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This thread is for both liberals and conservatives to make your posts about why it's a good thing that nazis be allowed to speak and march and spread their message with nothing more than some stern looks and sighs in response. Please be sure to post your anecdotes of antifa disrupting KKK marches and making liberals look bad. Make posts about how when you refuse to let a nazi speak you're just as bad as them. Be sure to talk about the 1st amendment and how that applies to groups that advocate exterminating minority groups. In here is a space for you to please explain to everyone very sensibly why the ideology that inevitably ends in genocide when allowed to fester in a nation is a good and important part of having a balanced political discourse in your country.   NOTE: This thread is for both liberals AND conservatives so please be sure not to get derailed into arguments about whatever dumb class traitor you support in your bourgeois election. Thank you. OP NOTE: please anyone talking to the liberals ITT dont admit to doing crimes even if it was against fascists jarofpiss has issued a correction as of 03:43 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 17:40
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here i'll start: "I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it!!"
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Jan 14, 2017 17:41
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Perhaps, instead of using violence against speech, you could counter it with speech instead. I'm sure you'll have the louder voice. Or, turn that violence against the power structure that you say protects those who hate, but I doubt you'll do something like that which requires actual work.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:43
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Seizure Meat posted:Perhaps, instead of using violence against speech, you could counter it with speech instead. I'm sure you'll have the louder voice. hmm this is an interesting take, but what if the ideology you're so rationally arguing against is fundamentally inseparable from violence itself? also what if that ideology operates outside the realm of rational fact based discourse and believes that by speaking they can create and mold reality itself?
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Jan 14, 2017 17:44
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jarofpiss posted:hmm this is an interesting take, but what if the ideology you're so rationally arguing against is fundamentally inseparable from violence itself? also what if that ideology operates outside the realm of rational fact based discourse and believes that by speaking they can create and mold reality itself? I dunno, maybe try it, instead of feeding into exactly what they desire at the base level, which is violence as you say.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:46
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There was this excellent satire piece in the Times, devestating, absolutely devestating
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Jan 14, 2017 17:47
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jarofpiss posted:here i'll start: "I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it!!" Here is the relevant txt: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. If you would like further reading about constitutional law, i'm sure it can be found since the text quoted above "The First Amendment" is pretty well known.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:49
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because when you prevent people from saying things in public they just say it in private instead where their views go completely unchallenged and grow more and more radical until it eventually all pops to the surface in a messy and undesirable way
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Jan 14, 2017 17:49
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jarofpiss posted:hmm this is an interesting take, but what if the ideology you're so rationally arguing against is fundamentally inseparable from violence itself? also what if that ideology operates outside the realm of rational fact based discourse and believes that by speaking they can create and mold reality itself? Speech isn't violence, and I'll never concede that it is.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:51
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logikv9 posted:There was this excellent satire piece in the Times, devestating, absolutely devestating i remember when all those moderate german press folks wrote all their satires that were like "can you believe all this crazy poo poo hitler is saying? the jews aren't doing this!!" and then the nazis totally fell apart and nobody had to go to europe to shoot them
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Jan 14, 2017 17:52
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50 Nazi's show up to protest, they do, no one else shows up, they go home. 50 Nazi's show up to protest, 500 show up to counter protest nonviolently, local news covers it and shows Nazi's being shouted down. 50 Nazi's show up to protest, 500 anti-fa attack them, get stabbed, break windows, riot cops move in with tear gas, national news covers it. Guess which of these 3 choices is the preferable one.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:53
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Dicky B posted:because when you prevent people from saying things in public they just say it in private instead where their views go completely unchallenged and grow more and more radical until it eventually all pops to the surface in a messy and undesirable way hard to build a broad based genocidal movement if you can't talk about it with the public though isn't it?
