my own forms of intellectual cotton candy and popcorn I enjoy too!)
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Feb 28, 2024 18:02
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DurianGray posted:I feel like a weirdo on this sometimes, but I usually find books/media that take the view of "yes the world is hosed up in these specific ways" to be comforting because it's at least being honest (at least, that's the best way I can think to describe it at the moment). A lot (but not all) of stuff other people tend to describe as "cozy" makes me almost nauseous sometimes because of how much it has to willingly ignore or downplay for their premises to work. Yeah this is my personal feeling too. It's like the cozy stuff is almost saying "things can only be good in an alternate universe you'll never reach." Again, though, personal feeling, not prescriptive.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:12
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For my money, the Baru books are pretty high on my bleak-o-meter not because of the state of the world, but because extraordinarily awful things happen to the protagonist, a lot, in ways that are realistically rendered to the point of horror, and her life is a sine wave of extreme competence followed by extreme helplessness and futility. Her suffering is rendered in high fidelity and it goes on a long, long time.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:14
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I appreciate the insight. Baru's been on my TBR list for a while (I even gifted it for a friend looking for good fantasy with a queer main character), but the state of the world has made a certain nihilistic fatalism common enough in fantasy, and I've just gotten tired of it. I don't need, as a podcast I listen to calls it, "Tender Frog Happy Hours", but at a certain point, if it's all I'm exposed to, I kinda fall into that thinking. I'll definitely move Baru up in priority.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:41
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Has anybody got recs for Tender Frog Happy Hours books? Frog and Toad are Friends The Wind in the Willows The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County
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Feb 28, 2024 19:52
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I feel like Adrian Tchaikovsky is due for a "Smart Amphibians Evolved Intelligence, But Weird" book at this point I guess there's no guarantee it'd be tender and/or happy though
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Feb 28, 2024 20:36
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SkeletonHero posted:Frog and Toad are Friends Bestpost
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Feb 28, 2024 21:08
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Exordia was reviewed in the NYT! Sorry, no gift link. https://bsky.app/profile/amalelmohtar.com/post/3kmhy25mwg52e Whoops, Amal El-Mohtar provided a gift link. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/books/review/new-science-fiction.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Y00.-Ku6.ruU7LFhMEi0s&smid=url-share Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 21:34
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Nice. edit: For the next book jacket: "dizzyingly unsatisfying" - New York Times
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Feb 28, 2024 21:44
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Has anybody got recs for Tender Frog Happy Hours books? Some good reccs came out of this, a few pages back: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3900237&pagenumber=896&perpage=40&userid=0#post537795688
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Feb 28, 2024 22:02
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withak posted:Nice. They are always saying this to me
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Feb 28, 2024 22:11
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General Battuta posted:They are always saying this to me Bestsellers list when??
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Feb 28, 2024 22:13
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"The publisher of “Exordia” claims it is a stand-alone novel. This is baffling. " lol
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Feb 28, 2024 22:14
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mewse posted:"The publisher of “Exordia” claims it is a stand-alone novel. This is baffling. " lol I was happy to see the link to this other interview indicating that there's more story there, depending on the publisher: https://www.grimdarkmagazine.com/an-interview-with-seth-dickinson/
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Feb 28, 2024 22:23
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mewse posted:"The publisher of “Exordia” claims it is a stand-alone novel. This is baffling. " lol
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Feb 28, 2024 22:30
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Revelation Space (Inhibitor #1) by Alistair Reynolds - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0819W19WD/ The Liberation (Alchemy Wars #3) by Ian Tregillis - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BKSLGTE/
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Feb 28, 2024 23:18
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MockingQuantum posted:I feel like Adrian Tchaikovsky is due for a "Smart Amphibians Evolved Intelligence, But Weird" book at this point I got the sense that The Doors of Eden is where he dumped all the ideas he had about smart animals that he didn't think he'd be able to develop into a full book, and the salamander was in there.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:28
