|
I mean the news sources I'm listening to are all regularly stating that numbers at crematoriums exceed the official death toll, which is as close to calling bullshit as I think you can get. And I'm usually getting some mention of India in the limited time I'm actually listening. OTOH, I'm listening to NPR, so I may not be the normal sample.
|
# ? May 4, 2021 14:09 |
|
|
# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:19 |
|
Zedhe Khoja posted:yeah giving Delhi a colony to terrorize isn't an improvement. One of the big drivers of the current mode of colonialism is that not having a territory be painted your color on a map means that you can say it's not your problem if the people there are suffering. Being part of the US didn't save Puerto Rico
|
# ? May 4, 2021 15:18 |
|
https://twitter.com/ranaayyub/status/1389325224483581953?s=21 https://twitter.com/akannampilly/status/1389088596389339143?s=21
|
# ? May 4, 2021 16:37 |
|
The emergency supplies aren't even reaching India? Holy poo poo!
|
# ? May 4, 2021 18:38 |
|
Flayer posted:It's crazy how what's happening in India has been reduced to a minor story in the press in the last few days, all of them parroting the official figures. It's diabolical how millions of deaths are going to be swept under the rug while almost nothing is done at a government level to combat it. I don't think it's fair to look at Delhi and assume the entire country of over one billion people are in the same boat. We have to look at this based on data, not our guts. If we don't trust official numbers (reasonable) then look for alternate sources, things like excess deaths.
|
# ? May 4, 2021 18:43 |
|
Count Roland posted:I don't think it's fair to look at Delhi and assume the entire country of over one billion people are in the same boat. We have to look at this based on data, not our guts. If we don't trust official numbers (reasonable) then look for alternate sources, things like excess deaths. Local and independent Indian journalists on Twitter are all saying that Delhi is better off than most of the country, and rural India is basically hell on Earth. The capital is unrepresentative, but not in the way you seem to be thinking.
|
# ? May 4, 2021 18:50 |
|
Grouchio posted:The emergency supplies aren't even reaching India? Holy poo poo! The USA does the same thing. Brazil tried to send a bunch of poo poo I clouding experienced people to help with (a flood? Katrina?) and US officials refused. Probably cost a bunch of lives out of pride.
|
# ? May 4, 2021 19:01 |
|
Darth Walrus posted:Local and independent Indian journalists on Twitter are all saying that Delhi is better off than most of the country, and rural India is basically hell on Earth. The capital is unrepresentative, but not in the way you seem to be thinking. Its good that Indian journalists are reporting on how bad things are even as the government seeks to keep people quiet. What I'm saying is that in a pandemic, and especially in a country as enormous and diverse as India, we must have data to make judgments. Statistical data, because anecdotes simply don't work on this scale. So, I'd very much like to see these, if anyone has such sources.
|
# ? May 4, 2021 19:47 |
|
https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1389939437010882563?s=20 I'm not read up enough on Indian politics to know whether Trinamool is Good or not, but the BJP lost West Bengal.
|
# ? May 5, 2021 14:54 |
|
Badger of Basra posted:https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1389939437010882563?s=20 That's a complete disaster for the Left Front. And for some reason the suspicion is it was the BJP who heavily gained from the collapse in the left vote. This was a historically great result for the BJP in West Bengal
|
# ? May 6, 2021 00:39 |
|
yeah the framing that they did poorly despite trying to win is wrong. it's similar to the GOP winning 20 congressional seats in california and the press trashing them because they didn't sweep; the BJP barely existed in the state a decade ago the trinamool congress is also recently ascendant. i think it's a big-tent bengali language party; usually wikipedia lists a few basic ideological positions of political parties and this is by far the biggest party i've looked up that does not contain that information, so dollars to donuts it's not inherently ideological. probably just regionalist/anti-corruption/anti-communist populist they wiped out congress and the communists so their base is probably still dalits and laborers like the two previous parties in the region
|
# ? May 6, 2021 00:50 |
|
Badger of Basra posted:https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1389939437010882563?s=20 0 gains 0 losses. Enter the SUCCCCI zone
|
# ? May 6, 2021 01:57 |
|
Looks like the official death toll is reaching the 4k per day mark
|
# ? May 8, 2021 00:00 |
|
https://twitter.com/nicolacareem/status/1390411047253721089?s=21 Yeah, rural India is straight up horrific right now.
|
# ? May 8, 2021 03:54 |
|
Count Roland posted:Its good that Indian journalists are reporting on how bad things are even as the government seeks to keep people quiet. This kind of data is difficult to produce even in relatively unapocalyptic times as 2014, according to the article below. If half of deaths aren’t counted (again, during normal times) and if producing estimates of 1/56th of annual deaths took 15 years of interviews, what hope is there for obtaining excess deaths data, as you propose? Should we just not discuss this at all until then, however long it might take? https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28228177 posted:The mystery of India's unrecorded deaths mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 8, 2021 |
# ? May 8, 2021 04:29 |
|
https://twitter.com/ranaayyub/status/1391016427457445892?s=21 The BJP Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, Yogi Adityanath, previously set the police on any hospital or individual reporting an oxygen shortage in the state.
