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I think battle rank might have to do with your odds of learning new spells, just like with techs.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:42
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:there's probably some formula that weights element level, int, spellcasting level, and some random loving thing you'd never guess for learning each specific spell. i mean, this is a game that colors the wood skill blue and the water skill black. i'll leave the details to the dataminers. I didn't find the formula for how spell learning works in detail. I did find a table listing what I'm pretty sure are the difficulty levels for each learnable spell, though: code:My takeaway from all of this is confirmation that it probably just works like Frontier again, except it checks some mix of element level/int/spellcasting skill instead of a per-character gun/magic aptitude (I checked for that too, there's nothing suggesting it exists here). And you don't need The Gift I guess
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Apr 29, 2024 19:11
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metal spells are ameya's thing. there's no gear for those because she doesn't need it and no one else can learn them.
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Apr 29, 2024 19:37
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I think it’s very funny that this game does the Mei-Ling from Frontier trap again 
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Apr 29, 2024 19:38
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Dolores should have Metal magic........
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Apr 29, 2024 19:54
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I'm gonna cast gravity bind for the rest of my playthrough and see if I ever learn Heaven's Thunder. I've been casting it for like 4 worlds now with high stats and still nothing >_<
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Apr 29, 2024 19:56
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Rascyc posted:I'm gonna cast gravity bind for the rest of my playthrough and see if I ever learn Heaven's Thunder. I've been casting it for like 4 worlds now with high stats and still nothing >_< I did the same with fire magic and only unlocked the 3rd spell for Ameya near the end of her playthrough, with as much boosting her fire stat as possible and all the int you get from cats. That's why I was thinking it's battle rank related.
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Apr 29, 2024 20:05
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TurnipFritter posted:Dolores should have Metal magic........ hitting someone with reverse delta is a kind of metal magic. it'd sure be nice if some of these expensive axe techs got bp cost reductions from ranking up. unfortunately, it looks like only the defensive techs get that.
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Apr 29, 2024 20:08
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Tortolia posted:Humans can more than catch up in that game, because the stat cap is actually 255 and not 99 - and they can steroid themselves well above the 99 limit that other races actually get capped at. (Don’t get too close to 255, the value will roll over if you push too high). HP can also similarly go above 999 but that’s a lot of menuing for anemic rewards by then. Yeah, each class essentially peaks at a different point in the game: Monsters are great very early to early-mid depending on how much thought or FAQ-reading you put into their growth, you can get up to tier 13 of 14 before you leave the first world and be on a firepower level with final dungeon monsters, and this tier has no valid downgrade paths. Also has the benefit that they can never fall too far behind or run out of gas in a dungeon if they can at least survive a fight. But their stats are not just limited to the display cap but to actually existing enemy statlines, and beyond that monster abilities are designed to be weak so the party can react with heals and low use-count--every attack has a multiplier, and the the single best monster strength attack has 9 equivalent to a Silver Sword except with 3 uses, the single best monster agility attack has 6 equivalent to the Saber female protagonists start with except having only 10 uses, and while their direct damage magic is tied at 4 with mutant innates bought spellbooks are 6-11. There is a single exception in the list of multihit attacks that's used by the penultimate boss and is strength-based with a multiplier of 12, but it's only available on a single playable monster, and that monster has around floor 10 stats. Mutants end up midgame powerhouses that stay relevant with cheaper and more reliable AoE through the end. Their stats will increase to an even 999/99/99/99/99 given enough time, but are force-capped at the end of each battle to these--a journeyman's tip is that they can equip stat-boosting gear at 99 and get the benefit for one battle if you're okay with them being leveled down afterward, and a master's tip is that due to a bug in which damage randomization (which is implemented as bonus damage here, like most early Square games) only applies to the bottom byte of damage, Agi characters lose 64 average damage at 96 points but only gain 4 base from 96-99, so it's better to constantly recycle them back down to 89. Incidentally, there's no actual responsivity to what you do in mutant stat gains; after every won battle, it's a flat 35/256 to add or replace a skill, 34/256 to gain 10-15 HP, 30/256 to gain 1-5 Mana, 18/256 to gain 1-5 