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Nameless_Steve posted:
Anyone who follows the political cartoon thread could tell you this is pretty run of the mill as far as this poo poo goes.
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Nov 23, 2014 06:28
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I've had Republicans disagree that we benefit from immigration. I think this warrants more attention than I've ever given it. There seems to be a paradigmatic schism as to be whether we're in times of survival or surplus. If you think we're struggling to survive, winter's coming and the dry goods are running low, naturally you'd be amenable to keeping poors poor and immigrants out. Not enough to go around, right?
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Nov 23, 2014 06:57
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Well monetarily speaking we don't necessarily benefit from mass immigration. Ideologically it's hard to argue against it though, given America's history. It's irrelevant in any case because the sentiment in that cartoon is pure, 100% nativist xenophobia. Unless you're actually a seasonal farm worker you aren't going to be in direct competition with unskilled immigrant labor, the effect for a middle class person is going to be marginal at best.
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Nov 23, 2014 07:01
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I know this is a discussion of specifically American immigration, but a lot of arguments in favor of immigration outside of a cold calculation of value tend to rely on very American-specific circumstances like "we're a nation of immigrants" or "we don't have a leg to stand on after illegally immigrating here in the face of the natives." and that sort of stuff. There was a comment earlier about immigrants having to offer something of value to existing citizens to be let in, to which someone responded that if we're giving out citizenship according to value like that why not expel all the poor rubes in the Appalachians contributing nothing. There's the kernel of an interesting discussion on what citizenship means and why people immigrate there. I think my view of it would be that ideally everyone would be able to go where they please and be a citizen of whatever country they like to pursue a better life, but the practical limitation is that a country can usually only absorb so many immigrants at a time. When setting immigration policy then there's a balance of several goals, including finding immigrants with skills in demand as well as making space for refugees and asylum-seekers. I'd prefer if the system was skewed to allow as many as the nation can absorb, serving the goal of letting people be where they want to be. Immigration is a compliment of sorts. If lots of people want to come to your country it's probably because they're drawn to its prosperity. It seems very rude to hold people wanting to immigrate in disdain or being too cold about the purpose of immigration.
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Nov 23, 2014 10:51
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Other cartoons by this dude this week include Obama dressed as a king and Obama driving over the constitution. He's a real winner and his humor is fresh and his commentary is biting.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:37
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Nameless_Steve posted:
gently caress YES! I'll trade aunt Bea's ambrosia salad and leathery ham for homemade tacos and flan any day of the week. Thanksgiving upgrades for everyone!
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Nov 23, 2014 14:50
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Poe's law is in full effect here. The only thing distinguishing Varvel's cartoons from the Onion's editorial cartoon is the lack of Lady Liberty looking on and shedding a single tear.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:52
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Vahakyla posted:
I don't have plat. You got an email I can send some questions to? awesome-express fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 17:45
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President Kucinich posted:I'd like to share a story. I think it's easy to forget that this affects actual loving people when you get buried too deep in the politics of it. Thanks for the reminder. 
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Nov 23, 2014 18:04
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Nameless_Steve posted:
Wow, the backlash for this cartoon became strong enough that the newspaper running it actually apologized and pulled it. (Although hilariously, first they tried photoshopping the big racist mustache off, and then realized it was still bad and yanked it.)
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Nov 23, 2014 18:35
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awesome-express posted:I don't have plat. You got an email I can send some questions to? Kalleerik.vahakyla@gmail.com
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Nov 23, 2014 20:51
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spacing in vienna posted:Wow, the backlash for this cartoon became strong enough that the newspaper running it actually apologized and pulled it. Someone needs to photoshop it so that its Puritans coming through the windows and the Indians having Thanksgiving dinner.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:53
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CommieGIR posted:Someone needs to photoshop it so that its Puritans coming through the windows and the Indians having Thanksgiving dinner.  Though it's still not accurate since Mexicans aren't actually planning on murdering 99% of Americans and taking over.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:07
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Forgall posted:
Or so you think 
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Nov 23, 2014 21:28
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Forgall posted:
Have fun dying in the first waves of Obama's 2016 ethnic purge.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:42
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Forgall posted:
Some conservatives are actually saying that will literally happen. Projection 101. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/kobach-ethnic-cleansing-possible-if-hispanics-become-us-majority#sthash.XSaVmd9H.dpuf%22* Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 22:05
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Voyager I posted:Have fun dying in the first waves of Obama's 2016 ethnic purge. Camino de las Lágrimas sounds loving metal, I won't even be mad.
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Nov 23, 2014 22:11
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It's really bizarre to me that conservative pundits use that analogy for illegal immigration. It hinges on the idea that European settlers, who they presumably identify with as founding the country, killed millions of people. Are they saying that wasn't actually acceptable? Surely white "illegal immigration" was good in their overall worldview?
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Nov 23, 2014 22:41
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Kellsterik posted:It's really bizarre to me that conservative pundits use that analogy for illegal immigration. It hinges on the idea that European settlers, who they presumably identify with as founding the country, killed millions of people. Are they saying that wasn't actually acceptable? Surely white "illegal immigration" was good in their overall worldview? The idea is to tell white people not to be STUPID like the indigenous people, "WE'RE smarter than THEM!"