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Pinterest Mom posted:I got the sense that The Doors of Eden is where he dumped all the ideas he had about smart animals that he didn't think he'd be able to develop into a full book, and the salamander was in there. I could have sworn I read that one but that sure doesn't sound familiar, I must be confusing it with something else. Is it good? I loved Children of Time and liked most of Children of Memory so I'm all for more smart animal fiction from him if it's solid (I have Children of Ruin, but haven't gotten to it yet)
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Feb 28, 2024 23:31
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mewse posted:"The publisher of “Exordia” claims it is a stand-alone novel. This is baffling. " lol I assume this is Publisher Speak for "Do not feel you have to buy other books first, or wait for the series to end, before buying this book." On the other hand, I think it reaches the kind of conclusion where if you read it by itself (presumably because the General was kidnapped by antimoral space frogs) it could be satisfying, as the character arcs and the "who will do what to who" questions get wrapped up in a way that feels like a complete story. To compare it to dissimilar things, obviously A New Hope doesn't tell the whole story of the rebellion, but it could stand on it's own if you wanted to ignore the rest of the series, whereas Fellowship of the Ring would doesn't make much sense at all to read unless you were reading the next two books as well.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:37
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MockingQuantum posted:I could have sworn I read that one but that sure doesn't sound familiar, I must be confusing it with something else. Is it good? I loved Children of Time and liked most of Children of Memory so I'm all for more smart animal fiction from him if it's solid (I have Children of Ruin, but haven't gotten to it yet) My vague memory is that it was long, the pacing is awful and it has no good characters, but it definitely runs through about 7 different “here’s how smart animals that aren’t humans might develop” scenarios
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Feb 28, 2024 23:38
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Unhelpful non-reviews of the last several books I've read: - This is how you lose the time war - a very fun little read - Lords of Uncreation by Adrian Tchaikovsky - Totally fine sci-fi. Good enough for me to finish the whole series - Exordia - Fantastic. Funny, weird, thoughtful. - Babel by RF Kuang: I liked this one quite a bit, though seems like most don't. I'm going to try to read one of wife's terrible romantasy books next. Kind of curious how bad it is.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:00
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gvibes posted:I'm going to try to read one of wife's terrible romantasy books next. Kind of curious how bad it is. Okay but share titles so we can enjoy the ride along with you.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:08
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buffalo all day posted:My vague memory is that it was long, the pacing is awful and it has no good characters, but it definitely runs through about 7 different “here’s how smart animals that aren’t humans might develop” scenarios I agree with this yeah. Some of the intelligent animal ideas are fun, some aren't, but it really felt like a way to string together a bunch of abandoned ideas he got researching the Children books so as to not let them go to waste.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:11
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thotsky posted:that's on you, perv It was indeed not something I had thought of. Exordia is moving through the UK with the speed of a snail on barbiturates. It was meant to reach distribution three weeks ago, is "in transit" from the main hub now and should be hitting stores next week. I think they must be using Deliveroo cyclists to ship it.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:32
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Pinterest Mom posted:I agree with this yeah. Some of the intelligent animal ideas are fun, some aren't, but it really felt like a way to string together a bunch of abandoned ideas he got researching the Children books so as to not let them go to waste. Ah that's disappointing to hear, but not totally shocking. I feel like both of the first two Children books had a similar problem, where there was like 2/3rds of a good idea filled out with lesser ideas that were fine, but ultimately didn't serve the books that well. Also I checked and the Tchaikovsky book I read that I was confusing it with was Elder Race... which again is like 1/3rd an interesting conc ept and otherwise kind of bland and forgettable.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:42
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parara posted:Okay but share titles so we can enjoy the ride along with you.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:44
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Neal Stephenson’s next book is only 320 pages? Unbelievable.
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Feb 29, 2024 01:53
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Exordia stands alone as the Origin Story for the Hero Group of Various Abstractions. Man. I loved Space Cases Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Feb 29, 2024 |
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Feb 29, 2024 02:19
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Exordia was reviewed in the NYT! Sorry, no gift link. https://bsky.app/profile/amalelmohtar.com/post/3kmhy25mwg52e Oh hey, I read Tusks of Extinction. Pretty dece little book. Sci-fi environmentalism with mammoths.
