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So Revolutions ratings have tanked that badly? I know the show sucks but I thought it was doing great. (By NBC standards)
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Oct 30, 2013 06:09
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So Revolutions ratings have tanked that badly? I know the show sucks but I thought it was doing great. (By NBC standards) It had The Voice as a lead in last year. Same as The Blacklist this year. Incidentally, the show is actually really good now (though I never really thought it was as bad as people said last year). Too bad about the ratings.
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Oct 30, 2013 06:11
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So Revolutions ratings have tanked that badly? I know the show sucks but I thought it was doing great. (By NBC standards) They actually declined sharply during the back end of the last season without The Voice lead-in as Deadpool said, but they swapped it out for GoOn which ended up getting cancelled. I'm pretty sure they renewed Revolution out of the goodwill they got during their very good Fall 2012 numbers. Now though, they keep getting new series low numbers every week. A 1.4 is bad even for NBC on any night but Thursdays. Occupation posted:There's no way Mindy gets renewed, Gorman is a crazy person. I was shocked that it got renewed last season, honestly. Occupation posted:The season three renewal is both the most difficult and the most important and [..] gets an effective two-season renewal[..]. On the other hand, my un/av. SHVPS4DETH fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 09:20
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I don't think the Wonderland cancellation is as sure a thing as you're making it seem. The show draws a ton of (young?) viewers that would, on any other night, translate into huge ratings. If ABC moved it to Tuesday or even Friday, it would be an absolute juggernaut.
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Oct 30, 2013 11:37
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Why isn't it paired with Once Upon a Time anyway?
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Oct 30, 2013 14:04
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Does Nielsen get audited? Aren't they kind of a black box? What happened to free market capitalism? 
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Oct 30, 2013 14:59
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Josh Lyman posted:Does Nielsen get audited? Aren't they kind of a black box? What happened to free market capitalism? I'm not sure what your question is. Like all corporations, their financial reports are independently verified and available to the public. If you're talking about the accuracy of their ratings, you can be drat sure the networks double and triple check every number Nielsen gives them.
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Oct 30, 2013 15:10
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Irish Joe posted:I'm not sure what your question is. Like all corporations, their financial reports are independently verified and available to the public. If you're talking about the accuracy of their ratings, you can be drat sure the networks double and triple check every number Nielsen gives them.
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Oct 30, 2013 15:23
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The X Factor's foray into Tuesday garnered a series low 1.5, barely out-drawing Dads and The Mindy Project last week. No way in hell does Cowell get a fourth season after this.Aphrodite posted:Why isn't it paired with Once Upon a Time anyway? Because NBC doesn't have the market cornered on having no idea how to program against BBT. They could have easily held Wonderland for midseason while the OUAT flagship took a break. Irish Joe posted:I don't think the Wonderland cancellation is as sure a thing as you're making it seem. The show draws a ton of (young?) viewers that would, on any other night, translate into huge ratings. If ABC moved it to Tuesday or even Friday, it would be an absolute juggernaut. 1.4-1.1 will get you cancelled in a hurry on any network that isn't NBC Thursdays or the CW. I'm sure ABC spent a lot of money on the show but unless they get smart and try again at Sundays mid-season, the show is beyond done. It got beat by a Voice rerun and barely won against The Vampire Diaries last week. I know you're a contrarian poster and it's cute but the data's out there. Wonderland should be pulled immediately, if not sooner.
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Oct 30, 2013 17:43
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SHUPS 4 DETH posted:Because NBC doesn't have the market cornered on having no idea how to program against BBT. They could have easily held Wonderland for midseason while the OUAT flagship took a break. That's not even hard. Just put the least funny, most vile racist thing you can on. People eat that stuff up, apparently. Unfortunately CBS also owns that show.
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Oct 30, 2013 17:44
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Josh Lyman posted:Yes, I'm asking about the numbers, but the networks only get the numbers that Nielsen reports. Is there anyone independently verifying that there isn't some systematic bias, to say nothing of actually sketchy business? They're accredited by an independent third party source , sexual aluminum talked about it in the last thread.
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Oct 30, 2013 17:57
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Isn't Wonderland a one off mini or did I fever dream that?
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Oct 30, 2013 18:18
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BIG CITY LAWYER posted:Isn't Wonderland a one off mini or did I fever dream that? It's intended as a sister series to OUAT, not a limited run, though they'll probably spin it as a mini when it inevitably gets cancelled.
