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Tamatoa seemed pretty confident in who he was 
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Nov 30, 2016 00:05
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He's historically accurate. That's all we can ask for in life.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:21
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andipossess posted:Also, there's a pretty big fascination on giving everything a name,. The primary characters are all named (which makes sense), but so are Moana's parents, the village itself, the pig, the chicken, the race of coconut monsters, the realm of monsters, the giant enemy crab, and the two forms of the goddess. I don't think there are quite as many named things in other Disney princess movies. The pig's name was just "pig" in Hawaiian, so that might not really count, but you're right. The Lion King was similar. Lots of named characters places and things.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:30
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andipossess posted:I'm not a movie analysis type, but this sort of touches on one of the themes I got from the story. It wasn't so much about being true to who you are but remembering or realizing who you are. The islanders, Maui, the goddess, and even Moana all have to (re)discover a crucial aspect of themselves. For the islanders, it's that they are meant to be voyagers (which Moana was annoyingly insistent on). For Maui it's that his powers aren't what make Maui Maui which allows him to be willing to sacrifice his powers to save Moana. For the goddess, without her heart, she becomes a lava monster thing? I dunno, but that segment is clearly still about her regaining her identity as an island shaped like a sleeping woman. How exactly you dealt with this varied a lot place to place, but Gell argued the particular examples he cited were either multiplying (via tattoos segmenting yourself or naming all your different body parts) or closing yourself (covering your most spiritually vulnerable points, such as tattooing the small of your back). The idea in both cases is basically that someone with strong boundaries running over and inside themselves is safer from reverting into cosmic mush and uncertainty than someone who's just a blank slate. IF I'm remembering any of this accurately, and IF Gell had a valid argument in the first place, then MAYBE that means your theorized theme is growing out of something specifically Polynesian-sourced that could be broken down as: "It's important to know what and who everything is, or everything starts falling apart." Mind you, that's three maybes deep. I would love it if someone could tell me if any/all of that is nonsense or not.
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Nov 30, 2016 02:05
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andipossess posted:I'm not a movie analysis type, but this sort of touches on one of the themes I got from the story. It wasn't so much about being true to who you are but remembering or realizing who you are. The islanders, Maui, the goddess, and even Moana all have to (re)discover a crucial aspect of themselves. For the islanders, it's that they are meant to be voyagers (which Moana was annoyingly insistent on). For Maui it's that his powers aren't what make Maui Maui which allows him to be willing to sacrifice his powers to save Moana. For the goddess, without her heart, she becomes a lava monster thing? I dunno, but that segment is clearly still about her regaining her identity as an island shaped like a sleeping woman. This is a good point and distinction and you are correct. The message is more about remembering/realizing who you are and honoring your roots. "Who are you? Be who you are." Is really simplifying it. It's important that one of the messages from Moana seems to be very pro-tradition. Moana's tribe abandons their old voyager traditions and Moana rediscovers it and glorifies it.
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Nov 30, 2016 04:53
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It's been a week, Moana is still mediocre but You're Welcome is a real earbug
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Dec 1, 2016 07:18
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tin can made man posted:It's been a week, Moana is still mediocre but You're Welcome is a real earbug The most important thing I learned from Moana is that The Rock can rap. I didn't think it was mediocre but I'm sure your complaints and assessments are legit and we just have different tastes.
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Dec 1, 2016 07:53
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Jenner posted:It's important that one of the messages from Moana seems to be very pro-tradition. Moana's tribe abandons their old voyager traditions and Moana rediscovers it and glorifies it. This bothered me a little I admit. Maybe I'm misremembering but when they were doing the flashback to the voyagers it looked as if they did a "we voyage, find a new island, colonize, and the next generation goes out and voyages to a new island" but at the ending it seemed like they were ALL going off? Am I just misremembering and her dad stayed behind or did they really just take "we're voyagers" to mean "time to ditch this lovely island, suckers!"
