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flatluigi posted:god, that changes a lot about the whole debate if they're really not outright retiring "enters the battlefield" and are just using 'enters' when they need the shorthand  take as you will
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Mar 10, 2024 05:56
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There's a lot of "Magic is changing and I don't like it" I understand, like Universes Beyond, or the dominant influence of EDH on the game. Them shortening things to Enters is such a simple, completely benign adjustment I'm floored people are fretting over it or spending time finding the one or two edge cases where it might be confusing. Maybe Orange Fluffy Sheep will correct me, but mildly surprised on a quick glance that all spells with "0: effect" are rules'd enough that you can't already commit infinite crimes with them. En-Kor's all target themselves, and the Enchant Creature's with that all specify that you can only do it once per turn. Gotta be something out there that can commit infinite crimes... might have to bust out R&D's Secret Lair.
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Mar 10, 2024 07:12
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:They use dies for planeswalkers. I thought that canonically what was happening is that planeswalkers join your battle with a certain amount of loyalty, not hit points or life total, and when they reach 0 loyalty, they planeswalk away and leave your rear end to die. Wtf??
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Mar 10, 2024 07:42
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CatstropheWaitress posted:There's a lot of "Magic is changing and I don't like it" I understand, like Universes Beyond, or the dominant influence of EDH on the game. Them shortening things to Enters is such a simple, completely benign adjustment I'm floored people are fretting over it or spending time finding the one or two edge cases where it might be confusing. https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/212/soltari-guerrillas Spirit Mirror, if you can make them reflections.
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Mar 10, 2024 07:42
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ram dass in hell posted:I thought that canonically what was happening is that planeswalkers join your battle with a certain amount of loyalty, not hit points or life total, and when they reach 0 loyalty, they planeswalk away and leave your rear end to die. Wtf?? Planeswalking just duplicates you on a new plane and leaves the husk of the body you had on that plane behind. Locals chuck it in the graveyard with the freaky creatures and trinkets and magic spells littered about mtg battles.
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Mar 10, 2024 08:05
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Cleretic posted:Like, if I'm using Atraxi Warden's Suspend cast, it's plausible to explain how that isn't the creature entering the battlefield, or entering at all; it didn't walk in the door to the battlefield, it's not available to attack or be attacked, it's just flying around outside the place until eventually it's gonna swoop in through the window. But it's now in the play space, it's now visible to everyone, it's performed an action that's now meant that it's actively doing things, it can be interacted with by other cards. How does that not by reasonable standards count as having 'entered play'? It's funny, I remember when they had to create the term "exile" because it really was confusing how so many things were "Removed from the Game" but actually weren't out of the game
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Mar 10, 2024 08:22
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I was on team "it's fine" until everyone who responded to my post got it wrong.Khanstant posted:Isn't this just a problem with your theoretical card design then? It's not theoretical, I just didn't bother to look it up and used the first one I could think of. https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3A%22enters+the+battlefield+or+is+put+into+a+graveyard%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name It's about seven cards LifeLynx posted:I edited my post to account for Hoot's pedantry. Been a long time since I wrote rules .
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Mar 10, 2024 13:17
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I just chuckle at all this tempting talk because it seems the fan project to keep Netrunner alive, Null Signal Games, has more templating care than this multi-million dollar game franchise sometimes.
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Mar 10, 2024 14:29
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HootTheOwl posted:I was on team "it's fine" until everyone who responded to my post got it wrong. "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" is categorically different from "is put into a graveyard from anywhere". 603.6c "[...]An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone “from anywhere” is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield." -- IIRC, the problem with 'play' was that it referred to the battlefield as a zone and the act of casting a spell or playing a land, so there was ambiguity on when something 'comes into play;.
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Mar 10, 2024 15:09
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:"is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" is categorically different from "is put into a graveyard from anywhere". ... and "Enters" means "Enters the battlefield" and therefore triggers on the battlefield. So I don't see the relevance of what you're saying here.
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Mar 10, 2024 15:13
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djfooboo posted:I just chuckle at all this tempting talk because it seems the fan project to keep Netrunner alive, Null Signal Games, has more templating care than this multi-million dollar game franchise sometimes. Are you under the impression that WotC just decided to do this arbitrarily like a dog or ghost would? I bet they thought about it at least a little bit.
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Mar 10, 2024 15:15
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HootTheOwl posted:I was on team "it's fine" until everyone who responded to my post got it wrong. is this too long to be the thread title lmfao
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Mar 10, 2024 15:19
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HootTheOwl posted:... and "Enters" means "Enters the battlefield" and therefore triggers on the battlefield. You specifically said "put into the graveyard from anywhere", which, as mentioned, is very different to "dies" or "put into the graveyard from the battlefield" as mentioned above (603.6c), and is on zero cards. HootTheOwl posted:Pop quiz hotshot, where does this card trigger? Did you forget you wrote that, because all your posts afterwards only make sense if you think you wrote "put into the graveyard from the battlefield"
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Mar 10, 2024 15:54
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HootTheOwl posted:... and "Enters" means "Enters the battlefield" and therefore triggers on the battlefield. 'Is put into a graveyard from anywhere' never triggers from the battlefield, so 'Enters or is put into a graveyard from anywhere' triggers from two different locations. Best I can tell there's no precedence for this, and the rules don't speak to it one way or another.