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Jan 14, 2017 17:53
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Antifa are retarded idiot babbies who won't admit they loving love violence and fighting, and need to rationalize their behavior with a thin veneer of a morally acceptable reason. They're all just enjoying the freedom and exhilaration of being a violent thug. Just admit it; you want to get into a fight at the punk show because its fun. Admit it, who cares. This whole 'oh well you see there are these, uhh, moral justifications for uhhh, facism and nazis, uhh, also racism' shut the gently caress up you worthless trash your violence has never done a single god drat thing to improve the lives of anyone, its post-facto self-aggrandizement and nothing more. I've been at Union protests where we've had to dump the antifa babies immediately because they'll psycho out at the first opportunity because all they want is a fist-fight. They just love violence and want to go jerk off over how awesome they were with their buddies after they get their adrenaline/endorphin rush, they don't stick around on pickets, they don't contribute money to campaigns, they don't go door to door, they just show up, take a crap in the street, roll around in it, and then go congratulate themselves over a bottle of Fireball or whatever hipster sugar liquor is in vogue. You're worthless trash and no movement will ever want you. Go jump off a bridge with your loving nazis buddies, the two of you can't seem to loving live without each other anyway.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:55
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Seizure Meat posted:50 Nazi's show up to protest, they do, no one else shows up, they go home. #3
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Jan 14, 2017 17:56
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Laphroaig posted:Antifa are retarded idiot babbies who won't admit they loving love violence and fighting, and need to rationalize their behavior with a thin veneer of a morally acceptable reason. They're all just enjoying the freedom and exhilaration of being a violent thug. Just admit it; you want to get into a fight at the punk show because its fun. Admit it, who cares. This whole 'oh well you see there are these, uhh, moral justifications for uhhh, facism and nazis, uhh, also racism' shut the gently caress up you worthless trash your violence has never done a single god drat thing to improve the lives of anyone, its post-facto self-aggrandizement and nothing more. lol im not in antifa
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Jan 14, 2017 17:56
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Congrats on giving the Nazis a national platform!
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Jan 14, 2017 17:57
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antifa are young punk kids that want to fight and if they want to direct that at fascist demonstrations im very very okay with that because i think all young people need a constructive outlet for their energy
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Jan 14, 2017 17:58
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liberal position on cancer: "ignore it and it will just go away"
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Jan 14, 2017 17:59
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jarofpiss posted:liberal position on cancer: "ignore it and it will just go away" Effective deflection.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:59
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jarofpiss posted:antifa are young punk kids that want to fight and if they want to direct that at fascist demonstrations im very very okay with that because i think all young people need a constructive outlet for their energy they just need to go fight for fun, who cares, they show up at everything and they ruin it because they're giant babies - I wish it was 'young' but is 35+ young now? Do we have a permanent worthless baby class of people in the US, I say, posting on this dead gay comedy subforum
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Jan 14, 2017 17:59
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Seizure Meat posted:Congrats on giving the Nazis a national platform! Hillary already did tho 
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Jan 14, 2017 18:00
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Here, you want a medical version? "I keep picking at this scab and it won't loving heal! GAAAAAH!" *picks until it bleeds more*
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Jan 14, 2017 18:00
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it might be helpful for me to read about all of those many fascist movements that didn't have to be ended by shooting the fascists but instead with some stern words and tough love
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Jan 14, 2017 18:03
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jarofpiss posted:hard to build a broad based genocidal movement if you can't talk about it with the public though isn't it?
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Jan 14, 2017 18:08
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Laphroaig posted:they just need to go fight for fun, who cares, they show up at everything and they ruin it because they're giant babies - I wish it was 'young' but is 35+ young now? Do we have a permanent worthless baby class of people in the US, I say, posting on this dead gay comedy subforum antifa are all young anarchists or leninists in my experience and they really have no place at any demonstration that isn't specifically anti fascist and expects counter protesters or agitators. this thread isn't about how antifa doesn't do campaign work (lol) because i also would not want them on my union picket line.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:09
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law enforcement should have broad authority to stop any kind of political assembly at their discretion just to be safe, gotta make sure fascism can't get it's roots anywhere 
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Jan 14, 2017 18:10
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can someone please tell me when it's okay to shoot a fascist? like do we have to wait for them to stage a coup or is there an earlier point in time when it would be good to shoot a fascist?
