|
soviet elsa posted:*swirls wine glass, glares across from Red Keep to Sept* I like to think that roughly 90 minutes after Bronn rode into Highgarden he was dead and hanging from the rafters while a remote surviving Tyrell cousin, a Hightower, a Florent and a Redwyne all toasted each other on a job well done, and blamed the terrible treachery on House Peake, a family who have consistently and hilariously betrayed the rulers of Westeros these past 300 years, and never seem to learn from it.
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 18:58 |
|
|
# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:01 |
|
The reach didn’t have an army because they made all the food
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 19:00 |
|
Waltzing Along posted:Just met Frey. New cool rankings: Dany's chapters are where a lot of the world-building that's not Westeros-centric comes from, so they've got that if you're into it. But if you're into that, you're honestly gonna have a better time just wiki-wandering on one of the fan sites.
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 19:07 |
|
Dany's chapters are good when she actually does something which is once or twice per book.
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 21:57 |
|
Ugh, it gets worse the more I watch it. They have goofy little elf shoes!
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 22:04 |
|
But...boobs.
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 22:26 |
|
Elias_Maluco posted:The books kinda suggests almost since the beginning that Dany is no savior, or at least much less makes her look like one than the TV show Dany never had any chance of it, he signaled right from the start that she was not particularly hinged, and then did everything possibly narratively to make her lose it. Hard to expect even a well-balanced sheltered noble girl to stay particularly sane after being sold to what she sees as barbarians as a child bride at 13, and screwed over by literally everyone except Drogo. Also, as a reminder: The Fat Bastard, in a 2018 interview posted:There was a fair amount of explicit sex in the series and some fans of the books were taken aback. https://web.archive.org/web/20180924150156/https://ew.com/article/2011/07/12/george-martin-talks-a-dance-with-dragons/
|
# ? Mar 18, 2024 23:29 |
|
Waltzing Along posted:And after the Frey bit, I'm amused that Robb (assuming it's the same plot beat as the show) is going to die because of his lack of honor. He made a pact or whatever and went against it. While his dad died because he couldn't ever go against his honor. A lot of interesting karmic beats and ironies in this book. Neds first scene is beheading a dude and then loses his head, himself. Sansa loses her wolf because she lies (because she is a dumb idiot) and then loses her dad because she is a dumb idiot and turns him in. Ned probably should have been a bit more honest with his girls, though. It's like poetry, it rhymes
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 00:08 |
|
Sansa was a dumb kid, but Ned’s goose was already cooked.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 00:14 |
|
Sansa loses her wolf because she is a terrified little girl who wants a cute puppy and a nice boyfriend. A certain Nedward Stark ensures neither happens because HONOR MY KING right after she learns the latter isn't happening. Lady stans unite.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 01:09 |
|
A "Starks aren't stupid" version of the book might be interesting. It would just be a single novel but still fun. Dany dead early on. Bran doesn't thrown out of tower. Joffrey gets killed early on. Cersei/Jamie get found out and exposed. And on and on.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 01:13 |
|
Waltzing Along posted:A "Starks aren't stupid" version of the book might be interesting. It would just be a single novel but still fun. Ehhh I mean if by “Starks aren’t stupid” you mean “Starks ruthless and cool with child murder” then yeah but it would be a much less interesting book series
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 04:54 |
|
The excerpted Dany chapters won him a standalone hugo lmao https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Blood_of_the_Dragon
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 07:34 |
|
Liquid Communism posted:Dany never had any chance of it, he signaled right from the start that she was not particularly hinged, and then did everything possibly narratively to make her lose it. Hard to expect even a well-balanced sheltered noble girl to stay particularly sane after being sold to what she sees as barbarians as a child bride at 13, and screwed over by literally everyone except Drogo. But in the head of they were still kids, and he wanted them to gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 10:24 |
|
Waltzing Along posted:I've heard once I get to book 4 things will go a completely different direction from the show. That's really why I decided to do this, just to see what actually happens. But how far are they going to diverge? Unrecognizably? You want a good book, but you need the bad show. Honestly your dedication is probably warranted if only to find out firsthand where GRRM leaves off Dany's storyline by the end of ADWD. A friend texted me a screencap of that quote a couple days ago, asking me if it was real lol. lmao.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 20:30 |
|
Well Dany just hired the lady to heal drogo and deliver her baby because she is a stupid dumb rear end. And drogo is going along with it because he is a stupid dumb rear end. And jorah is going along with it because he is a stupid dumb rear end. It's stupid dumb asses all the way down.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 20:41 |
|