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Mar 10, 2024 15:55
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CatstropheWaitress posted:There's a lot of "Magic is changing and I don't like it" I understand, like Universes Beyond, or the dominant influence of EDH on the game. Them shortening things to Enters is such a simple, completely benign adjustment I'm floored people are fretting over it or spending time finding the one or two edge cases where it might be confusing. In my opinion, a big part of the problem is that in MtG nerd circles the problem is ultimately a matter of taste combined with the way it came off as a universal change and not something where they'd return to "enters the battlefield" if it would be a problem. Because when you're at the level of familiarity that someone who posts in an MtG thread has, the question is whether the feel of changing terminology is worth fifteen characters of space on some cards. And if that changed feel doesn't work for, it really doesn't work for you and until we see a critical mass of rules that actually read better on a card because they don't have to say the whole ETB every time the fifteen characters you save in English really don't feel like a meaningful amount. Don't me wrong, there's a lot you can say to rationalize not liking them, and those reasons may or may not hold up. But there's a lot of taste involved, and you can't argue your way into changing that kind of thing.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You specifically said "put into the graveyard from anywhere", which, as mentioned, is very different to "dies" or "put into the graveyard from the battlefield" as mentioned above (603.6c), and is on zero cards. Fantastic Foreskin posted:'Is put into a graveyard from anywhere' never triggers from the battlefield, so 'Enters or is put into a graveyard from anywhere' triggers from two different locations. Best I can tell there's no precedence for this, and the rules don't speak to it one way or another. Finally, a correct answer: both
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Mar 10, 2024 16:19
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OH GOD WHO CARES The only people complaining about this change are the same people that complained about mana value replacing cmc
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Mar 10, 2024 16:23
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hoot you are so incredibly loving annoying. take a break please.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:24
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kalel posted:hoot you are so incredibly loving annoying. take a break please. What's annoying is all you dipshits lining up to "um actually" me while being just wrong on simple loving levels
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Mar 10, 2024 16:27
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So what was missing in LifeLynx or ram dass in hell 's answers? Because that's what they were saying.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:41
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"Dies" seems inclusive, rather than exclusive. If the set of permanents that trigger the ability includes creatures or planeswalkers, it's "dies." My main evidence for this is ability stickers which are placed on nonland permanents. There are 1018 vintage-legal cards with dies triggers so there's probably a lot of edge cases I could find but good lord I am not paid enough for this. Anyway my opinion is "enters the battlefield" is a lot more badass than "enters" so this is a bad change. I am glad Legate Lanius was printed before the change.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:42
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:So what was missing in LifeLynx or ram dass in hell 's answers? Because that's what they were saying. The part where they said it would never trigger on the battlefield, the part that they edited out Sometime else forgot at least discard because they were trying to be cute and list everything Plus konstant saying it didn't and wouldn't exist HootTheOwl fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 16:46
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HootTheOwl posted:I was on team "it's fine" until everyone who responded to my post got it wrong. What's the problem here? Ideally they'd say "enter or dies" like that creature you brought up earlier, but they are weird about using the word "dies" IIRC. Artifacts can definitely die, I've had a car die on me and several computers.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:48
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HootTheOwl posted:Plus konstant saying it didn't and wouldn't exist The cards you posted aren’t graveyard from anywhere.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:51
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:"Dies" seems inclusive, rather than exclusive. If the set of permanents that trigger the ability includes creatures or planeswalkers, it's "dies." 'Dies' is legal wording for any permanent, its use or lack thereof is purely stylistic.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:53
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HootTheOwl posted:The part where they said it would never trigger on the battlefield, the part that they edited out yeah no I immediately answered your little riddle correctly and without editing and then you acted smug for another 2 pages lol
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Mar 10, 2024 16:55
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Silhouette posted:OH GOD WHO CARES Particularly given the couple rounds of Thunder Junction spoilers. Set has an Ox Angel! Ayyy that works. Crime spree here we go. Edit: although does this actually trigger multiple times, or wouldn't it only target the last choice and only when Gorillas connect to a player?
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Mar 10, 2024 17:18
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ram dass in hell posted:yeah no I immediately answered your little riddle correctly and without editing and then you acted smug for another 2 pages lol This you? ram dass in hell posted:When destroyed, milled, counterspelled. Or etb? HootTheOwl posted:Sometime else forgot at least discard because they were trying to be cute and list everything Why are you all being so dense about this? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 10, 2024 17:18
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HootTheOwl posted:The part where they said it would never trigger on the battlefield, the part that they edited out It did exist, once, and was errataed out. Rukh egg from Arabian Nights.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:20
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ram dass in hell posted:yeah no I immediately answered your little riddle correctly and without editing and then you acted smug for another 2 pages lol Your 4 conditions were correct, but you left out discard and maybe some others and that's what he's being Hoot about. edit: lol see?
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Mar 10, 2024 17:20
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HootTheOwl posted:This you?
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Mar 10, 2024 17:23
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Blood moon is getting banned tomorrow in modern
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Mar 10, 2024 17:28
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ilmucche posted:Blood moon is getting banned tomorrow in modern Nah, they unbanning faithless looting and ending this injustice.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:32
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Particularly given the couple rounds of Thunder Junction spoilers. Set has an Ox Angel! It targets on activation, you never even have to swing. (and as long as we're being rules nerds, it sets up a replacement effect, not a delayed trigger.)
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Mar 10, 2024 17:36
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Sickening posted:Nah, they unbanning faithless looting and ending this injustice. Having played modern maybe twice in the past two years and being astounded at how busted everything felt then I'm on board for this. Ban some more elementals too
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Mar 10, 2024 17:44
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Print wasteland into modern in MH3 you cowards.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:53
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Wasteland in, rags and w6 out could be fun
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Mar 10, 2024 18:12
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ilmucche posted:Having played modern maybe twice in the past two years and being astounded at how busted everything felt then I'm on board for this. We need a retro reprint of wasteland with the old tempest art.
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Mar 10, 2024 18:24
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Sickening posted:We need a retro reprint of wasteland with the old tempest art. That would be so good
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Mar 10, 2024 19:48
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I'm hoping they reprint Preordain in MH3 and give it new, good art. And maybe a foil retro frame.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:55
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