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Oct 30, 2013 18:28
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Ah, for some reason I thought it was limited to like ten episodes. Hmm.
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Oct 30, 2013 18:33
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Nielsen Employee checking in. I work in the "watch" side of the buisness, and I know a fair bit about market research and the TV ratings. (Please note, I don’t speak for the company. Please don’t take what I say as an official statement.)Rando posted:I love it when Nielsen sends me 2 crisp $1 bills and I toss the diary in the garbage. Thanks Nielsen! Sadface. We place around 650k diaries a sweeps period, and a home can get anywhere from 1-30 dollars. the posted:I'm a 30 year old male, and I consume about 99% of my television "not live." That is, via Hulu, DVR, Netflix, or ... other means. Am I a really small minority? You make it seem like Neilson doesn't give a poo poo about that kind of stuff, but most people my age that I know seem to consume media mostly without watching it live. As the boomers die off will they ever switch to caring about it? You are still in the minority, but it is growing very quickly. In fact, we are constantly looking for ways to try and track this viewing more accurately. We currently do capture this viewing in other studies aside from the TV ratings itself, and we do make that information available to clients, just not part of the "TV Ratings." However, that is changing soon. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nielsen-begin-measuring-mobile-viewing Occupation posted:Look at it this way: The Neilsens don't measure people watching TV, they measure people watching ADS. They could give two fucks if you're watching Survivor or Revolution, except one has ads that are watched by roughly double the people aged 18-49 as the other. Hence that show's ad time is more valuable. Hence it is higher rated. Hence affiliates can charge more for local ad buys there. Hulu? Online, views aren't as valuable because there's not a full set of ads and not as many people are watching them. DVR? You're skipping the ads. Netflix? No ads. Other means? Well come on, you can figure this out. We do want to know what people are watching on TV, not just during ads. In fact, due to the rise of things like DVRs, and HULU, Netflix, etc, a new type of advertising is becoming more and more popular. Ever notice on Bones, they mention how smooth the ride is on their new lexus? Or that the american idol judges always have their coke bottles pointed directly at the camera? Or how Jack Bauer always had a Nokia phone? Heck, there used to be a trend of having a TV star dancing at the bottom of your screen during a program, to promote their own program. In show advertising is becoming more and more of a thing. Plus, clients also want to know if people are tuning out of the program when such and such an actor or guest star comes on, or are people changing the channel when this subplot starts again... Ads are important, don't get me wrong, but it's not the only thing people are interested in. ...of SCIENCE! posted:My favorite recent Nielsen kerfuffle was when they reported that literally nobody watched an MLB game. The first article reports that for only one market, though admittedly a large one. The second article... well I am a little hesitant to talk about it. The article doesn't say if it's refering to people meter ratings, tuning meter ratings, or diaries. I'll assume it's talking about the general ratings, which include all three. Anecdotally, we place a TON of diaries with old white folks. Sure, we do our best to represent every demo, but lets face it, right now, Old White Folks are a huge demo. And they love their Fox News. It's like voting. Old folks love doing the ratings. Younger folks, Rachel Maddow's audience, not so much. Heck, just look at Rando's post I quoted earlier. Edit: I just saw the other replies to that post. Well said. coffeetable posted:Also, I'm guessing money from stuff like product placement pales in comparison to ad minutes? It depends on the network, the show, and so on. Contrary to popular belief, Nielsen doesn't say "a 5 share means you should charge 20k for a 30 second add spot." We just give the information on viewing to the networks, and they use the data as leverage with advertisers. Josh Lyman posted:Yes, I'm asking about the numbers, but the networks only get the numbers that Nielsen reports. Is there anyone independently verifying that there isn't some systematic bias, to say nothing of actually sketchy business? Yes, we are, in several ways. The most rigorous way would probably be through the MRC. They stand for the media ratings commission, and are made up of our major clients… IE the networks. The US Gov. isn’t really involved. Funny story, the three major networks went to congress years ago, and asked them to regulate us. Congress said screw that, you guys do it, and thus the MRC was born. The MRC uses a company called Ernst and Young to conduct audits on every part of our business, how do we create the sample for diary homes, how do we create our mailing materials, what do we say during the recruitment call, how do we collect the diaries, how do we tabulate the info, how do we present it, and more. If we are found to have quality escapes, we can stand to lose the audit, and if we lose the audit, we get penalties, mostly in that our contract states we have to sell our data at a discount. We also tend to lose business with them for other more segmented research. If anyone has specific questions, and the OP doesn’t mind, I’ll be happy to answer anything Nielsen related.
