|
Sorry to hijack this, I'll take my generic sailboat questions elsewhere if they're better suited elsewhere -- What do you guys who have some experience consider the maximum size boat to safely and comfortably sail single-hand? Especially for someone who's going to be most likely learning on one. I have no plans to buy one just yet, and I've got a sailing class lined up where I'll be learning on dinghies, but I can't say that if I find myself with a few thousand to throw around in the next two or three years I won't take the plunge. So honestly just opinions right now 
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 05:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 11:10 |
|
|
That's a hard question to answer. I guess you could look at the list of boats that competed in this year's Singlehanded Transpac race: http://singlehandedtranspac.com/entries/ There's everything from a Moore 24 to an Open 50. Just about any sailboat could be set up for singlehanding. Once you get over 40 feet with a sloop, the sails can be a bit too powerful for the average person to handle, unless you have powered winches. You want all of the control lines led aft to the cockpit, accessible from the helm. Having an autopilot or self-steering windvane also helps a lot. If you're wondering what boat would I recommend for a new sailor wanting to singlehand, rather than race across the Pacific, that narrows things down a bit. If you want something a little more substantial than a sailing dinghy, I would look for a classic old keelboat that has a large one-design following, like a Cal 20, Santana 22 or a Ranger 23, something in the low- to mid-20' range. There are tons of them out there, so parts are comparatively cheap and if you get one that's a little rough around the edges for a good deal, you can fix it up and maybe break even when you get three-foot-itis. And if you decide you want to race, you won't have any trouble finding a class to compete in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 05:43
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:Sorry to hijack this, I'll take my generic sailboat questions elsewhere if they're better suited elsewhere -- What do you guys who have some experience consider the maximum size boat to safely and comfortably sail single-hand? Especially for someone who's going to be most likely learning on one. Haven't had time to get caught up on the thread yet (it's the end of the fiscal year, which is our super-busy time of the year at work) but I just wanted to say please, by all means do hijack. I'm pretty much completely new to this myself, so all question posts are ace in my book, I'm learning a lot reading the replies from more knowledgeable people and I think it's great if we just generally talk sailboats.Edit: Big Taint, you are awesome.  And Catalinas rule.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 13:39
|
|
|
Big Taint posted:That's a hard question to answer Yeah, I guess I left that pretty vague and open to interpretation. I don't really know enough to know whether I'll be racing or just going out for daysails or what. Hell, for all I know I'll get out there and hate sailing, though I sincerely doubt it. I'm just one of those people that likes to get the most for his money, so I'm picturing a scenario where I find a 30' for something I consider affordable and then realize it's just not something I can singlehanded easily while learning. It does sound like it's best to stay in the low to mid 20s for a "learning" boat though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 17:10
|
|
|
Smaller boats are arguably better to learn sailing fundamentals on because there's less boat getting between you and the tactile feedback. Most of the 'great' sailors started out racing dinghies as youths, and worked up from there. It's similar to Formula One greats starting out in karts, if you can win races in one (or a Laser, for a sailing equivalent), that skill is transferable to larger, faster vessels. You also need to consider what your goal is as a sailor. Some people are happy racing dinghies their whole lives, and they have a blast doing it. They are very physically demanding, they require you to be very athletic. I'm a much more leisurely sailor, my boat isn't very fast and I'm slower, it's just great to be out there sailing (in my house). Eventually, once I've got all my projects finished (  ) I'm going to sail to Mexico and lands beyond. Or maybe go to Hawaii...I will say that it's always cheaper to sail on other peoples' boats. I know of a few places in SF Bay that have decent lessons and fleets that you can charter by the hour. I don't know where you're located, but look into taking lessons at/joining a sailing club, and sail as many different kinds of boats before committing to buying one of your own. If you're near the Bay, I can recommend either OCSC in Berkeley (aka Cal Sailing Club), and Modern Sailing here in Sausalito, they both have a good reputation. Martytoof posted:I'm picturing a scenario where I find a 30' for something I consider affordable and then realize it's just not something I can singlehanded easily while learning. To address this specifically, the length of the boat has little to do with how easy it will be to singlehand, unless you're getting into something gigantic. It's all about how the deck is laid out. All control lines led aft to the cockpit and accessible from the helm is the big one. Some sort of self-steering in the form of an autopilot or windvane is a close second, mainly to keep the boat heading into the wind while you hoist/douse sails, and perhaps to assist tacking or gybing, since you may have to trim both the mainsheet and the jibsheet, especially during a gybe. Roller furling jibs are also very nice, especially somewhere like the Bay where it can go from mild to wild pretty quickly, not having to go forward to change sails is pretty huge. Something like lazy jacks or a Dutchman system for flaking the main is also very convenient, so you don't have the main draped over the deck when you douse it, and to contain it when you have a reef in, rather than having to tie and untie a bunch of reefing cringles. None of these things are exclusive to one boat or another, and you can add these things to just about any boat, some more easily than others. It's vastly easier to buy a boat that already incorporates (and ideally was purposely designed for) all of these things from the beginning, than it is to try to reverse engineer a solution. That's what I've run into on my boat. I had grand plans for setting it up so I could singlehand it, but the hardware required just to lead the lines aft to the cockpit would easily break the bank, and wouldn't get me that much closer. I decided I'd rather go sailing, it's never hard to find crew. Did I mention the efficacy of the line, "Would you like to see my boat?" 
