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  SPOILER ZONE HEREThis is not the non-spoiler thread. What we know You should travel HOME to the house to see the real ending. "Years later", Thor comes knocking on the door, cut to credits. Post-credits, Atreus wakes up from his dream, and the game resumes. There is also ... something else for you behind the house, left side around. (This GamesRadar article is excellent.)   Atreus is Loki born to Giantess Laufey the Just and Kratos who conveniently fits the very loose description of Fárbauti who is barely mentioned in the Edda. Neither Atreus nor Kratos knew of her heritage.  Leviathan is likely a reference to Loki's Lævateinn (Hævateinn): Læva-teinn, Norse for Boomstick, or, well, "damage-twig", which is a kenning referring to Loki's mistletoe arrow used to kill Baldur. (Think of kennings as metaphors meeting Cockney rhyming slang.) The Witch is Freya, the Vanir goddess. "Frigg" was her Æsir alter ego created by the Æsir to take credit for all the contributions of her Vanir counterpart. We don't know whether her father is Njord nor her Brother Freyr in this universe.  Baldur is dead. For now. The Æsir did try bringing him back from Hel once in Norse mythology (and failed, because Loki). As are Thor's failson Paul Brothers, Modi and Magni. RIP in Brohelheim. Týr visited other cultures. The Giants foretold what happened and what will happen; their prophecy's protagonist appears to be Atreus, not Kratos.  A tapestry in Jötunheim suggests Kratos will be worse for wear, and it will relate to Atreus somehow. It's very vague, annoyingly. The ending of God of War ushers in the coming of Ragnarok with such omens as the Fimbulwinter. More specifically, Fimbulwinter begins as you kill Baldur. The Fimbulwinter is prophesized to last three winters; Atreus's dream in the ending is set "Years Later" where Thor shows up. That's probably not a coincidence. This also means Ragnarok is likely to begin in GoW 2/5, not 3/6. Why haven't Atreus nor Kratos aged "Years Later"? Because it's a dream Atreus has, not a fast-forward. These are the lyrics for the main theme and explain a lot:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNdCq_y7jW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo9En3DWC6o CHRISTOPHER JUDGE DOES SAYS INDEED. Unanswered questions Who blew the horn? (Probably Baldur tbf, I don't think this is meant to be a central mystery.) How did Faye die? In a way she saw was coming since she asked Kratos to cut down marked trees. Giants *can* die of old age, and with neither Kratos nor Atreus harbouring any grudge, there may be no foul play. (Then why the gently caress didn't the devs just loving tell us so ...) How did the Giants of Jötunheim die? We don't know, but it probably didn't help that the Guardian of Jötunheim AKA Faye took a sabbatical. Although she may have done so after the fact. As with Faye, the Giants may have died of old age - but they seem to have died in very melodramatic ways; unless you're the last person to eat it, someone else should still be able to bury you, no? Mimir also tells a story of how Freya, she of good intentions and epic gently caress-ups, smuggled Thor to Jötunheim once after which he treated the locals to a game of whack-a-mole. The story suggests he only commited some light genocide, so this is unlikely to have wiped out all Giants. What other gods should we expect except for Odin and Thor? Wouldn't be surprised if Týr showed up at some point, as his disappearance is incredibly vague. Who's the Helbirb? Other questions Are we the baddies? The Æsir are canonically assholes with Thor as a Hall of Religious Fame rear end in a top hat, but all the good gods are conspicuously absent with the exception of Baldur who's kind of a dick. The game appears to frame the Æsir as the baddies and Kratos x BOI as the (anti)heroes. Loki's mercurial temper is a concern, though. What are we to make of Freya? Freya is, to repeat, amazing at loving things up. To recapitulate: 1. To bring peace between the Æsir and Vanir, she married Odin and ended up giving away all the knowledge of the Vanir. 2. To mend fences with the Giants, she smuggled Thor to Jötunheim after which he massacred the joint. (As told by Mimir in he boat.) 3. To protect her son, she ruined his life by depriving him of all feelings. Who knows what she will gently caress up next, don't underestimate her. With friends like her, who needs enemies. But muh Norse canon? Okay, so Kratos being Fárbauti makes sense since Fárbauti is so poorly described to the point where he might even be a literal person.  Loki is supposed to have three children in Norse mythology, but we only see one: the World Serpent. Jörmungandr, however, is not from *this* timeline, but from a future timeline where Thor literally clocks him through time and space to where (or when) he is now. Furthermore, Týr has both his arms in this universe when the Fenris Wolf is supposed to have chomped one of them off, so Wolfie doesn't seem to be part of canon - or it's just not tied down by the Æsir. However, Loki *does* go on about wanting to turn into a wolf, and Loki was an infamous shapeshifter ... Hel is most likely the non-anthropomorphic realm in this universe, not someone presiding over the underworld in Niflheim. Squirrel? Squirrel! What happens next? Ragnarok, natch, but: Source posted:"The Greek games were the Greek era of God of War," game director Cory Barlog told Game Informer. "Moving on, the next mythological belief system he interacts with became the Norse era of God of War. But we may end up going on to the Egyptian era and the Mayan era and so on and so forth." Will GoW get DLC before a sequel? Oh yeah, we also owe Mimir a body. ufarn fucked around with this message at 12:37 on May 9, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 18:27
