Hearthstone: i e a t p o o p

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Hearthstone: i e a t p o o p

Jolly Jumbuck: Mar 14, 2006; Cats like optical fibers.

bravesword posted:

People always make this argument and it’s always a bad one

The fact of the matter is that broken decks almost always see a dip in their winrate, but it tends to be because of three reasons that don’t have anything to do with the power level of its cards: a) People get sick of losing to it and switch decks; b) people start heavily teching against it; c) lower-skill players see which way the wind is blowing and start playing it. You saw the same thing with Shopper DH, but Shopper DH didn’t magically become a less overpowered deck just because everyone was playing Glacial Shard x2.

In this case, Reno Warrior had successfully whittled down the format into two classes of decks: Itself, and decks that could successfully go under it. It had effectively strangled all midrange and control decks. That’s not healthy format. A balancing philosophy in which one deck is killed so five more have a chance to succeed is a reasonable one, in my mind.

Now, whether Blizzard actually achieved that is another story entirely. Their track record over the past year has not been good, and they’ve been poor at identifying root causes and real format bottlenecks in favor of addressing whatever Reddit whines about this week. But “Reno Warrior isn’t even the best deck anymore!” is a weak, weak argument.

Thank you for stating nearly my exact thoughts so eloquently.

# ? May 13, 2024 19:43

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 22:10

Szarrukin: Sep 29, 2021

Firebert posted:

They should bump Zarimi dragon requirement up to 12, this is a card that shouldn�t be able to exist

this is reddit level of nerf talk

# ? May 13, 2024 19:53

Firebert: Aug 16, 2004

Szarrukin posted:

this is reddit level of nerf talk

They put time warp on a body without the cumbersome deck building requirements and you want me to pretend it�s healthy for the game?

# ? May 13, 2024 20:05

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

Firebert posted:

They put time warp on a body without the cumbersome deck building requirements and you want me to pretend it�s healthy for the game?

you should reread the card, it has cumbersome deck building requirements

# ? May 13, 2024 20:07

Firebert: Aug 16, 2004

flatluigi posted:

you should reread the card, it has cumbersome deck building requirements

Not really? You just tempo poo poo out onto the board and if anything sticks ever you win lmao

# ? May 13, 2024 20:09

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

cmon, nobody would run any of those dragon cards if they didn't need to meet the requirements for zarimi

# ? May 13, 2024 20:14

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

Can we maybe hit him with a �Can�t be randomly generated� tag, because a Druid playing him alongside a +1/+1 Zilliax right after that 3/4 �fill your board with copies of this� dragon sure is� fun.

# ? May 13, 2024 20:15

Shabadu: Jul 18, 2003; rain dance

I don't have a problem with zarimi high rolls off dragon tales because that deck is kinda cheeks and it's the only reason to even run the card

I get more wins on priest with flooding the board and dropping thirsty drifters into zilliax than I do actually playing zarimi

# ? May 13, 2024 20:21

Excelzior: Jun 24, 2013

it's okay for your opponent to occasionally get a high roll

we don't need to nerf everything until we're back to bumping yetis

# ? May 13, 2024 20:23

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

I feel like �randomly getting to end the game off of a single discovery� goes just a touch beyond calling it a highroll.

Like gently caress, it�s funny that everyone screamed �Paladin having access to wind fury BAD!!!� and now we have �Priest and Druid randomly giving their entire board wind fury GOOD!!!�, I guess?

# ? May 13, 2024 20:26

Scholtz: Aug 24, 2007; Zorchin' some Flemoids

Queueing as Priest should make it so that you only match against other Priests. There, perfectly balanced.

# ? May 13, 2024 20:32

peer: Jan 17, 2004; this is not what I wanted

imo Zarimi is/was frustrating in priest because they can build a giant board out of nothing, on their Zarimi turn, for very little mana, making Zarimi effectively a from-hand otk (albeit one with a pretty steep requirement).

A druid occasionally getting to hit you twice with their boardful of dragon golems you couldn't clear the previous turn is whatever. basically just a bloodlust

# ? May 13, 2024 20:43

avantgardener: Sep 16, 2003

Sandwolf posted:

Brann should double one battle cry a turn.

I'm not sure this would fix it. The main problem with Brann right now is the Boomboss pairing and Brann only working once per turn wouldn't help that. Same as Azerite Ox. Making Brann really expensive feels like a good change to me.

