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Shei-kun
Dec 2, 2011

Screw you, physics!
Man, this was the "mess with Saber" episode, wasn't it?

Also, Boss continues to be amazing.

EDIT: Update on previous page

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Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011

I can't believe that a Holy Grail War observer would be a secret participant/cheater, who could have imagined

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Rody One Half posted:

I can't believe that a Holy Grail War observer would be a secret participant/cheater, who could have imagined
I'm sure that every participant in every previous Grail War has been completely honest and forthright, and all of this talk in this very thread about Casters and their masters being cheater cheater pumpkin eaters has all been hypothetical. I'm shocked, Tsuchimikado. Shocked, I say!

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Just Cram It


Look, I'm 100% sure there is a Holy Grail War where the observer was a fair and impartial figure with no ulterior motives, just let me check...

Edit: oh. dear god. oh lord. it's worse than i thought.

GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 13:34 on May 17, 2024

Asterite34
May 19, 2009



Look, let's just be thankful that as far as we know, nobody chucked Zoroastrian Satan in the Grail and made it a limitless font of Evil Genie wishes and burning corrosive mud this time.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

Look, I'm 100% sure there is a Holy Grail War where the observer was a fair and impartial figure with no ulterior motives, just let me check...

Edit: oh. dear god. oh lord. it's worse than i thought.

lol

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
“No way to stop this from happening” says the only universe where grail war betrayals routinely happen

GhostStalker
Mar 26, 2010

Guys, find a woman who looks at you the way GhostStalker looks at every bald, obese, single 58 year old accountant from Tulsa who managed to win $4,000 by not wagering on a Final Jeopardy triple stumper.

Coolguye posted:

“No way to stop this from happening” says the only universe where grail war betrayals routinely happen

What can you say, magi are almost entirely all dicks looking for the slightest advantage.

Asterite34
May 19, 2009



Coolguye posted:

“No way to stop this from happening” says the only universe where grail war betrayals routinely happen

Here's the thing though: it seemingly happens in almost every universe. There's always some bullshit where someone cheats or games the system or plays silly buggers so egregiously it threatens to destroy the world. I can only think of one canonical Grail War where nobody hosed around to a degree that it mattered, the contest played out more or less as intended and the Grail worked more or less as designed, and the guy who won (with his hilariously OP but still not fundamentally unusual Servant) didn't even ask for a crazy reality-destroying wish, he just wanted a poo poo-ton of money.

Somehow THAT Grail War had the most apocalyptic consequences out of all of them, go figure.

Asterite34 fucked around with this message at 16:39 on May 17, 2024

Boksi
Jan 11, 2016
I'm assuming you can't, but can you do any of the battle recollections as Tamamo Aria?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
god i hope not

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Just Cram It


I feel it's safe to say you can't, Aria is not playable and only has her buff skill. And also doesn't want to work.

Now, Aria as a future DLC character.... lmao nah, they would put OG Tamamo before her.

TheLastRoboKy
May 2, 2009

Finishing the game with everyone else's continues

Boksi posted:

I'm assuming you can't, but can you do any of the battle recollections as Tamamo Aria?

Not yet at least! Who knows what DLC 3 will do?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Asterite34 posted:

Look, let's just be thankful that as far as we know, nobody chucked Zoroastrian Satan in the Grail and made it a limitless font of Evil Genie wishes and burning corrosive mud this time.

Nobody has chucked Zoroastrian Satan in the Grail and made it a limitless font of Evil Genie wishes and burning corrosive mud so far.

SoundwaveAU
Apr 17, 2018

I would like to see an actual Grail War where the servants just straight-up throw down. The absence of some grand evil, or outsider plotting, or the dude who cheated the system by summoning the Almighty Fuckinator Class servant would genuinely make it a novelty.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

SoundwaveAU posted:

I would like to see an actual Grail War where the servants just straight-up throw down. The absence of some grand evil, or outsider plotting, or the dude who cheated the system by summoning the Almighty Fuckinator Class servant would genuinely make it a novelty.

A couple get close to that as in where the outside shenanigans are at a minimum. There is one that from what we know about it had no bullshit but I doubt it will ever get much attention as it was essentially a curb stomp.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Just Cram It


Yeah, my post about "Holy Grail Wars without overseer fuckery" was mostly a joke on how many of the big ones had some of that. The least affected would be EXTRA's Moon Cell War because the one loving poo poo up is a former Master, not the system who is actually impartial unless you are an NPC.