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Dec 1, 2016 19:26
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ImpAtom posted:This bothered me a little I admit. Maybe I'm misremembering but when they were doing the flashback to the voyagers it looked as if they did a "we voyage, find a new island, colonize, and the next generation goes out and voyages to a new island" but at the ending it seemed like they were ALL going off? Am I just misremembering and her dad stayed behind or did they really just take "we're voyagers" to mean "time to ditch this lovely island, suckers!" Nah her dad was definitely with them. I interpreted that as more of a "let's make a totally fresh start" than anything else
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Dec 1, 2016 23:15
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nah, part of the song was about them coming back. It seemed it was more that they sent out colonies with navigators to find new islands then the navigators and boats would return home to get more colonists for another colony
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Dec 2, 2016 07:02
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Random thoughts time! I loved this even though story-wise it hits many familiar Disney notes. It just does it all so beautifully that I couldn't help but enjoy it. Loved that there was no love interest and how it continued the recent Disney trend of making fun of their own tropes. Music was superb, and luckily the songs are complex enough that hopefully one of them will become the next "Let It Go." Art direction was top notch, the whole thing was beautiful. I thought I would find Maui annoying but he wasn't. Disney's recent films join Pixar in expertly walking the line between "too serious" and "too goofy". I only really had two complaints: the chicken - yes, I know it's there to hold the interest of the youngest viewers, but it seemed like the film couldn't go 5 minutes without cutting to it for a quick joke. Second complaint, why coconut creatures? The decision to make them goofy creatures felt disconnected from the rest of the film, on top of the sequence itself already being a bit superfluous. However, I do like that there were no human villains.
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Dec 2, 2016 08:04
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sweetmercifulcrap posted:I only really had two complaints: the chicken - yes, I know it's there to hold the interest of the youngest viewers, but it seemed like the film couldn't go 5 minutes without cutting to it for a quick joke. Second complaint, why coconut creatures? The decision to make them goofy creatures felt disconnected from the rest of the film, on top of the sequence itself already being a bit superfluous. However, I do like that there were no human villains. Heihei is the hero Maui wishes he could be <  >And yeah that part felt off. I wonder if it would have been better if more of the movie/journey had been in the realm of monsters and they were in there as a roadblock to getting through it
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Dec 3, 2016 02:40
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This movie was awesome. Easily better than Frozen. The music, unsurprisingly, was awesome. I'm amazed at Lin Manuel Miranda's ability to write a classic David Bowie song (Shiny). And I wonder if they asked him to perform the song before he died. Anyways, Jermaine from Flight of the Concords was awesome.
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Dec 3, 2016 05:08
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I notice Lin's version of You're Welcome has a cool quick rap bit that Dwayne didn't do: Look at that me, mini-Maui, Just tickity-tapping, singing and scratching, flippin and snapping, people are clapping, hearing me rapping, bring the chorus back in... Dwayne's version just goes Look at that me, mini-Maui, just tickity-tapping, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, heyyyy....
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Dec 3, 2016 14:56
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/\/\ I'll have to listen to the movie version again... I could have sworn The Rock did the rap.
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Dec 3, 2016 15:16
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Lin-Manuel Miranda's got a demo version on the soundtrack. edit: ^^I misread your post entirely. ThePlague-Daemon fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 15:58
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Jenner posted:/\/\ There's a rap section that starts "Honestly, I could go on and on..." which is in both, but Lin's one has the extra fast bit which Dwayne just goes "Ha Ha HA HA Heeyyy" over instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI3E11_Im7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyv0ZlW0yS0 Okay, it's not in Lin's full demo version either, he only sings it in the cut with Jordan Fisher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JythPfPjJcQ Ravel fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:09
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This movie is great and I think it'll stand the test of time but I'm more blown away by the soundtrack. Lin Manuel Miranda's music is so fun to dissect, he's a very clever lyricist. He's like a hybrid between Alan Menken and Stephen Sondheim. He's songs are usually more complex than Menken's but like Menken (and unlike Sondheim) he can still write catchy tunes that are easily hummable. I think the sort of call-and-response or echoing in "Where You Are" is one of my favorite things on the soundtrack. I also love how he can take a general idea like "I'm gonna write a David Bowie song for a family cartoon film" and make it distinctly Bowie-sounding without straight up copying any particular song (it's sort of a "Life on Mars" and "Space Oddity" homage). But he also made the song insanely clever and funny lyrically. Anyway, Lin may become the youngest EGOT winner in history if he wins an Oscar for this film.