Agi, 18/256 to gain 1-5 Str, 8/256 to gain 1-3 def, 4/256 to refresh or lose casts on existing skill (separate from a skill coincidentally replacing itself), and 109/256 to do nothing. And from knowing the odds of a gain plus the cost to purchase it for humans, we can establish GP-equivalent values for mutants' expected stat gains, which work out to around 132 per fight on floor 1 compared to 40 GP per monster, 279 per fight on floor 5 compared to 120 GP per monster, 288 per fight on floor 10 compared to 400-600 GP per monster, 300 per fight on floor 16 compared to 900-1600 GP per monster, and 335 per fight compared to 2000-2400 per monster in the endgame. That is, a party of four mutants gets 13 times the benefit from a floor 1 fight with a single monster that any number of humans do; they get a roughly equal benefit from two or three monsters on floor 10, except also all the money can go to gear; but in the endgame, the entire party of 4 mutants gains less on average on their stat rolls than a human can buy at the shop from a single monster's worth of gold--and endgame formations tend to be big, which would just make it worse if mutants weren't the efficient way to deal with wide big formations. Humans, as noted, just scale to the moon--or to 32768/255/255/10/70 with a single gear slot taken up, if you don't care about resists, at least. Str and Agi cost a flat 150 a point, HP costs approximately 9.5 a point below 200, 95 a point 200-400, and exactly 100 a point post-400. Well, not quite exactly: between 400 and 600 you have the choice of a 100GP item that will only raise it by 1 or a 5000GP item that will raise it by 5-20 but averaging around 10. Or, inverted, 3.75 floor 1 monsters are worth one point of Str, a better floor 10 monster is worth 6 points of Str, a better endgame monster is worth 16 points of Str--it only takes 7.5 better endgame monsters to push a fresh recruit to display cap both Str and Agi, and only 26.75 (as low as three encounters!) to get those offensive stats to just below overflow. And HP rolls in at a rate of 24 per monster too, if you really want to deal with that much clicking. It is worth noting, though, that just as Agi mutants have a bad interaction around the random-damage bug and the Catclaw, Str humans have one around the random-damage bug and the Sun Sword and it is best to stop at 239. (As for what happens if you go over cap--Str and Agi just reset, but HP effectively bricks the character: if you survive an attack which deals damage and still have over 32,767 HP remaining, it is considered a negative number and you die. The only solution is to dose all the way up to 65535, overflow to 0, and start again from the very beginning.) Mandoric fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 20:13
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Snake Maze posted:I think it’s very funny that this game does the Mei-Ling from Frontier trap again Is this Constantine from Diva #5’s campaign?
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Apr 29, 2024 20:26
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Kagon posted:Is this Constantine from Diva #5’s campaign? Lord Evilton, the dude who tells you explicitly not to put him in the party? Naaaah, couldn't be.
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Apr 29, 2024 20:28
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ImpAtom posted:Lord Evilton, the dude who tells you explicitly not to put him in the party? Naaaah, couldn't be. I mean I like how much he telegraphed it at least. Once I got that message a few times, I benched him since I didn’t trust him anymore. Still remember being burned by that hard in Frontier way back.
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Apr 29, 2024 20:38
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Kagon posted:Is this Constantine from Diva #5’s campaign? Yep. You probably can’t be burned too bad by it even if you rely on them the whole run since you can always put his gear on one of the late game robot recruits you get, but it’s still funny that they pulled the same trick twice.
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Apr 29, 2024 20:51
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ImpAtom posted:Lord Evilton, the dude who tells you explicitly not to put him in the party? Naaaah, couldn't be. I honestly took this to just him being characterized as a simpering coward, which was more incentive to want to put him in my team and get his head cracked open by random monsters.
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Apr 29, 2024 21:09
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ImpAtom posted:Lord Evilton, the dude who tells you explicitly not to put him in the party? Naaaah, couldn't be. I wasn't sure if he was going to pull a Mei-Ling or if it was going to be an Arthur situation where iirc he can ditch your team in the end if you don't field him in enough battles, but yeah it was clear something was up with him
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Apr 29, 2024 21:39
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Kanos posted:I honestly took this to just him being characterized as a simpering coward, which was more incentive to want to put him in my team and get his head cracked open by random monsters. I legit did the same lol
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Apr 29, 2024 21:50
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I don’t know if it’s intended to be good when some of your party gets knocked out in a boss fight and makes setting up a showstopper fairly simple, but boy, Wednesday just beat some rear end.