Again, I think he may have lost the plot, but I have to believe Dany was always set up to be a faildaughter idiot and a deliberate contrast to Jon. Dany has everything handed to her by and large, and pisses it all away. She gets a Dothraki army and fucks it up. She gets an army and fucks it up pissing around Essos. She gets Slaver's Bay and fucks it up with the Meereeneese Knot. She's constantly failing upwards. In contrast Jon has everything stripped from him as the books go on, but manages to claw his way onwards, tooth and nail Both are, of course, secret Targs. Jon's goals are ultimately those of altruism and the Song of Ice and Fire - he is seeking to protect mankind against the Others. Dany's goals are the Game of Thrones and purely selfish; she wishes to rule over a kingdom that has long since grown tired of her family's literally insane bullshit. Like both of them are riffs on the trope of the secret heir to the throne and all that. It's the sort of deconstruction Martin liked/likes. Plus not to mention Dany as a fairly obvious Gulf War 1 - and then Iraq War lmao - metaphor. Like literally everywhere she goes she leaves nothing but smoking ruins and death behind her. Whatever you think of her intentions and character, her track record is basically anyone who comes into contact with her gets destroyed by her. She's a one woman version of the Gang from It's Always Sunny.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 20:45 |
|
Finally getting Dance only to realise a significant part of it was very very boring Daenerys chapters that culminated in water drinking was amazingly awful
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 20:46 |
|
Barristan’s chapter was neat. I feel bad for his actor who was looking forward to doing that stuff in the show and just got ganked by some random people instead.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:18 |
|
RoboChrist 9000 posted:Again, I think he may have lost the plot, but I have to believe Dany was always set up to be a faildaughter idiot and a deliberate contrast to Jon. Something I do enjoy about the books is that, while every word of that is true, Dany is written in such a way that most people, especially on a first read, are totally going to root for her. And she's kinda this great big red herring that is over shadowing Jon. Then there's the baby-targ introduced in Dances With Dragons that I don't even understand the purpose for. The show cuts out a lot of cool and interesting side plots and characters, but that was one I think the show was smart to do without.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:22 |
|
Yeah. She's kind of serving a similar purpose as Ned and Robb. She's clearly written as someone too stupid to live who makes a lot of awful decisions, but she's likable in her own way, and moreover we are conditioned by the conventions of the genre to see her as protagonist/hero coded. So when she inevitably ends up causing death and misery in Westeros as part of her mad scheme to reclaim the throne she believes is hers, it will hit just as hard as Ned's beheading or the Red Wedding. Like instead of a "shocking" character death that in retrospect was super telegraphed and obvious, it's going to (would be) a heel turn that was equally obvious. Or, you know, it would have if Martin hadn't hosed up the momentum of the series and also, you know, ever actually finished it.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:44 |
|
chaosapiant posted:Something I do enjoy about the books is that, while every word of that is true, Dany is written in such a way that most people, especially on a first read, are totally going to root for her. And she's kinda this great big red herring that is over shadowing Jon. Then there's the baby-targ introduced in Dances With Dragons that I don't even understand the purpose for. The show cuts out a lot of cool and interesting side plots and characters, but that was one I think the show was smart to do without. His plot purpose is to preempt and gently caress over Dany. The books have made it pretty clear that as much as the nobility hates the Targs, from the small folk perspective the Mad King is looking less and less lovely with every war crime the new rulers commit in his absence. There's plenty of folk who would rise up for a true Targaryen, and so fAegon is on route to beat Dany to Westeros, win the popular appeal, offer her a version of what she wants that she won't take on principle (become his queen and inherent subordinate after all she's gone through), and promptly get eaten by dragons to absolutely ensure that the small folk will be just as done with the Targs as everyone else. If he weren't there and she showed up first she'd have the Throne in a matter of weeks with no problems, with him there even if she takes King's Landing she still won't have the kingdom. His thematic purpose is to contrast Jon. FAegon looks the part of the secret heir, raised in the wilderness outside the kingdom by scholars and nuns so that he'd be a true ruler and nothing but virtue - but because it was a deliberate attempt to create him and because he was raised knowing his intended fate, he's actually an awful little poo poo who won't be any better a ruler than any of those who came before him. Jon meanwhile is a true secret heir and while he was raised by nobility he was genuinely humbled his whole life by being treated as a bastard and his training in the wilderness didn't involve being the Specialist Boy but just another guy who came to power by popular acclaim. Dany not having this either is why in the end she'll go crazy. It's still just another huge complication that didn't need this much focus though.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 21:52 |
|
It’s been 12-13 years since I read Dances With Dragons; doesn’t one of Dany’s chapters end in her dragons roasting one or the suitors from Dorne?
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 22:14 |
|
chaosapiant posted:It’s been 12-13 years since I read Dances With Dragons; doesn’t one of Dany’s chapters end in her dragons roasting one or the suitors from Dorne? The Frog is just off page, chilling with his tame dragon.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 22:21 |
|
chaosapiant posted:It’s been 12-13 years since I read Dances With Dragons; doesn’t one of Dany’s chapters end in her dragons roasting one or the suitors from Dorne? One of the suitor's chapters, but yes. Difference is, that's far away, it's his own fault (he was trying to steal it) and no one except the Martell's really liked Quentyn. FAegon and his other bride, Arianne Martell, (he'll try to mimic his alleged ancestor by having two wives and three dragons) will die in Westeros, possibly in King's Landing, at Dany's command, and the small folk won't like their figurehead being killed one bit.
|
# ? Mar 19, 2024 22:22 |
|
lol. Lmao. I wish I could send this to GRRM. Not to attempt to motivate him but because I want him to feel bad. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Mar 20, 2024 |
# ? Mar 20, 2024 01:59 |
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:lol. Lmao. You don’t need to know where he lives for sky writing.