# ? May 13, 2024 20:59

orangelex44: Oct 11, 2012; Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

Priest has one wincon card and it's the loving apocalypse, I don't get it. Is Zarimi any worse than Death Knight's inevitable wincon, or Warrior's inevitable wincon, or Druid's infinite value card, or Warlock's infinite value, or Warlock's inevitable wincon, or Warlock's other inevitable wincon?

# ? May 13, 2024 21:48

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

avantgardener posted:

I'm not sure this would fix it. The main problem with Brann right now is the Boomboss pairing and Brann only working once per turn wouldn't help that. Same as Azerite Ox. Making Brann really expensive feels like a good change to me.

I don't know. It's a good cost for the effect and it fits control warrior's playstyle, but I also feel like relying on a single high-cost card to make the rest of your deck into a win-con is just... not very fun. It turns every game into the game where your Brann is in the bottom five cards of your deck and you sit on most of your stuff for way too long.

I guess I'm saying that they never should have made Deepminer Brann in this form in the first place because you can't make this effect both fun and healthy for the meta, and I kind of wish they remade it so it wouldn't have to be permanently in a weird place where it can't actually feel good to play.

# ? May 13, 2024 22:47

orangelex44: Oct 11, 2012; Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

I still maintain the problem with Warrior isn't Brann (at least long-term). The problem is the Armor mechanic and getting well above 30 life both consistently and easily in the early stages of a game.

# ? May 13, 2024 22:52

Scrub-Niggurath: Nov 27, 2007

I think the change to Brann is to make him a limited use situation, something like "Your next 6 battlecry effects trigger twice" or so. Still strong but you don't have the turn 6 brann and then 15 turns later come the finishers, they have to be more tactical with playing battlecries in the meantime

# ? May 13, 2024 23:12

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

orangelex44 posted:

Priest has one wincon card and it's the loving apocalypse, I don't get it. Is Zarimi any worse than Death Knight's inevitable wincon, or Warrior's inevitable wincon, or Druid's infinite value card, or Warlock's infinite value, or Warlock's inevitable wincon, or Warlock's other inevitable wincon?

Hey man if Paladin can�t have a wincon what makes you think Priest can

# ? May 13, 2024 23:16

bravesword: Apr 13, 2012; Silent Protagonist

orangelex44 posted:

I still maintain the problem with Warrior isn't Brann (at least long-term). The problem is the Armor mechanic and getting well above 30 life both consistently and easily in the early stages of a game.

I mean, Warrior has been able to do this since the beta and it�s never really been a problem. If anything, having a check on burst damage kills has been overall healthy. Nobody wants to live in a universe where Freeze Mage or Nature Shaman have no counters.

Control Warrior has only ever been a problem when its removal is too good or when its value engines are too good. The peaks for classic Control Warrior have been Wallet Warrior back in vanilla, infinite value Warrior with Elysiana and Dr. Boom during Rise of Shadows, Kazakusan Warrior during Sunken City, and Reno Warrior recently. In none of those cases was the issue �can go above 30 life.� It�s always been �can�t stick a board against them� or �can�t run them out of resources.�

# ? May 13, 2024 23:47

peer: Jan 17, 2004; this is not what I wanted

put elysiana in core next year you cowards

# ? May 13, 2024 23:48

Sloppy: Apr 25, 2003; Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

Excelzior posted:

it's okay for your opponent to occasionally get a high roll

we don't need to nerf everything until we're back to bumping yetis

I'd be down with rewinding 5 or 6 years of power creep

RIP the 2014-2018 glory days of Arena.

# ? May 14, 2024 01:44

avantgardener: Sep 16, 2003

Patch is out. Played 2, no highlander warrior yet.

# ? May 14, 2024 19:52

Lumbermouth: Mar 6, 2008; GREG IS BIG NOW

I'm wondering if I should dust my Brann for Zilliax, I have no desire to play feelsbad highlander decks

# ? May 14, 2024 21:15

Szarrukin: Sep 29, 2021

I really wish that devs could one day learn to nerf decks without killing them.

# ? May 14, 2024 21:17

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

I feel like it's maybe too soon to call highlander warrior entirely dead, especially once the meta stops teching directly against it

# ? May 14, 2024 21:23

avantgardener: Sep 16, 2003

RIP highlander warrior, long live highlander druid, highlander shaman...

# ? May 14, 2024 22:13

Shockeh: Feb 24, 2009; Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.

Szarrukin posted:

I really wish that devs could one day learn to nerf decks without killing them.

We keep seeing this sentiment in the thread, but the argument is of the two options, it's actually better.
Let's assume that getting it perfect is an aspirational goal; You're always going to hit it a bit hard, or a bit soft...