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Apr 30, 2024 03:40
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there's no healing, so there has to be a comeback mechanic or else you'd simply lose every time after taking enough damage.
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Apr 30, 2024 03:50
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Tortolia posted:I don’t know if it’s intended to be good when some of your party gets knocked out in a boss fight and makes setting up a showstopper fairly simple, but boy, Wednesday just beat some rear end. it's either that or 
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Apr 30, 2024 04:47
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It's not a get out of jail free comeback mechanic either cause a lot of bosses can out speed you and just show stopper you right back. It's a neat mechanic. So do you not get a bp reduction at 4 stars in a tech or am I tripping
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Apr 30, 2024 05:57
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as far as i can tell the only techs that get a bp reduction from ranking up are the defensive ones like deflect and guardian program. it's worth doing, as some go down to 1 bp. they're also very easy to rank up as they apply to full party attacks. otherwise, if there's a tech or spell that does anything other than increase attack by ranking up i have yet to find it. edit: i forgot about the various support spells. most of those get a bp reduction, too. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Apr 30, 2024 |
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Apr 30, 2024 06:27
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Beat Diva's story. The game really does feel tuned around asspull victories at the last possible second via showstoppers, I only barely eked out a victory. The music was really good for the final boss but it doesn't seem like anyone has uploaded it to youtube and there's no OST to purchase on Steam, so I'm unable to go listen to it again... well, without loading up my old save and fighting it again, I guess.
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Apr 30, 2024 08:53
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Obligatum VII posted:The music was really good for the final boss but it doesn't seem like anyone has uploaded it to youtube and there's no OST to purchase on Steam, so I'm unable to go listen to it again... well, without loading up my old save and fighting it again, I guess. Was wondering about this myself, and it seems like the OST is released in Japan tomorrow so an official upload might not be too far away at least!
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Apr 30, 2024 12:57
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Rascyc posted:It's not a get out of jail free comeback mechanic either cause a lot of bosses can out speed you and just show stopper you right back. It's a neat mechanic. This is definitely the nightmare situation when it's your slowest character who's the last member standing, and there's nothing you can do to prevent the boss show stopper. It is my favorite new mechanic though by far because of how satisfying it feels to pull off. The lack of BP reduction outside of combos with some formations is definitely frustrating since it means a lot of the higher star techniques are just not going to be used. I haven't hit max on them, so I'm still hoping that there may be *some* BP reduction eventually, even though it seems more limited to the support abilities like others said
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Apr 30, 2024 14:01
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Hm I haven't gotten an a buff spell yet to compare, but I was on like gen 7 of Blaid or whomever and she'd gotten all the buff spores but they all come with a crown so I assumed they couldn't be leveled. They cost like 2-3 stars but at least they get you 2/3rd of the way to the max buff. I thought buffs kind of sucked at first but the atk one is quite nice on whoever tends to end your combos, and the speed one does noticeably mess with turn order. At least I've seen the BP-1 after Turn 5 weapon line and those have been pretty good, I guess I've fallen into an out-tank strategy in general on my current run using Phoenix or Tercio formations. I know the gunner robot can get a BP-1 equivalent role if you level their base skill high enough. That was one thing I wish I had realized earlier on my Dva route - that there's more role unlocks than just the Rank 2 in their innate ability. Wish I had pushed more innates to rank 3 to see what, if anything, they get.
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Apr 30, 2024 14:17
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I'd say this is probably a dumb question, but it's a SaGa game, so I won't say that. Do you need open skill slots to glimmer/learn new techs, or can you get them even if your slots are full? I assume for monster techs I'll have to unleash things to free up the tech slots on the gear, but for humans/ephemerals, I'm not sure if I need to be proactive about this or not.