Big Taint fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 18:07
|
|
|
I'd like to shove "Cross the Atlantic" on my bucket list but I don't know how realistic that will end up being. For now my goal is to get laid by using "Would you like to see my boat?" liberally. I generally have a ten year plan and by the time I'm 43 I'd like to own a boat and spend some time exploring the great lakes. Racing looks like a lot of fun but to be 100% honest I'm not all hot and bothered to try it. If it's something my boat can do down the road then I'd be happy to try it out, but I don't think that's my goal. To that end, I think something modest would be best. I'd like a little bit of creature comforts so I can do a weekend trip or a week-long trip up the Welland Canal or something without feeling like I'm sleeping in a coffin and eating wrapped sandwiches 24/7, but I'm not looking for anything grand. That's sort of why I think something like a 22 or 26 would be perfect for me, obviously pending a nice layout. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 19:01
|
|
|
There are many good boats in that size range, including the OP's Hunter. Take lessons, sail on OPB as much as you can, and keep your eyes open. A killer deal will pop up eventually, people are literally giving boats away all the time, especially small old sailboats that aren't cosmetically perfect. There's even a dedicated Yahoo group for free boats. If you're curious for reviews about specific models, Good Old Boat magazine is an awesome resource.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 17:26
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:I'd like to shove "Cross the Atlantic" on my bucket list but I don't know how realistic that will end up being. For now my goal is to get laid by using "Would you like to see my boat?" liberally. This is a good book if you can find a copy of it. Sailing round the world over two years, it kept me reading and it's one of those books I still sometimes find myself thinking about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 11:33
|
|
|
Progress!! The companionway ladder was the original one that came with the boat... the marine plywood had delaminated and softened badly, and the bottom step finally just dissolved in a soggy mess one day when I stepped on it (pitching me rear end over teakettle onto the cabin floor, ow.) So after pricing teakwood and getting sticker shock -- $300 for an eight-foot board,  --- I ended up going with ipe wood instead. On right are the old rotted steps (using them as a pattern) and on the left a couple of the new pieces. Luckily the hardware is all still good, as it is a very specific fitting that slots into metal holders on the galley sink/stove to hold the ladder in place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2012 18:39
|
|
|
That's awesome. I was always super surprised at how expensive teak was  e: off topic: Picked up Sailing: A Beginner's Guide by David Seidman. Awesome little book for sailing babbys! some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 7, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2012 18:46
|
|
|
It's ghastly, but I think I may have lined up a source to get some for (relatively) cheap.  I found a guy locally on craigslist who's wrecking a wooden sailboat for salvage, and he has a load of teak deck boards that he's willing to part with for a good price. Going to go check that out this afternoon.And yeah, that Seidman book is one of the first ones I got, it's awesome. Highly recommended for us newbs. Speaking of which, I also think I've found a competent sailing instructor to come give me about three hours of training on sailing my boat. I had to do some shopping around because there are a surprising number of bullshit artists out there claiming to be able to teach people to sail, but after tracking down some personal recommendations I've found a guy who seems to know what he's talking about. I knew he was for real when one of the first things he asked me is if I had any Seidman books, and if I'd read them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2012 19:30
|
|
|
I also read Sailing for Dummies before this. As much as it pains me to admit this, that was actually a pretty good book for someone who came into this with no idea about most of the concepts. It was pretty thorough and seems to cover just about everything that Seidman does, though glosses over some of the more specific concepts like hull shapes, etc. I would probably not hesitate to give it to someone who I wanted to give a quick "101" intro to sailing. Though Seidman's is obviously better
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2012 19:32
|
|
|
I'm sure someone already mentioned Chapman's piloting, but I can highly recommend Dutton's navigation also. It is an excellent resource to teach yourself the use of charts and navigation methods. http://www.amazon.com/Duttons-Nautical-Navigation-Thomas-Cutler/dp/155750248X
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2012 19:19
|
|
|