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Feb 29, 2024 05:51
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Jedit posted:I come to Baru Cormorant, not to praise her. A glorious return of Tain Hu posting. General Battuta posted:I always push back on this because there's this implication that saying "some people get it really bad and they want to change that" is bleakness. It's not bleak that colonialism disfigured the world. It's just true. Bleakness would be Baru being just fine with it, or completely resigned to it, or defying it and being destroyed utterly. Yes, I think this is why I have trouble considering the novels bleak. It's what power does. It's what people with power do. DurianGray posted:A lot (but not all) of stuff other people tend to describe as "cozy" makes me almost nauseous sometimes because of how much it has to willingly ignore or downplay for their premises to work. It's why I've never been able to get aboard the cozy train despite being an absolute sap. I feel like it is something like what Battuta mentioned, especially with how it's cozy fantasy and not cozy sci-fi: fantasy these days feels a lot like a genre in which you can have the trappings of modernity without the systems that allow them to exist and the history that enabled it. So, you end up with Gnomish technologies and elf magicks making coffee shops and air conditioning possible, because the ultimate fantasy (  ) is being able to have those things free of the downsides (colonial exploitation, capitalism, climate change) and the easiest way to do it is in an alternate universe.Whereas I think sci-fi these days is more about engaging with those systems and thoughts, even with esoteric technologies and not-magic.
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Feb 29, 2024 07:32
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Danhenge posted:I was happy to see the link to this other interview indicating that there's more story there, depending on the publisher: "a kernel of moral commitment" That's a really interesting way at looking at characters as a writer of fiction.
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Feb 29, 2024 07:59
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FPyat posted:Neal Stephenson’s next book is only 320 pages? Unbelievable. Always knew he'd write a novella some day.
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Feb 29, 2024 09:43
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I'm trying to power through the first 20 to 30 percent of Cryptonomicon. Is it worth it? I've loved every other book of his I've read (and I've read a few) but I'm struggling. Edit: I put it down to read Exordia, which was great, but now I'm back to this.
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Feb 29, 2024 09:56
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BastardySkull posted:I'm trying to power through the first 20 to 30 percent of Cryptonomicon. Is it worth it? I've loved every other book of his I've read (and I've read a few) but I'm struggling. Cryptonomicon grabbed 15 year old Poldarn by the hair on the first page and didn't let go, so I'm sad to read you didn't have the same experience. I think it stays pretty consistent throughout.
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Feb 29, 2024 11:29
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Dune Part 2 might just be enough to convince me to read those drat sequels.
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Feb 29, 2024 11:40
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It doesn't get noticeably different so if you aren't enjoying it now... Is it the 'present' or the WW2 stuff you don't like?
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Feb 29, 2024 11:41
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Two conflicting theories of bleakness:Kestral posted:For my money, the Baru books are pretty high on my bleak-o-meter not because of the state of the world, but because extraordinarily awful things happen to the protagonist, a lot, in ways that are realistically rendered to the point of horror, and her life is a sine wave of extreme competence followed by extreme helplessness and futility. Her suffering is rendered in high fidelity and it goes on a long, long time. Milkfred E. Moore posted:It's why I've never been able to get aboard the cozy train despite being an absolute sap. I feel like it is something like what Battuta mentioned, especially with how it's cozy fantasy and not cozy sci-fi: fantasy these days feels a lot like a genre in which you can have the trappings of modernity without the systems that allow them to exist and the history that enabled it. So, you end up with Gnomish technologies and elf magicks making coffee shops and air conditioning possible, because the ultimate fantasy ( Does anyone have suggestions of fiction that would heighten the contradictions here by showing either happy characters in the bleak world or bleak characters in a happy world? It doesn't count if it's ironic happiness (1984 isn't about a happy character just because he loves Big Brother at the end). It's not even fiction but the closest thing that comes to mind for me is when I read Siddhartha Mukherjee's Emperor of All Maladies, a history of cancer treatment that I think has an overall positive arc to it (we are much, much better at treating cancer now than a hundred years ago!) but I couldn't get more than halfway through because I found it so depressing to read a book where nearly every "character"--the patients doing experimental chemo treatments in the 60s or whatever--died of cancer.
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Feb 29, 2024 12:54
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