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This isn't a direct GoW spoiler, but interesting and relevant enough, so here's the Norse Mythology family tree:
GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 18:53
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Tyr lost an arm? So does that line up with the Kratos being Tyr theory? Since the figure (that everyone assumes to be Kratos) we see Atreus holding in the last panel as he births the world serpent is missing an arm and possibly a leg
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Apr 25, 2018 19:01
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I have almost no knowledge of this mythology, but thought Loki wasn't a nice/great god and his true colors were showing when he was being a little poo poo in game, leading me to assume that Kratos is going to eventually kill him with the foreshadowing that Kratos killed his father in his past and he killed Freya's son leading to some eventual confrontation of the cycle he's trying to end. I didn't really understand the panel of Kratos dead/wounded at the end, but maybe it was Loki's fault he got put into that position?
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Apr 25, 2018 19:05
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The snake in the drawing being the "birthing" of Jörmungandr makes the most sense. Although there's the issue of time paradox with two present, regardless of whether one is knocked back in time. I also thought about Kratos as Týr, especially wrt the missing two limbs, but having it be two limbs instead of just the one makes that, well, vague. The limbs look more undrawn than dismembered to me. But again, vague. One possibility is that Atreus chomps off KraTýr's arm - and leg while he's at it - in his wolf (Fenrir) form and subsequently spawns Jörmungandr.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:29
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That or Atreus gets into a relationship after the years pass and has three kids.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:43
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The game is very light in killing great gods. I hope for the next game we kill Thor or a Fenrir or other cool big monsters. Edit: Thanks for all the norse mythos lore. Is great  Edit: From the PS4 thread. Tei fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 19:45
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Mandrel posted:Tyr lost an arm? So does that line up with the Kratos being Tyr theory? Since the figure (that everyone assumes to be Kratos) we see Atreus holding in the last panel as he births the world serpent is missing an arm and possibly a leg Yes, Tyr lost an arm. Or hand, more specifically. Loki had several animal children (the World Serpent being one of them, hence Mimir saying that the serpent mentioned BOY seeming familiar), one of whom being Fenrir, the giant wolf. Thor & Friends got word of a prophecy saying that Fenrir would gently caress them all up during Ragnarok, so they decided to tie him up to imprison him. He was too strong to subdue by brute force alone so they tricked him into playing a game of "break free" from stronger and stronger bonds as a test of strength, the prize for victory being the bragging rights for being the strongest creature in all the land. Nothing with which they bound Fenrir worked. He broke free from everything, from rope to the heaviest chains the gods could find. Eventually they got hold of a magic rope and tried to get Fenrir to break free from that, but he was clever and sensed something was awry. Fenrir wanted a gesture of trustworthiness, so said he'd only agree if one of the gods put their hands in his mouth until he was able to break free, at which point he'd let go. Eventually Tyr volunteered, which was especially poignant as while none of the other gods liked Fenrir, Tyr treated the wolf like his own dog and was always wrestling and playing around with him. Fenrir held Tyr's hand in his mouth and let the group tie him up with the magic rope. No matter Fenrir's struggle, he could not break free. After the gods were confident their plan had worked, they revealed their intention for Fenrir all along. In Fenrir's anger from the betrayal, he clamped his jaws down as hard as he could, severing Tyr's hand. The wolf then cursed the gods, saying he was once their ally, but no longer. Tyr did not speak for the entire journey home. in short... Neil Gaiman's book is awesome and you should all read it. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 19:56
