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Countblanc posted:I'm indifferent to whether tanks are too strong in dungeons, but I think if they keep them as strong as they currently are then healers could do with more interesting dps options. For me the issue isn't that I don't get to heal enough, it's that my non-healing tools are extremely limited. Tanks have a huge portion of their skills dedicated to damage and rotations despite being not DPS, I think healers could stand more of the same AND it wouldn't make mandatory msq dungeons harder like increased healing expectations would If you’re not finding stuff to do as a healer in a dungeon you should be running WHM so you can holy spam.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:02
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When people want healers to have bigger damage toolkits, what are the buttons they're willing to give up? Because as a healer, I don't want to lose a single healing tool I have. Even if most to all of them are sitting unused in dungeons, when you get to the interesting content they're all impactful. Except Pepsis. Actually even that got some use this last tier.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:05
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They’ve still got to do a “give the whole party Kardion for a few seconds” cooldown at some point
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Mar 4, 2024 17:07
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Mr. Nice! posted:If you’re not finding stuff to do as a healer in a dungeon you should be running WHM so you can holy spam. Yes I know, the issue for me is that pressing one button (holy for aoe, glare for bosses) is dull and that's all you get to do with a good tank. This is why I simply don't play healer in dungeons anymore though
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Mar 4, 2024 17:08
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The solution is to set up your AoE on three different buttons so you can rotate between them, giving the exact same experience as half the DPS in the game.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:12
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I'd like AoE aero back as a separate DoT but I think the ship has sailed on DoTs
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Mar 4, 2024 17:13
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gay devil posted:I'd like AoE aero back as a separate DoT but I think the ship has sailed on DoTs People keep saying this and I continue to not believe it. I know they've removed a lot of DoTs from the game but every healer still has one, Bard still has multiple, Black Mage still has the thunder family of spells. I don't see a universe in which those six classes in particular lose their DoTs.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:17
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I don't think they'll remove every DoT, I just don't think they'll center jobs around them or add more presently.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:19
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They've added DoTs to Blue Mage!
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Mar 4, 2024 17:21
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DoT's seem to be a mechanical trick for the caster / healer jobs to do auto damage to keep them in line with melee and ranged dps. Although that doesn't explain why BRD still has them outside of intertia
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Mar 4, 2024 17:21
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:When people want healers to have bigger damage toolkits, what are the buttons they're willing to give up? They can take Krasis. I usually just put it on before Haima or Soteria, and don't even think about it for the rest of any fight
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Mar 4, 2024 17:22
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:When people want healers to have bigger damage toolkits, what are the buttons they're willing to give up? Dissipation and the fairy gauge ones are the abilities I am willing to give up. Do not eat your fairy. Anyway I am a well known healer-hater and therefore I would like actual things to do in a dungeon besides slapping the ground over and over, so tanks being immortal on their own is really annoying.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:23
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quiggy posted:People keep saying this and I continue to not believe it. I know they've removed a lot of DoTs from the game but every healer still has one, Bard still has multiple, Black Mage still has the thunder family of spells. I don't see a universe in which those six classes in particular lose their DoTs. One of dragoon’s biggest damage dealers is a DoT still.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:23
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Mr. Nice! posted:One of dragoon’s biggest damage dealers is a DoT still. I excluded this one because I know Dragoon is expected to get a rework in 7.0 and I would not be surprised if it loses its DoT in the process. It doesn't strike me as being as important to the class as it is for the six I called out.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:24
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If you’re bored healing dungeons you could always play AST.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:27
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DRG's DoT is just a result of its GCD combos. Yeah it's there but mostly just to differentiate between the other GCD combo. If it was potency up front, you have two options: Potency is low, you drop the combo after you get power surge. Potency is high, you only use this combo.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:27
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gtrmp posted:There's always bunny on the banana mount. 
