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Admiral Joeslop posted:He just assumed Goku was a mutant like him and all his power was just out in the open. Apparently had no idea that Goku actually trained and could control his power to a degree that very few people could even fathom, which was his downfall. All that overwhelming power is useless if you can't access it. He assumed he was a mutant, but he recognized him as being able to control his Battle Power because Ginyu could do it as well.
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Apr 3, 2024 21:11
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P-Mack posted:He blew up the drat moon! Larryb posted:So did Piccolo Was there ever an explanation about how it came back?
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Apr 3, 2024 21:31
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Hunt11 posted:Was there ever an explanation about how it came back? e: it was Kami, but i'd stand by this general sentiment. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 21:35
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kami fixed the moon after it was blown up
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Apr 3, 2024 21:36
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Hunt11 posted:Was there ever an explanation about how it came back? Kami fixed it the first time, presumably the second too.
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Apr 3, 2024 21:36
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Hunt11 posted:Was there ever an explanation about how it came back? Some sort of Kami magic.
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Apr 3, 2024 21:37
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kami sits on his big tower hanging with mr popo and fixing the moon when it gets blown up thats his job
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Apr 3, 2024 21:37
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think Roshi got scaled strength, Roshi just was always a top-tier human until space aliens started to come into play. It's worth noting that Roshi is still arguably the strongest human being on Earth who isn't either an alien, descended from aliens, was given a powerup by an alien, or is a cyborg. Dude was an absolute fuckin' beast for humans. I'm pretty sure both Krillin and Tien were stronger than Roshi prior to Krillin getting his power unlocked on Namek, though. But power level stuff even early into Z makes no sense, because early Z tells us that Kami could have trained everyone up to at least Raditz levels in (IIRC) less than a year if he wanted to.
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Apr 3, 2024 22:53
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While Awawa world was a failure in the competition, Toriyama tried again, getting to the finals this time with this oneshot: https://mangadex.org/chapter/16cfab75-cc97-4bb5-a911-bfa11818f44e/2 Still hasnt hit his classic stride that youd see in dr slump but still undeniably toriyama. Gotta say it would have been weird and a very different world if he kept his betty boop rendering for female characters. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 23:21
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Ytlaya posted:I'm pretty sure both Krillin and Tien were stronger than Roshi prior to Krillin getting his power unlocked on Namek, though. It's hilarious that Toriyama paid lip service early in Z to trying to get everyone caught up to Goku's previous major fight's power level (having them train with Kami/King Kai/etc) before proceeding to do absolutely nothing with them. The Vegeta/Nappa showdown is basically the last time the bulk of the cast actually participates in a major way aside from one-off moments like Tenshinhan putting Semi-Perfect Cell in a hole.
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Apr 4, 2024 01:11
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Zonekeeper posted:It's hilarious that Toriyama paid lip service early in Z to trying to get everyone caught up to Goku's previous major fight's power level (having them train with Kami/King Kai/etc) before proceeding to do absolutely nothing with them. The Vegeta/Nappa showdown is basically the last time the bulk of the cast actually participates in a major way aside from one-off moments like Tenshinhan putting Semi-Perfect Cell in a hole. Yajarobe seriously came in clutch between cutting off the tail and sucker cutting Vegeta in the back when he was about to attack Goku again later, so really the takeaway is that the team should have been far more dogged in making him train.
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Apr 4, 2024 01:30
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yajirobe casually fighting krillin while eating ftw
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Apr 4, 2024 04:20
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Last Celebration posted:Yajarobe seriously came in clutch between cutting off the tail and sucker cutting Vegeta in the back when he was about to attack Goku again later, so really the takeaway is that the team should have been far more dogged in making him train. Like I've said before Yajirobe probably had the potential to become the strongest unaltered Human fighter but he's lazy and gave up on fighting rather early on, like at least Chi Chi and Videl had the valid reason of starting families for giving up on fighting
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Apr 4, 2024 04:51
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Zonekeeper posted:It's hilarious that Toriyama paid lip service early in Z to trying to get everyone caught up to Goku's previous major fight's power level (having them train with Kami/King Kai/etc) before proceeding to do absolutely nothing with them. The Vegeta/Nappa showdown is basically the last time the bulk of the cast actually participates in a major way aside from one-off moments like Tenshinhan putting Semi-Perfect Cell in a hole. Krillin at least did some stuff on Namek, like saving him/Gohan/Dende from Dodoria with a Solar Flare. Speaking of Solar Flare, it's definitely one of the best abilities in the series. I think it almost always works, regardless of how powerful the target is.