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A nice tidbit about Fárbauti - Loki's father in norse mythology. His name in old norse means Cruel or Dangerous Striker and according to Wikipedia his name and character are thought to have been inspired by the observation of the natural phenomena surrounding the appearance of wildfire. If Fárbauti refers to "lightning", the figure would appear to be part of an early nature myth alluding to wildfire (Loki) being produced by lightning (Fárbauti) striking dry tinder such as leaves (Laufey). With Kratos being a bit of a cruel striker himself, him being Loki's father fits surprisingly well with the mythology, considering he's a video game character created in 2005 to wreak havoc on a completely different pantheon.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:12
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How does Kratos end up in Midgard? Should I watch a “God of War III all cinematics“ YouTube video to find out?
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Apr 25, 2018 20:19
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ufarn posted:There is also ... something else for you behind the house, left side around. I feel like I'm missing something here.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:21
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GreatGreen posted:How does Kratos end up in Midgard? Should I watch a “God of War III all cinematics“ YouTube video to find out? I assume he walked.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:I assume he walked. Sorry, I should have been more specific. Presumably, “Midgard“ is an entire realm, complete with its own creation story, pantheon of its own gods, place amongst the cosmos, and afterlife mythos. All these things seem to be wholly incompatible with the Greek pantheon, creation story, and afterlife structure. In the world of God of War, is all this poo poo just intermixed? Because if so, it would be just tops if after the current adventure is said and done, Kratos walks his happy rear end over to the Middle East and kicks the poo poo out of every character in the Judeo Christian mythos too. Just think of the bored American housewife backlash. 
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Apr 25, 2018 21:20
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Mimir claimed that if you "wander north enough times you end up here" and is literally Puck from a Midsummer Night's Dream, so either he super understated his wandering or metaphysics of GoW are a little odd and extremely localized geographically.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:34
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GreatGreen posted:Sorry, I should have been more specific. Presumably, “Midgard“ is an entire realm, complete with its own creation story, pantheon of its own gods, place amongst the cosmos, and afterlife mythos. All these things seem to be wholly incompatible with the Greek pantheon, creation story, and afterlife structure. Midgard is just the normal world. So just assume poo poo be weird.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:37
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GreatGreen posted:How does Kratos end up in Midgard? Should I watch a “God of War III all cinematics“ YouTube video to find out? The first of the Lost Pages says he "washed up upon [Midgard's] shores" which could mean any number of things. I would have argued that at the end of GoW III he just rolls off the cliff where he impales himself into the sea and straight to Midgard but that doesn't explain how he was able to recover the Blades of Chaos.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:43
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SettingSun posted:The first of the Lost Pages says he "washed up upon [Midgard's] shores" which could mean any number of things. I would have argued that at the end of GoW III he just rolls off the cliff where he impales himself into the sea and straight to Midgard but that doesn't explain how he was able to recover the Blades of Chaos. My bet is that they're just retconning the names as "these are what he had at the end of GoW3", not "he was hiding his old ares blades under his bed in olympus and made a side trip so he could hide them under his new bed in midgard" alternatively, it was one last "gently caress you" from athena where she took hers back and gave him his old family-killing weapons to enjoy in his last moments, while we were watching the gow3 credits scroll
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Apr 25, 2018 21:48
