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'understand'? e: in response to 'generative AI that can understand what they see and hear'. I would like to select 'Doubt'
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# ? May 18, 2024 21:34 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:18 |
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I think we can take it as given that people in this thread posting about this stuff realize that these models don’t understand anything in the way that humans understand things, but the language used to talk around that is pretty underdeveloped right now and sometimes you need to just use a word. Like, recently a friend showed ChatGPT a screenshot from a Dwarf Fortress playthrough and asked it to describe the contents of the image. It did so with a mix of weirdly specific knowledge about the game in question and the things happening in the image (which is more impressive considering how abstract DF’s graphics are), and vague generalizations of the kind a human might make when extemporizing about a subject they’re not actually familiar with. Obviously it understands nothing, but it’s enormously faster to say “it understood the image” than it would be to describe what it’s actually doing every time an “AI” writes something. Translator programs, same deal: we talk all the time about how well an app can translate language X into language Y by saying things like “it understands French better than it understands Vietnamese,” and that seems reasonable. Now when you’re talking with your parents or randos at work who have no idea how any of this stuff works and think AI is about to form Skynet, more precision in language is probably important.
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# ? May 18, 2024 21:46 |
Multimodal AI looks really impressive but is mostly a feature of what started as a optimisation in LLMs. If you have a large multidimensional input to a AI model, then it's computationally expensive to train for it and harder distinguish between similar large inputs than small ones. So inputs get reduced down to "latent space" by a preprocessing AI model, which shrinks the size and dimensionality of the input while keeping the key information from it (ideally). You then train the model in this latent space, and convert your output back out of it. It turns out that you can use the same "latent space" preprocessors for different types of data, and it is capable of having closely related concepts close to each other. This is how text to image models work, the latent space of the text "a bear wearing a top hat riding a unicycle" is close to actual images of bears, top hats, riding, and unicycles. So you put that latent space representation in the image model, and it spits out a latent space output close to all those concepts in the latent space, which when converted back into a image is probably the picture you were after. You can see from that, that while it seems a very impressive capacity from outside that a model is capable of multimodality, internally it's fairly simple for the AI companies, and doesn't solve any of the actual problems with the indervidual models.
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# ? May 18, 2024 22:02 |
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Kestral posted:(which is more impressive considering how abstract DF’s graphics are) Personally, I would call that less impressive. Discrete symbols, no matter how abstract, are probably far easier for a computer to parse than an actual image. Clarste fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 18, 2024 |
# ? May 18, 2024 22:04 |
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Kwyndig posted:It's already happening, LLMs trained on generated data outputs nonsense. DeviantArt got infested with AI art, which was scraped to make more AI art, in an endless feedback loop. It was pretty funny but also insanely stupid.
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# ? May 18, 2024 22:21 |
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Clarste posted:Personally, I would call that less impressive. Discrete symbols, no matter how abstract, are probably far easier for a computer to parse than an actual image. On the other hand, you’d think they would have so much less training data to work with to learn, for instance, what specific room types look like in DF, as opposed to more realistic games where it can identify “this is a person holding a rifle” or what-have-you from a wealth of training data. I don’t know which one is actually more difficult for them though, it’d be interesting to find out. Edit: oh, I just realized you might be thinking of the old ASCII version of DF. It has a fully-graphical Steam release now, that’s where the screenshot in question came from.
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# ? May 18, 2024 22:22 |
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Schubalts posted:DeviantArt got infested with AI art, which was scraped to make more AI art, in an endless feedback loop. It was pretty funny but also insanely stupid. As someone who relied heavily on DeviantArt for images to use in tabletop RPGs, DA became so much worse after its UI overhaul a few years back, and is now excruciating after being filled up with low-effort keyword-spammed AI posts. The irony of being pushed into greater and greater proficiency with (and reliance on) Stable Diffusion because DeviantArt is now effectively unsearchable is not lost on me.