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Oct 30, 2013 19:22
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BIG CITY LAWYER posted:Isn't Wonderland a one off mini or did I fever dream that? BIG CITY LAWYER posted:Ah, for some reason I thought it was limited to like ten episodes. Hmm. The show runners said the story was designed as a single season that was already planned out. And they said that this summer, so no spin yet unless they really planned for it to bomb. I see on its wikipedia page that it's being simulcast in Canada and Australia, would that have any bearing on whether it would be pulled off the air? I assume that means ABC has some sort of contract with both those networks to deliver them a show.
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Oct 30, 2013 19:27
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SHUPS 4 DETH posted:It got beat by a Voice rerun and barely won against The Vampire Diaries last week. I know you're a contrarian poster and it's cute but the data's out there. Wonderland should be pulled immediately, if not sooner. In all fairness, your "data" is dross pulled off the internet with no respect to what factors networks actually use to determine whether they renew or cancel a show. Ratings speculation is a lot like stock speculation in that a monkey throwing darts at a newspaper has about the same accuracy in his predictions as the so-called experts online. Its true that the show is in a precarious position, but its not as black & white as the frowny faces on ratings.zapit.tv make it seem (which was my original point).
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Oct 30, 2013 19:28
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I know that it came up in the last thread, but can someone re-explain how HBO's philosophy with ratings works? Is it all about DVD sales?
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Oct 30, 2013 21:57
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Thanks for coming back sexual aluminum as always your posts are interesting and well-informed and yeah I give you carte Blanche to talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about here.
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Oct 30, 2013 22:10
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tasukiscool posted:The show runners said the story was designed as a single season that was already planned out. And they said that this summer, so no spin yet unless they really planned for it to bomb. I see on its wikipedia page that it's being simulcast in Canada and Australia, would that have any bearing on whether it would be pulled off the air? I assume that means ABC has some sort of contract with both those networks to deliver them a show. By simulcasting they probably mean simsubbing, and all that means is the show is on at the same time but we get local/regional commercials from the Canadian affiliate station even if we watch it on the American network. I don't know the ins and outs of the TV business with respect to Canadian broadcast rights but I do know from experience that if there isn't Canadian money involved in the show's production, then we will have no bearing on cancellation decisions. Even when there is Canadian money involved, it doesn't affect how the American network handles the show; it just means we're likely to get the full series burned off up here even if the American network doesn't bother.
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Oct 31, 2013 01:53
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Professor Shark posted:I know that it came up in the last thread, but can someone re-explain how HBO's philosophy with ratings works? Is it all about DVD sales? Someone can correct me on this, but in addition to sales, it's also the number of subscriptions that are pushed when the show is on-air as well as how much noise the show creates. It kinda explains why Girls got a 3rd season over that show with the horses.
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Oct 31, 2013 03:07
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Dancing Peasant posted:...that show with the horses. That and all the dead horses.
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Oct 31, 2013 03:35
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This OP is incredible by the way. gently caress the Nielsen Company. There needs to be a small blurb about dvd sales pushing viewership but the OP is already huge.the posted:I'm a 30 year old male, and I consume about 99% of my television "not live." That is, via Hulu, DVR, Netflix, or ... other means. Am I a really small minority? You make it seem like Neilson doesn't give a poo poo about that kind of stuff, but most people my age that I know seem to consume media mostly without watching it live. As the boomers die off will they ever switch to caring about it? Buying up an entire season of a show could end up backfiring bad if some big name showrunner ends up loving it up for everyone else.
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Oct 31, 2013 04:22
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Sexual Aluminum posted:Sadface. We place around 650k diaries a sweeps period, and a home can get anywhere from 1-30 dollars. Well then, how many diaries do you all send out that just get tossed in the trash, and at what monetary cost to the company?