bonestructure posted:Progress!! Woodworkers troll the craiglist building materials and other site sections for rare wood that pops up during demolition. There was a church or something that had a room full of really crazy 8/4 teak boards from something or another and it went for a crazy low price. I am not a sailor (just like to see the refab process) but I did get to go out on a boat in Sausalito via Modern Sailing and a guy who teaches there who is a family friend (and lives on boats, and is the coolest guy ever). The place is very cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2012 01:04
|
|
|
I've bookmarked this interesting thread. I'd love to get a boat within the next 10 years or so, ideally to live on year-round but I think I live a bit far north for that. For now I guess I'll be sailing vicariously through you and your posts, so post long and post often
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2012 04:19
|
|
|
All done. New steps on left, old steps on right. I'm taking the boat out tomorrow for a nice long gunkholing expedition up Clouter and Yellow House creeks. <3
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2012 22:35
|
|
|
An excellent looking yacht and perfect size to begin with. I'll pass on a few lessons I learned this summer. My Great Uncle (82 Years old) decided to buy a sailboat and learn to sail. So he picked up a 1969 Irwin 27' Sloop with an Atomic 4 inboard. The boat hadn't been sailed in 10 years. As he is, well, a senior, the longevity of some repairs wasn't the primary concern. I may not have agreed with some directions he took, but it's not my boat.  First lesson we learned is any old boat documentation available on the internet looks like it was faxed 34 times, left in a urinal, and finally scanned with an Okidata 1994 ProScanner. So we were pretty much on our own figuring out the rigging, wiring, plumbing and engine. I have some experience sailing and am fairly mechanically competent. (Yay, that engineering degree paid off) The hull needed new bottom paint and fresh topside paint. The bottom paint was like tar, we tried to sand some but instead painted over it with copper bottom paint. That went pretty chill. The old topside paint was sanded with 150, 220, and finally 320 grit. We found quite a few small bubbles (osmotic bubbles) when painting but they are common for yachts this age. We sanded them out and painted over it. The paint looks good, but it would have looked like glass if we'd have sanded it with 500 grit after painting and done one more coat. The engine was seized up, but luckily we were able to free it up with some oil and liberal grunt work. I have a feeling the piston rings are probably shot now. In hindsight I'd poo poo-can the inboard and find an outboard. It is a horrible pain in the rear end to do anything to it. You should replace every single spark plug, wire, pump impeller, distributor and coil in sight. Every single one went bad on us within a week in the water. We were in freshwater too which isn't nearly as hard on a boat as salt is. I rewired a portion of the DC system. Marine wiring systems should use top notch connectors and wires but instead every jackass (manufacturer included) sticks wire nuts and residential wiring in them. This was a loving nightmare. The work I did do was with Ancor wire and terminals. http://www.marinco.com/brand/ancor All of the legacy electronics were totally hosed. I used my Iphone for mapping while on the water. (Navionics app) The rigging was aged and should have been replaced 100%. Instead it went up as is. The mast was put up using a foredeck gin pole. I'd recommend paying someone to do it at the marina or hiring a crane. It took five of us with the gin-pole and it wasn't much fun. Coming down was lovely and the wind grabbed the mast and placed it not so gently on the ground. All of the pulleys on the mast were phenolic and the halyards were steel cord. There is some really great synthetic low stretch cordage available to replace that stuff for fairly cheap, I'd look into it. The steel wire sucks. The little frays are called fish hooks, and for good reason.  Once it was in the water it went fairly well. We sailed it a few times and he really enjoyed himself. The Harken traveler exploded under load, which was rather embarrassing since it happened in front of a regatta starting line. Harken has an exceptional website so we had a rebuild kit in no time. Without the rigging diagrams and information they had my task would have sucked. We were lucky that the sails were well maintained. In hindsight I'd have pushed to have more things replaced but he probably gave two shits. I don't know if the boat will go in the water next year. I hope it does, but the maintenance he pushed back last year will only get worse next year. Any repair work you do I'd do it 100%. We found that anything that was bad, was usually more hosed up than we thought. Leaky window? Nope, shot fiberglass, cracked window frame, bad coring, replace it all. Any repair you do your life may depend on the quality of it. Same with ropes, if you don't know the pedigree just spend the $500 to re-rig every rope on the boat. More boat reading recommendations : The Long Way by Bernard Moitessier. 1.5 times around the globe alone, and stark raving mad for the last half time around.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 15:44