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Apr 4, 2024 07:39
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Yajirobe punking out Drum, then cooking and eating him is a Top 5 OG Dragon Ball thing. The others (in no order): The Mafuba (and the Reverse Mafuba) King Piccolo abolishing the police Unexpected character does a Kamehameha Tao Pai Pai's KILL YOU jacket Honorable mention: The Dodonpa Goku wondering why Tao Pai Pai and Master Shen look nothing alike, then wondering why Baba and Roshi look nothing alike
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Apr 4, 2024 07:42
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Toriyama should have let Tien survive the Saiyan Saga, but still out of the fight due to losing an arm; then he and Yajirobe should have joined in on the Namek trip. Would have definitely led to the side cast having greater roles later on.
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Apr 4, 2024 09:49
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Tokelau All Star posted:Yajirobe punking out Drum, then cooking and eating him is a Top 5 OG Dragon Ball thing. Drum is the fat one that clowns on Tien for a while before Goku punched half his face off, Tamborine is the one that killed Krillin (and apparently was voiced by Frieza’s JP actor? Wild). Speaking of, Goku punching half of Drum’s face off is a top tier moment, Dragonball’s manga has a bunch of violence, but that’s the most visceral thing aside from Gohan massacring the Cell Jrs, and it’s really good as storytelling to tell you without exposition that, yeah, Goku is loving over this poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2024 09:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqxfRV1GfhQ
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Apr 4, 2024 10:17
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Lol. So the new Xenoverse DLC is giving Vegeta his own version of Super Saiyan Rose. It is called Ultra Supervillain Vegeta
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Apr 4, 2024 13:51
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ImpAtom posted:Lol. So the new Xenoverse DLC is giving Vegeta his own version of Super Saiyan Rose. It is called Ultra Supervillain Vegeta It's just Super Saiyan God but with yet another tier of Villain (the third so far, not counting how the first had three grades itself) on top of it. It's not Rose, though it's somewhat visually similar, likely why Goku Black was the first to get it.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:03
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the saiyan saga was pretty genius in writing. you finished reading and following kid goku to teen goku weekly, big time skip, adult goku, and in the first big arc, all the old cast, Yamcham Tien, etc all get killed right off the bat. And the goal now is to wish them back. Its such a simple but really good hook and ends up writing itself for many years
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Apr 4, 2024 17:06
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more like goku whack
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Apr 4, 2024 17:13
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Captain France posted:I have to assume his power up came from a combination of the unspoken "seeing a higher power level makes it way easier to reach it" rule, and being inspired by his students hitting what seemed like a ceiling and smashing through it over and over. I want a "what if" story where Krillin (and his right-hand-man Yamcha) leaves Earth and becomes a warlord reigning over hundreds of worlds, destroying uncooperative planets
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Apr 4, 2024 18:45
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GateOfD posted:the saiyan saga was pretty genius in writing. On re-watch it's striking how much grittier the first DBZ sagas are. The enemies are legitimately much stronger and killing off major characters immediately adds high stakes. Now it's just ho hum they're going to get beat up until they unlock some new power. There's no danger anymore. Even Gohan vs. Cell Max just had to concentrate really hard to unlock power on par with Goku's intensive training for years under the actual God of Destruction.