- If you nerf it too lightly, nothing actually changes. The meta remains the same, because it's still The Strongest Deck, just a bit slower or a bit more flimsy, but the core archetype remains the same.
- If you nerf it too hard, it vanishes overnight (powered by Reddit Drama�) but other weeds grow in it's place. Yes, you killed that deck, but at least 1 sprouts in it's place, usually more.

Of the two options, going too hard has the better outcome for both creativity, and most importantly when you're a VC funded megacorp, player retention, meaning dollars.

# ? May 14, 2024 22:28

Firebert: Aug 16, 2004

Warrior has a bunch of degenerate mech combos with the new miniset, I think they will be fine

# ? May 14, 2024 23:26

Blasmeister: Jan 15, 2012; 2Time TRP Sack Race Champion

is anyone else having daily quests just... keep spawning?

# ? May 15, 2024 00:02

avantgardener: Sep 16, 2003

I dismissed the noz one, got a new one and the noz one came back.

# ? May 15, 2024 00:05

Chernabog: Apr 16, 2007

Bomb warrior was trash but this OTOH looks promising:

### flood 2
# Class: Shaman
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Pegasus
#
# 2x (1) Murloc Growfin
# 2x (1) Pop-Up Book
# 2x (1) Scarab Keychain
# 2x (1) Shock Hopper
# 2x (1) Thrall's Gift
# 2x (2) Cactus Cutter
# 2x (2) Flametongue Totem
# 2x (2) Jukebox Totem
# 2x (2) Needlerock Totem
# 2x (3) Feral Spirit
# 2x (4) Backstage Bouncer
# 1x (4) Hagatha the Fabled
# 2x (5) Building-Block Golem
# 2x (5) Wave of Nostalgia
# 1x (6) Shudderblock
# 1x (7) Wish Upon a Star
# 1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000
# 1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000
# 1x (3) Pylon Module
# 1x (5) Ticking Module
#
AAECAdOLBQTHpAaopQbUpQaBuAYN+p8EhtQE5eQF8egFs40G7JUGnJ4Gy58GqKcG66kGnLgG0dAG3tQGAAED87MGx6QG9rMGx6QGku8Gx6QGAAA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

# ? May 15, 2024 04:56

MinionOfCthulhu: Oct 28, 2005; I got this title for free due to my proximity to an idiot who wanted to save $5 on an avatar by having someone else spend $9.95 instead.

Well. That warrior deck that shuffles dozens of bombs into your deck doesn�t feel good at all

# ? May 15, 2024 16:59

OMFG FURRY: Jul 10, 2006; [snarky comment]

bombs in your deck, bombs on the field, bombs coming from dr boom in hand.

really, warrior needs more bombs in this meta of drawing through your deck as quickly as possible and no way to remove or interact with cards that didn't start in your deck

# ? May 15, 2024 17:45

orangelex44: Oct 11, 2012; Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

God I loathe this brawl.

# ? May 16, 2024 02:12

Sloppy: Apr 25, 2003; Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

orangelex44 posted:

God I loathe this brawl.

Yeah, saw what it was and was 'nah, 40 dust not worth that headache'

# ? May 16, 2024 02:23

Vanguard Warden: Apr 5, 2009; I am holding a live frag grenade.

I beat it my second attempt, it's a little random but not too bad. Both parties just need to spam draw and heals for sustain while the mage dumps damage spells into the boss and the druid builds towards a double Savage Roar on 6 minions.

# ? May 16, 2024 07:17

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

finally snapped a dozen game long not making the final four streak in BGs. Just absolutely could not get a board to stick in the mid to late game, but then again that's been my issue really since the new season started

# ? May 16, 2024 08:28

Luff: Jul 11, 2006; Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Nightbane buffing another Nightbane gets silly even without dragons in the lobby, it turns out. This is going to get old fast

(Sneed's hero power was used on five minions in the top one, so it wasn't as easy to counter as it looks)

# ? May 16, 2024 12:45

flatluigi: Apr 23, 2008; here come the planes

that's the issue when a new season starts, everyone's MMR is reset so you're playing with killers until the best shoot up the ranks

# ? May 16, 2024 12:45

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 22:10

peer: Jan 17, 2004; this is not what I wanted

Luff posted:

Nightbane buffing another Nightbane gets silly even without dragons in the lobby, it turns out. This is going to get old fast

(Sneed's hero power was used on five minions in the top one, so it wasn't as easy to counter as it looks)

the classic 9315/1 statline

# ? May 16, 2024 12:49

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