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Mar 4, 2024 17:39
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The mit checks are fine in Ex and Savage. Ex is supposed to be fairly casual, and Savage is tuned for week 1 stuff, not BIS 20 ilvls later. Still gotta plan mit out a decent amount at min ilvl. Again, I think the current situation in Savage/Extremes is fine and I don't think would warrant changing, but I do have a personal feeling that Ultimate tanking has kind of spoiled savage/extreme tanking in some way, but making changes to those two in terms of tanking would have detrimental effects for the vast majority of other players.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:11
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Actually, you're not wrong. I was thinking mits as a whole, not necessarily tank side, and forgot a convo I had with my static the other day that nearly every single tank buster in Panda has hit like a limp noodle. A few standouts like P5 with that nasty bleed but overall you're right.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:14
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And I do agree with you that raid-wide mits are fine in Savage, since everyone needs to lend a hand and coordinating healer/tank/dps mits is really important to keep the squishy jobs alive.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:18
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:When people want healers to have bigger damage toolkits, what are the buttons they're willing to give up? Cure I. Just make it auto upgrade into II like the damage spells.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:26
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IthilionTheBrave posted:Cure I. Just make it auto upgrade into II like the damage spells. This. Will also prevent the Freecure trap.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:26
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The position though is a lost art though. Bosses either teleport to the middle, facing North, every 20 seconds or it doesn't even matter. I was doing Thordan Unreal recently and thinking that you don't see much positioning stuff like it these days
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Mar 4, 2024 18:34
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cut the charade and gut zoe, make pneuma 900, dyskrasia is now a dual mode spell and Eukrasian Dyskrasia -- sage's new point blank AOE DoT -- joins the fray. Yoshi i beg you
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Mar 4, 2024 18:36
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:When people want healers to have bigger damage toolkits, what are the buttons they're willing to give up? None just give.me more. On sge my dream changes are a button on long cd that spreads kardia to the whole party and a low damage stacking short gcd attack that works like mchs 2 spam buttons that do piss damage but I can spam really quickly do do spot healing with kardia with like 4 stacks on it.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:36
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If Healer DPS kits are going to remain at basically 3 buttons (main damage GCD, dot, one extra button), I feel like healing should be more demanding in general. But at the same time healing can't be too demanding for base level competency or else the party straight up wipes. It's why enrage timers aren't really a thing in dungeon level content, base level competency for DPS is really really low. It's also not really possible to sacrifice healing power in easy content to boost damage output because then that means healers are going to be trying that in harder/savage content which leads to a frustrating time. When Aetherflow was first reworked for Scholar that's why Energy Drain was straight up removed. They got so many complaints about it that they put it back but that's probably why Sage doesn't have a gauge dump for damage and has to overheal to manage their MP. Tank mit management also became less interesting over time, but I think that's due to fights being more and more designed around PF. The kind of complicated cooldown management that was present in Stormblood for tank mits is going to have a hard time returning, let alone un-telegraphed mini busters where rolling mits throughout the fight and swapping purely for more mits was an actual idea. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKKlHmMZJmQ Hyper Inferno fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 18:41
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I think it would be neat if SCH had an aoe version of Energy Drain for trash pulls. I also miss Bane. They don't have to give us back more dots, but I think being able to spread Biolysis and use aoe Energy Drain would make trash more fun without adding that much complexity. They could even just make Deployment Tactics work like the pvp one! I'm not sure what I'd want for SCH single target dps. I think I'm fine with them how they are, as long as they don't get any ideas about removing energy drain again. Oh and make an updated version of Ruin II with a cooler animation. Hellioning posted:Dissipation and the fairy gauge ones are the abilities I am willing to give up. Do not eat your fairy. No! Eat that fairy for more energy drain!! I think they need to tie a second thing to the fairy gauge though because it's not very interesting to only use it for the beam.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:45
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Give healers rotations and positionals
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Mar 4, 2024 18:50
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Aside from the difficulty in trying to balance a kit's output between two vastly different levels of content, I think the bad old days of Cleric Stance has made them hesitant when it comes to making healer DPS rotations more complex out of concern over turning people off of doing it. I'm personally of the mind that we're sufficiently far into the game's life cycle that healer DPS being more complex than three buttons isn't going to be an issue for the overwhelming majority of people still playing, and dedicating some of their new and reworked buttons towards that is probably a better idea than giving them all even more throughput that's not going to be used outside of Savage.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:51
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Electric Phantasm posted:Give healers rotations Give Assize increased rear potency.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:13
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Give us a Fashion Accessory that's Temperance's Wings, and in multiple colors!
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Mar 4, 2024 19:15
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SCH can keep it's simple DPS rotation but in exchange we need to stop pretending and replace the Dissipation animation with the one Ultima Weapon uses in UWU where it bites Garuda's head off. Satisfying crunch mandatory. 
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Mar 4, 2024 19:20
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I think the general idea of good healing = more damage is a good avenue to pursue for future healing kits. The trick here would be designing it so that you don't get perverse incentives where healers want people to stand in bad solely to proc the healing bonus for a DPS gain. Like the change that made Afflatus Misery/lilies damage neutral, and even a gain with proper raid alignment was an excellent step forward. TBN is another good example.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:29
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You wanna really make things interesting for WHM? Give a oGCD dps ability that spends Lilly charges. It has such great potential to make players do dumb things.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:34
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Hyper Inferno posted:I think the general idea of good healing = more damage is a good avenue to pursue for future healing kits. The trick here would be designing it so that you don't get perverse incentives where healers want people to stand in bad solely to proc the healing bonus for a DPS gain. I was just about to joke about standing in yuck to build toxikon stacks, heh. Yeah, agreed
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Mar 4, 2024 19:49
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when i play scholar in dungeons i never use energy drain
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Mar 4, 2024 19:54
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i dusted off SCH since i finished the relic weapon and tried it after like a year on SGE. i hate the energy drain / heal decision making i gotta do all the time. I get the idea, i just don't want to do it.
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Mar 4, 2024 20:01
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in patch 5.3 they increased the enemy status limit in a. raid from 60 to 200 even though you already arent really getting up to 60 statuses with current dots. they then didn't apply it to the 48 man raids
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Mar 4, 2024 20:10
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Jonny 290 posted:i dusted off SCH since i finished the relic weapon and tried it after like a year on SGE. i hate the energy drain / heal decision making i gotta do all the time. I get the idea, i just don't want to do it. I don't find it very hard at all. I heal if needed and if Aetherflow is close to coming off cooldown I throw out energy drains. Dr Pepper fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 20:12
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Dr Pepper posted:I don't find it very hard at all. I heal if needed and if Aetherflow is close to coming off cookdown I throw out energy drains. wow you're losing dps by not using energy drains during the 2 minute buff window. going to have to report you to the balance.
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Mar 4, 2024 20:14
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