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Oct 31, 2013 04:41
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Rando posted:Well then, how many diaries do you all send out that just get tossed in the trash, and at what monetary cost to the company? It depends on the market. Some places send back 90% of the diaries, but in places like Miami, we are lucky to get 20. If a home was sent a diary, we give them a troubleshooting sort of follow up call. During this call, people occasionally tell us they threw our packet away without looking at it. All those :tenbux: in the trash. Total cost of us sending out diaries? Hmm. I don't actually know, it's a company secret, believe it or not. I can tell you it is much cheaper than using meters in every house. Honestly, the hardest part of the diary process in my opinion is getting the books to the right demographic.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:30
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Wizardryo posted:It's crazy how much broadcast ratings have dipped in a decade. In 2001, Survivor (the highest rated show that year) scored an 18.5/41 demo rating at its non-Superbowl peak. The highest non-football show last year, NCIS, scored a 3.9/10 at its peak. And NCIS is one of the few shows on broadcast television that even hit upper 3.0s anymore. To put it in perspective, Buffy had a 3.9/10 for its season 6 premiere on a niche, fifth-place network whose successor now has a 1.2 as its demo upper limit. I think it's due to the "smaller" channels turning out the majority of seriously good TV (AMC, HBO, etc.) and how everyone is moving online to get access to that stuff, either via iTunes, Amazon or flat out piracy. It's really hard to go back to network procedural of the week after you've seen serious quality like that. Also the TV ratings companies (and TV executives in general) hate this trend and instead of embracing it and using things like Hulu and iTunes sales to indicate people watching, they want to stick to the hardline, non-DVR, live watch numbers. They're dwindling, in particular in certain demos, which has the side effect of TV executives thinking "old people programming" is the best thing ever. At least, that's been my take on what's been going on with TV. There's lot of quality stuff out there, but it's coming from networks willing to push boundaries and also willing to produce shows with less episodes and more quality control per episode. Can you imagine how lovely Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones would be on network TV? Ignoring the violence and such entirely, stretching these shows into 22 episode seasons while not even touching their budget all that much would have ground them to poo poo so, so fast and all the major networks would have demanded it. I mean hell, The Office is still in the OP and look what they did to that? Dancing Peasant posted:Someone can correct me on this, but in addition to sales, it's also the number of subscriptions that are pushed when the show is on-air as well as how much noise the show creates. It kinda explains why Girls got a 3rd season over that show with the horses. HBO is so, so bad at the digital stuff though. Their terms for HBO Go, with the cable provider deals and stuff, are outright baffling. I think their shows are pirated rampantly because a lot of people who would otherwise pay for them simply do not want to buy an HBO cable package to access the content. AMC by contrast at least puts first-run shows up on Amazon and such pretty promptly. Most of the major networks even stream their shows for free now. HBO really needs to get with the times on this side of their marketing, badly. Rule #1 is the public will do what is convenient, and right now, HBO has made it FAR more convenient to pirate than to access content legally, costing them a lot of money. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 18:49
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Blazing Ownager posted:Also the TV ratings companies (and TV executives in general) hate this trend and instead of embracing it and using things like Hulu and iTunes sales to indicate people watching, they want to stick to the hardline, non-DVR, live watch numbers. They're dwindling, in particular in certain demos, which has the side effect of TV executives thinking "old people programming" is the best thing ever. Personally, I feel this mostly the tv networks issue. The thing to remember is Nielsen does track internet viewing, we do track watching on iPads, Hulu, etc. it's just not part of the "TV ratings". If the networks wanted to know this info, we can provide it. It's just since forever the current paradigm has been television SET viewing, and the folks who control the advertising purse strings are hesitant to pay for ratings data that isn't overseen by the MRC, and subject to being audited for quality. Things are changing though. We are testing next sweeps a diary that includes Hulu, iPads, etc as part of the official sweeps. Hopefully it becomes the standard.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:57
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Like I said, absolutely adorable gimmick you've got going. And now back to the sexual aluminum show in progress.
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Nov 1, 2013 09:18
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Apologies for the double post but it's Friday in Autumn so there's news: Trophy Wife and The Goldbergs got back nine orders and Super Fun Night had 4 more eps ordered. Back in the Game received no such orders so it's effectively cancelled. It isn't being pulled from the schedule but once their initial 13 have aired it's over. A bit puzzling since it was getting better ratings than Wife or Goldbergs. The Client List got cancelled but that was over creative differences between the star and the show, and it's on cable anyway.
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Nov 2, 2013 04:41
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SHUPS 4 DETH posted:
Wait what?! Wasn't The Client List Lifetime's version of The Shield? I can't believe they cancelled that poo poo, I thought it was indicative of how they wanted to change their brand.