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Jan 14, 2017 18:10
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jarofpiss posted:it might be helpful for me to read about all of those many fascist movements that didn't have to be ended by shooting the fascists but instead with some stern words and tough love It might be helpful for me to read about all of those many fascists movements that were stopped by shooting the fascists?? What's the counterfactual here, we had World War 2, is your entire argument literally "What if someone... HAD SHOT HITLER??" 
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Jan 14, 2017 18:12
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Laphroaig posted:It might be helpful for me to read about all of those many fascists movements that were stopped by shooting the fascists?? What's the counterfactual here, we had World War 2, is your entire argument literally "What if someone... HAD SHOT HITLER??" someone did shoot hitler!~
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Jan 14, 2017 18:14
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Laphroaig posted:Antifa are retarded idiot babbies who won't admit they loving love violence and fighting, and need to rationalize their behavior with a thin veneer of a morally acceptable reason. They're all just enjoying the freedom and exhilaration of being a violent thug. Just admit it; you want to get into a fight at the punk show because its fun. Admit it, who cares. This whole 'oh well you see there are these, uhh, moral justifications for uhhh, facism and nazis, uhh, also racism' shut the gently caress up you worthless trash your violence has never done a single god drat thing to improve the lives of anyone, its post-facto self-aggrandizement and nothing more. Violence is badass you pussy
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Jan 14, 2017 18:16
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Fascism is intimidation in much the same way as burning a cross in someone's front lawn, therefore bashing the fash is a public service
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Jan 14, 2017 18:17
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The idea that the left has the power or numbers to "silence" the right is a bit silly, the right is winning basically everywhere except for cultural cloisters like Ivy League campuses and particular internet spaces the left is in danger of being silenced and is generally unaware of how badly it is losing
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Jan 14, 2017 18:19
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LinYutang posted:The idea that the left has the power or numbers to "silence" the right is a bit silly, the right is winning basically everywhere except for cultural cloisters like Ivy League campuses and particular internet spaces *furrows brow harder*
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Jan 14, 2017 18:19
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jarofpiss posted:someone did shoot hitler!~ Yeah but it was Hitler, so we get into a horrible oroborus of Hitler being the only one brave and strong enough to kill Hitler Plutonis posted:Violence is badass you pussy Loveable Plutonis, I said that - just get into a fight because its fun, who cares. Do it for the visceral thrill. Don't make weird excuses. LinYutang posted:The idea that the left has the power or numbers to "silence" the right is a bit silly, the right is winning basically everywhere except for cultural cloisters like Ivy League campuses and particular internet spaces The idiot woke hellfucker Hillarymen left maybe, but basically every union guy I've talked to about it is fully cognizant of how they've gotten totally hosed by the Democrats getting in bed with late state capitalism.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:20
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Laphroaig posted:Yeah but it was Hitler, so we get into a horrible oroborus of Hitler being the only one brave and strong enough to kill Hitler well i mean the reds were coming to do it so he just beat them to the punch because he was a sore loser
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Jan 14, 2017 18:20
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mannerup posted:law enforcement should have broad authority to stop any kind of political assembly at their discretion just to be safe, gotta make sure fascism can't get it's roots anywhere My soultuon is that any time Nazis or Third World Maoists organize the Cops are given extreme latitude for what actions they take to eliminate them. Up to including mass use of firearms.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:22
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jarofpiss posted:well i mean the reds were coming to do it so he just beat them to the punch because he was a sore loser My brain is slightly broken because I can't think of this outside of the context of that manga where they go to the moon to play mahjong vs Hitler - The Legend of Koizumi - where hitler goes Super Aryan to win at mahjong battles for the fate of earth
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Jan 14, 2017 18:25
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Also the thread title should read "centrist libs and repubs talk about why censorship is actually good itt"
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Jan 14, 2017 18:25
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maybe a problem is that leftists atm focus on policing ideological allies that agree with them 95% of the way since shaming nazis doesn't work all that well
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Jan 14, 2017 18:26
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LinYutang posted:maybe a problem is that leftists atm focus on policing ideological allies that agree with them 95% of the way i think your percentages may be off because i only shame bad bad liberals on the parts of their ideology that are explicitly counterrevolutionary
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Jan 14, 2017 18:28
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