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T-Bone posted:
I'm just pointing out the dissonance in the constant complaining. If having a bunch of defenders who have offensive talent prioritized is the goal, then no one should be surprised when you're winning or loosing games by 6-4 score lines all year and your goalie looks like he's wearing swiss cheese pads. There definitely needs to be both types of player though, because then you don't have anyone who can run a power play unit. New Jersey is pretty full of those offense first type of player at the moment too, and could probably use someone better than Bahl or Marino to actually defend. Nemec isn't there yet, but he might get there in a year or two. It's just going to be porous until it happens. I'm watching the Kraken roster in the same way. Vince Dunn is sort of mid at offense and defense, but then you have Adam Larsson and Oleksiak who can defend, but they have almost no offensive upside. Having put up with Justin Schultz all year, I feel not at all elated even when considering it was Hakstol's system.
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May 6, 2024 20:55
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You should take the best player in the draft, always and forever. The Devils got insane value at #46, whether he ultimately fits in to their particular composition of players, who cares. He's already a more valuable asset than just about everyone picked in the 2nd round, and a lot of the guys in the 1st round.
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May 6, 2024 21:07
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Are they tanking for first overall or what? Travis Green should not be coaching an NHL hockey team.
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May 6, 2024 21:10
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When you get a chance to hire a coach with a career .467 win percentage that not a single other team has interviewed you gotta jump on it
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May 6, 2024 21:15
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The Dirty Burger posted:When you get a chance to hire a coach with a career .467 win percentage that not a single other team has interviewed you gotta jump on it NJ gave him a courtesy interview!
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May 6, 2024 21:23
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https://x.com/primetimesens/status/1787564676655595910?s=46&t=2hVb1vPytx9OUpdE0UPz6Q
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May 6, 2024 21:34
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It's like Melnyk never left
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May 6, 2024 21:37
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The Dirty Burger posted:https://x.com/primetimesens/status/1787564676655595910?s=46&t=2hVb1vPytx9OUpdE0UPz6Q 
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May 6, 2024 22:04
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Marner has 11 mil and a NMC. Even with cap going up, which teams are actually in on him I could see Washington being in on him, provided Marner actually waives his NMC for a team like the Capitals. Washington has a lot of cap space (especially if Oshie also goes on LTIR next year) and they are looking for a legit top 6 forward. But I don't know what they have that Toronto would want in return. They'd want Carlson but he's not going anywhere. I joked Wilson for Marner but I think Washington is too stupid to trade Wilson even if Toronto is stupid enough to want Wilson.
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May 6, 2024 22:06
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Koopa Kid posted:Marner has always dreamed of being a… Buffalo Sabre? Mitch Marner has been traded to the Buffalo Sabres for Jeff Skinner. The trade is one for one. I would be sad if they traded Skinner, he’s my favorite.
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May 6, 2024 22:25
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re: offensive defensemen, imo the dissonance comes from the long-held belief that becoming an effective defender is a matter of effort and discipline, rather than a combination of skills and traits, while creativity and scoring are seen as unique gifts. People think any good scoring dman should be able to learn to defend well, so it becomes a moral failing on the part of the defender if they make the league and don’t become at least passable in their own end, thus the amount of poo poo they get for being who they are.
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May 6, 2024 22:57
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I could see a team like Detroit ponying up some of their prospects for Marner, but I don't know if Toronto would trade in division. Could also see Utah, with the new owner wanting to make a splash. They have a ton of prospects too. Or maybe Nashville, since they might be moving on from Saros anyway and lord knows Toronto needs a goalie.
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May 6, 2024 22:57
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I remember one of the fancy stats sites did a deep dive that suggested Erik Karlsson was so phenomenally bad at defense that even at his absolute peak, he averaged out to a zero benefit in Ottawa. Obviously over shorter periods of time like their playoff run it worked out in their favor though.