|
# ? May 8, 2021 14:52 |
|
mawarannahr posted:This kind of data is difficult to produce even in relatively unapocalyptic times as 2014, according to the article below. If half of deaths aren’t counted (again, during normal times) and if producing estimates of 1/56th of annual deaths took 15 years of interviews, what hope is there for obtaining excess deaths data, as you propose? Should we just not discuss this at all until then, however long it might take? No, of course we should discuss it, and encourage action. There's clearly a dire emergency. I just see people speculating numerically, and making very broad generalizations. Here's two articles that make some cursory attempts. quote:More disturbing still, India’s soaring official covid-19 count represents the tip of an iceberg. Because of low testing rates outside big cities, say epidemiologists, the actual caseload could be anything from ten to 30 times higher. A national serological survey conducted in December found 21% of Indians were carrying covid-19 antibodies, compared with an official tally which suggested that only about 1% of India’s people had been infected by that time. More recently, local journalists who have cross-checked hospital and funeral records against government numbers have found similar, gaping discrepancies across the country. One report revealed that in the second week of April, when authorities in Vadodara, a city in the state of Gujarat, announced seven covid-19 deaths, the count in two hospitals alone was more than 300. This suggests that India could be facing not 2,000 deaths a day, as the current official count shows, but something much higher. quote:Fully one-third of tests are coming back positive in Delhi, and 21% across India as a whole, proportions high enough to convince epidemiologists that more testing would reveal many more cases. Sero-surveys, blood tests which measure how many people have been infected with covid in the past, reveal a huge gap, too. A national one in December, when India was reporting a cumulative total of 10m covid-19 cases, suggested that the real number was closer to 300m. And journalists from across India investigating local records from crematoria, cemeteries and even newspaper obituaries have found many times more covid-19 deaths than appear in official health bulletins. Obviously this data is very incomplete, but they're using the methods I'm extolling. If you can't trust the official figures, try to use other data to fill in the blanks. A journalist that says "the situation in this hospital is dire" paints a picture, but one that goes over the hospital's paperwork and finds differences with government numbers is, to me, more valuable, as this sort of data can be compared and contrasted to other data sets. For an individual journalist its hard to make these data comparisons, but newspapers have that capacity. Indian media doesn't seem terribly interested in doing this, so perhaps foreign media or NGOs can fill the gap. The sort of study you linked to is valuable: the lesson there is that studies like it should be encouraged and expedited, and their results listened to. I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't talk about it until we know everything.
|
# ? May 8, 2021 15:35 |
|
https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1391238136219512833?s=21 https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1391238137804906496?s=21 Holy gently caress.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 10:05 |
|
that would just be hindu dead, right? i understand that muslims have different funeral rites
|
# ? May 9, 2021 12:04 |
|
So Modi is still like 65% in popularity, right?
|
# ? May 9, 2021 12:13 |
|
V. Illych L. posted:that would just be hindu dead, right? i understand that muslims have different funeral rites Yeah, Muslims bury their dead like the other major Abrahamic faiths. 25-50k a day... I can't even really comprehend that number. My brain is doing that old Lovecraft thing where it recoils from the horror.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 12:56 |
|
This editorial from the Lancet is excoriating India's handling of covid: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01052-7/fulltext
|
# ? May 9, 2021 15:00 |
|
https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1391238138572464129?s=20DarkCrawler posted:So Modi is still like 65% in popularity, right? Grouchio fucked around with this message at 15:22 on May 9, 2021 |
# ? May 9, 2021 15:20 |
|
Zeroisanumber posted:Yeah, Muslims bury their dead like the other major Abrahamic faiths. Not just bury em. There's quite an effort to plant em in the ground asap which interferes pretty heavily with casualty counting programs in warzones. Or epidemic zones as the case may be.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 15:25 |
|
Grouchio posted:Not quite that high but his electorate is blaming the central govt and not him for some loving reason.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 15:31 |
|
Cugel the Clever posted:That's how it always is with strongmen. Once people have bought in, nothing bad that happens is ever the strongman's fault. "Big daddy Modi hasn't failed us! In fact he's there only thing keeping the perfidious actors below him from making things even worse!" Between Trump and Bolsonaro both still having like a third of people following them has thoroughly educated me on how awful some kind of people just are. So driven by hate that actually actively causing the pandemic to be worse (instead of just bungling the response) is nothing in their eyes. I suppose (some) Indians can kind of be excused though, given the conditions. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:02 on May 9, 2021 |
# ? May 9, 2021 15:59 |
|
Cugel the Clever posted:That's how it always is with strongmen. Once people have bought in, nothing bad that happens is ever the strongman's fault. "Big daddy Modi hasn't failed us! In fact he's there only thing keeping the perfidious actors below him from making things even worse!" I'm reminded of the Peasant's Revolt in England back in 1381 where the peasant's had the monarchy by the balls and when the revolt's leader Wat Tyler went to negotiate with the king they loving murdered him in cold blood and then King Richard II rode over to the rebel lines and said, "I'll be your captain!" And they all went with it because the king was a good guy and it was only the people under him who were bad. Should've murdered the whole lot of them the second they had the chance but I guess people aren't always able to break out of the world they grew up in.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 16:01 |
|
Isn't Modi's superficial popularity propped up by an iron grip over the media so nobody can ever really talk poo poo about him publicly? It's pretty hard to lose support like that. Even the people who see through the government's obvious lies might not be able to put together the whole picture on their own, or pick up on the fact that Modi and his personal decisions are responsible for why India is doing so much worse.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 16:05 |
|
Zeroisanumber posted:I'm reminded of the Peasant's Revolt in England back in 1381 where the peasant's had the monarchy by the balls and when the revolt's leader Wat Tyler went to negotiate with the king they loving murdered him in cold blood and then King Richard II rode over to the rebel lines and said, "I'll be your captain!" And they all went with it because the king was a good guy and it was only the people under him who were bad. Plenty of "True Communists" in Gulag wrote letters to Stalin begging for clemecy. "They made a mistake. Surely, once I explain. I cooperated! I'm not like them. They are all guilty, not me! Who do you think signed your death warrant, idiots?
