BoaB: This is a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > BoaB: This is a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating.

«‹›18 »

SirSystemError: Jan 3, 2018

Forgot about that instant death trap, or it never came up in what I've watched. I do like the idea of a nightmare of Link's being a dungeon, but this is dampened by having the typical BoaB design - being most of the same stuff that's been seen already kind of dampens the effect. Plus I've played another quest that did the idea much better (and more fairly but that's a given).

# ? Sep 8, 2022 07:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 05:52

BisbyWorl: Jan 12, 2019; Knowledge is pain plus observation.

Actually, now that I think about it, how long does it take for the murder tree to kill you from full HP? Is it at least quick, or are you just stuck staring at Link impaled on a tree for a minute while there's nothing you can do?

# ? Sep 8, 2022 07:48

Black Robe: Sep 12, 2017; Generic Magic User

Has anyone actually ever completed this game, and if so what is wrong with them?

# ? Sep 8, 2022 08:29

DimiPZC: Jul 29, 2020; The very bestest!

BisbyWorl posted:

Actually, now that I think about it, how long does it take for the murder tree to kill you from full HP? Is it at least quick, or are you just stuck staring at Link impaled on a tree for a minute while there's nothing you can do?

I have the blue tunic, which halves the damage I take. The Tree without any tunics does 1 heart put hit, less if you have tunics, and each hit gives you 48 frames of iframes per hit. When I stumbled in here with 15 hearts, it took 30 hits for me to die.

Let's say, hypothetically, you were not dumb and got the red tunic before this dungeon, and you got every heart piece and container up to this point (I'm assuming you'd have the maximum amount of 24 hearts but that could be a bit of an overstatement; I'm at least certain you can have 22 hearts by this point). 24 * 4 (red tunic divides damage received by 4) equals 96 hits you're stuck there for, for 48 frames per hit. Or, in other words, 76.8 seconds, well over a minute.

So no, it's not quick. You do have a speedup button though.

Black Robe posted:

Has anyone actually ever completed this game, and if so what is wrong with them?

Quite a few people have! It's not a kaizo game by any stretch, it's just exceedingly obtuse, but walkthroughs and LPs exist for that reason.

# ? Sep 8, 2022 08:35

SirSystemError: Jan 3, 2018

DimiPZC posted:

I have the blue tunic, which halves the damage I take. The Tree without any tunics does 1 heart put hit, less if you have tunics, and each hit gives you 48 frames of iframes per hit. When I stumbled in here with 15 hearts, it took 30 hits for me to die.

Hm, that must've changed in later versions, or they're not using damage tiles. A big thing I remember from ZC back in the day is that they ignored your rings/tunics. Kind of affected the difficulty of classic-style custom bosses.

# ? Sep 8, 2022 09:41

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

DimiPZC posted:

Technically I guess they aren't spikes, so much as "weird moving root/vine things that hurt you if you step on them"; they're slightly more visible in motion theoretically, but the fog also moves, which, uh.

I'll let you judge if you can make out the spikes.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to make the experience more palatable for ya'll. If you want me to re-record this dungeon with the fog layer turned off or something, I have access to cheats and can do that fairly easily.

Okay yeah I can see the "spikes" now.

BisbyWorl posted:

I'd say keep the fog layer on while going around so we can get that Real BoaB Experience, but turn it off if there's something in particular you want to point out so we don't have to figure out which bit of covered pixels we're supposed to look at.

I agree with this, being disoriented and confused is the Proper BoaB Experience, but if it's critical that we see something you might want to turn off the fog layer.

# ? Sep 8, 2022 09:54

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Everything else I'd say has already been said, so I'd like to point out that the music here sounds like a drunk who'd only heard the Lost Woods music hummed by someone tone-deaf played it on a Casio keyboard. Like it's not even a weird distortion of the normal area music like the Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy music, it's just bad.

# ? Sep 8, 2022 11:40

DimiPZC: Jul 29, 2020; The very bestest!

SirSystemError posted:

Hm, that must've changed in later versions, or they're not using damage tiles. A big thing I remember from ZC back in the day is that they ignored your rings/tunics. Kind of affected the difficulty of classic-style custom bosses.