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 03:38 |
|
Sensa. Been a lot of pages since some typed that. Good times.
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 04:04 |
|
Ravenson posted:His plot purpose is to preempt and gently caress over Dany. The books have made it pretty clear that as much as the nobility hates the Targs, from the small folk perspective the Mad King is looking less and less lovely with every war crime the new rulers commit in his absence. There's plenty of folk who would rise up for a true Targaryen, and so fAegon is on route to beat Dany to Westeros, win the popular appeal, offer her a version of what she wants that she won't take on principle (become his queen and inherent subordinate after all she's gone through), and promptly get eaten by dragons to absolutely ensure that the small folk will be just as done with the Targs as everyone else. If he weren't there and she showed up first she'd have the Throne in a matter of weeks with no problems, with him there even if she takes King's Landing she still won't have the kingdom. The irony is that Jon being as he is comes down purely to luck and his own nature. He has every reason to be bitter as hell, and frankly a lot of his motivation seems to be the desire to tell all of Westeros to get hosed and go be literally anywhere else. Makes his ending in the show make sense, of course Jon and Arya hosed off north after the war, they've got absolutely no reason to stick around while Sansa and Bran play at being rulers until the next rebellion. The wildlings are pretty much the only ones that have ever treated Jon as just some guy, and at the present point (and in the show) Arya's really got nothing left of a personality or sense of self beyond 'Jon's cool, I'll go chill with him and we'll murder the poo poo out of whatever was hanging with the Others'. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Mar 20, 2024 |
# ? Mar 20, 2024 06:59 |
|
Liquid Communism posted:The irony is that Jon being as he is comes down purely to luck and his own nature. He has every reason to be bitter as hell, and frankly a lot of his motivation seems to be the desire to tell all of Westeros to get hosed and go be literally anywhere else. Makes his ending in the show make sense, of course Jon and Arya hosed off north after the war, they've got absolutely no reason to stick around while Sansa and Bran play at being rulers until the next rebellion. The wildlings are pretty much the only ones that have ever treated Jon as just some guy, and at the present point (and in the show) Arya's really got nothing left of a personality or sense of self beyond 'Jon's cool, I'll go chill with him and we'll murder the poo poo out of whatever was hanging with the Others'. Arya never went with Jon North? Unless I’m missing something?
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 11:59 |
|
chaosapiant posted:Arya never went with Jon North? Unless I’m missing something? Not with Jon, but she does gently caress off and leave the continent and its politics behind. Though I guess it's more northwest than north.
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 14:11 |
|
disaster pastor posted:Not with Jon, but she does gently caress off and leave the continent and its politics behind. Though I guess it's more northwest than north.
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 15:24 |
|
Drakyn posted:Arya's expedition - trapped in the ice overwinter -- perishes with all hands after consuming canned rations sealed with delicious lead solder to the bemusement of the locals; centuries later, bards compose a mournful ballad about how neat that was. Does she warg into the demonic polar bear?
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 17:36 |
|
Waltzing Along posted:
Or it could be that Robb dies because he is too honorable. In the books at least he gets wounded in a battle, and is all hosed up on opium while a noble maiden tends to him. They end up loving, and he offers to marry her because it would be too dishonorable to treat her like a one night stand. To Robb it would be more honorable to marry a maiden he had deflowered than to keep his word to one he hadn't. He didn't want to make a bastard and was always thinking about his dad's one slip of his own honor that didn't actually happen.
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 18:16 |
|
Catlyn’s annoyed with it until she finds out Robb married someone with good birthing hips
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 18:22 |
|
bobjr posted:Catlyn’s annoyed with it until she finds out Robb married someone with good birthing hips Jaime disagrees because Jeyne isn’t his sister, Queen of Whores.
|
# ? Mar 20, 2024 20:56 |
|
bobjr posted:Catlyn’s annoyed with it until she finds out Robb married someone with good birthing hips for some loving reason i remember it being the opposite actually
|
# ? Mar 22, 2024 02:16 |
|
Best characters in these books Strong Belwas Barristan The Bold Garlan Tyrell Patchface No more questions
|
# ? Mar 23, 2024 07:44 |
|
Arya goes "west of Westeros" in the show. Which probably means death in the actual book setting, no one's ever known to have survived, definitely not an inexperienced sailor with a crew of mercenary sailors. Elissa Farman, or her boat, might have. In the show, she's immortal so she'll have landed the secret continent between Essos and Westeros, HBOros.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2024 07:49 |
|
|
# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:01 |
|
TGG posted:Best characters in these books I just met Patchface and I agree. He's #1 with Mormont raven coming up behind and Walder Frey in 3rd.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2024 16:54 |