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May 6, 2024 23:05
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Koopa Kid posted:re: offensive defensemen, imo the dissonance comes from the long-held belief that becoming an effective defender is a matter of effort and discipline, rather than a combination of skills and traits, while creativity and scoring are seen as unique gifts. That's a good point, and terribly wrong in practice. Defending well is also a unique combination of skills and traits, and while it does require discipline and effort, so does being an effective goal scorer. You don't get there without having effort and discipline. It's why the best defenders make mediocre defenders look like they're playing a different game entirely. Taking a position half a step to the right or left can make a huge amount of difference, reading the angle and speed and then hitting that gap control a foot closer, lifting a stick or taking a specific body position is just very important too. It's why Jonas Brodin can often make Connor McDavid look like a normal hockey player and why Drew Doughty has lasted as long as he has. They're creative defenders, it just doesn't look as cool as making a killer move on the puck and beating the goalie top shelf. Aphrodite posted:I remember one of the fancy stats sites did a deep dive that suggested Erik Karlsson was so phenomenally bad at defense that even at his absolute peak, he averaged out to a zero benefit in Ottawa. Like Bedard in Chicago this year? Jhet fucked around with this message at 23:20 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 23:14
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Manner for Huberdeau who says no
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May 7, 2024 00:16
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Aphrodite posted:I remember one of the fancy stats sites did a deep dive that suggested Erik Karlsson was so phenomenally bad at defense that even at his absolute peak, he averaged out to a zero benefit in Ottawa. i just cannot buy this at all. i'd be curious which model this is. I believe JFresh's/Dom's models always rates him super highly, which I also don't totally buy. but IMO he's always been much, much, much closer to the best defenseman in the league than an average or replacement one.
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May 7, 2024 01:39
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DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:i just cannot buy this at all. i'd be curious which model this is. I believe JFresh's/Dom's models always rates him super highly, which I also don't totally buy. but IMO he's always been much, much, much closer to the best defenseman in the league than an average or replacement one. EK was a net benefit this year overall for sure. I think he was somewhere around 30-40ish overall, but his defending is much better than people like to talk about. Even in San Jose it was.
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May 7, 2024 01:41
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I will say that Travis Green is in the pantheon of sick 90s flow, so you at least get to reminisce about this when you see him:DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:
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May 7, 2024 01:42
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All the publicly available so-called isolated metrics are complete dogshit at reliably separating a defender’s results from his partner and deployments, so I’d buy that EK shows poorly as a result of being on the Ottawa Senators but not believe we could go much more granular than that with historic data
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May 7, 2024 01:51
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Koopa Kid posted:All the publicly available so-called isolated metrics are complete dogshit at reliably separating a defender’s results from his partner and deployments, so I’d buy that EK shows poorly as a result of being on the Ottawa Senators but not believe we could go much more granular than that with historic data It was funny this year how multiple fancystats people wrote articles about deployment, because the Red Wings defense was so dogshit that Moritz Seider was on the ice against top lines as much as humanly possible and it cratered his xG% and had people asking "wait, is he bad now?"
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May 7, 2024 02:04
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:It was funny this year how multiple fancystats people wrote articles about deployment, because the Red Wings defense was so dogshit that Moritz Seider was on the ice against top lines as much as humanly possible and it cratered his xG% and had people asking "wait, is he bad now?" Yeah it’s nice that the stats community is constantly updating and revising their models but it also sure as poo poo makes the old arguments insisting that x or y didn’t matter because it didn’t show in old data look pretty silly
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May 7, 2024 02:08
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DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:i just cannot buy this at all. i'd be curious which model this is. I believe JFresh's/Dom's models always rates him super highly, which I also don't totally buy. but IMO he's always been much, much, much closer to the best defenseman in the league than an average or replacement one. He was still in Ottawa, so it’s probably pretty drat hard to find today.
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May 7, 2024 02:25
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DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:I will say that Travis Green is in the pantheon of sick 90s flow, so you at least get to reminisce about this when you see him: Seen this on the tl and have 180’d on him being coach https://x.com/jsani/status/1787621118272053497?s=46&t=2hVb1vPytx9OUpdE0UPz6Q
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May 7, 2024 02:29
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poo poo like waiting three years too long to finally sack Keefe, only to decide that the answer to what ails them is Craig fuckin' Berube... well, that's why the Maple Leafs are where they are as an organization. Marner could be moveable in theory, but the Leafs aren't going to get a top pairing or even second pairing defenseman for him, because contending teams aren't going to give one of those up and Marner won't accept a trade to a lesser team. All they'd get is a cap dump to buy out and a pile of draft picks which they'd then have to try to broker to a third team for another veteran. They're probably stuck with him. If the Pens open up the cap space Marner would require, they'll use it to bring Guentzel back.