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Dec 3, 2016 19:13
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I liked the reprise when their sailing to Tafiti for the first time and Maui is just singing quietly to himself: "What can I say, except, we're dead soon..."
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Dec 3, 2016 22:49
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Ravel posted:There's a rap section that starts "Honestly, I could go on and on..." which is in both, but Lin's one has the extra fast bit which Dwayne just goes "Ha Ha HA HA Heeyyy" over instead. Lin also sings (in both of his versions) that Maui killed a snake and buried it to create coconuts. The Rock's version correctly says eel true to the Hawaiian legend. Bonus footage of the actors recording their lines (Lin is conducting The Rock at 3:43) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fRdwJch6uo Zero One fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 06:26
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I saw this movie and it was really good. Maui was basically a cross between the Genie from Aladdin and Wakka from FFX. Was also cool to get some relatively fresh mythology instead of another movie about the middle ages or ancient greece/rome or victorian era or vikings or whatever. I also really liked that a lot of the primal forces of the earth and nature (the ocean, lava/volcano monster/island mother herself, and the sea all were kinda personalities. Also the coconut dude scene was just them taking the piss out of mad max/waterworld which I had no problem with at all! That "You're welcome" song has been a worm in my ear all day 
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Dec 4, 2016 06:33
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Saw it today, I really loved it. I was one of those people who didn't really care for Frozen. Have anyone seen Whale Rider? Moana's story arc is like a less depressing version of that in a lot of ways. The final scenes of these two movies are surprisingly similar, despite huge narrative differences in the movies.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:45
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So apparently there are people that didn't like the "Shiny!" part, saying it doesn't fit with the movie and is too goofy. Personally, I loved it, and I think what they were going for is satirizing how Disney villains often have some self-indulgent song about themselves, so they took that to it's extreme and made the most flamboyant possible villain and song.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:35
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Shiny is my favorite part!
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Dec 8, 2016 01:38
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sweetmercifulcrap posted:So apparently there are people that didn't like the "Shiny!" part, saying it doesn't fit with the movie and is too goofy. this is consistently the best part of most disney films though 
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Dec 8, 2016 02:13
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I've only seen it once yet, but I didn't love Shiny. My initial impression was that it didn't fit the movie thematically or visually. Reminded me of Oogy Boogy from Nightmare before Christmas. I don't even really remember the lyrics, just how odd it felt. That said, I am open to changing my mind after I see it again, and also it was definitely better than the coconut pirates. The only good part of that was Moana deciding she didn't need Maui to do badass stuff and the scene with her throwing the harpoon was a great visual. I do love self-indulgent Disney villain songs, but Giant Enemy Crab wasn't really a villain or even Moana's antagonist in any real way. I don't feel like he earned the time.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:19
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Oogie Boogie makes perfect sense in Nightmare Before Christmas, though. He's the externalization of Jack's selfishness. It's why they share henchmen and Oogie Boogie is nothing but a shadow until Jack decides to kidnap Santa. "How dare you treat my friends so shamefully" is basically just the flip side of "what have I done?" e: also why this shot exists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ll2vP4L_eA e2: and don't even get me started on Oogie creeping on Sally or how his lair is covered in skeletons and skull motifs Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 02:23
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Pick posted:Shiny is my favorite part!  It's the best part!