There's in background lore what's called Subspecies Grail Wars in some Fate timelines which are minor versions of the ritual where like, not all 7 Servants classes are summonned or the reward is just mana and not a wish or every Master has 2 Servants (and also it's a livestream), etc. The Waxing Moon Ritual can kinda be slotted into that as well.

The fun thing is it lead to lore bits where mages who use the internet actually made Holy Grail War wikis about the meta, like Assassins being too OP until people just decided to murder anyone who summons one, or how wars in Europe sometimes end before there's even a summoning because every Master killed each other over a catalyst for summoning Herakles :v:

Rorahusky
Nov 12, 2012

Transform and waaauuuugh out!

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

There's in background lore what's called Subspecies Grail Wars in some Fate timelines which are minor versions of the ritual where like, not all 7 Servants classes are summonned or the reward is just mana and not a wish or every Master has 2 Servants (and also it's a livestream), etc. The Waxing Moon Ritual can kinda be slotted into that as well.

I believe in Red's introduction episode, our Magical Grandfather Book actually described the Waxing Moon Ritual as just such one Subspecies Holy Grail War.

TheLastRoboKy
May 2, 2009

Finishing the game with everyone else's continues

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

The fun thing is it lead to lore bits where mages who use the internet actually made Holy Grail War wikis about the meta, like Assassins being too OP until people just decided to murder anyone who summons one, or how wars in Europe sometimes end before there's even a summoning because every Master killed each other over a catalyst for summoning Herakles :v:

One of the White Day events for FGO depicts one such incident, where the Master and Moriarty (yes THAT Moriarty) are transported to a dream to revisit a time when the latter did some business with some Mages regarding an auction on a summoning catalyst that in its original occurrence saw a pretty high body count. In the event Moriarty and the Master resolve the incident without bloodshed, as Moriarty always considered how it went out of control as a bit of a blemish on his usually very well planned operations (even though his only involvement was the offering of advice to the person running the auction). Needless to say the criminal mastermind remarks that he usually tried to avoid working with Mages even remotely, because they absolutely do stupid poo poo that's hard to account for, which in this case was the person originally holding the auction claiming the item was stolen before the auction (I forget why), causing the attending Mages to break into a fight that got very well out of control. Preventing the fight from breaking out by solving the "theft" was how that entire situation was resolved, freeing Master and Moriarty from the dream.

As an aside I'm very fond of crimes grandpa.


Rorahusky posted:

I believe in Red's introduction episode, our Magical Grandfather Book actually described the Waxing Moon Ritual as just such one Subspecies Holy Grail War.

Indeed, and many have commented on how the ritual seems to be unable to achieve quite what the original does. It's enough for what Yasuhiro desires though.

PlasticAutomaton
Nov 12, 2016

Artoria Pendonut


The depiction of both Holmes and Moriarty in FGO are so goddamned good.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
looking forward to hearing the stories about how holmes' drug habits get used against him in a grail war

Rorahusky
Nov 12, 2012

Transform and waaauuuugh out!
Damnit Holmes, for the last time, Void Dust is not Grape-Flavored Cocaine! I need that poo poo for magical crafting materials!

Asterite34
May 19, 2009



Coolguye posted:

looking forward to hearing the stories about how holmes' drug habits get used against him in a grail war

Naw, it's heavily implied he just recreationally gets up to stuff like that whenever he gets some time away from his supervisors, it's kind of a running gag

TheLastRoboKy
May 2, 2009

Finishing the game with everyone else's continues

Coolguye posted:

looking forward to hearing the stories about how holmes' drug habits get used against him in a grail war

During the Las Vegas Summer Event in FGO (this was the event caused by Musashi attempting to make Udon in a holy grail) Holmes is thrown out of a casino for being under the influence of narcotics. It's basically his only appearance in the event. This is initiated by Moriarty, who is working at a bar in the casino and helps you get around three shirtless round table knights preventing you from challenging the casino owner by exposing their weaknesses (one of which is just "older married women"). Interestingly enough during this event Musashi has her first appearance as a Berserker and also tries to pretend she's not actually Musashi (mostly out of embarrassment of having caused everything) and initially tells you she's actually Iori.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

TheLastRoboKy posted:

During the Las Vegas Summer Event in FGO (this was the event caused by Musashi attempting to make Udon in a holy grail) Holmes is thrown out of a casino for being under the influence of narcotics. It's basically his only appearance in the event. This is initiated by Moriarty, who is working at a bar in the casino and helps you get around three shirtless round table knights preventing you from challenging the casino owner by exposing their weaknesses (one of which is just "older married women"). Interestingly enough during this event Musashi has her first appearance as a Berserker and also tries to pretend she's not actually Musashi (mostly out of embarrassment of having caused everything) and initially tells you she's actually Iori.