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Apr 4, 2024 20:36
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cirus posted:On re-watch it's striking how much grittier the first DBZ sagas are. The enemies are legitimately much stronger and killing off major characters immediately adds high stakes. Now it's just ho hum they're going to get beat up until they unlock some new power. There's no danger anymore. Even Gohan vs. Cell Max just had to concentrate really hard to unlock power on par with Goku's intensive training for years under the actual God of Destruction. The very first arc of Dragonball Z had Goku dying which instantly allowed him to go visit an alien god and learn a super move that made him massively strong and could be multipled multiple times, while in that same time frame Gohan when from Literally Never Threw A Punch to Stronger Than Everyone But Piccolo. Like genuinely the only character who killing off (by the time of Z) had major stakes for was Piccolo or Kami because otherwise Dragonballs existed. Even when Goku died they were just like "Okay, let's go wish him back" until they got asked to hold off so he could go train. Edit: Oh, and Chao-Tzu. Chao-Tzu was permadead. Even then though the Namekian dragonballs got dropped as a thing pretty early. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 20:43
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drrockso20 posted:Like I've said before Yajirobe probably had the potential to become the strongest unaltered Human fighter but he's lazy and gave up on fighting rather early on, like at least Chi Chi and Videl had the valid reason of starting families for giving up on fighting So you're saying Yajirobe and Korin's relationship is not valid? 
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Apr 5, 2024 00:07
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Goku had to die and train in the afterlife to learn techniques that could only ever be taught after death, just to be evenly matched with an alien that could have wiped the whole squad out with no effort. And it turned out that alien wasn't poo poo in the interstellar robber-baron gang he was a soldier in. It would not have been as exciting if Goku had just steamrolled Vegeta, or in any other fights after training or a transformation occurs. We don't watch this show or read the manga to watch someone that is overlevelled like a twelve-year-old's starter Pokémon. The thing that has always bothered me is any character that isn't Goku (or in two cases, Gohan) follows in his footsteps and undergoes the same training and dedicates their life to martial arts, and there's no shortage of bad guys or opponents that are naturally gifted who body all of them and are somehow on par with a fighter who's gotten training and instruction he could only get in the afterlife or from the highest order of divinity.
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Apr 5, 2024 00:12
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Star Man posted:Goku had to die and train in the afterlife to learn techniques that could only ever be taught after death, just to be evenly matched with an alien that could have wiped the whole squad out with no effort. And it turned out that alien wasn't poo poo in the interstellar robber-baron gang he was a soldier in. I mean the same thing applies to Goku. Goku isn't a dude who started on the ground floor. Even before Saiyans were a thing he was the Monkey King who was unnaturally strong and faster, learned Master Roshi's ultimate technique just by watching it, could turn into a giant super ape, and got the power to defeat King Piccolo by drinking a power-up potion. Then it was revealed he was an alien who literally gets stronger every time he gets beaten up. Also like... Goku doesn't actually win fights on his own that often in DBZ. Of the major fights: Radditz: 2v1 with Piccolo, ends in a TKO Saiyans: Beats Nappa, loses to Vegeta and eventually it is Krillin, Gohan and fuckin' Yajirobi who take Vegeta down. Frieza: Only defeats Frieza because he got a super cool powerup that made him much stronger entirely because of his biology (and at the time pure heart.) Cell: Loses. Buu: Defeats him only with the help of a bunch of other people including Mr. Satan. If you thought DBZ was about a talented martial artist who won through his own raw skill against equal or superior opponents that wasn't really a thing. Goku almost always either outclasses or is hilariously outclassed by the person he fights. I think the only times he isn't is during the World Martial Arts tournaments and *maybe* vs Majin Vegeta. (And we know he had another form to whip out.) Edit: ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 00:42
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I think its good DB is a comic where you can become strong without being trained by several gods, that's just one of the ways to become strong.