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I don't know if this is a reference to something else in mythology, but Mimir's head being reanimated and then spitting out a shitload of gross worms reminded me of the same thing happening with Merlin's head in an old issue of Hellblazer. Did anyone else who read it notice the same thing? Seemed like such an odd little detail that I figure it either has to be an homage or a reference to something else.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:49
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GreatGreen posted:Sorry, I should have been more specific. Presumably, “Midgard“ is an entire realm, complete with its own creation story, pantheon of its own gods, place amongst the cosmos, and afterlife mythos. All these things seem to be wholly incompatible with the Greek pantheon, creation story, and afterlife structure. It seems to be intermixed. I think we’re meant to assume each mythos concept of “the world” only encompasses its respective region? Or honestly it’s all mythology, so it adds something to keep it kind of vague
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Apr 25, 2018 21:50
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GreatGreen posted:Because if so, it would be just tops if after the current adventure is said and done, Kratos walks his happy rear end over to the Middle East and kicks the poo poo out of every character in the Judeo Christian mythos too. Can't wait for this bad boy to be a boss fight. 
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Apr 25, 2018 21:50
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I feel like I'm missing something here. ufarn fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 21:51
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GreatGreen posted:Yes, Tyr lost an arm. Or hand, more specifically. is it just the norse myths but told by him or are they part of some series he wrote?
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Apr 25, 2018 21:54
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Is it ever explained who blew the horn while Atreus was sick? If not i'm going to assume it's some time travel fuckery from a future game since they said they worked out the whole story ahead of time and then put references to future games in this one.
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Apr 25, 2018 22:09
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Thank Odin for this thread, because I've wanted to talk about it . So, quick refresher of the steps toward Ragnarok. 1. Baldur is killed by Loki with a mistletoe dart. (More specifically Loki tricks Blind Hod into throwing it as all the other gods are laughing and throwing things at Baldur but they just harmlessly bounce off him) 2. The gods kill Hod (guess we can skip this step) 3. The gods strike a bargain with Hel (Loki's daughter). If everything... the gods, men, the giants, the trees, the rocks, literally everything, mourns for poor Baldur then she will return him to the Aesir. The gods ask everything, and they all mourn Baldur. Except for one rear end in a top hat giant that hates Baldur and is glad he's dead. That rear end in a top hat giant? Loki in disguise. 4. Loki is discovered to have been the architect of Baldur's death AND the rear end in a top hat giant. The gods can't kill Loki because of a blood oath they swore that he will always be kin to Odin. However, the gods can kill Loki's wife and children as punishment. Loki is bound to a rock and tortured for the rest of his days. The bindings are the entrails of his own children. (the ones that aren't Jormungandr and Hel) (Loki's writhing is what causes earthquakes on Midgard) 5. Loki breaks free, gathers up every soul in Helheim, every frost giant, every fire giant, and all the evils and all his children and all sorts of poo poo as an army. Odin gathers every warrior in Valhalla and every god and everything loyal to the gods and a massive war begins. 6. During the battle Thor kills Jormungandr (the world serpent). With its last breath Jormungandr kills Thor, drowning him in its venom. 7. Frey is killed by Surtr, chief of the fire giants, ruler of Muspelheim. 8. Odin is killed by Fenrir. Odin's son Vidar kills Fenrir. 9. In the end Loki and Heimdall will kill each other. Loki laughs because he has won. Heimdall laughs because he can see the future. 10. Surtr plunges his sword into the ground, destroying all things. 11. The surviving Aesir, Vidar, Valdi, Magni and Modi (guess we'll skip them), and Baldur (free from Hel), return to Asgard with a human couple that hid under the roots of Yggdrasil, and they recreate the world anew as they reset the chess pieces on Odin's board. ---------------- So there you have your next two games. Thor can be the antagonist of part 2 and the game ends with Loki bound and tortured, driving Kratos insane. And 3 can just be straight up Ragnarok. There's so much "a wizard did it" in Norse mythology that you can seamlessly weave Kratos into it (like Loki's dad being an unknown-ish guy, how Loki escapes his torture, etc.) I really can't wait for the set piece where Kratos and Jormungandr wail on Thor and they kill each other. And Odin fighting a wolf that's bigger than the sun. Greek mythology doesn't have poo poo on how epic Norse mythology is.