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# ? May 18, 2024 22:26 |
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HopperUK posted:Is it accurate that the 'scrape the internet' style of training AI will falter as more of the internet is already written by AI, or is that just a hypothetical? Even before AI, "scrape the internet" style stuff takes significant cleaning and filtering. Spambots did exist before ChatGPT, after all, even if it's made them worse. For example, researchers have discovered that GPT-4o's Chinese-language token list is polluted with spambot phrases, and the single longest token is "free Japanese porn video to watch" in Chinese. These tokens may not be in the actual training data for the model itself, but that brings its own set of problems. Any data that's present when training the tokenizer but is then removed before training the actual model has the potential to become a glitchy word in the resulting model, leading to random bugs and jailbreak opportunities. https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/17/1092649/gpt-4o-chinese-token-polluted/ quote:Soon after OpenAI released GPT-4o on Monday, May 13, some Chinese speakers started to notice that something seemed off about this newest version of the chatbot: the tokens it uses to parse text were full of spam and porn phrases.
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# ? May 18, 2024 22:39 |
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shoeberto posted:Some hot ~~insider info~~ but we're generally working on making it less obtrusive and more opt-in. But it's very easy to permanently disable, too. I would say that we're pretty acutely aware of how much people don't want this shoved down their throat, and are trying to balance it against discoverability. Respectfully, (really!) why even pursue this feature? I can’t imagine more than a tiny minority of internet users savvy enough to choose DDG are enthusiastic about more LLM sludge at the top of their search results.
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# ? May 19, 2024 06:55 |
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Because the higher ups are saying this is what they are going to spend their time getting paid to do. The people who know anything about a thing are never invited to participate actively in the meetings where this is decided.
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# ? May 19, 2024 10:25 |
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Five Year Plan posted:Respectfully, (really!) why even pursue this feature? I can’t imagine more than a tiny minority of internet users savvy enough to choose DDG are enthusiastic about more LLM sludge at the top of their search results.
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# ? May 19, 2024 11:00 |
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Five Year Plan posted:Respectfully, (really!) why even pursue this feature? I can’t imagine more than a tiny minority of internet users savvy enough to choose DDG are enthusiastic about more LLM sludge at the top of their search results. Have you considered putting aside your selfish "search for useful information" needs and considered the shareholder value? Didn't think so
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# ? May 19, 2024 11:45 |
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I have a terrible idea and Im sure its already being done: Train your AI with reddit.
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# ? May 19, 2024 12:45 |
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Humphreys posted:I have a terrible idea and Im sure its already being done: Train your AI with reddit. Yes Reddit already has deals with both Google and OpenAI for data access.
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# ? May 19, 2024 13:13 |
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TACD posted:Depressingly, I’m not sure I can think of a single tech company that has outright said they’re opting out of the AI hype, absolutely everybody seems convinced it’s the next big thing despite how absolutely laughable all the attempts to seriously use it have been I work for a company that you probably haven’t heard of because we’re a growing infrastructure security company. We have a unicorn valuation but are only currently in the 10s of millions of ARR. Our leadership team got the usual “put AI in it!” speech from the VCs, dutifully explored and brainstormed, and were thankfully like “yeah this doesn’t make sense.” I think we bought a service that provides AI summaries of our docs which works shockingly well, but I guess is trained on and only has to answer questions about our docs, which are already high quality. So thankfully there are some sane, non hype train folks out there, just in smaller spaces.
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# ? May 19, 2024 17:15 |
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Humphreys posted:I have a terrible idea and Im sure its already being done: Train your AI with reddit. Could be worse. Could be training on 4chan.
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# ? May 19, 2024 17:49 |
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you guys arent having enough foresight, what if we have humans start communicating like those AIs?
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# ? May 19, 2024 18:08 |
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PhazonLink posted:you guys arent having enough foresight, what if we have humans start communicating like those AIs? I mean, we have a shortage of teachers so why not use AI to train our kids?
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# ? May 19, 2024 18:19 |
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PhazonLink posted:you guys arent having enough foresight, what if we have humans start communicating like those AIs? I see you have never graded someone trying to fish for points on an open ended test question by spewing keywords?