I looked in the editor and it's just a half heart damage tile, not a full heart. So you're probably right and I just counted really badly when counting hits. Probably only over half a minute at most assuming the damage just pierces your ring (which would make sense)

# ? Sep 8, 2022 12:10

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Having to watch Link slowly bleed out while impaled on a tree branch is some serious "be careful not to cut yourself on that edge" bullshit even beyond all the other dumb edgy poo poo in this game

# ? Sep 8, 2022 12:22

KennyMan666: May 27, 2010; The Saga

MFDelta posted:

The motion is a slight improvement, but it hardly balances out the scale. Probably due to the fact that the scale broke a long time ago.

The suffering is the point.

I like the current title, but

Video Games > Let's Play! > Ballad of a Bloodline: The suffering is the point

And good god this dungeon is just complete nonsense.

# ? Sep 8, 2022 13:59

ElegantFugue: Jun 5, 2012

I very much wonder what MIDI sound font these tracks were intended to be played in. Normally I'd assume they must sound not-bad in whatever specific font the designer used, but... it's BoaB, so, 50/50. Maybe even 20/80.

# ? Sep 8, 2022 14:51

fatsleepycat: Oct 2, 2021

KennyMan666 posted:

Video Games > Let's Play! > Ballad of a Bloodline: The suffering is the point

# ? Sep 8, 2022 15:13

DarkMatt: Nov 3, 2010

You know mazes can be fun if they can be understood, if there's tricks to mapping them out and solving them and it's intuitive to go through. But nothing in BoaB is for a design purpose. A maze designed here is with the intention of "to get players lost," and that's it. This really does look like it's made for one type of person: the person who plays Zelda Classic too much. The true horror might be that there were a group of people who actually, thoroughly, enjoyed BoaB and they can't explain why. (Or they try and they just casually say they like the story and oh dear that opens up a plethora of questions about that person.)

I also went on a tangent on mazes because I look back at the contributions I've done to this ancient game engine and go, "I wonder if anyone liked the assholes mazes I did."

# ? Sep 8, 2022 15:46

DimiPZC: Jul 29, 2020; The very bestest!

The nightmare continues, and my patience is currently bleeding from a tree. Click the image to read the update!

# ? Sep 9, 2022 12:50

Blaze Dragon: Aug 28, 2013; LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

The sheer amount of traps the player can't actually predict and the fake new item...yeah, that sucks.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 13:11

KennyMan666: May 27, 2010; The Saga

DimiPZC posted:

The nightmare continues, and my patience is currently bleeding from a tree. Click the image to read the update!

Holy poo poo that compass thing

There's being player-hostile, and then there's whatever the gently caress Ballad of a Bloodline is.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 13:22

LPFinale: Dec 8, 2019

I'm losing track of the sheer amount of spite coursing through this dungeon's every tile

# ? Sep 9, 2022 15:09

TeeQueue: Oct 9, 2012; The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.

DimiPZC posted:

Let me know if there's anything I can do to make the experience more palatable for ya'll.

The suffering and terrible map design is the point. :colbert:

# ? Sep 9, 2022 15:35

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

So is the compass eating your map some sort of bug that they decided not to fix because it was 'funny' or a deliberate choice?

I realize that if there's a bug you leave in on purpose the categories are kind of blurred there.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 15:56

Qrr: Aug 14, 2015

I know you were busy with the death knight and getting killed in 2 hits and all, but I'm way more interested in the center of this screen. Why is there a lava pit with a small child and a giant snake skeleton in it? Did they realize "nightmare" means more than "incredibly tedious for the player"?

I'm also surprised, given the janky checkpointing, bad design, and active malice, that there hasn't been a checkpoint that completely softlocks you yet.

And having someone yoink the dungeon item from you could have been funny, in a game which deserved any good will whatsoever.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 17:01

BisbyWorl: Jan 12, 2019; Knowledge is pain plus observation.

Qrr posted:

I know you were busy with the death knight and getting killed in 2 hits and all, but I'm way more interested in the center of this screen. Why is there a lava pit with a small child and a giant snake skeleton in it? Did they realize "nightmare" means more than "incredibly tedious for the player"?

I... think that's supposed to be Myra getting menaced by a monster while drowning?

# ? Sep 9, 2022 17:13

DarkMatt: Nov 3, 2010

DimiPZC posted:

Oh.

Picking up this compass permanently takes away the dungeon map for this dungeon. We're stuck with a blank map now. Game design!

Prism posted:

So is the compass eating your map some sort of bug that they decided not to fix because it was 'funny' or a deliberate choice?