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Apr 25, 2018 22:13
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Before release I wasn't really planning on getting this game. I kinda grew a serious distaste for over the top violence and Kratos never was a memorable character to me outside "haha he's a huge rear end in a top hat that sure is a character trait." That didn't stop me from hearing about the game though. I heard that Kratos had a son and a few podcasts talked about how him and his son were bonding over the years and they loved each other and that colored me going in. When that wasn't the case I mistook what I heard other people saying as what promo material said so I was super confused as to why they didn't know each other at all (as the main thread heard me complaining about early on). At the end of the post I said "Man if he's actually Loki and this is some kind of trick then I guess that makes sense." and left it at that. Then the rest of the game happened and I was pretty happy and dropped my theory because nah it didn't make any sense anymore. AND THEN HE SAYS HIS NAME IS LOKI AND I NEARLY DIED. Like good gosh what the hell is going on and why did the story have to end there. Whyy
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Apr 25, 2018 22:37
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Was it ever shown clearly what Freya's urine blessing thing applied to the back of Kratos' neck did? At some point the blessing gets rubbed off to Atreus' concern but Kratos dismisses it anyway. What did it actually do? I must have missed the specifics. edit: I'm straining to recall that maybe it helped to conceal Kratos and BOY from the three guys tracking them, and when the blessing was worn off, they encountered each other shortly after.
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Apr 25, 2018 22:58
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Was it ever shown clearly what Freya's urine blessing thing applied to the back of Kratos' neck did? At some point the blessing gets rubbed off to Atreus' concern but Kratos dismisses it anyway. What did it actually do? I must have missed the specifics. Yeah it's so the gods can't see them and won't know where they are. Dumb rear end in a top hat club starts pestering you more once it's gone.
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Apr 25, 2018 23:04
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Was it ever shown clearly what Freya's urine blessing thing applied to the back of Kratos' neck did? At some point the blessing gets rubbed off to Atreus' concern but Kratos dismisses it anyway. What did it actually do? I must have missed the specifics. That’s pretty much it exactly. I think it was a portable version of the protection spell that hid their woods that Kratos broke at the start of the game by chopping down the tree. It hides them from Baldur & crew.
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Apr 25, 2018 23:05
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Dapper_Swindler posted:is it just the norse myths but told by him or are they part of some series he wrote? He basically explains in the book that actual Norse mythology is just a hodgepodge of different stories, mostly told orally through the ages, almost none of which are "officially" codified. However, he grew up hearing these stories and did a ton of research into them in his adult life and the book is his best interpretation of all the information he researched. So the book, which is basically a collection of short stories, isn't just stuff he made up. He took all the Norse myths he was able to research and put them together in the best way he knew how.
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Apr 25, 2018 23:05
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 Spoiler. After killing the last Valkyria: Odin was slaving the valkyria, and the queen used these vaults to store them to stop them from being used by odin. Until she herself was corrupted. They believe Freya is their true queen. So can become Freya personal army at some point.