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# ? May 19, 2024 18:21 |
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PhazonLink posted:you guys arent having enough foresight, what if we have humans start communicating like those AIs? What a fascinating idea. Perhaps we could delve into this intriguing thought more deeply together. P U $ $ Y I N B I O
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# ? May 19, 2024 18:32 |
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TACD posted:Depressingly, I’m not sure I can think of a single tech company that has outright said they’re opting out of the AI hype, absolutely everybody seems convinced it’s the next big thing despite how absolutely laughable all the attempts to seriously use it have been There are definitely areas where "AI" (neural net based ML) has proven to be pretty useful. Alphafold has actually turned to be helpful for structural biology and driving some drug discovery efforts on hard to crystalize proteins. There are a few good uses of it for prediction of peptide properties in proteomics as well. These have pretty significant limitations but if you understand them then they can be another useful tool in the field. DLSS/FSR/XeSS are legitimately crazy image quality leaps for TAA. I imagine some other fields have other non hype uses where it's another good tool to add.
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# ? May 19, 2024 19:18 |
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It's a gigantic statistical correlation thingy so it's useful where you have a ton of input data you want categorised. Got 20 000 photos of galaxies and want to have them categorised? Curate a subset, train the machine, and let it run. Computer vision has taken a pretty good leap forward in recent years. OCR has gotten much better, and translation between well-developed pairs of language work quite a lot better now as well. So that's cool and actually useful.
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# ? May 19, 2024 20:05 |
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Dirk the Average posted:Could be worse. Could be training on 4chan. We should be glad that Chan sites purge their data periodically instead of archiving them. Can't scrape data that wasn't archived. There are various archives of 4Chan subchannels, but that is mostly done by users and they can be very inconsistently archived.
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# ? May 19, 2024 20:36 |
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Kagrenak posted:There are definitely areas where "AI" (neural net based ML) has proven to be pretty useful. Alphafold has actually turned to be helpful for structural biology and driving some drug discovery efforts on hard to crystalize proteins. There are a few good uses of it for prediction of peptide properties in proteomics as well. These have pretty significant limitations but if you understand them then they can be another useful tool in the field.
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# ? May 19, 2024 20:41 |
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TACD posted:Depressingly, I’m not sure I can think of a single tech company that has outright said they’re opting out of the AI hype, absolutely everybody seems convinced it’s the next big thing despite how absolutely laughable all the attempts to seriously use it have been I'm not completely sure what your bar is for "seriously use" but it's been tremendously useful for (mostly) automating away a lot of the drudgery for me: boilerplate memos, some amount of editing on less boilerplate writing, basic data management. Easily, easily worth the $20/mo subscription.
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# ? May 19, 2024 20:43 |
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edit: double post
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# ? May 19, 2024 21:05 |
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OddObserver posted:I see you have never graded someone trying to fish for points on an open ended test question by spewing keywords?
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# ? May 19, 2024 22:25 |
Goatse James Bond posted:I'm not completely sure what your bar is for "seriously use" but it's been tremendously useful for (mostly) automating away a lot of the drudgery for me: boilerplate memos, some amount of editing on less boilerplate writing, basic data management. Easily, easily worth the $20/mo subscription. Yeah me too but that's because my work has no real purpose or meaning so Ai work is completely fine. Cheers
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# ? May 20, 2024 05:07 |
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Yeah, I think the lesson there is that boilerplate memos are a waste of everyone's time.
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# ? May 20, 2024 05:51 |
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If it can be done by "AI" it can be done not at all
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# ? May 20, 2024 07:31 |
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niethan posted:If it can be done by "AI" it can be done not at all The Butlerian Jihad agrees with you.
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# ? May 20, 2024 08:31 |
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Quote and edit are hard send halp
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# ? May 20, 2024 08:32 |
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good lord man https://x.com/MikeIsaac/status/1792444618715672924 imagine being that voice actor e: i just remembered this tweet lol. i'm sure the lawyers loved that https://x.com/sama/status/1790075827666796666 kliras fucked around with this message at 15:06 on May 20, 2024 |
# ? May 20, 2024 10:21 |
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Wonder how that Canadian radio host who became the TikTok voice is doing.