I am pretty sure that was just Moriarty taking advantage of his position to gently caress with him. Anyway I do love the way he deals with the knights as it runs the gambit of friendly ways to deal with them to a massive gut punch.

Dr. Snark
Oct 15, 2012

I'M SORRY, OK!? I admit I've made some mistakes, and Jones has clearly paid for them.
...
But ma'am! Jones' only crime was looking at the wrong files!
...
I beg of you, don't ship away Jones, he has a wife and kids!

-United Nations Intelligence Service

Coolguye posted:

looking forward to hearing the stories about how holmes' drug habits get used against him in a grail war

The real issue with him is much better/worse: he will not tell anyone what he knows unless he is absolutely, completely, 100% sure his answer is correct. Which makes sense on some levels since anything said by Sherlock Goddamn Holmes is second only to the word of God Himself.

It's problematic when he's "only" 99.99999% sure of something and doesn't tell anyone because of the (unlikely) chance that he's wrong even if an inaccurate (by Holmes' standards, natch) conclusion would be useful enough.

...That and he has his literary tendency to mouth off about his genius conclusions to people who can and do kick his teeth in when he tells them something they don't want to hear.

So yes, his characterization in the series is very much on point :v:

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Just Cram It


Other fun points include Holmes gaslighting his colleagues on whether he was a real person or just a literary figure who never existed, only for renowed occultist and definitively real person Madame Helena Blavatsky to go "Dude, we went to the Himalayas together, wtf are you on about" and the fact most Sherlock Holmes stories in Fate are censored to hide magic involvement such as The Adventure of the Speckled Band actually being death by curses instead of the original (and that it's why spmetimes they have plot holes)

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

most Sherlock Holmes stories in Fate are censored to hide magic involvement such as The Adventure of the Speckled Band actually being death by curses instead of the original (and that it's why spmetimes they have plot holes)
I really like that! For the uninitiated, the Speckled Band is a very atmosperic, almost Gothic story, completely ruined by an utterly idiotic solution that only shows that (spoilers for classic a Sherlock Holmes mystery) Doyle knew absolutely nothing about snakes and didn't bother to do even the most basic research. It's also gloriously lampooned in the Great Ace Attorney game.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 20, 2024

PlasticAutomaton
Nov 12, 2016

Artoria Pendonut


GiantRockFromSpace posted:

Other fun points include Holmes gaslighting his colleagues on whether he was a real person or just a literary figure who never existed, only for renowed occultist and definitively real person Madame Helena Blavatsky to go "Dude, we went to the Himalayas together, wtf are you on about" and the fact most Sherlock Holmes stories in Fate are censored to hide magic involvement such as The Adventure of the Speckled Band actually being death by curses instead of the original (and that it's why spmetimes they have plot holes)

Helena's also the one Servant at Chaldea that can instantly cut through Sherlock's bullshit, it's great.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

Other fun points include Holmes gaslighting his colleagues on whether he was a real person or just a literary figure who never existed, only for renowed occultist and definitively real person Madame Helena Blavatsky to go "Dude, we went to the Himalayas together, wtf are you on about" and the fact most Sherlock Holmes stories in Fate are censored to hide magic involvement such as The Adventure of the Speckled Band actually being death by curses instead of the original (and that it's why spmetimes they have plot holes)

something like half of the british population currently thinks that holmes was a real person so this feels like an incredibly dialed in swing to take tbh

Shei-kun
Dec 2, 2011

Screw you, physics!

TheLastRoboKy posted:

During the Las Vegas Summer Event in FGO (this was the event caused by Musashi attempting to make Udon in a holy grail)
Hold up. I need to hear more about this.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Shei-kun posted:

Hold up. I need to hear more about this.