|
|
|
It's nice when you get the boat to the point where you can sail for a couple hours and nothing breaks. I spent yesterday installing a new faucet in the head. I also recently installed a new one for the galley.  The toilet also died recently, along with the y-valve to switch between discharging into the holding tank or directly overboard.  I also replaced the discharge hose from the toilet-->y-valve-->holding tank, they start to permeate after a while and the stink never goes away. I had a hell of a time getting the hose onto the tank fitting, until I remembered my badass heat gun. 30 seconds gently warming the end of the hose got it to slip on, no problem. I hate working in the head. Another project I'm in the middle of is replacing the old ugly wire lifelines with synthetic lines, it's my first time splicing so it's not going very fast but so far it looks great.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2012 16:27
|
|
|
Those wire lifelines get fishhooks too.  The new companionway ladder is finally all done. New ladder on left, old one on right. As well, sanded down and revarnished the two "cutting board" pieces that cover the sink and stove of the galley, which is also the companionway's first step. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2012 22:35
|
|
|
This is a really cool thread.  This is my father in laws boat. A 2004 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 he bought new. It's his 5th boat, all those before hand being second hand. So as you can imagine it's pretty much his pride and joy. It spent pretty much all of last season out of the water because my wife's uncle grounded it knocking the keel about 5 degrees back and delaminating the hull. It's a testament to what plastic boats can take that it didn't just take the keel off completely. I haven't got much sailing in this year either because the in-laws retired and took it off for 10 weeks around the Gulf of Bothnia but I will be racing it next year in at least one large regatta. My tip, since everybody has covered the basics, is get a book on sail trimming. Learning how to trim your sails is the difference between moving comfortably at speed and moving at speed and hanging on. Sailing is easy, trimming is an art. I can't recommend one because mine is in Norwegian. It's not just for experienced racers to gain seconds over the finishing line though, it will make your sailing more comfortable and make you more confident and therefore the whole experience more fun. Also based on personal experience. Practice emergency drills. [edit]I would also highly recommend a first boat having a tiller. My in laws boat above would not be good to learn in because it has a wheel and handles poorly at low speeds. Tillers give much better feedback and are easier to understand. I started sailing when I was 10 in a Topper. I stopped for about 10 years but I never forgot, it's not quite like riding a bike but it's not far off. Laser Cow fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Oct 23, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 12:25
|
|
|
I work on boats for a living too. I do a LOT of wiring work, and some other asst/ stuff. For electronics: https://www.genuinedealz.com Seriously. Amazingly low prices, free shipping, and their "put ends on cables" service is insanely cheap. $1 for them to strip, crimp, and heatshrink terminals. This isn't necessary for small wiring (10-18 gauge), but it sure is awesome for battery terminals. I recently rewired out battery bank on our 26' aluminum research boat, and used all their wiring.   I bought the terminals, boots, and heatshrink. They did all the work, and sent me the extra heatshrink back.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 18:17
|
|
|
You're making me feel lazy for not working on my hobie. It DOES need glasswork though and I have no idea how to mess with fiberglass, so I have sort of an excuse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 20:21
|
|
|
invision posted:You're making me feel lazy for not working on my hobie. It DOES need glasswork though and I have no idea how to mess with fiberglass, so I have sort of an excuse. It is dead dirt simple. Look up some guides online. It's just a ton of sanding and a little paint with some application of soaked fiberglass sheets inbetween.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 22:33
|
|
|
sharkytm posted:I recently rewired out battery bank on our 26' aluminum research boat, and used all their wiring. As an Electrical Engineer who is forced to work on friends and family boats I can say your work is that of beauty. If only everyone kicked out a few extra bucks for the good stuff I wouldn't be forced to rewire crunchy-smokey bullshit. Exceptional work.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 01:58
|
|
|
sharkytm posted:I work on boats for a living too. I do a LOT of wiring work, and some other asst/ stuff. Thank you so much for that link, I needed new cables for my deep-cycle batteries and genuinedealz filled the bill. Sandy passed us by with nothing but some wind and rough seas before spanking the upper east coast. No damage to the boat, just a popped fender from grinding against the dock. (And there was a big dead mullet lying on the gunwale, wtf.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2012 18:07