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Apr 25, 2018 23:24
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GreatGreen posted:He basically explains in the book that actual Norse mythology is just a hodgepodge of different stories, mostly told orally through the ages, almost none of which are "officially" codified. However, he grew up hearing these stories and did a ton of research into them in his adult life and the book is his best interpretation of all the information he researched. Take, for example, Fenrir. In German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, and Icelandic stories you get that Loki was his dad, he bites off Tyr's hands, he's bound until Ragnarok, etc. In Neil Gaiman's (excellent) book you get the whole picture by having the weird contradictions tossed out and finally there's a proper narrative story about where Fenrir came from, why he was bound, how Tyr lost his hand, what becomes of Fenrir, and his role in Ragnarok. No single source (outside of reading basically every Wikipedia page on the Norse myths) had ever put them all in one place. This time as an actual story with a beginning and an end. It doesn't contain EVERY story, but it hits 80% of the major plot points from the birth, death, and rebirth of the cosmos. It also has the single best telling of the story of the mead of poetry. Everyone should buy the hell out of Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology.
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Apr 25, 2018 23:59
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Also, Greek mythology was painstakingly recorded. The Odyssey and The Iliad are massive books from a thousand years before the Vikings. Meanwhile the only actual hard copies of Norse mythology are the Poetic Edda and Prose Edda, both were cobbled together from oral stories. Then there's engravings and whatnot floating around. In hindsight it's actually pretty amazing that no one ever thought to take all the stories, usually written in a bullet point format like "here's the exploits of Thor" and turn it into something more like a Bible, with an arc from day one of the cosmos, to all the poo poo the gods did because they're bored assholes, to the big finale. You can pretty much toss all the other (usually horribly written) books in the trash now. He did a hell of a job.
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Apr 26, 2018 00:11
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lmao, the mods finally got to the thread title.
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Apr 26, 2018 00:46
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ufarn posted:There’s a Secret Chamber when you clear out the Helweeds and follow the path up. Ah. I was expecting something hidden literally in the backyard. BOY makes a snarky comment about you still not being able to figure out how to open the thing when you pass it during the tutorial
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Apr 26, 2018 01:16
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I only got 4 out of the 5 axe upgrades. Does the last upgrade change the look of the axe or is axe upgrade 3 still the finalized look?
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Apr 26, 2018 01:27
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GreatGreen posted:I only got 4 out of the 5 axe upgrades. Does the last upgrade change the look of the axe or is axe upgrade 3 still the finalized look? You have to buy the final upgrade material for both weapons from the dwarves after completing Niflheim and the first tier of Muspelheim. And the final look is real minor. I think the axe gets a little topper and the Blades get some jewels.
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Apr 26, 2018 01:29
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1stGear posted:You have to buy the final upgrade material for both weapons from the dwarves after completing Niflheim and the first tier of Muspelheim. gently caress I was wondering about this. I haven't done the upgrades because I figured they were some final reward after Muspelheim and Niflheim. I guess they kind of are but buying them never occurred to me.
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Apr 26, 2018 01:31
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I still can't tell the difference; I can see the glowing icons on the weapons, but they don't seem to match the number of upgrades nor "Mark of the Dwarves" or whatever those are called. Maybe that's my non-Pro at work.
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Apr 26, 2018 01:41
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1stGear posted:You have to buy the final upgrade material for both weapons from the dwarves after completing Niflheim and the first tier of Muspelheim. Cool, thanks! ufarn posted:I still can't tell the difference; I can see the glowing icons on the weapons, but they don't seem to match the number of upgrades nor "Mark of the Dwarves" or whatever those are called. Maybe that's my non-Pro at work. The glowing icons on your axe and the blades represent which runic powers you currently have equipped. They don’t reflect the upgrade level graphics. But yeah, the reason I asked was because I couldn’t tell the difference between axe upgrade 3 and 4. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Apr 26, 2018 |
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Apr 26, 2018 01:58
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:
My personal theory is the tapestry pointing to Kratos dying is the ending of GoW2(potentially via Thor before Atreus and Jormungadr kill him) and 3 starts with teen Atreus/Loki storming Valhalla(because Kratos) to get him back. Whether or not it follow the mythos it’d but such a great set piece I WANT to see it. Retro42 fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 26, 2018 |
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Apr 26, 2018 02:11
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