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May 7, 2024 12:48
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Twin Cinema posted:According to someone who listened to 32 Thoughts I hope they extend McCabe and move him to the first pairing and move Rielly into a landfill or something
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May 7, 2024 13:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NDSxLfvJj0
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May 7, 2024 14:25
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I fully believe Karlsson is the sole reason Ottawa made it to the Conference Finals that one season,
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May 7, 2024 14:29
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Craig Anderson standing on his head for a month really helped too. But poo poo, that Senators team didn't merely make the conference finals, they very very nearly made it to the Cup Final.
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May 7, 2024 14:30
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Fun fact, Rielly was bad but still 6-3 in 5v5 GF vs GA. Meanwhile Lyubushkin was 6-1 and the only 5v5 goal against he was on for all series was the game 7 OT winner.
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May 7, 2024 14:32
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Eric the Mauve posted:Craig Anderson standing on his head for a month really helped too. But poo poo, that Senators team didn't merely make the conference finals, they very very nearly made it to the Cup Final. I looked and Game 7 was double overtime, too. We were very close to having the weirdest Finals of Ottawa vs. Nashville.
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May 7, 2024 14:40
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Draft lottery tonight, I’ve made peace and am mentally ready for Macklin to the Blackhawks
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May 7, 2024 15:12
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Eric the Mauve posted:poo poo like waiting three years too long to finally sack Keefe, only to decide that the answer to what ails them is Craig fuckin' Berube... well, that's why the Maple Leafs are where they are as an organization. You only need to look at the Dubois or Tkachuk trades to see what a young top line player can get you even when you only have a couple options on where to go. (Huberdeau extension notwithstanding.) A team that wants Marner won't want him to go to market.
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May 7, 2024 15:25
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1787860546970169466
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May 7, 2024 16:04
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Real bad work ethic from Celebrini there. Whoever gets first should draft someone else.
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May 7, 2024 16:07
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The Dirty Burger posted:Draft lottery tonight, I’ve made peace and am mentally ready for Macklin to the Blackhawks Yyyyyyyyyyyep. To be honest it's probably a good thing for the NHL that they've finally figured out how to rig draft lotteries. Would have been a lot better if they'd figured it out 10 years ago when McDavid hit the league. But the fact they're doing it to settle what they perceive as what they owe to the Blackhawks for putting them through all that unpleasantness of actually slapping their wrist for aiding and abetting a serial rapist... ugh, that's just awful beyond words.
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May 7, 2024 16:07
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I think I'd like to see San Jose win the lottery. Sure they nakedly tanked and all, but this is the first stretch in like 20 years they've really been a bad team and they seem to be going about the rebuild the right way, plus Celebrini is kiiiind of a hometown player if you squint. He played for the Jr. Sharks while his dad was director of sports medicine for the Golden State Warriors. More importantly it'd be a team that hasn't already had a top of top-5 picks in recent history, and it's not the Blackhawks.
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May 7, 2024 16:23
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Jamwad Hilder posted:I think I'd like to see San Jose win the lottery. Sure they nakedly tanked and all, but this is the first stretch in like 20 years they've really been a bad team and they seem to be going about the rebuild the right way, plus Celebrini is kiiiind of a hometown player if you squint. He played for the Jr. Sharks while his dad was director of sports medicine for the Golden State Warriors. More importantly it'd be a team that hasn't already had a top of top-5 picks in recent history, and it's not the Blackhawks. Obviously rooting for the Habs but the Sharks are the other team I would be cool with because of how dire that team is. As long as it’s not the Hawks (and Ottawa for selfish reasons).
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May 7, 2024 16:28
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Literally anyone but loving chicago
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May 7, 2024 17:31
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The Dirty Burger posted:https://x.com/teacherofpuck/status/1786962007176212799?s=46&t=2hVb1vPytx9OUpdE0UPz6Q Finally found the loser thread so I'm catching up. The springtime serenity vibes with the birds chirping in the background is really  . Must watch with the sound turned on.
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May 7, 2024 17:39
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https://x.com/onlysenators/status/1787882093701140876?s=46&t=2hVb1vPytx9OUpdE0UPz6Q Meet the new guy, same as the old guy lol
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May 7, 2024 17:45
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