|
|
|
I was worried  I saw a clip on the news of a body much like yours being pounded against a seawall and it was heartbreaking.  EDIT: BOAT much like yours (Yay Android Swype  )
Beach Bum fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Nov 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2012 13:26
|
|
|
Beach Bum posted:I was worried Haha, I saw it before the edit and figured it was an autocorrect error. Or you actually saw a middle-aged lady getting bashed into a seawall, one of the two. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2012 16:43
|
|
|
 My neighbor (big Bayliner) was out the other day so I got a rare port-side shot of the boat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2012 18:21
|
|
|
I placed an add on Craigslist looking for a project boat as immediately got six replies for free boats. Before Anyone buys one they should try this route.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2012 15:49
|
|
|
Whereabouts are you located?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2012 18:47
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:Whereabouts are you located? Dallas Texas if you are asking me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2012 20:17
|
|
|
Ropes4u posted:I placed an add on Craigslist looking for a project boat as immediately got six replies for free boats. Before Anyone buys one they should try this route. What kind of boats are you being offered? Power or sail? Don Casey has a really good chapter on the pros and cons of free boats in This Old Boat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2012 23:58
|
|
|
bonestructure posted:What kind of boats are you being offered? Power or sail? Don Casey has a really good chapter on the pros and cons of free boats in This Old Boat. Sail boats, I picked up an oday day sailer. I was offering the advice to others so they could get their free boat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2012 01:23
|
|
|
Nice! Odays are good boats. Sailboats are like horses; it's not the initial investment that kills you, it's the maintenance and upkeep. Though if you have a daysailer and are going to trailer it instead of keep it in the water, that shouldn't be too bad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2012 16:45
|
|
|
sharkytm posted:I work on boats for a living too. I do a LOT of wiring work, and some other asst/ stuff. Tell me about your job, it's something that I would like to get into, maybe just something on the side. I am currently an auto tech, specialize in electrical, and I have 2 sail boats. So, who live's in a nice enough place that lets you sail year round? (Not me.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2013 08:13
|
|
|
I live in Sausalito, where nobody knows what winterization is. In the summer we enjoy daily 20 knot winds in the afternoon, and that largely goes away in the winter. You can still find some decent wind but it's a lot less consistent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
bonestructure posted:Thank you so much for that link, I needed new cables for my deep-cycle batteries and genuinedealz filled the bill. Yooper posted:As an Electrical Engineer who is forced to work on friends and family boats I can say your work is that of beauty. If only everyone kicked out a few extra bucks for the good stuff I wouldn't be forced to rewire crunchy-smokey bullshit. SiB posted:Tell me about your job, it's something that I would like to get into, maybe just something on the side. I am currently an auto tech, specialize in electrical, and I have 2 sail boats. Its tough to get into oceanography "on the side". Its a life-consuming occupation. I spend between 150 (this year) and 250 (2011) nights away from home a year. If you want more details, drop me a line at my username at gmail. I love my job, and there's no way I could do it if I didn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 01:47
|
|
|
SiB posted:So, who live's in a nice enough place that lets you sail year round? (Not me.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 20:06
|
|
|
I live in Pensacola, although I don't have a boat yet, in a few years I hope to have the nerve to buy one. My dream is just to sail around the bay, year round. Do you ever venture out into the gulf?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2013 01:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 11:10 |
|
|
Not on my boat, but I have once in a friend's. It's like 20 miles for me to get down to the gulf from my slip, so it's not something I contemplate much. I'm more of a 3 beer sailor. Pick up a six pack, sail out of the harbor until I've finished 3 beers, then sail back. I would like to make a weekend trip to Pensacola, then maybe leave the boat there for a couple weeks to sail around on the weekends, but it's not on the books yet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2013 22:22
|
|