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Nov 2, 2013 04:49
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Occupation posted:Wait what?! Wasn't The Client List Lifetime's version of The Shield? I can't believe they cancelled that poo poo, I thought it was indicative of how they wanted to change their brand. Last I read, Jennifer Love Hewitt was insisting her real boyfriend be her love interest on the show or something (Father of her kid on the show maybe? I don't recall) but the producers didn't want to do it. Edit: Yeah, Wiki says she wanted the father of her real kid to be the father of her show kid and that's not the story the producers wanted. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 04:54
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Primarily Love-Hewitt is pregnant and wanted her character to be pregnant as well and I surmise the writers couldn't work with it on their handjob drama.
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Nov 2, 2013 09:33
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I was wondering if anyone knew more about ad pricing? Is there a generally accepted rule that X rating/Y share is worth $Z per 30 second? How early is ad time bought? Are ratings weighted over the course of a few months, or is ad pricing really volatile, and a week's drop in ratings can hugely hurt how much a network can charge for the same timeslot the next week?
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Nov 2, 2013 16:29
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Euphoriaphone posted:I was wondering if anyone knew more about ad pricing? Is there a generally accepted rule that X rating/Y share is worth $Z per 30 second? How early is ad time bought? Are ratings weighted over the course of a few months, or is ad pricing really volatile, and a week's drop in ratings can hugely hurt how much a network can charge for the same timeslot the next week? I'm interested in this too, especially for shows with wildly changing* ratings like AoS. I'd assume it's volatile until the show stabilizes at its base level, and it's cheapest at the outset of a new show. It also probably depends on day, like Saturday/Sunday rates would be the lowest outside of sports or other major events. *Wildly changing meaning going from near 5 to mid 3, almost a full point drop.
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Nov 2, 2013 18:49
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SHUPS 4 DETH posted:On the other hand, my un/av. Yeah but that kinda reinforces my point because HE essentially needed a season and a half renewal to make it to 80 iirc. SHUPS 4 DETH posted:Primarily Love-Hewitt is pregnant and wanted her character to be pregnant as well and I surmise the writers couldn't work with it on their handjob drama. This seems like such a dumb and shortsighted move for Lifetime. You don't can your brand creator early, that's a really dumb way to gently caress over your network's evolution. AMC renewed Mad Men, loving over their original scripted series TWD kind of irrevocably in the process and it was still the 100% move. Make your deals, cable channels with marquee prestige original series. Don't be stupid.
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Nov 3, 2013 07:52
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Lifetime's high on Devious Maids. TCL is so two seasons ago.
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Nov 3, 2013 09:31
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Yeah, apparently the shows they replaced it with are getting higher ratings and better coverage.
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Nov 3, 2013 23:22
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Bubble Watch is treating Super Fun Night's short back order as a cancellation. I initially balked at it, but I've thought about it more and looked through some data and I can't find any new series that received a short back order (less than a full season) that got a second season. It seems to just be a way to keep some schedule spackle on hand.
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Nov 3, 2013 23:43
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Look! In the thread! It's not just any shameful Shups doublepost, it's...   THE RENEW/CANCEL INDEX CBS - Mom got a back nine and grew week-to-week so it's up to a likely renewal, where it joins the formerly certain 2 1/2 Men and The Crazy Ones, both of which posted ratings losses. No other changes, and Hostages remains on the air. ABC - My plans to see OUAT in Wonderland in the headline will have to wait a week, as Super Fun Night plummets from Likely Renewal to Certain Cancellation in one fell swoop due to the short back order they received. Back In The Game was cancelled but not pulled from the air, and there were no other moves on the chart this week. NBC - The Michael J Fox Show is now Likely to be Cancelled. It's not getting yanked from the schedule until it all airs but NBC really committed to this show and must be very disappointed. Dracula took a serious tumble from its debut numbers but we don't know if it's hit the basement yet so it remains a likely renewal. MJFS was the only move this week. Fox - Bones is now a Certain Renewal up from Likely last week for some reason. Clickbait? Anyway there isn't much to report from Fox since they were airing mostly baseball last week. CW - No changes, but Gorman points out that the CW has cancelled 2 dramas per season for the last 3 seasons, so it seems unlikely that anything beyond Beauty and the Beast and The Carrie Diaries will be cancelled at this point. As always, it's the CW so I got nothin'. I'll try to post these earlier from here on.
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Nov 6, 2013 03:42
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Bumped so SHUPS doesn't have to triple-post/because this thread deserves more attention anyway.
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Nov 13, 2013 10:18
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