I realize that if there's a bug you leave in on purpose the categories are kind of blurred there.

I'm gonna point at this specifically and explain exactly what's going on: dungeons in Zelda Classic are defined in the editor by DMaps, which define a Zelda 1-style level and what it looks like in-game and on the minimap. (so you can do sorcery like multiple dungeons on the same sheet of screens, or map; or a single dungeon with multiple floors, because they're all defined via DMaps to be the same level.) As for this quest's minimap? You can define custom minimaps for each of your DMaps to show an image instead of the normal Zelda 1 square grid: one for when you don't have a compass, and one for when you do.

~~Now, guess what this author forgot to do?~~

Nevermind. This was intentional. :ohno:

Someone's gotta ask why do I keep confirming these things.

LPFinale posted:

I'm losing track of the sheer amount of spite coursing through this dungeon's every tile

~~You can't call it spite if it wasn't done on purpose and I sincerely doubt it was.~~ See above.

DarkMatt fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Sep 9, 2022 17:53

the Orb of Zot: Jun 25, 2013; Apport: the Orb of Zot
The orb shrieks as your magic touches it!
Yoink! You pull the item towards yourself.
You see here the Orb of Zot.

This game sucks so much oh my god

# ? Sep 9, 2022 18:13

DimiPZC: Jul 29, 2020; The very bestest!

DarkMatt posted:

...Today I learned that Nightmare has a pregnant cow you can buy hints from.

Qrr posted:

I know you were busy with the death knight and getting killed in 2 hits and all, but I'm way more interested in the center of this screen. Why is there a lava pit with a small child and a giant snake skeleton in it? Did they realize "nightmare" means more than "incredibly tedious for the player"?

I'm pretty sure that's actually electrified water (as seen in Source of the Flow); so presumably there's just a girl getting electrocuted to death in a pit with a giant bone snake. This dungeon is all edge, and all weird poo poo.

DimiPZC fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Sep 9, 2022 18:30

DarkMatt: Nov 3, 2010

Also,

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > BoaB: This is a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 19:57

megane: Jun 20, 2008

I'd be more on board with the "it's a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating" argument if there were any dungeons in the game that weren't bad and frustrating.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 19:59

Qrr: Aug 14, 2015

DarkMatt posted:

Also,

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > BoaB: This is a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating.

# ? Sep 9, 2022 23:04

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

megane posted:

I'd be more on board with the "it's a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating" argument if there were any dungeons in the game that weren't bad and frustrating.

It's an accurate description of the entire game, though.

# ? Sep 10, 2022 05:20

Alxprit: Feb 7, 2015; <click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

We can't change the title after every update!!

# ? Sep 10, 2022 06:34

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Alxprit posted:

We can't change the title after every update!!

Or can we? :thunk:

# ? Sep 10, 2022 06:55

Black Robe: Sep 12, 2017; Generic Magic User

Alxprit posted:

We can't change the title after every update!!

we near enough did for a long stretch of the game, because they kept producing unintentionally hilarious Engrish to help break up the unbearable gameplay.

# ? Sep 10, 2022 08:00

DarkMatt: Nov 3, 2010

What's exciting is that I look at our new thread title, feel like this won't be topped, and know for a fact that there is a pretty high chance the next update might give us something else. It just keeps on giving.

# ? Sep 10, 2022 20:55

Kinu Nishimura: Apr 24, 2008; SICK LOOT!

I just read from the start of this thread and there are still five more dungeons after this right. That's a true fact about BoaB.

# ? Sep 10, 2022 23:56

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Kinu Nishimura posted:

I just read from the start of this thread and there are still five more dungeons after this right. That's a true fact about BoaB.

DarkMatt posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > BoaB: This is a nightmare, meant to be bad and frustrating.

# ? Sep 11, 2022 00:01

Materant: Jul 22, 2010; see, what you don't understand is he now has

THE MANLIEST MUSTACHE

_{_{_{_{it defies physics}}}}

Abandon all hope (of a good game), ye who enter this accursed realm.

# ? Sep 11, 2022 02:52

MonkeyforaHead: Apr 7, 2006; God, you vindictive bitch, why can't I ever have any "me" time

Qrr posted:

You aren't thinking evil enough.

I can totally see this game having a big empty room with one random blank square you need to burn for mandatory progression.