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Apr 30, 2024 14:54
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Monster skills need an open slot, but normal glimmers do not - the new skill will be added to the list and you can use it for the rest of the fight, even if that gives you more skills than you could normally equip. Once the battle’s over the new skill goes back to the reserves and you need to equip it to keep using it.
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Apr 30, 2024 14:59
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Great, thanks. I was trying to keep a slot open last night but all I really did was learn some lessons about which techs I'd actually been relying on more than I thought I was for turn order purposes. 
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Apr 30, 2024 15:04
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Does anyone have good tips or a (japanese) wiki that kind of explains what I should do with the trade system? I'm rank 6 now and it feels like everything is a side/downgrade, investing more in it never returns anything good. Sometimes I snag something I haven't seen before, like those trial tickets for cleaning tickets, but no idea what to use them on
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Apr 30, 2024 16:09
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Dackel posted:Does anyone have good tips or a (japanese) wiki that kind of explains what I should do with the trade system? I'm rank 6 now and it feels like everything is a side/downgrade, investing more in it never returns anything good. Sometimes I snag something I haven't seen before, like those trial tickets for cleaning tickets, but no idea what to use them on If you have more of a resource then you'll ever use, side-grades are worth doing. Check to see if there's anything you can bid on that's expressly a good deal - sometimes you can get the boss items for 10 of something. 10 of something seems to have at least the chance to get something rarer than it.
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Apr 30, 2024 16:49
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I have used up all my extra equipments for trade (big regret on my earlier cleaning tickets being used up), everytime a resource is over 20 i trade it in. I always have 20 beast things for upgrades and 50 spiritshards on hand just in case of magic stone trade. I have tried putting 1 5 10 20 of a resource in and it was not ever worth it for me to try it again, which is exactly why I'm asking. What are these magical cutoffs for # or BR or "hidden item tiers" or whatnot
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Apr 30, 2024 17:01
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Oh - yeah, don't have those, sorry for the basic advice you knew already instead!
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Apr 30, 2024 17:21
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DNE posted:Oh - yeah, don't have those, sorry for the basic advice you knew already instead! It's all good, I appreciate it. Just the nature of Saga games where we're all knowledge hounds looking for scraps
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Apr 30, 2024 17:24
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Emerald Beyond JP wikis in progress: https://kamikouryaku.com/saga_eb/ https://altema.jp/sagaeb/ The english SaGa wiki discord is another resource with segmented spoiler sections https://discord.com/invite/QEUNvDM
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Apr 30, 2024 23:43
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Interesting that that second wiki recommends Tsunanori for newbies, Diva 5 and Bonnie & Formina for intermediate players, and Sigunas and Ameya for advanced players.
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May 1, 2024 00:20
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Whew ng+ wants to bring nearly everything over by default, even gear, but a reset on BR. I guess the game has a lot of confidence that the BR can scale very quickly. It must have a very high ceiling then hmm
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May 1, 2024 00:31
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Got dual-wielding finally, needs rank 3 Life Sprinkler and rank 3 Mega Thrust. The tech it gives is very strong! People are still in the dark on how to get the gun+sword tech and if it also needs a rank 3 tech then it might be pretty hard to figure out.
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May 1, 2024 01:10
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Little tip for the washing machine between worlds: If you use it to do your trading (and you get a free prompt after completing a world regardless of fight or not) you get a free item (Cleaning ticket or Dress Shirt). But if you trade 1 time, exit, get the item and talk to washing machine again you get a free item every time. Works for both Bidding and Shipping (actual trades, not setting a bid)
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May 1, 2024 01:22
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Is there a recommended starting character? Also: I never played Scarlet Grace so if this is similar to that, I'm unaware. Are there branching story paths? Looking around at how NG+ works it sounds like you're encouraged to play through each scenario multiple times to explore different paths--is that accurate?
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May 1, 2024 01:35
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 00:09 |
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Mido and Ameya both seemed like decent starter characters. The first time through each of their campaigns is truncated and more linear than some other characters. Mido gets a party of dolls who get new equipable skills by just fighting monsters for the first time, which is a bit simplified compared to the other races. Ameya has a more typical mix of party members on her first go.
lets hang out fucked around with this message at 01:47 on May 1, 2024 |
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May 1, 2024 01:44
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