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Nov 23, 2014 22:44
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Kellsterik posted:It's really bizarre to me that conservative pundits use that analogy for illegal immigration. It hinges on the idea that European settlers, who they presumably identify with as founding the country, killed millions of people. Are they saying that wasn't actually acceptable? Surely white "illegal immigration" was good in their overall worldview? No they understand the analogy perfectly well. They think race relations are a zero-sum game and the nonwhites will, if not kept in check, do the same thing they did.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:47
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comes along bort posted:No they understand the analogy perfectly well. They think race relations are a zero-sum game and the nonwhites will, if not kept in check, do the same thing they did. More generally they believe all other people are selfish assholes too. This is the basis of the claim that anyone who immigrated legally is upset that others will have an easier time. The idea that someone could be compassionate, and not want others to suffer purely out of spite, is a foreign concept.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:06
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Mr.48 posted:Some conservatives are actually saying that will literally happen. Projection 101. Good
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Nov 24, 2014 00:18
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It's almost like minorities are treated poorly or something.  On the other hand, this is probably the closest we will hear the self appointed leaders of the white race say that they have mistreated minorities. And with none of that pesky self-awareness.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:02
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Mr.48 posted:Some conservatives are actually saying that will literally happen. Projection 101. quote:Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a leader in the anti-immigrant movement, said during his Sunday radio program that it’s possible that a Hispanic majority in the U.S. could conduct an “ethnic cleansing.” Kris, baby, the Hispanics will not ethnically cleanse you. I can state this with fact because I live in what you apparently consider a post-apocalyptic racial hellscape: I live in a majority-minority neighborhood in the 63% Hispanic city of San Antonio. comes along bort posted:No they understand the analogy perfectly well. They think race relations are a zero-sum game and the nonwhites will, if not kept in check, do the same thing they did.  Everybody comes together and has a giant two-week long party with events, parades, alcohol, the whole shebang, and it's a hell of a lot of fun (and a traffic nightmare, but it's so loving worth it). I'm not saying San Antonio doesn't have racial issues, but we can somehow put aside most of our problems every year and just come together and have a giant party that crosses every racial and gender line.  Also yes, that is a Hispanic guy with a mustache wearing a giant sombrero unironically. Welcome to San Antonio, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:17
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fade5 posted:Kris, baby, the Hispanics will not ethnically cleanse you. I can state this with fact because I live in what you apparently consider a post-apocalyptic racial hellscape: I live in a majority-minority neighborhood in the 63% Hispanic city of San Antonio. They're obviously biding their time, you see.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:42
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Around mexicans, never...kick back again?
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Nov 24, 2014 02:23
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Stanos posted:Around mexicans, never...kick back again? Around Hispanics, don't forget your Xanax.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:43
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Stanos posted:Around mexicans, never...kick back again? Around wetbacks, push for a flat tax.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:50
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Around the brown, don't lay down?
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Nov 24, 2014 02:52
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If they ain't white, they ain't all right.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:31
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Around whites, remember your rights.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:33
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Around the corner, there's a New World Order.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:41
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Around crackers, assume the neckbeard are slackers.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:57
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around whites, internet fights
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Nov 24, 2014 05:05
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Open the church- There's all the people!
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Nov 24, 2014 08:01
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evilweasel posted:This country was basically built on poorly educated people from developing countries who immigrated here. And that's putting it extremely charitably, since a goodly chunk of the people whose backs this country were built on were literally kidnapped and shipped over as human cattle. fade5 posted:No seriously, this poo poo is so drat weird to me, it's like watching somebody being scared that the sky is blue or that the leaves change color in the fall. Don't want to derail too hard, but I've lived in Kansas pretty much my entire life and it's disappointingly not weird to me, at least not lately.  There have been yahoos with "THE I-35 INVASION" signs for decades. That said, the kind of things coming out of Brownback, Kobach, et al these days would have had them laughed out of Topeka fifteen years ago- there used to be a really strong moderate (well, center-right) tradition here where the two major parties went to pains to distance themselves from their Washington counterparts. Republicans stayed just to the left of their national party, the Dems just to the right of theirs. And even that is a weird bullshit change- before that, before anyone alive was born, when liberals and conservatives were literally having firefights, Kansas was the hotbed of the controversial progressive idea that maybe we shouldn't own other people.Anyhow, you can see that Kansas moderate flavor even in motherfucking Brownback's record before becoming Governor, in which he has a hard time nailing down a consistent viewpoint but as a Senator seemed to be pretty centrist on immigration, at least in a vacuum: quote:Brownback supports increasing numbers of legal immigrants, building a fence on Mexican border, and the [Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act] "if enforced." While he initially supported giving guest workers a path to citizenship, Brownback eventually voted "Nay" on June 28, 2007. Brownback has said that he supports immigration reform because the Bible says to welcome the stranger. There are honestly and truly a whole lot of things to love about Kansas. My Facebook over the past couple of days (months, years) has made these things harder and harder to remember. Is this going on in other right-leaning states? Or are we uniquely hosed out here?
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Nov 24, 2014 10:29
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I remember reading an article about an Arkansas state legislator who said "we're going to take this country back for conservatism" by one of his neighbors, and one of the quotes that I remember from it was "For the past few decades people like him have been making most of the noise and losing most of the elections here in the South, but they've been buoyed by Republicans' almost cult-like rejection of President Obama". If anything, the past four years seem to have brought about the final demise of the Blue Dogs.
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Nov 24, 2014 15:20
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:I remember reading an article about an Arkansas state legislator who said "we're going to take this country back for conservatism" by one of his neighbors, and one of the quotes that I remember from it was "For the past few decades people like him have been making most of the noise and losing most of the elections here in the South, but they've been buoyed by Republicans' almost cult-like rejection of President Obama". It'd be pretty funny if the next few years is a reversal of how the Gilded Age elections worked.
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Nov 24, 2014 15:23
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Count Canuckula posted:Open the church- There's all the people! Here's the church There's the steeple Open up the door Corporations are people
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Nov 24, 2014 16:48
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on the left posted:When people talk about the value of an educated society, they usually aren't referring to this. They are pointing out how great it is to live in a society of people who don't poo poo in the streets and aren't gullible superstitious peasants in general. Agreed. Also: have you heard the good Word? It's "Innovation".
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Nov 24, 2014 17:10
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