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Dec 8, 2016 04:16
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Oogie Boogie makes perfect sense in Nightmare Before Christmas, though. He's the externalization of Jack's selfishness. It's why they share henchmen and Oogie Boogie is nothing but a shadow until Jack decides to kidnap Santa. This is a great post, and I just need to say that I didn't mean that Oogie was a bad character, rather that a character in Moana reminding me of him was odd for that movie as it is a very different film from Nighmare.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:24
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"Shiny" is the best Disney villain song since "Gaston". It's also the most musically interesting song in the film. It has everything: a unique sound for the character, a catchy hook, a super cool visually interesting scene, it's funny, has clever lyrics, AND ITS A FREAKING DAVID BOWIE HOMAGE. Seriously, LMM rhymed: Demigod Decapod (look it up!) Take apart Achin' heart
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Dec 8, 2016 04:58
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I thought Shiny was addressing aspects of Maui, but then again Maui didn't get as much development as he really should have so eh that scene was one of the best in the movie though
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Dec 8, 2016 08:11
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It's basically the anti-message of the film. If we boil the film's message down to Granny's lines in "Where You Are": You are your father's daughter, Stubbornness and Pride Might what he says but remember You may hear a voice inside And if that voice starts to whisper to follow the farthest star Moana that voice inside is who you are Tomatoa literally refutes this actual conversation in his song: Did your granny say listen to your heart Be who you are on the inside I need three words to tear her argument apart Your granny lied! I'd rather be...Shiny He's basically arguing that looking good on the outside is the key to success and happiness. Not only does his shiny-ness make him feel good about himself, it makes him successful because he uses it to catch and eat fish with little effort.
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Dec 8, 2016 14:54
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On the other hand, from Tamatoa's point of view he's basically right because he doesn't even die, he just loses a not-very-shiny hook. He will continue to eat fish and be glittery and sing and be the best part of the movie.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:32
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In the after credits scene he is still stuck on his back, so that is probably his fate. I also don't understand the complaints of Maui not having enough development. He had more than any other character.
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Dec 8, 2016 18:15
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sweetmercifulcrap posted:I also don't understand the complaints of Maui not having enough development. He had more than any other character. Development is more than a character doing things; you have to establish why they do the things they do, provide reasons for doing different things, and juxtapose the actions of the character before development happened and after, to show that the character has grown. Moana feels like a developed character because we always knew her goal, her actions toward it and the stakes involved and how she feels about them, but Maui feels like there are entire swaths of his actual arc on the cutting room floor, so his "growth" such as it is feels less like a natural part of the story and more like ticking off boxes on the archetype list. None of this is a slam against Dwayne Johnson, I fully believe he did the best he could with what he was given- it just feels like he was given not a whole lot and was just told to fill in the blanks with his charm (which, I allow, is considerable).
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Dec 9, 2016 05:14
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Pick posted:On the other hand, from Tamatoa's point of view he's basically right because he doesn't even die, he just loses a not-very-shiny hook. He will continue to eat fish and be glittery and sing and be the best part of the movie. This. Tomatoa is the real winner in Moana. (Obviously all of humanity wins huge too because the world isn't dying anymore and they reclaimed their traditions. But are they shiny? Check loving mate.) There is legit value in Tomatoa's message of: Prop yourself up and dare to be fabulous. Fake it 'til you make it works. I'm not gonna judge people for gussying themselves up or think of them as superficial. It's what they want. It's what makes them feel good. loving own it. sweetmercifulcrap posted:In the after credits scene he is still stuck on his back, so that is probably his fate. I'm sure he gets back on his feet eventually. I won't have it any other way. 
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Dec 9, 2016 10:20
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Mahoning posted:It's basically the anti-message of the film. If we boil the film's message down to Granny's lines in "Where You Are": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZKsLB3JkB8
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Dec 10, 2016 02:44
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I like the middle part of the song when Maui fails to use his hook and the song goes into a minor key losing half it's instruments for a verse. A surprisingly chilling moment in a fairly airy song.
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Dec 10, 2016 07:02
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Also, a thing I just realised about how wrong Tamatoa was was that he tries to claim that Moana's Granny's advice was bad - but he has been taking it all along without realising. He was a boring little normal crab, but in his heart he wanted to be the centre of attention - so he made it happen. He didn't fall back on being shiny as a shortcut - he built himself up over millenia. Tamatoa followed the hell out of his heart, and is much happier for it.
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Dec 11, 2016 09:40
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I agree that Tamatoa is only better the more you think about him.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:41
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