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Apr 5, 2024 00:50
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ImpAtom posted:Lol. So the new Xenoverse DLC is giving Vegeta his own version of Super Saiyan Rose. It is called Ultra Supervillain Vegeta lol I saw the announcement and just assumed he was getting Ultra Ego, but that's even better
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Apr 5, 2024 01:33
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cirus posted:On re-watch it's striking how much grittier the first DBZ sagas are. The enemies are legitimately much stronger and killing off major characters immediately adds high stakes. Now it's just ho hum they're going to get beat up until they unlock some new power. There's no danger anymore. Even Gohan vs. Cell Max just had to concentrate really hard to unlock power on par with Goku's intensive training for years under the actual God of Destruction. Battle of Gods involved Goku getting beaten into a pulp multiple times by a callous invincible god who is presently way farther beyond Goku than Vegeta was and who only spared Earth because he thought Goku might be more amusing one day. Resurrection F involved Freeza actually blowing up the Earth and killing everyone on the planet(including shots of beloved named characters looking at the wall of light coming to obliterate them) because Vegeta hosed up. Goku Black involved showing a version of Goku and his entire family dying onscreen and Trunks's entire world being a wiped out hellhole beyond a few survivors *before* we get to the resolution. The ToP had multiple universes get erased from existence. The Super movies are kind of low stakes, but the stakes of every single major Super series arc are "everyone on Earth dies and/or Earth is completely destroyed".
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Apr 5, 2024 02:19
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Goku is consistently like "Wow, you got that strong all on your own? That's so cool!" to Gohan, Frieza, Broly, 17, Caulifla, Hit, even Jiren at times! Goku is not a dude who trains to defeat his enemies. Goku is a dude who trains to fight other strong dudes because he finds it really really fun, and that is a vital part of his character. The stronger he gets, the more "avenging my friends" fades into the background for him, because it turns out fightmanitis is contagious and fighting dudes is the 9 times out of 10 the perfect form of communication. The few times Goku DOES set his mind to nothing but "I need to kick this guy's rear end", he is clearly not enjoying the fight.
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Apr 5, 2024 02:25
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I like how Vegeta has been there to (sometimes literally) kick Goku to the kerb and take over in any given arc's climactic fight, preventing complete catastrophic failure for the team after Goku does Goku things. His character development can also be noted: vs Ginyu? "I might need you in my fight against Frieza." vs #19? "I'll kill this fat dumpy clowndroid then you're next." vs Kid Buu? "You could have finished this already? You're exceptionally stupid. I'll do what I can while you charge that Spirit Bomb, just don't gently caress it up!" (Bonus: Vegeta Redemption Arc!) vs Golden Frieza: "Wow, you're still as stupid as you were when we first met. I'll take over, good thing Krillin can save you."
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Apr 5, 2024 02:45
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This may mean absolutely nothing, but after the Dragon Ball Sparking Zero site just had Broly as "Broly", which made some think that Z Broly won't be in, the official Twitter account now specifically referred to him as "Broly (Super)". There's no way Z Broly isn't in the game regardless, but I have to wonder if he won't be DLC alongside other non-canon characters and the main Sparking Zero roster will be almost entirely if not fully canon.
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Apr 5, 2024 17:26
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Broly (Good) and Broly (Bad)
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Apr 5, 2024 17:32
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Broly (bad) and Super 17 vs Broly (good) and 17 (Super.)
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Apr 5, 2024 17:38
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wonder if the manga-only characters will make an appearance. say what you want about the Moro’s arc, the old goat wizard design went hard (he should’ve stayed in that form)
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Apr 5, 2024 17:38
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Imagining Nameless Freeza Soldier getting in over Z Broly and having a laugh.
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Apr 5, 2024 17:39
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moro would be cool in a fighting game and hell so would gas and granolah there can never be enough characters in dbz fighting games
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Apr 5, 2024 17:40
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Augus posted:wonder if the manga-only characters will make an appearance. It's possible but for whatever reason they seem extremely reluctant to use the manga-only characters. I don't even think they've shown up in Heroes and Heroes has fuckin' everything. Sparking is said to have around 164 characters which sounds like a lot but each transformation is counted separately. (In comparison Tenkaichi 3 had 161 and that predated Super.) It's still going to be an insane cast but the ToP alone could probably fill up a huge chunk of that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 17:41
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