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# ? May 20, 2024 12:09 |
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TACD posted:Depressingly, I’m not sure I can think of a single tech company that has outright said they’re opting out of the AI hype, absolutely everybody seems convinced it’s the next big thing despite how absolutely laughable all the attempts to seriously use it have been To a degree this seems to be an issue with companies feeling obligated to go with it for appearances' sake, to look like they're keeping up with the times. I've run into the same thing at my workplace as well. Management requests that we find a way to implement "something to do with AI" while telling us outright that yes, they know we don't really have a practical use or need for it in our product. But at this point having anything with to do with AI is a badge that sells well and attracts investors. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 12:53 on May 20, 2024 |
# ? May 20, 2024 12:21 |
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I thought there was another thread to moan about AI sentiments. But if we're sharing anecdotes about AI in work, we had a survey some time ago about using AI in our work, what we would use it for, etc. I don't remember it was fill in the blank, just pick choices. When the CEO went over the results with us at a town hall he was legit surprised that nobody except for 1 respondent ticked the box for "I would like to use AI to write POs/SOWs". He said that he figured most of the managers would want to use AI here to vaguely make life easier or to save time. The #1 use people ticked off was "summarize/take meeting notes." I don't recall if there was an option for "no I don't want to use AI."
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# ? May 20, 2024 12:43 |
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SerthVarnee posted:Because the higher ups are saying this is what they are going to spend their time getting paid to do. I guess just to add a bit of context on this: I don't want to speak for anyone at the leadership level, but I don't think they're all-aboard the hype train. But I do think there is a sense that we could get left in the dust if any of our competitors really nail AI integration, and we chose not to invest in it. On the other hand: Our whole value proposition is based on user trust, and most of the issues with AI risk eroding that. So we're trying to walk a line with every choice that we make with this feature.
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# ? May 20, 2024 15:22 |
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Antigravitas posted:It's a gigantic statistical correlation thingy so it's useful where you have a ton of input data you want categorised. Got 20 000 photos of galaxies and want to have them categorised? Curate a subset, train the machine, and let it run. I miss Galaxy Zoo e: Nevermind, it still lives Star Man fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 20, 2024 |
# ? May 20, 2024 15:34 |
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Kestral posted:As someone who relied heavily on DeviantArt for images to use in tabletop RPGs, DA became so much worse after its UI overhaul a few years back, and is now excruciating after being filled up with low-effort keyword-spammed AI posts. The irony of being pushed into greater and greater proficiency with (and reliance on) Stable Diffusion because DeviantArt is now effectively unsearchable is not lost on me. Meanwhile, furaffinity explicitly bans all AI generated images, including ones that use AI to paint over a hand-drawn image. I have to assume there are groups that resorted to playing dragonborn and tabaxi rather than turn to AI. If the AI bubble bursts, the landscape of the web is going to be very different and likely very, very weird.
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# ? May 20, 2024 18:15 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:18 |
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Meanwhile, furaffinity explicitly bans all AI generated images, including ones that use AI to paint over a hand-drawn image. I have to assume there are groups that resorted to playing dragonborn and tabaxi rather than turn to AI. On the one hand, this makes sense: the furry fandom (is it still called that?) relies on its artists and supports them financially in ways other artists could only dream of. On the other hand it's legit surprising to me, because apparently furry models are among the best, most meticulously-curated and capable ones for Stable Diffusion. There's an incredible depth of technical knowledge in their model-making community, too: the whole "everyone good at their job in tech is a furry" thing seems to hold true there as well. Their purestrain models are mostly useless for me because the needs of my tabletop campaign are heavily stylized non-anthro character portraits, landscapes, and weird architecture, but the genetics of those models have become fully mainstream at this point, living on in otherwise completely innocuous models.
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# ? May 20, 2024 19:57 |