|
# ? May 9, 2021 16:37 |
|
madeintaipei posted:Plenty of "True Communists" in Gulag wrote letters to Stalin begging for clemecy. "They made a mistake. Surely, once I explain. I cooperated! I'm not like them. They are all guilty, not me! Reminds me of those “true Americans” tweeting Trump about having their healthcare or jobs taken away when that was what they explicitly voted him in for.
|
# ? May 9, 2021 18:41 |
|
madeintaipei posted:Who do you think signed your death warrant, idiots? but clearly the king was mislead by his evil advisors
|
# ? May 9, 2021 19:11 |
|
Cugel the Clever posted:That's how it always is with strongmen. Once people have bought in, nothing bad that happens is ever the strongman's fault. "Big daddy Modi hasn't failed us! In fact he's there only thing keeping the perfidious actors below him from making things even worse!" It's the King's advisors!
|
# ? May 10, 2021 02:46 |
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Isn't Modi's superficial popularity propped up by an iron grip over the media so nobody can ever really talk poo poo about him publicly? It's pretty hard to lose support like that. Pretty much how it works in Turkey. Even the opposition deals with the world through a lens that the deepstate and then Erdogan have constructed.
|
# ? May 10, 2021 10:12 |
|
So there’s a bunch of poo poo going on in Pakistan. Forces are at work to push Imran Khan out of power. Rumor is he went to Russia and tried to strike a deal with them on energy during this whole Ukraine-Russia war thing going on and certain foreign powers did not like this. Part of his coalition of Govt defected and joined the opposition. There was going to be a vote of no confidence for his Govt due Sunday and pressure for him to resign. The fear is the same corrupt looters are frothing at the mouth to come back to power and rob and pillage the country. The Army which is often the real power behind the throne is officially “I’m neutral” while if you talk to people on the ground is like “They’re pissed Imran isn’t towing their line and getting too big for himself so want him out.” But anyway there’s this thing too… https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiatvnews.com/amp/news/world/pakistan-pm-imran-khan-full-speech-top-quotes-2022-03-31-767002 A sub rumor going around is that Imran is the one who convinced Saudi Arabia to sell oil in Yuan. Selling oil in currency other than the dollar is minimal today and that majority of it is in USD lends the US it’s power and economic might. So if that’s true, then it also may lend to why there’s effort internationally to oust him. Either case comedy in Pakistan. https://fb.watch/c5D3WpcNSa/ Gatts fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 31, 2022 |
# ? Mar 31, 2022 18:15 |
|
Has anyone kept up to date with the Kashmir situation since 2019? I remember it looking pretty bad but news eventually petered out after communications were cut off, but Mondi being in the news a lot now due to the war reminded me of the whole mess. I tried to find some reasonably objective articles but most sources are of course either Indian or Kashmiri. This is from 2020 so still reasonably fresh after the conflict and doesn't really address longer-term outcomes: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/1/1/how-2019-changed-the-kashmir-dispute-forever
|
# ? Oct 5, 2022 10:33 |
|
I haven't seen any GBS threads about India or Pakistan disappearing in a series of nuclear fireballs yet.
|
# ? Oct 5, 2022 16:20 |
|
I was under the impression that most of Modi's plans went on indefinite pause when the pandemic hit. I haven't heard anything about that ID law that he was going to use to mass-deport muslims either.
|
# ? Oct 5, 2022 18:05 |
|
SlothfulCobra posted:I was under the impression that most of Modi's plans went on indefinite pause when the pandemic hit. I haven't heard anything about that ID law that he was going to use to mass-deport muslims either.
|
# ? Oct 6, 2022 04:27 |
|
Well, I haven't heard of any mass deportations or rounding up newly illegal muslims into camps, so it sounds like it's still on pause for now.
|
# ? Oct 6, 2022 04:38 |
|
|
# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:19 |
|
I'm not sure the plan was to do any of that immediately, as opposed to laying the groundwork for it in the future.
|
# ? Oct 6, 2022 08:28 |