She thought it was a good idea to eat Udon using a Holy Grail which caused a singularity to form around it. So to deal with it the protagonist and the few servants who decided to focus on helping out instead of goofing off had to fight through several casinos which each being led by a different swimsuit swordmasters which allowed them to strike at the heart of the madness and get things to slowly return to normal.

Shei-kun
Dec 2, 2011

Screw you, physics!
I love how ridiculously stupid the Fate universe can get :allears:

Dr. Snark
Oct 15, 2012

I'M SORRY, OK!? I admit I've made some mistakes, and Jones has clearly paid for them.
...
But ma'am! Jones' only crime was looking at the wrong files!
...
I beg of you, don't ship away Jones, he has a wife and kids!

-United Nations Intelligence Service

Shei-kun posted:

I love how ridiculously stupid the Fate universe can get :allears:

FGO's events are by far the peak of the Nasuverse's stupidity in all the best ways. The Servantverse has been detailed already, but other highlights include (and are not limited to):

-One of the team's Servants decides to put on the Worst Concert of All Time (from everyone else's perspective) for several years in a row. Against all sense and logic, this leads to her creating several clones of herself.
-Another one needs to replace their big superweapon due to it being stolen by herself. She decides that the best way to do this is to reenact the plot of Steel Ball Run. The plan fails largely because the weapon in question is kaiju-sized and there's nowhere to actually store the thing.
-The team is sent to investigate a singularity based around cheesy horror movies, causing one of their members to repeatedly die in the usual gratuitous ways (she gets better). The cause of this is eventually revealed to be one of the biggest simps in the history of the human race.
-Another time the team realizes something wrong when the head of one of their Servants goes missing. The Servant in question treats being stealth decapitated as a mild inconvenience at most. This is the opening scene to the event in question.
-The planet looks like it's about to be invaded by aliens, except it turns out to be the aforementioned Servantverse people who took a wrong turn at the Andromeda Galaxy, or something. All parties involved just decide to shrug and roll with it.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

https://twitter.com/tarutaruiiigo/status/1792469769838584067

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT

Dr. Snark posted:

FGO's events are by far the peak of the Nasuverse's stupidity in all the best ways. The Servantverse has been detailed already, but other highlights include (and are not limited to):

-One of the team's Servants decides to put on the Worst Concert of All Time (from everyone else's perspective) for several years in a row. Against all sense and logic, this leads to her creating several clones of herself.
-Another one needs to replace their big superweapon due to it being stolen by herself. She decides that the best way to do this is to reenact the plot of Steel Ball Run. The plan fails largely because the weapon in question is kaiju-sized and there's nowhere to actually store the thing.
-The team is sent to investigate a singularity based around cheesy horror movies, causing one of their members to repeatedly die in the usual gratuitous ways (she gets better). The cause of this is eventually revealed to be one of the biggest simps in the history of the human race.
-Another time the team realizes something wrong when the head of one of their Servants goes missing. The Servant in question treats being stealth decapitated as a mild inconvenience at most. This is the opening scene to the event in question.
-The planet looks like it's about to be invaded by aliens, except it turns out to be the aforementioned Servantverse people who took a wrong turn at the Andromeda Galaxy, or something. All parties involved just decide to shrug and roll with it.

- Literally Comiket, in Hawaii. But with a 7 day timeloop until the protagonist's circle can make the best selling work at the convention.

TheLastRoboKy
May 2, 2009

Finishing the game with everyone else's continues

Shei-kun posted:

I love how ridiculously stupid the Fate universe can get :allears:

The entire casinos and sword-fighting in swimsuits thing was also Merlin's idea to help fix things. I appreciate FGO willing to just go ham silly on their events, the main story stuff still has a good sense of humour but they keep it relatively tame (except in the cases where it's impossible because some of the characters are deranged).


Dr. Snark posted:

-The team is sent to investigate a singularity based around cheesy horror movies, causing one of their members to repeatedly die in the usual gratuitous ways (she gets better). The cause of this is eventually revealed to be one of the biggest simps in the history of the human race.

I love Xu Fu so much.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer
There is also Valentine's Day which is usually saves the insanity for the mini events instead of the main story but one year essentially has the entire of Chaldea trying to outproduce the chocolate creation capabilities of a holy grail.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

They really should be more careful with those things.

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Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

So what I'm getting is that those things belong in a museum, or under lock and key in a giant warehouse filled with lots of wooden crates.

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